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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
 
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Are you spying on me rescue, without a life? I have been riding the PATH system since the early 1960s when the fee was a whooping thirty cents. It remain that way due to Morris Pesin who attended meetings reminding the Port Authority officials about their agreement to keep the trains affordable while they make their money on the bridges. Morris told me if they raise it above 30 cents the Port Authority will not stop he was right.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 22:24
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Quote:
So you commute to NYC from one of these stations every day during rush hour? Funny, because I have taken the train during rush hour every day for many many years and not once have I seen you. Also, aside from when there are delays, it is not common to not be able to fit on a train. Yes, this happens on occasion, but if you need breathing room you should not be taking a commuter train into Manhattan during rush hour, regardless of what rail system you are on.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 21:53
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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We all know you're a car-person not a train-person. You're angling for one of those Lautenberg-style EZ passes from the Port Authority. Right? http://www.wnyc.org/story/284173-port ... river-284-times-for-free/
Posted on: 2014/8/6 21:51
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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It is difficult to get on the train during rush hour at Grove and Pavonia. The train is already packed from Journal Square riders who make up Bayonne, Greenville, Harrison and Newark. It is the reason I said a Marion station would go directly to Grove bypassing Journal Square. Personally, I like a little breathing room on the train.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 21:35
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Yeah, but how would it come pouring out at Grove Street? It's above sea level. What's to stop it from flowing up Newark Avenue and flooding Journal Square?
Posted on: 2014/8/6 21:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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This plan is completely wrong. Here are some things to consider: 1. People take the train from JSQ to Grove Street. 2. People take the train from Grove Street to Pavonia, especially those that have to transfer there to go to Hoboken or possibly to the light rail system. 3. Making people wait while a train skips their station means that the platform is going to fill up even more during the next waiting interval, making the train more crowded anyway. 4. The infrastructure for platform extensions already exists. It is the space in the tunnels next to the platforms. It's a shame you can't remember where you read that it was impossible because I don't think that documentation exists, or you're remembering it incorrectly. Please pick one topic to specialize in and work on that. There is a reason that the transportation professionals are only talking about signal upgrades and platform lengthening and not scenarios that overcomplicate a system without doing anything to alleviate the problem. There is no reason we can't have both a new station at Marion and a platform lengthening project.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 21:03
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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It is cheaper to add a platform to the already existing tracks at Marion then divert those trains to Grove instead of Journal Square. During rush hours Grove Street and Pavonia stations are pitiful. Digging tunnels will be multi millions at the Grove station.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 17:30
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/19 1:18 Last Login : 2020/9/25 20:40 From somewhere else
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Registered Users
Posts:
1609
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The Grove Street platform itself really isn't the issue - they will just knock down the walls on either side of the walkway extending to the east entrance (NW corner of Columbus and Marin - the round, Jetsons building.) That will leave enough platform to accommodate the ten-car trains. The problem is solving the ADA-accessibility issue. Requires a new entrance in a spot that will accommodate an elevator. Apparently there are serious limitations with siting the elevator in the current configuration (which is why it was never done in the first place.)
Posted on: 2014/8/6 17:22
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Uh, sure Einstein. If there was a big hole in the tunnel the pressure of the water above would turn the tunnels into virtual water mains.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 17:21
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Just can't stay away
 
