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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Our public officials should be speaking on this. The former County Executive, Bobby J was on the Port Authority Board. Who is on the Port Authority board from Hudson County now?

None
http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-infor ... /board-commissioners.html

Posted on: 2014/8/13 11:17
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Adding stops to other places are fine, but Marion has the tracks that the PATH uses. It doesn't take a mountain a money to add the platform. It would service: Mana, Canco, Brunswick Towers and bunches of smaller condo in that area. Our public officials should be speaking on this. The former County Executive, Bobby J was on the Port Authority Board. Who is on the Port Authority board from Hudson County now?

Posted on: 2014/8/12 22:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Its probably worth noting that any additional stations are at least a decade away given the long term planning on the Port Authority.

As to articulated trains, they will almost certainly need to be new equipment. Luckily the MTA is already investigating articulated trains. The new PA5 cars are basically modified R143 rolling stock used on the 4,5,6, so if the MTA develops new articulated vehicles, its possible the 6th generation Port Authority cars could be as well.

One possibility to expand current capacity could be replacing seats on the trains with folding seats that lock closed at rush hour allowing more space. Again, the MTA has experimented with this, though I'm not sure what the result was.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/n ... ush-hour-article-1.314241


Long term, the PATH will need longer rush hour-hours. Part of the reluctant likely stems from how rail operators are scheduled. Typically, to service rush hours, two things happen. One, overnight crews finish at the end of rush hour, so they can't work longer because they are the end of their shift. Second, rush hour train crews work for a period in the morning and a period in the afternoon with time off at half-pay in between. Its likely that the current shut off times for rush hour service are based around minimizing overtime and not hiring extra crews.

As far as the HBLR system, there is a straight portion on the track designed for a station. More than a decade ago, a developer was looking to build a high rise on the land and would have constructed the light rail station as part of the plan-- it would have gone through the tower's base. However, mostly do to opposition from Height's residents concerned about their views, the tower was not built. NJTransit is currently considering construction of a station there but probably needs more development around the site or might use it as a carrot to get approval for the redevelopment of the rail yard. (Thats a sticky issue because legally they don't need approval, since they are state land, but do want it politically. Hoboken's Zimmer, who is frightened of development, has done her best to stop it.) Anyway, long term planning has a station going in there near Jersey Ave. That doesn't really help get people across the river though.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 18:09
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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There?s no need to combine the idea of a Marion stop with the idea of skip-stop service. They are two different ideas, and should be considered separately.

The idea of a Marion stop seems like a fine idea. It could be built without excavation, which should keep the capital expense from becoming exorbitant. It could help development of the west side. (Maybe it would even encourage Mana to be open to visitors on the weekends. )

Everyone should realize that the Marion stop would add a minute in ?dwell? time, which is the amount of time it takes for the train to slow down, stop, open doors, unload/load passengers, and start up again.

The idea of skip-stop service on a one-track system only makes sense if the operator uses the decreased dwell time to run all trains more frequently. When NYC Transit ran 1/9 skip-stop rush-hour service in uptown Manhattan between 1989 and 2005, the theory was that the decreased dwell time in those stations allowed the system overall to run 28 trains an hour, rather than 25 trains an hour. Here is an interesting article about why 1/9 skip-stop rush hour service was implemented, and why it was discontinued.

In JC, skip-stop service at Grove and Newport doesn?t make much sense when those tracks already service two lines each. (NWK-WTC and JSQ-33 at Grove; JSQ-33 and HOB-WTC at Newport.) Passengers at those stations already have the equivalent of skip-stop wait times because only every other train is going to their desired destination.

Yvonne?s skip-stop service idea also doesn?t make sense because the Marion stop is most logically a stop only on the NWK-WTC line. You can?t economically build a whole terminal at Marion, with the extra tracks to enable switching between inbound and outbound trains. Unless you extend every JSQ-33 train to the Newark terminal, Marion trains wouldn?t be going to Newport at all.

Here?s a different idea: An easy way to alleviate congestion at Grove and Newport would be to extend the rush hours when JSQ-33 trains roll every 5 minutes. Between 9:30 and 10:30 a.m., and between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m., those JSQ-33 trains are ridiculously crowded. It is far worse at 9:45 a.m. inbound than at at any time between 8:00 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. Does anyone disagree? And this suggestion would not require any additional capital spending ? just more operational spending.

