JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City [Contractors]

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#204

Home away from home

Joined:
2015/4/7 16:51
Last Login :
2017/5/5 16:03

From PAD

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 195

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Good heavens boris, if you're unable to understand what's wrong with an increasingly large segment of the population being exploited by methods that negatively affect their ability to participate in a consumer-based ecomonic system that depends on their participation, there's nothing more worth explaining to you.

The idea that any grown adult freely entering into an agreement with another party to perform work in a given arrangement is "exploitation" is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. How little respect do you have for these drivers that you think that they are incapable of making their own choices on how to participate in the economy?

Posted on: 2015/5/1 20:24

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#203

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

Good heavens boris, if you're unable to understand what's wrong with an increasingly large segment of the population being exploited by methods that negatively affect their ability to participate in a consumer-based ecomonic system that depends on their participation, there's nothing more worth explaining to you.

You were already off by an entire order of magnitude in the elevator discussion because of your inability or refusal to objectively comprehend the scope of the problem, so it's no surprise that the trend continues.

Posted on: 2015/5/1 20:19

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#202

Home away from home

Joined:
2011/5/29 3:09
Last Login :
2019/10/31 13:04

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 727

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:
borisp wrote:
The most telling aspect of this discussion is we see a service that we like, the drivers see a job that they want, and you see a "corporation" that you must attack, just because it's there.

Anyway, here something that a friend of mine always says to people like you: start your own service. According to you, it's possible to charge the same as Uber or even less, while paying drivers more and with some benefits. So, if you're right, your new business will easily outcompete Uber as both a service provider and as employer. You'll prove your point, you'll do a lot of good for everyone, and you'll get rich while doing it. A trifecta!

If you believe in the things that you proclaim, you have no good reason not to do it.

People like me?? I can?t possibly know what you mean by that, so I?m going with objective? and since you?re being so generous, let?s throw in tall and good looking?you flatterer, you!

Actually I meant "people who proclaim that they know better how to run other people's business". In any case I am happy to congratulate you on being tall and good looking. In the course of human history there were many societies where those qualities alone would have given you a leg up in any debate. I'm not sure that we live in one of those, unfortunately.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:

Ultimately, it?s objectivity that?s my reason for finding fault with the particular way that Uber uses independent contractors to reduce operating costs?which in turn allows them to maintain profits while simultaneously reducing the costs to consumers. A company cannot facilitate what Uber does at Uber-rate prices while playing by the same rules as a taxi company, paying the same taxes and licensing fees, and providing equitable treatment to the drivers who do all the work.

Actually if "objectivity" were the reason for your "fault finding", you wouldn't use those highly subjective terms like "equitable treatment".

Second, I'm pretty sure that Uber pays the same taxes. As for the licensing fees - it's not Uber's fault that someone else imposed those fees on the taxi companies. Taxi companies and city governments invented those fees in order to establish a cartel for medallion-holders. By the same account you could start lamenting the fact the Uber avoids paying bribes.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
... However, cost cutting can turn to means that are not sustainable for our consumer-based economy, and that?s where those practices become?oh no not again?a race to the bottom.

You keep repeating those words without ever explaining what you mean by them. It's like a generic "yes, sure, something X makes our lives easier, but it may also cause problems". Ok. Anything specific? No? Thanks, come back when you have something.

Also, ok, let's imagine that Uber will not be able to "sustain" those cost-cutting and will go out of business.
What's you problem than? How is that something that should worry anyone except Uber investors?

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
If the consulting firm I work for required that I supplied virtually everything that permits me do my job, I would be working for a crazy bunch of pricks?but I don?t

It's like proclaiming that an owner of a BYOB restaurant is a crazy prick because you personally would never go to a restaurant that doesn't have a full bar!

This is your problem. What you proclaim to be "objective" measures are in fact your subjective likes and dislikes. It's all a matter of choice. Some people like a full bar. Some people like to bring their own wine. Some people like their employer to put up all the capital needed to do the job and be paid purely like hired hands. Some people prefer to add their own capital to the mix.

A person may go drive for Uber, or drive for a cab company, or they can start their own one-driver cab company, - depending on what they are willing to invest on their own and what they want to be provided by someone else. If they chose Uber, it's because they WANT it. It's because they don't want 100% ownership of their own firm, and they don't want to be 100% hired-hand of a cab company, they want something in-between.

It doesn't matter that you wouldn't make the same decision. What you want, your preferences - those are not universally good things. If you don't like to risk your own capital it's just your own subjective preference. It doesn't mean it is wrong for everybody. If you prefer to be a 9-to-5 hired hand, it doesn't mean this is the Only True Way to earn money.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Finally, and since you brought up the put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is thing, how?s your $200,000 Grove St. elevator project coming?