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Oh well in that case.  
Posted on: 2014/8/6 17:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Didn't do so great in physics, did you? The tunnels already leak anyway.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 16:50
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Very interesting.
What would happen if the path tunnel sprung a leak? What would stop the water from the Hudson flooding the path and pouring out at Grove st. It would be a disaster.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 16:38
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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The PATH tunnels were built before the Amtrak tunnels. How long do you think they have left?
Posted on: 2014/8/6 16:00
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Harrison and Grove Street are the only two stations that need longer platforms to add two cars to the NWK-WTC line. Harrison's platform extension is under construction. Grove Street's renovation will be next, and is already in the long term capital plan. Its part of the 2019 - 2023 portion of the plan and will increase train length from 8 to 10 cars, representing a 25% increase in capacity on that line. Here is the capital plan through 2023. http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-infor ... 4-public-capital-plan.pdf
The PATH lines from Hoboken were expected to have a lower demand by 2017 or 2018 when the ARC tunnel opened and half the trains that terminate there were rerouted through the new tunnels. Now that the ARC tunnel has been cancelled, the NJTransit trains will continue to terminate at Hoboken, meaning any hope of running additional trains from JSQ is not going to happen on the 33rd Street line. But it could get worse. The existing tunnels used by NJTransit and owned by Amtrak have less than 20 years of life left, and it takes at least 9 years to build a replacement tunnel, so pretty soon those trains that end up in Penn Station will probably have passengers getting on in Newark or Hoboken too. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014 ... 0_years_to_live_tops.html But yeah, definitely should piss away money adding another station 100 yards from Journal Square!
Posted on: 2014/8/6 15:36
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The PA cease and desist letters to Fishs Eddy were comedic gold.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Just can't stay away
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Honestly the Port Authority is too busy sending out cease and desist letters to plate and coffee cup printers to give a shit what people in JC think.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Agreed. Also, I don't think people realize that this extension will make the PATH trains more crowded. We already have to deal with lots of people (with many more set to arrive when the new construction is completed). Imagine how crowded it will get when people start bringing their oversized luggage and carry-ons. This is what we are spending billions for?
Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:02
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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ANY expansion of the PATH system is good. It's overcrowded and reaching capacity. More cars, longer platforms, more stations, ALL of these are good things and we should be glad to have any of them!
Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:56
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Just can't stay away
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I think theres enough current room in the tunnels for this.
 Thats probably an extra 300 - 500 passengers we can get to work daily.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Well, there are trains that do run directly to Newark, we just don't have them here. NYC, has them, lots of other places in NJ have them, we happen to have to connect to get there. Given all of the other transportation needs in the area, the idea of a direct ride on the PATH to Newark falls way, way down on the list of things I'd like to see happen.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
Joined:
2007/8/1 19:34 Last Login : 2022/4/27 19:59 From journal square
Group:
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Posts:
269
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How do you figure extending the PATH directly to Newark airport is unnecessary compared to having to transfer to a train for one stop, then the monorail? Most major cities have their metros run directly to their major airports and only here is it a chore to make that connection. JFK is the best option with the A train to the Air Train, but having the PATH to Newark will increase mass transit ridership and reduce having the burden of driving or transferring. But I agree, another PATH route would be ideal. We wont see it in our lives though.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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That's why the project is a long way off. It will involve the extension of platforms and stations in order to be able to fit the longer trains. Quote:
The separation of trains will be shortened, not enlarged, once the signal upgrade project is completed and deployed into production. That project is way behind schedule (as it is the case with all PA projects!) I believe that the signal upgrade project is slated for completion in the next two or three years. Station platforms modifications are at least 5 years out, and quite possibly farther out. Quote:
That's only your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I think that bumping capacity to by over 40% is a step in the right direction. Population in JC will likely not increase more than 10% over the next decade. If they can increase capacity on PATH by 40%, that should yield some great results. As for your idea of adding more tunnels, and lines: GOOD LUCK. At this point, I would argue that is next to impossible. The MTA is already approaching 7 years of construction to extend the 7 line by a mere 1.3 miles! And only a single new station is being added! How long do you think it would take to deploy new tunnels (under the Hudson no less) to connect JC, or other coastal city in NJ, to Manhattan? New stations?? Good luck getting Manhattan land and real estate appropriated for such a project. The realities of today are such that this sort of project is next to impossible. You would have to get the governments of NYS, NYC, NJ and JC to collaborate on what would surely involve extensive use of imminent domain, expensive land appropriation, construction, etc. Not going to happen in our lifetime.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 5:45
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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lol at thesuggestion that extending path to newark is completely unnnecessary. yes, it is not necessary just like i imagine someone a hundred years saying that path or the holland tunnel or bridges weren't necessary when you have barges across the river.
i think jc needs to improve its infrastructure. i also think they should add more light rail stops in jersey city (pacific) and something near the cast iron lofts as wll as extending the system further north and south
Posted on: 2014/8/6 4:48
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quite a regular
 
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The trains barely fit into most stations as is. I doubt the infrastructure above the 6th Avenue in Manhattan, Grove Street, Exchange Place and Newport could support adding 3 cars.
Also there is a concept called buffering between trains and the adjustment of train speed into and out of stations that would reduce the number of trains. Adding cars if feasible is only a short sighted band aid as compared to creating a long term option such as a new route that is independent to the current infrastructure. Either option is going to take many years and dollars. Might as well figure out an option that provides access to a greater portion of the population now and in the future.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 4:39
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Huh? The stated plan is to add three cars to each train. Heck, even one car would be a substantial improvement. One additional car represents a 14% increase in capacity for each train trip. Three added cars would represent almost a 43% increase in capacity. How's can you say that a 43% increase in capacity, or even just 14%, is barely going to make a difference?
Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:58
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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The extension to Newark airport will cost billions and is completely unnecessary. While building a new line sounds crazy, I'd rather see money spent towards that than this extension.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quite a regular
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Adding a car to each train is barely going to make a difference on such an overcrowded system.
The question is how do you add more capacity? They've figured out how to stuff a few extra trains into rush hour but with tracks that intersect and safety requirements, I doubt there is much more they can do other than create peak and offpeak pricing during rush hours. The only other way would be to build a new line and additional 2 tunnels. Obviously this would cost billions but a way to keep costs lower is to extend a route from JSQ around the backside of Hoboken (above ground using what appears to be abandoned rail right of way and widen the light rail corridor and route a tunnel) to connect to the 7 line extension with a connector that runs to Secaucus that has been suggested. This would make a lot more sense than adding track from the current terminus in Newark to the Airport...
Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:31
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Please do not click on the link, I prefer you remain uninform and my youtube account is not monetized.
Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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Since I'm not going to give the crazy lady page views on her probably monetized youtube account, someone want to provide the cliff notes version?
Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:01
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Home away from home
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(I remember Healy talked about a Marion PATH station)
Proposal to ease traffic for the Marion section Monday, May 15, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN JOURNAL STAFF WRITER It's been 33 years since the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey built a new station for its Trans-Hudson rail system - a fact that is not derailing Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy in his quest for a PATH station in the Marion section of the city. "We want to encourage people to use mass transit rather than all these motor vehicles that are clogging the daylights out of the county, the city and the state," Healy said. With some 1,000 units of housing slated for the largely residential area, city officials are pushing into high gear to convince the Port Authority to add an above-ground station at the corner of Broadway and West Side Avenue, an idea that the agency is decidedly cool to. Full JJ piece.. http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubes/new-jc-station.html The above link is from this older interesting site about the Hudson Tubes? http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubes/gatewaytubepage.html .
Posted on: 2014/8/5 23:44
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