I won?t comment on the idea of an additional stop at Brunswick. But here?s another idea that might stir the pot: Add a stop at Cornelison and Academy. This would require re-routing the train to use the rail spur that loops to the south of the current tracks, just west of Merseles Street. A Cornelison stop would open up development near the county office building and along Montgomery. It would make The Beacon much more attractive. It probably would help McGinley Square.

And someone mentioned the Cast Iron Lofts. That entire area from 15th to 18th is ready to pop. HBLR should add a stop at 18th and Coles.

Fire away, folks!


Posted on: 2014/8/12 17:31
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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ceo3west wrote:
Speaking of new path stations, I recently emailed Candice Osborne about discussing with the Port Authority a new station in between Grove and Journal Square (somewhere around Brunswick). These two stations are nearly 2 miles apart, and there are a ton of new developments that are going up or have gone up already in the Village neighborhood. Folks around the Enos Jones area have to walk 20-30 mins to get to a station, and there are ~200 new units going up there.

Candice said she would discuss it with the PA, and the PA did get back to me saying they would take a look at this as a long-term project.


You do realize the station would be on Columbus right? Columbus & Bruswick is only 2500' from Grove. And that's still 2200 ft from Pavonia & Brunswick. From P & B to Grove via Newark is 4000 ft, and if that takes you 20 minutes you've got to stop dragging your feet. Googlemaps clocks it at 16 min, seems about right. The same radius from the station in Hoboken would only be at 6th & Willow, not considered far there at all. Oh, and the stations only 1.5 miles apart, not 2.

I'd say Candace & the PA is humoring you. That's what they do.


Agreed.

I do think a station just west of I-78 where the train comes out of the tunnel would be a smart long-term strategy, though. There's a lot of land in that vicinity that could be developed that's basically just used for storage now (plus the abandoned rail track that runs along I-78 and connects to the HBLR at either end--could eventually be activated if there were new development). That would cover a lot of areas that are right now a really long walk from both Grove and JSQ while also opening the possibility of new development in a rundown region of the city.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 17:15
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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brewster wrote:
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ceo3west wrote:
Speaking of new path stations, I recently emailed Candice Osborne about discussing with the Port Authority a new station in between Grove and Journal Square (somewhere around Brunswick). These two stations are nearly 2 miles apart, and there are a ton of new developments that are going up or have gone up already in the Village neighborhood. Folks around the Enos Jones area have to walk 20-30 mins to get to a station, and there are ~200 new units going up there.

Candice said she would discuss it with the PA, and the PA did get back to me saying they would take a look at this as a long-term project.


You do realize the station would be on Columbus right? Columbus & Bruswick is only 2500' from Grove. And that's still 2200 ft from Pavonia & Brunswick. From P & B to Grove via Newark is 4000 ft, and if that takes you 20 minutes you've got to stop dragging your feet. Googlemaps clocks it at 16 min, seems about right. The same radius from the station in Hoboken would only be at 6th & Willow, not considered far there at all. Oh, and the stations only 1.5 miles apart, not 2.

I'd say Candace & the PA is humoring you. That's what they do.


You're correct, I always thought it ran under Newark Ave. Wouldn't make much sense then, too bad.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 17:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
John Ward Beekman wrote this on facebook:
The old Marion Station wasn't the Hudson Manhattan line, it was a Pennsylvania RR stop. It supported industrial development including the Marion Watch factory that gave the area its name as well as American Can and the "new" Lorrilard plant which is now home to Mana Contemporary. When Penn decided to cut that station it was a severe blow to development on the West Side. Any time you are looking for documentation please feel free to visit the NJ Room at the Main Library or reach out via email. Keep up the good fight!


Great. No one is questioning whether this station would be good for the development of the immediate area. A station would help any neighborhood, that's obvious and no one needs John Ward Beekman's thoughts to know that. Everyone just thinks you're crazy if you think that this station + leapfrogging is going to make the path system any less crowded.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 15:32
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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ceo3west wrote:
Speaking of new path stations, I recently emailed Candice Osborne about discussing with the Port Authority a new station in between Grove and Journal Square (somewhere around Brunswick). These two stations are nearly 2 miles apart, and there are a ton of new developments that are going up or have gone up already in the Village neighborhood. Folks around the Enos Jones area have to walk 20-30 mins to get to a station, and there are ~200 new units going up there.

Candice said she would discuss it with the PA, and the PA did get back to me saying they would take a look at this as a long-term project.