I'm not sure how this comparison works. I claimed that PA overpays for the elevator. Do you challenge me to start my own Port Authority and to show how I can buy elevators at lower cost?

Posted on: 2015/5/1 19:36

corybraiterman

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#201

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/7/3 5:49
Last Login :
2022/4/28 22:07

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1384

Quote:

caj11 wrote:

Because Journal Square is about the only place in Jersey City you can reliably find a taxi when you need one.

Grove Street

Posted on: 2015/5/1 19:26

caj11

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#200

Home away from home

Joined:
2007/10/1 1:03
Last Login :
6/5 23:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1280

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

borisp wrote:
The most telling aspect of this discussion is we see a service that we like, the drivers see a job that they want, and you see a "corporation" that you must attack, just because it's there.

Anyway, here something that a friend of mine always says to people like you: start your own service. According to you, it's possible to charge the same as Uber or even less, while paying drivers more and with some benefits. So, if you're right, your new business will easily outcompete Uber as both a service provider and as employer. You'll prove your point, you'll do a lot of good for everyone, and you'll get rich while doing it. A trifecta!

If you believe in the things that you proclaim, you have no good reason not to do it.

People like me?? I can?t possibly know what you mean by that, so I?m going with objective? and since you?re being so generous, let?s throw in tall and good looking?you flatterer, you!

Ultimately, it?s objectivity that?s my reason for finding fault with the particular way that Uber uses independent contractors to reduce operating costs?which in turn allows them to maintain profits while simultaneously reducing the costs to consumers. A company cannot facilitate what Uber does at Uber-rate prices while playing by the same rules as a taxi company, paying the same taxes and licensing fees, and providing equitable treatment to the drivers who do all the work. That?s basically the entire point I?m making. You can disagree if you want, but there?s no point in thoroughly misunderstanding it the way you have.

Reducing costs to retain or increase profit is a proven, common-sense method for competing in the market. I do it as an engineer, and I?m sure you do it as whatever you are. However, cost cutting can turn to means that are not sustainable for our consumer-based economy, and that?s where those practices become?oh no not again?a race to the bottom.

If the consulting firm I work for required that I supplied virtually everything that permits me do my job, I would be working for a crazy bunch of pricks?but I don?t?I work for a company whose business practices are mutually beneficial, and which allow me to participate in and help stimulate our consumer-based economy. Companies like Uber and Amazon on the other hand, deliberately tilt the deck heavily in their favor which reduces their contractors? and workers? ability to do the same. It?s not about having a personal beef with these companies, it?s simply about them being poor corporate citizens and taking more from our economy than they give back. (Oh, but the low low prices, how tempting!)

1. It's the drivers' choice to drive for Uber of Lyft
2. It's the consumers' choice to use Uber or Lyft
3. It's the local taxicabs' choice to not come out with their own app, drive dingy rundown vehicles, not take credit cards and not turn on the meters when they are supposed to

I've asked you this question several times Frank and you seem to just ignore it. You seem to be implying that I should not use Uber or Lyft in the interests of the "greater good" for all and I should just stick with the old-school taxis which are clearly a broken business model in Jersey City, for both the drivers and customers. For me, Uber isn't that much about price - sometimes it's cheaper than cabs, sometimes it isn't. It comes down to convenience. When I'm walking around Manhattan, I can usually find a cab, sometimes it takes a while but I can get one no problem. But when I'm in Jersey City, there are usually NO cabs to be found when I need one.

I've asked before - what am I supposed to do - stand around and wait for an available taxi that might NEVER show up, all in the interest of the "greater good" of saving society from the big evil Uber or Lyft corporation? Should I be inconvenienced like that? That seems to be your philosophy.

Because Journal Square is about the only place in Jersey City you can reliably find a taxi when you need one and you often have to wait in a slow moving line. Just ridiculous.

Posted on: 2015/5/1 19:06

user1111

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#199

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/1/11 18:21
Last Login :
2019/12/26 15:30

From GV Bayside Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 5356

Spring has sprung in New Jersey, and it?s officially that time of year for cleaning out closets. In the spirit of the season, we are teaming up with our friends at Goodwill? NYNJ to make your spring cleaning quick and convenient. This Saturday, tap a button to have a driver arrive, pick up your bags of clothing, and deliver them directly to a local donation center?at no cost to you.

