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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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I think Christie should give Peter his money, and not steal for Paul. The state would rescind the money for the toll hikes and then vote to properly fund the roads.

Posted on: 2011/1/12 19:01
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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At least hes trying to save money. Everything has been so out of control.

Posted on: 2011/1/12 18:57
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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What's disgusting is that the toll increase was meant to go to ARC in the first place. And this guy has the nerve to invoke "rob Peter to pay Paul?"

Seems like a proper use of the funds now, although I am one of those folks who feel that the tolls should be demolished entirely as they were supposed to have been in the 1960s.

Posted on: 2011/1/12 18:55
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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2 wrongs don't make a right.

Posted on: 2011/1/12 18:52
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

I have a serious problem with
funding that?s earmarked for one project being diverted to other
programs after the fact,? said Sen. Sacco.


Seriously? He has a problem with that? Where was he when my tax dollars intended to fund things like public schools, police and fire departments went to fund things like a football stadium and the defunct Xanadu entertainment complex?

Posted on: 2011/1/12 18:48
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Tell Christie to roll-back highways tolls if he not going to use the higher tolls for their intended purpose. How disingenoouis of Christie.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ocrats_propose_measu.html


enate Democrats propose measure to roll back toll increases intended to fund trans-Hudson tunnel
Published: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 7:02 PM Updated: Tuesday, January 11, 2011, 7:13 PM
The Jersey Journal By The Jersey Journal
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njo-turnpike.jpgStar-Ledger photoSenate Democrats introduce measure that would roll back pending toll increases.

New Jersey Senate Transportation Committee Chairman, Nicholas J. Sacco of North Bergen and Senate President Stephen M. Sweeney, both Democrats, introduced legislation today with the intent of rolling back pending increase in highway tolls intended to pay for the trans-Hudson tunnel halted by Republican Gov. Christie.

If approved, the measure will also prevent the governor from using toll increase revenues to replenish the state Transportation Trust Fund (TTF) used to finance highway and bridge projects.

In a press release, the Senate Democrats say drivers shouldn?t have to pay $1.25 billion in tolls that were to fund the Access to the Region?s Core tunnel. The proposed bill, S-2636, would direct the New Jersey Turnpike Authority to scale back toll increases on the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.

?It?s disingenuous for the governor to, on one hand, cancel the ARC
tunnel project, and on the other, continue the funding source for the
ARC tunnel into perpetuity to pay for his own transportation projects,?
said Sen. Sacco. ?When tolls were increased
along the Turnpike and Parkway in 2008, it was done so with the
understanding that the funds would go to pay for the ARC tunnel, a
transportation project designed specifically to alleviate congestion on
our roads and improve our mass transit infrastructure. When Gov.
Christie cancelled the ARC tunnel, he forfeited any right to those
increased toll funds.?

It was the Corzine administration that received approval to increase the cost of the average Turnpike trip by 50 cents in 2008 and by 90 cents in 2012. Most of the new toll revenue was dedicated to transportation projects and $1.25 billion was earmarked for the ARC tunnel.

?New Jerseyans are struggling with higher taxes, higher unemployment,
and a higher cost of living than surrounding states,? said Senate
President Sweeney, D-Gloucester, Cumberland and Salem. ?Whenever we
have the opportunity to make the Garden State a little more affordable
for the people we represent, we should take that opportunity ??

?I don?t think anyone questions the fact that New Jersey needs to find a
stable funding source for the TTF, but I have a serious problem with
funding that?s earmarked for one project being diverted to other
programs after the fact,? said Sen. Sacco. ?Governor Christie claims
he was able to find a funding solution for the TTF which does not
increase taxes or tolls, but he?s depending on a toll increase
instituted in 2008 and intended to fund a project designed specifically
to improve North Jersey?s road and rail transportation. If the
Governor?s plan to stabilize the TTF depends on toll increases, he
should make the case to the driving public himself, not rob Peter to pay
Paul.?

The bill will be considered by the Senate Transportation Committee.

Posted on: 2011/1/12 18:29
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

sepecat wrote:
Why are we still funding the PA? They invest it mostly in NY and we?re still paying for them? T


The state is not funding the Port Authority. The Port Authority is self sufficient based on user fees, tolls, and fares.

On average, the Port Authority invests in both New York and New Jersey equally.

Posted on: 2010/12/8 0:13
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Why are we still funding the PA? They invest it mostly in NY and we?re still paying for them? T

Posted on: 2010/12/7 23:43
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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My prediction:

Legal fees will run at least $2,000,000 and a settlement will be reached whereunder NJ will pay $170,000,000.

Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Gov to NY: 'Stop screwing with us'

Saturday, December 04, 2010

TRENTON - Gov. Chris Christie hopes New Jersey taxpayers won't have to repay any of the $271 million the federal government has demanded for a scrapped rail tunnel connecting the state and New York.

The governor also said yesterday that there is no way New Jersey will share the cost of replacing the Tappan Zee Bridge with New York.

Christie shot down a suggestion that the bridge be added to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, as New York Gov. David Paterson recently recommended.

"I can't make this any clearer to New York than this: Stop screwing with us," Christie said at a news conference in Trenton. "You're not going to come and pick our pockets. New Jersey's not going to permit it anymore."

Christie said the Tappan Zee was intentionally out of the Port Authority's jurisdiction so New York could keep all the toll revenue rather than split it with New Jersey. Now that the bridge needs $16 billion in repairs, New York is looking across the Hudson River to New Jersey, Christie said.

"You want to keep all the money to yourself, then you pay for the repairs by yourself - unlike the George Washington Bridge, unlike the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, where we share the toll revenue and we share the cost of maintenance," the governor said.