You do realize the station would be on Columbus right? Columbus & Bruswick is only 2500' from Grove. And that's still 2200 ft from Pavonia & Brunswick. From P & B to Grove via Newark is 4000 ft, and if that takes you 20 minutes you've got to stop dragging your feet. Googlemaps clocks it at 16 min, seems about right. The same radius from the station in Hoboken would only be at 6th & Willow, not considered far there at all. Oh, and the stations only 1.5 miles apart, not 2.

I'd say Candace & the PA is humoring you. That's what they do.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 15:09
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Speaking of new path stations, I recently emailed Candice Osborne about discussing with the Port Authority a new station in between Grove and Journal Square (somewhere around Brunswick). These two stations are nearly 2 miles apart, and there are a ton of new developments that are going up or have gone up already in the Village neighborhood. Folks around the Enos Jones area have to walk 20-30 mins to get to a station, and there are ~200 new units going up there.

Candice said she would discuss it with the PA, and the PA did get back to me saying they would take a look at this as a long-term project.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 14:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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i'm all for congestion pricing. they should use that money to fund more mass transit. i'd rather pay $24 so that i can move quickly through the tunnels than spend 30-60 minutes sitting in traffic

Posted on: 2014/8/12 13:26
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Maise wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
in addition to expanding the platforms, path should look at having articulated trains, double decker (i've seen them used on old, low-ceiling systems such as the one in sydney) and a dedicated spot for the conductor


Articulated trains would add 15%+ and is by far the cheapest / easiest way to increase capacity. I have no idea if the current trains could be adapted or if all new trains would be needed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/nyr ... sider-new-model.html?_r=0
Now we're discussing actual solutions!

Also, i disagree that congestion pricing helps anyone except the PA. They get extra cash for doing literally nothing and people who need to get to work during rush hour have another financial burden and no less crowding in the process. I vote Nay on that proposal.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 12:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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hero69 wrote:
in addition to expanding the platforms, path should look at having articulated trains, double decker (i've seen them used on old, low-ceiling systems such as the one in sydney) and a dedicated spot for the conductor


Articulated trains would add 15%+ and is by far the cheapest / easiest way to increase capacity. I have no idea if the current trains could be adapted or if all new trains would be needed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/nyr ... sider-new-model.html?_r=0

Posted on: 2014/8/12 2:27
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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in addition to expanding the platforms, path should look at having articulated trains, double decker (i've seen them used on old, low-ceiling systems such as the one in sydney) and a dedicated spot for the conductor

Posted on: 2014/8/12 2:00
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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my2cents wrote:
I think congestion pricing is a better way to go and would shift ridership to times when trains are not as crowded....


Don't think that is going to accomplish much. I imagine most people who take the train during the busy period have little choice on the start/end times for their jobs. At the end of the day the continuing influx of new residents suggests we need additional capacity (more cars, more lines, increased frequency) or alternate modes of transport.

Posted on: 2014/8/12 1:34
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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John Ward Beekman wrote this on facebook:
The old Marion Station wasn't the Hudson Manhattan line, it was a Pennsylvania RR stop. It supported industrial development including the Marion Watch factory that gave the area its name as well as American Can and the "new" Lorrilard plant which is now home to Mana Contemporary. When Penn decided to cut that station it was a severe blow to development on the West Side. Any time you are looking for documentation please feel free to visit the NJ Room at the Main Library or reach out via email. Keep up the good fight!

Posted on: 2014/8/11 21:29
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
This is news to me. Is my Fire Marshall running for something?


Exactly

Posted on: 2014/8/11 2:48
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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This is news to me. Is my Fire Marshall running for something?

Posted on: 2014/8/10 23:15
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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We should never elect her Fire Marshall.

Posted on: 2014/8/10 2:27
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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corybraiterman wrote:
The earth is not flat, you are not intelligent and your notions are wrong.


I think all responses to Yvonne should start and end with this phrase!

Posted on: 2014/8/9 21:10
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I think congestion pricing is a better way to go and would shift ridership to times when trains are not as crowded....

Posted on: 2014/8/9 20:53
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I see no need to patronize the willfully ignorant. There's a reason i declined to visit the crazy persons page, and she had amply demonstrated why that's a smart decision.