HOW IT WORKS:

Bag up clothing you?re willing to donate
Open your Uber app between 10am ? 6pm on Saturday, May 2
Request GIVE at the bottom of the screen
If you?re connected, an SUV will arrive to pick up your items and bring them to Goodwill at no cost to you
THE DETAILS:

#UberSpringCleaning will be available in the following NJ counties: Essex, Hudson, Union, and parts of Bergen, Middlesex, Morris, Passaic, Somerset
All clothing must be bagged for drivers to accept your donation
Please keep in mind drivers can?t leave vehicles unattended?we ask that you bring your bagged clothing out to meet your driver when they arrive
Demand will be high, so please be patient
Those who are able to donate on May 2 will receive a follow up email with tax receipt information (you should expect this email within 1-3 days)
If you are unable to donate on May 2, you can still help your local Goodwill by finding the nearest donation center here.

We are thrilled to be partnering with Goodwill NYNJ for #UberSpringCleaning this Saturday. By donating, you?re not only checking a box on your to-do list, but also supporting Goodwill in its mission of job placement and training for people in your community.

UBER AND GOODWILL

Posted on: 2015/5/1 18:06

http://googleitbitch.com/

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#198

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

Quote:

borisp wrote:
The most telling aspect of this discussion is we see a service that we like, the drivers see a job that they want, and you see a "corporation" that you must attack, just because it's there.

Anyway, here something that a friend of mine always says to people like you: start your own service. According to you, it's possible to charge the same as Uber or even less, while paying drivers more and with some benefits. So, if you're right, your new business will easily outcompete Uber as both a service provider and as employer. You'll prove your point, you'll do a lot of good for everyone, and you'll get rich while doing it. A trifecta!

If you believe in the things that you proclaim, you have no good reason not to do it.

People like me?? I can?t possibly know what you mean by that, so I?m going with objective? and since you?re being so generous, let?s throw in tall and good looking?you flatterer, you!

Ultimately, it?s objectivity that?s my reason for finding fault with the particular way that Uber uses independent contractors to reduce operating costs?which in turn allows them to maintain profits while simultaneously reducing the costs to consumers. A company cannot facilitate what Uber does at Uber-rate prices while playing by the same rules as a taxi company, paying the same taxes and licensing fees, and providing equitable treatment to the drivers who do all the work. That?s basically the entire point I?m making. You can disagree if you want, but there?s no point in thoroughly misunderstanding it the way you have.

Reducing costs to retain or increase profit is a proven, common-sense method for competing in the market. I do it as an engineer, and I?m sure you do it as whatever you are. However, cost cutting can turn to means that are not sustainable for our consumer-based economy, and that?s where those practices become?oh no not again?a race to the bottom.

If the consulting firm I work for required that I supplied virtually everything that permits me do my job, I would be working for a crazy bunch of pricks?but I don?t?I work for a company whose business practices are mutually beneficial, and which allow me to participate in and help stimulate our consumer-based economy. Companies like Uber and Amazon on the other hand, deliberately tilt the deck heavily in their favor which reduces their contractors? and workers? ability to do the same. It?s not about having a personal beef with these companies, it?s simply about them being poor corporate citizens and taking more from our economy than they give back. (Oh, but the low low prices, how tempting!)

Finally, and since you brought up the put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is thing, how?s your $200,000 Grove St. elevator project coming?

Posted on: 2015/5/1 14:49

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#197

Home away from home

Joined:
2011/5/29 3:09
Last Login :
2019/10/31 13:04

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 727

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
The most telling aspect of this discussion is the willingness among many of you to defend an extremely wealthy and extraordinarily fast-growing corporation that employs a disproportionately small number of people worldwide. Their great wealth and meteoric growth isn?t simply due to a revolutionary method for hiring a car?in fact it?s more closely tied to the unfortunate trend of poor corporate citizenship. Simply put, Uber would not be able to concentrate such a tremendous amount of wealth in the hands of so very few if it didn?t offset much of the cost of doing business on to the shoulders of independent contractors who receive absolutely no benefits, labor protections, or profit sharing for their efforts. This growing practice among many companies is certainly profitable for a small number of people at the very top, but it is not the way to a healthy, sustainable economy.

Have a wonderful day, everyone!

The most telling aspect of this discussion is we see a service that we like, the drivers see a job that they want, and you see a "corporation" that you must attack, just because it's there.

Anyway, here something that a friend of mine always says to people like you: start your own service. According to you, it's possible to charge the same as Uber or even less, while paying drivers more and with some benefits. So, if you're right, your new business will easily outcompete Uber as both a service provider and as employer. You'll prove your point, you'll do a lot of good for everyone, and you'll get rich while doing it. A trifecta!

If you believe in the things that you proclaim, you have no good reason not to do it.

Posted on: 2015/5/1 2:17

Pebble

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#196

Home away from home

Joined:
2013/3/29 21:43
Last Login :
2023/9/5 18:27

From Bergen Hill

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1980

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

JcDevil wrote:
You can call it a "race to the bottom" or whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that labor is no longer worth much. The idea that entrenched interests or outdated business structures should be protected when better, more efficient options exist is utterly asinine, and is akin to the horse buggy industry asking mommy government to help them protect people from the dangers of those newfangled horseless carriages.

So, I will absolutely defend Uber's business practices. They are providing technology that allows people to efficiently leverage their own limited capital (their car) to make extra money if they so wish. Driving for UberX was never intended to be a career for people, but if people choose to do so, that is their own choice. In the case of the former (part-time drivers), it gives them a flexible part-time option to earn some extra money without having to worry about schedule conflicts.

This is far beyond the scope of our discussion, but there are powerful forces at work here that are going to force us to re-examine the nature of work, or at least, of unskilled work. Are we going to have to go through the same nonsense in 10 years when Uber switches to an all-automated driving force? Or, are we going to start to talk about how best to provide for those left behind by the technological revolution without inane regulations that hamstring businesses that are trying to innovate?

What insane regulations are forcing the hired car business to turn to a model like Uber?s in order to survive? In fact, what?s preventing Uber from getting into the transportation business and competing on equal terms themselves? They?ve already developed a brilliant software application for hiring cars, all they need is a fleet of vehicles and people to operate it.

There are two forms of innovation at work here?the software and what it's able to do, and then the clever ways that Uber puts the screws to labor and absolves itself from the commitment of a large capital investment. One of those is indeed progress, the other is just fuel for the race to the bottom. Yes, that?s what I?m calling it because it?s not sustainable. As millions of people become less and less able to participate in the consumer-based economy that ideally benefits us all, the effects will eventually catch up to us as well.

Also, who decided that driving a car was never intended to be full time work? I?m certain that driving a taxi is indeed full time work for people all over the world, most likely in numbers that exceed those employed in my field and yours combined.

I am not going to disagree with the principle behind your argument. However, there are certain industries in which the labor force can be contractual and the result be beneficial to all.

Uber didn?t invent contract employees. They?ve existed for decades upon decades. What you didn?t see before was the use of contract employees in the transportation industry.

Through the use of Uber, the field has opened up to a variety of people. Instead of the operators of the vehicles being required to accept specific shift hours, told to drive specific cars and are only offered a specific salary, Uber has opened the door to allow drivers the ability to operate in a manner that is comfortable to them.

Whereas Jersey City taxi companies may not be hiring, except for overnight hours, Uber has allowed the driver to select the hours in which they want to work. Instead of only Irvington saying that they are hiring taxi drivers, Uber is allowing drivers to select the towns and areas that they would like to operate. If these drivers find that they aren?t getting enough trips or making enough money in Jersey City, they will adjust by adjusting their hours and location.

I don?t know if you have used Uber at all, but I?ve had more than a few drivers that were residents in New York. They worked in Jersey City because there is a demand in Jersey City. It made sense for them to be here. Those New York residents aren?t working in New Jersey if they weren?t able to make enough money to operate in New Jersey.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 17:50

Dos A Cero

caj11

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#195

Home away from home

Joined:
2007/10/1 1:03
Last Login :
6/5 23:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1280

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
The most telling aspect of this discussion is the willingness among many of you to defend an extremely wealthy and extraordinarily fast-growing corporation that employs a disproportionately small number of people worldwide. Their great wealth and meteoric growth isn?t simply due to a revolutionary method for hiring a car?in fact it?s more closely tied to the unfortunate trend of poor corporate citizenship. Simply put, Uber would not be able to concentrate such a tremendous amount of wealth in the hands of so very few if it didn?t offset much of the cost of doing business on to the shoulders of independent contractors who receive absolutely no benefits, labor protections, or profit sharing for their efforts. This growing practice among many companies is certainly profitable for a small number of people at the very top, but it is not the way to a healthy, sustainable economy.

Have a wonderful day, everyone!

I'm not defending any corporation - I'm just sick of not being able to find a taxi in Jersey City when I need one. Am I supposed to suffer and be delayed when I need to get somewhere? All in the name of preserving a corrupt and broken institution with shitty cars and drivers who won't turn on their meters and arbitrarily decide fares? You haven't answered that question.