Hey crazy person, when you're wrong, you can't hide behind "don't call me names!" When you're suggesting physical impossibilities. The earth is not flat, you are not intelligent and your notions are wrong.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 20:41
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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How about this Yvonne:

Assumed Facts:
1. the PATH system is currently at capacity: for the sake of argument, let's say 20 trains per hour during rush hour (I don't know what the real number is, this is only an example), and

2. there are no "spare" tracks in the PATH system (like the "dedicated" express tracks for the NYC subway)

Following rules of logic, if the system is already at capacity with 20 trains, even if you add one more train (express or not), not all of those original 20 trains will be able to make it within the hour. Hence, someone will be delayed going to their work.

ANd how can a train be "express" when it still needs to wait for all trains ahead of it to do their regular stops? Yes, it may not open its doors to let people in/out, but it still needs to wait (for previous local trains to do that) - since there's no skipping ("leapfrong") trains because there are NO SPARE TRACKS for those "express" trains to travel on???

In this case, if a local train takes 30 minutes to go from JSQ to WTC, it will take the express train the same time - because it's stuck behind the local train!!!

It's obvious that you're preaching to the wrong choir here.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 18:32
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Thinking rationally means not calling people names. So I think you were not listening.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 17:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Didn't your parents teach you manners? You don't win friends by calling people dense. But then again, you hide behind a phony name to protect yourself. If my idea is wrong, then every bus in NYC who runs express and skips stations is wrong. They skip areas and only go to certain spots which gets passengers on the bus by avoiding the typical bus stops. Without the skipping the bus would be too compact with riders. It also makes the bus go faster. I am sure if we skip stations and do not pick up passengers, we would see similar benefits.


Unlike your parents, mine taught me manners AND how to think rationally.

You keep comparing your "idea" to NYC buses and subways. What's SO HARD to understand about the fact that express subways in NYC run on a separate track from the regular (local) subways? As for buses, isn't it obvious??? The ride on the street, so they can "leapfrog" other buses, as needed. So, an express bus that is running on a given avenue will skip some stops, and make others, but whenever it is skipping stops, it simply moves one lane over and it isn't held back by the buses making all stops.

Goodness, you ARE dense.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 17:51
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Didn't your parents teach you manners? You don't win friends by calling people dense. But then again, you hide behind a phony name to protect yourself. If my idea is wrong, then every bus in NYC who runs express and skips stations is wrong. They skip areas and only go to certain spots which gets passengers on the bus by avoiding the typical bus stops. Without the skipping the bus would be too compact with riders. It also makes the bus go faster. I am sure if we skip stations and do not pick up passengers, we would see similar benefits.



God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
forever in the next.
Amen.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 17:45
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Didn't your parents teach you manners? You don't win friends by calling people dense. But then again, you hide behind a phony name to protect yourself. If my idea is wrong, then every bus in NYC who runs express and skips stations is wrong. They skip areas and only go to certain spots which gets passengers on the bus by avoiding the typical bus stops. Without the skipping the bus would be too compact with riders. It also makes the bus go faster. I am sure if we skip stations and do not pick up passengers, we would see similar benefits.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 16:26
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Auggie Torres column in an interview with Fulop. The mayor talks about 25,000 new units down the pipeline with 75,000 potential residents in JC. We need this Marion station.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... a_visit.html#incart_river


Why are you being SO DENSE? You can NOT implement an "express" system on the PATH because there are no alternate tracks on which these trains could run. So, your fictional Marion train would skip JSQ and stop at Grove, but how does it go AROUND the JSQ train? It CAN'T. And the JSQ train skipping Grove stopping at Pavonia, how does it then skip the previous train that left Grove on its way to Christopher Street?? There is no way for it to sidestep that train. Simply put, this half-baked idea is exactly that: useless and unworkable.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 14:18
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Auggie Torres column in an interview with Fulop. The mayor talks about 25,000 new units down the pipeline with 75,000 potential residents in JC. We need this Marion station.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... a_visit.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2014/8/9 12:51
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
It means people at Grove can at least get on a train.


No it doesn't. This has been explained. As people are watching a train bypass the station and keep waiting for another train, more and more people will come down the stairs and make the platform even more crowded. The train will still be crowded!

Posted on: 2014/8/9 3:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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corybraiterman wrote:
I am truly enjoying seeing the crazy lady try and explain how you can simply shove more ball bearings down a pipe and thus, you'd have better running ball bearings because they aren't stopping at every section along the pipe!



It feels playing Whac-A-Mole.

I think I'd have a better shot at talking sense into those f*ckers riding their bikes on the sidewalks Downtown.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 2:18
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