As far as the indepedent contractors who get no benefits, labor protections or profit sharing, don't most taxi and car services work the same way? Furthermore, even if taxi and car services treat their drivers better (and in most places, I don't think they do), it is the CHOICE of the driver to work for Uber or Lyft, or whomever they want. If drivers aren't making enough money working for Uber or Lyft, they will quit. Uber would be forced to reduce the commission they take or raise rates and the market will work efficiently.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 13:48

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#194

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

The most telling aspect of this discussion is the willingness among many of you to defend an extremely wealthy and extraordinarily fast-growing corporation that employs a disproportionately small number of people worldwide. Their great wealth and meteoric growth isn?t simply due to a revolutionary method for hiring a car?in fact it?s more closely tied to the unfortunate trend of poor corporate citizenship. Simply put, Uber would not be able to concentrate such a tremendous amount of wealth in the hands of so very few if it didn?t offset much of the cost of doing business on to the shoulders of independent contractors who receive absolutely no benefits, labor protections, or profit sharing for their efforts. This growing practice among many companies is certainly profitable for a small number of people at the very top, but it is not the way to a healthy, sustainable economy.

Have a wonderful day, everyone!

Posted on: 2015/4/30 12:19

Adonis

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#193

Home away from home

Joined:
2005/8/6 23:41
Last Login :
2020/8/26 11:59

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 559

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

Adonis wrote:
To all those nut jobs worried about this so called "race to the bottom" facilitated by UBER - just wait until fully automated driverless cars start hitting the streets of JC in the next decade or so.

You might as well start slitting your wrists now.

I?m all for a bit of name calling, jackass, but at least try to throw a few ideas in there. Others are making good points?can you?

I don't have to. The others are making my points for me. Enjoy.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 3:15

bodhipooh

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#192

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/8/12 18:31
Last Login :
2020/4/26 22:05

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3932

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
i have my doubts about the sustainability of uber, especially in dense areas like manhattan, san fran

ha ha ha! Seriously!? You must be joking. NYC and San Francisco (BOTH!) are the most important markets for Uber. I would argue the opposite: Uber needs to make a BIGGER effort to recruit more drivers in those markets. It is not at all uncommon to run into the dreaded "surge pricing" in either market because SO MANY people are using Uber, all the time.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 3:13

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#191

Home away from home

Joined:
2011/5/29 3:09
Last Login :
2019/10/31 13:04

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 727

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:

...There are two forms of innovation at work here?the software and what it's able to do, and then the clever ways that Uber puts the screws to labor and absolves itself from the commitment of a large capital investment. One of those is indeed progress, the other is just fuel for the race to the bottom.

You need to clarify what do you mean by "bottom" and for whom. It's clearly beneficial for the drivers, otherwise they'd never drove for Uber, preferring to work for a taxi medallion owner instead. It's clearly beneficial for the riders, since they get a choice.

It's not so great for the one-percenter medallion owners who bought themselves an extremely expensive piece of the government-protected cartel, here I can agree.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Yes, that?s what I?m calling it because it?s not sustainable.

What are you worried about then? If this model isn't sustainable it will go bankrupt, and you'll be happy.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
As millions of people become less and less able to participate in the consumer-based economy that ideally benefits us all, the effects will eventually catch up to us as well.

The consumer-based economy is significantly more sustainable than an alternative.
Otherwise we'd have this dialogue in Russian, while sitting in our Moscow flats.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 2:15

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#190

Home away from home

Joined:
2011/5/29 3:09
Last Login :
2019/10/31 13:04

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 727

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
i have my doubts about the sustainability of uber, especially in dense areas like manhattan, san fran

Looking at how the established taxicab cartels are trying to kill Uber, I assume they disagree with you on the subject.

Posted on: 2015/4/30 2:04

hero69

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#189

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/14 2:38
Last Login :
2023/1/30 21:43

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3792

i have my doubts about the sustainability of uber, especially in dense areas like manhattan, san fran

Posted on: 2015/4/30 0:54

dtjcview

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#188

Home away from home

Joined:
2010/8/17 1:45
Last Login :
2020/8/26 13:40

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3141

Is there an app for http://www.abesbuggyrides.com/ ?

Posted on: 2015/4/29 23:05

tern

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#187

Home away from home

Joined:
2006/5/10 16:36
Last Login :
2023/7/18 1:45

From Hamilton Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 981

On the subject of Jersey City cabs being impossible to find, I have always wondered why they all congregate in a couple of massive queues at Grove Street and Journal Square.

Surely the 20th taxi at the back of the queue would have a better chance to get a passenger by driving down Newark Avenue or over to Shoprite, anywhere really - cruise around and let someone hail you as they do in Manahattan.

Isn't that the whole point differentiating a licensed cab vs car-service? If the licensed taxis all sit in a couple of places and you have to call them to collect you then there is no difference between licensed taxis and a car-service.

Robin.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 22:36

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#186

Home away from home

Joined:
2011/11/30 12:46
Last Login :
2017/8/3 1:06

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1907

Refrigerators were a "race to the bottom" for milkmen. Does that mean we shouldn't use refrigerators?

Posted on: 2015/4/29 22:34

caj11

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#185

Home away from home

Joined:
2007/10/1 1:03
Last Login :
6/5 23:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1280

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Uber is anything but the "bottom" of the hired car business in Jersey City. I don't even care that much about whether Uber costs less or more than the cabs in Jersey City. It's not even the horrific condition that so many cabs in Jersey City are in, or the fact that so many Jersey City cabdrivers refuse to turn on the meters and arbitrarily decide the fares. It's the fact that, when I need a cab in Jersey City - THERE ARE NONE AVAILABLE! You tell me what I'm supposed to do when it's pouring rain outside, I need a cab and there are none to be found.

Uber fills that void in Jersey City and to some extent in Hoboken. I find it unnecessary to use Uber when I'm in Manhattan. Unless the Jersey City cabdrivers want to get together and create an app of their own (apparently this was proposed in Hoboken some time ago and the cab businesses blew it off), I'll be using Uber whenever I need a cab within town.

?Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City?? Did you miss where I agree that taxis in JC suck, but how that it still doesn?t negate the consequences of certain business practices?

Consider the argument that companies like Uber?that reduce would-be employees to benefit-free private contractors who are now responsible for nearly all the costs of doing business?fit the definition of ?race to the bottom? very well. Uber isn?t the only company taking advantage of the world?s labor force in this manner, but they?re a good example.

Jcdevilsadvocate might call it ?efficiency,? but he might also lack empathy considering that he doesn?t even come close to addressing what the practice ultimately means for laborers.

Think beyond Jersey City and your own taxi rides. Think of the wider world and the ease at which we are sold on bad ideas by appealing to our selfish motives.

Or not.

So, I have to suffer in the rain when there are no cabs to be found in Jersey City, all in the interest of benefitting the "wider world" and overcoming my own "selfish motives?"

Sorry Frank, I'm just going to have to be selfish and many other people will be too. Unless the cabs in Jersey City come up with their own app and make it easy to summon a taxi when I need one, it's Uber or Lyft all the way. The old taxi system In Jersey City is a broken one and does not do a good job of matching the buyers and sellers. Uber and Lyft do just that. Uber and Lyft are less relevant in places like Manhattan.

And really, if Uber or Lyft get shut down, another type of app-based service will simply take its place. There are many others all over the country already - Gett, Sidecar, Flywheel and so on. It is just too good of an idea to not exist. The anti-Uber crowd may win many battles but the war has already been lost.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 22:22

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#184

Home away from home

Joined:
2015/4/7 16:51
Last Login :
2017/5/5 16:03

From PAD

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 195

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:

Also, who decided that driving a car was never intended to be full time work? I?m certain that driving a taxi is indeed full time work for people all over the world, most likely in numbers that exceed those employed in my field and yours combined.

Never said that, I said that UberX was never intended to be full time work. UberBlack has always been exclusively for professional livery drivers. The demand is obviously much higher for the cheaper former type, but that simply has to do with the fact that much of the market simply doesn't care if they're chauffeured around by a professional.

So, who decided that driving a car isn't intended to be full time work? Well, the market. The market has seen that professionals are no better at providing this service than part-timers. Shouldn't the professional, with his years of driving and "customer service" experience (couldn't say that with a straight face) be able to provide a service worth more than the part-timer? A taxi/livery driver spends 40-80 hours a week driving people around... yet an amateur with Waze will get me there with a better route every time.

The fact is that technology (GPS, navigation, traffic tracking) has already supplanted the marginal utility that a professional driver used to provide, and in a decade or so, will supplant the marginal utility of the non-professionals. Drivers can kick, scream, and whine about it, or they can prepare for the changes that will happen eventually.

A universal basic income, combined with part-time work, will be the future for unskilled, uneducated workers, it's not a matter of if, but when.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 21:21

JCMan8

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#183

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/11/10 20:38
Last Login :
2018/2/1 3:02

From JC

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3071

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

JcDevil wrote:
You can call it a "race to the bottom" or whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that labor is no longer worth much. The idea that entrenched interests or outdated business structures should be protected when better, more efficient options exist is utterly asinine, and is akin to the horse buggy industry asking mommy government to help them protect people from the dangers of those newfangled horseless carriages.

So, I will absolutely defend Uber's business practices. They are providing technology that allows people to efficiently leverage their own limited capital (their car) to make extra money if they so wish. Driving for UberX was never intended to be a career for people, but if people choose to do so, that is their own choice. In the case of the former (part-time drivers), it gives them a flexible part-time option to earn some extra money without having to worry about schedule conflicts.

This is far beyond the scope of our discussion, but there are powerful forces at work here that are going to force us to re-examine the nature of work, or at least, of unskilled work. Are we going to have to go through the same nonsense in 10 years when Uber switches to an all-automated driving force? Or, are we going to start to talk about how best to provide for those left behind by the technological revolution without inane regulations that hamstring businesses that are trying to innovate?

What insane regulations are forcing the hired car business to turn to a model like Uber?s in order to survive? In fact, what?s preventing Uber from getting into the transportation business and competing on equal terms themselves? They?ve already developed a brilliant software application for hiring cars, all they need is a fleet of vehicles and people to operate it.

There are two forms of innovation at work here?the software and what it's able to do, and then the clever ways that Uber puts the screws to labor and absolves itself from the commitment of a large capital investment. One of those is indeed progress, the other is just fuel for the race to the bottom. Yes, that?s what I?m calling it because it?s not sustainable. As millions of people become less and less able to participate in the consumer-based economy that ideally benefits us all, the effects will eventually catch up to us as well.

Also, who decided that driving a car was never intended to be full time work? I?m certain that driving a taxi is indeed full time work for people all over the world, most likely in numbers that exceed those employed in my field and yours combined.

What you call a "race to the bottom" others call "technology."

I agree that continued technological advances will (and already is) make jobs redundant in pretty much every industry. However, this is exactly what progress is, as unpleasant as it may be for some.

Attempting to use the government to block progress will not stop the inevitable, and in this case, would only harm the consumer. In our case it means being forced to use the shitty Hudson Cty cabs.

Like it or not, history proves that Luddite attitudes never prevail in the long run.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 21:20

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#182

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

Quote:

Adonis wrote:
To all those nut jobs worried about this so called "race to the bottom" facilitated by UBER - just wait until fully automated driverless cars start hitting the streets of JC in the next decade or so.

You might as well start slitting your wrists now.

I?m all for a bit of name calling, jackass, but at least try to throw a few ideas in there. Others are making good points?can you?

Posted on: 2015/4/29 21:14

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#181

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

Quote:

JcDevil wrote:
You can call it a "race to the bottom" or whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that labor is no longer worth much. The idea that entrenched interests or outdated business structures should be protected when better, more efficient options exist is utterly asinine, and is akin to the horse buggy industry asking mommy government to help them protect people from the dangers of those newfangled horseless carriages.

So, I will absolutely defend Uber's business practices. They are providing technology that allows people to efficiently leverage their own limited capital (their car) to make extra money if they so wish. Driving for UberX was never intended to be a career for people, but if people choose to do so, that is their own choice. In the case of the former (part-time drivers), it gives them a flexible part-time option to earn some extra money without having to worry about schedule conflicts.

This is far beyond the scope of our discussion, but there are powerful forces at work here that are going to force us to re-examine the nature of work, or at least, of unskilled work. Are we going to have to go through the same nonsense in 10 years when Uber switches to an all-automated driving force? Or, are we going to start to talk about how best to provide for those left behind by the technological revolution without inane regulations that hamstring businesses that are trying to innovate?

What insane regulations are forcing the hired car business to turn to a model like Uber?s in order to survive? In fact, what?s preventing Uber from getting into the transportation business and competing on equal terms themselves? They?ve already developed a brilliant software application for hiring cars, all they need is a fleet of vehicles and people to operate it.

There are two forms of innovation at work here?the software and what it's able to do, and then the clever ways that Uber puts the screws to labor and absolves itself from the commitment of a large capital investment. One of those is indeed progress, the other is just fuel for the race to the bottom. Yes, that?s what I?m calling it because it?s not sustainable. As millions of people become less and less able to participate in the consumer-based economy that ideally benefits us all, the effects will eventually catch up to us as well.

Also, who decided that driving a car was never intended to be full time work? I?m certain that driving a taxi is indeed full time work for people all over the world, most likely in numbers that exceed those employed in my field and yours combined.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 21:05

Adonis

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#180

Home away from home

Joined:
2005/8/6 23:41
Last Login :
2020/8/26 11:59

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 559

To all those nut jobs worried about this so called "race to the bottom" facilitated by UBER - just wait until fully automated driverless cars start hitting the streets of JC in the next decade or so.

You might as well start slitting your wrists now.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 20:31

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#179

Home away from home

Joined:
2015/4/7 16:51
Last Login :
2017/5/5 16:03

From PAD

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 195

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:

Consider the argument that companies like Uber?that reduce would-be employees to benefit-free private contractors who are now responsible for nearly all the costs of doing business?fit the definition of ?race to the bottom? very well. Uber isn?t the only company taking advantage of the world?s labor force in this manner, but they?re a good example.

Jcdevilsadvocate might call it ?efficiency,? but he might also lack empathy considering that he doesn?t even come close to addressing what the practice ultimately means for laborers.

Think beyond Jersey City and your own taxi rides. Think of the wider world and the ease at which we are sold on bad ideas by appealing to our selfish motives.

Or not.

You can call it a "race to the bottom" or whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is that labor is no longer worth much. The idea that entrenched interests or outdated business structures should be protected when better, more efficient options exist is utterly asinine, and is akin to the horse buggy industry asking mommy government to help them protect people from the dangers of those newfangled horseless carriages.

So, I will absolutely defend Uber's business practices. They are providing technology that allows people to efficiently leverage their own limited capital (their car) to make extra money if they so wish. Driving for UberX was never intended to be a career for people, but if people choose to do so, that is their own choice. In the case of the former (part-time drivers), it gives them a flexible part-time option to earn some extra money without having to worry about schedule conflicts.

This is far beyond the scope of our discussion, but there are powerful forces at work here that are going to force us to re-examine the nature of work, or at least, of unskilled work. Are we going to have to go through the same nonsense in 10 years when Uber switches to an all-automated driving force? Or, are we going to start to talk about how best to provide for those left behind by the technological revolution without inane regulations that hamstring businesses that are trying to innovate?

Posted on: 2015/4/29 20:06

psyop

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#178

Home away from home

Joined:
2009/7/25 0:34
Last Login :
2021/9/21 23:51

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 401

My experience has always been much better than any cab I have taken in Jersey City. Last time I tried to call a cab it took calling 4 companies before one would even answer the phone and then they quoted $15 for about 10 blocks. Uber cars are going to vary in quality but I have never had one that was run down and they have all been really clean, some even offering bottles of water. The majority of JC cabs are disgusting inside and out.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 19:47

corybraiterman

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#177

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/7/3 5:49
Last Login :
2022/4/28 22:07

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1384

Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:

The fact is, ANYONE who has taken a JC cab and an Uber knows the difference is night and day. There is no question Uber is a far far superior option.

I'll buy superior, but "far" wouldn't describe my experience. the JC cabs at least at Grove st have been mostly decent. Uber (haven't used Lyft yet) makes things more convenient, however there's plenty of problems. Poor background checks, driver pay issues, and the fact that they actually are basically ignoring existing regulations simply because they use smartphones.

Uber has a place in the world. So do taxi companies. Personally, I simply wish taxi companies would start getting apps cobbled together.

But yea, it's not fair at all to regulate private companies, but have another ignore all of them simply because they use an app. And when the options are to either a) de-regulate or b) put in a set of parameters that the new company must abide by, i'll choose B every time.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 18:48

Re: UBER - car service in Jersey City

#176

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/4/2 11:56
Last Login :
2018/10/5 14:16

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 756

Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Uber is anything but the "bottom" of the hired car business in Jersey City. I don't even care that much about whether Uber costs less or more than the cabs in Jersey City. It's not even the horrific condition that so many cabs in Jersey City are in, or the fact that so many Jersey City cabdrivers refuse to turn on the meters and arbitrarily decide the fares. It's the fact that, when I need a cab in Jersey City - THERE ARE NONE AVAILABLE! You tell me what I'm supposed to do when it's pouring rain outside, I need a cab and there are none to be found.

Uber fills that void in Jersey City and to some extent in Hoboken. I find it unnecessary to use Uber when I'm in Manhattan. Unless the Jersey City cabdrivers want to get together and create an app of their own (apparently this was proposed in Hoboken some time ago and the cab businesses blew it off), I'll be using Uber whenever I need a cab within town.

?Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City, Jersey City?? Did you miss where I agree that taxis in JC suck, but how that it still doesn?t negate the consequences of certain business practices?

Consider the argument that companies like Uber?that reduce would-be employees to benefit-free private contractors who are now responsible for nearly all the costs of doing business?fit the definition of ?race to the bottom? very well. Uber isn?t the only company taking advantage of the world?s labor force in this manner, but they?re a good example.

Jcdevilsadvocate might call it ?efficiency,? but he might also lack empathy considering that he doesn?t even come close to addressing what the practice ultimately means for laborers.

Think beyond Jersey City and your own taxi rides. Think of the wider world and the ease at which we are sold on bad ideas by appealing to our selfish motives.

Or not.

Posted on: 2015/4/29 18:30