Christie this week approved the hiring of a high-powered Washington, D.C., law firm to wage the battle on the tunnel tab. The Patton Boggs firm will argue that other states have not been forced to return money for transit projects that have been stopped, Christie said. They'll also argue that the completed work has ongoing value.

Posted on: 2010/12/7 18:13
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Disabled train causes delays
Tuesday, December 07, 2010
SECAUCUS - A NJ Transit train headed to New York broke down yesterday along the busy Northeast Corridor, delaying trains and leaving rail riders waiting outside on platforms in the bitter cold.

NJ.com

Posted on: 2010/12/7 16:11
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Gov to NY: 'Stop screwing with us'

Saturday, December 04, 2010

TRENTON - Gov. Chris Christie hopes New Jersey taxpayers won't have to repay any of the $271 million the federal government has demanded for a scrapped rail tunnel connecting the state and New York.

The governor also said yesterday that there is no way New Jersey will share the cost of replacing the Tappan Zee Bridge with New York.

Christie shot down a suggestion that the bridge be added to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, as New York Gov. David Paterson recently recommended.

"I can't make this any clearer to New York than this: Stop screwing with us," Christie said at a news conference in Trenton. "You're not going to come and pick our pockets. New Jersey's not going to permit it anymore."

Christie said the Tappan Zee was intentionally out of the Port Authority's jurisdiction so New York could keep all the toll revenue rather than split it with New Jersey. Now that the bridge needs $16 billion in repairs, New York is looking across the Hudson River to New Jersey, Christie said.

"You want to keep all the money to yourself, then you pay for the repairs by yourself - unlike the George Washington Bridge, unlike the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, where we share the toll revenue and we share the cost of maintenance," the governor said.

Christie this week approved the hiring of a high-powered Washington, D.C., law firm to wage the battle on the tunnel tab. The Patton Boggs firm will argue that other states have not been forced to return money for transit projects that have been stopped, Christie said. They'll also argue that the completed work has ongoing value.

Posted on: 2010/12/7 15:29
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Amtrak: no interest in Hudson tunnel

Saturday, November 13, 2010

NEWARK - Amtrak said it is not interested in taking over the Hudson River commuter rail tunnel project that New Jersey's governor killed last month.

Amtrak spokesman Cliff Cole said the national railroad's primary focus is advancing a Northeast Corridor high-speed rail service and that it had "no interest in a partnership" with NJ Transit on reviving the tunnel project.

Earlier this week, Gov. Chris Christie told the editorial board of The Record newspaper that Amtrak was interested in engineering work and other plans NJ Transit had completed for the scrapped Hudson River rail tunnel. The governor killed the $8.7 billion tunnel from New Jersey to Manhattan because of potential cost overruns.

"Amtrak has already spoken to us about whether certain (aspects) of the engineering work and other (work) that was done already might be something that they could purchase from us as they begin to look to plan their tunnel for high-speed rail," Christie told the editorial board of The Record.

On Thursday, Amtrak released a statement saying it had no plans to purchase any NJ Transit work related to the project. It did say, however, that it was open to exploring ways to expand passenger rail capacity under the Hudson, provided NJ Transit would "fully fund all costs associated with creating additional commuter train capacity."

NJ Transit has questioned whether it was obligated to pay back the entire $271 million that it had gotten from the federal government for the now-dead tunnel project. On Wednesday, Christie said lawyers were looking into it and that the state won't pay "a nickel more than we think we have to."

On Wednesday, Christie also told The Record that his wife, a bond trader for Cantor Fitzerald, had a role in his decision to kill the project, which would have doubled the number of trains into Manhattan during peak hours.

"The lobbying to me on this one was from my wife, who spent 18 years commuting into New York City," he said. "She's like, 'So this thing's going 10 stories under Macy's ... and then I gotta go back up and I gotta walk over to Penn Station, I get on a subway ... This is crazy. This doesn't make any sense."'

However, under the plan that Christie killed, Mary Pat Christie would have had access to 10 local train lines and could have caught a train from the new station to her office at 59th Street and Park Avenue or to Wall Street.

Posted on: 2010/11/14 4:59
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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NJ Transit already rents platforms at Penn Station, the NEC rails and current tunnel access from Amtrak.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 20:14
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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And if Amtrack goes ahead then perhaps NJ Transit might really be lucky if that is all they owe.

=============================
http://ridgewood.patch.com/articles/a ... ver-killed-tunnel-project

http://ridgewood.patch.com/articles/c ... icially-buries-arc-tunnel

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/post_186.html
=================================

AP: Amtrak in Talks to Consider Taking Over Killed Tunnel Project

ARC tunnel project killed last month may be taken over by Amtrak, which was excluded from original plan. Plans as of now are 'exploratory,' officials say.

There may be new life to hopes that the cancelled tunnel from North Jersey to New York may still come to fruition. The Associated Press is reporting that transit giant Amtrak is developing exploratory plans to take over the ARC tunnel, which was cancelled by Governor Christie after concerns over billions of dollars in cost overruns.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 19:37
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Pretty standard part of federal allocations. You can't use allocations for projects that are not part of the grant, and you can't walk away from the project once you accept the money without repaying it.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 18:49
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Hmmm...

Feds want $271M from NJ Transit for tunnel

Associated Press

NEWARK, N.J., ? NJ Transit owes the federal government $271 million for the Hudson River rail tunnel that Gov. Chris Christie scrapped last month.

The Federal Transit Administration on Monday sent the railroad the bill, saying interest and penalty charges will be added.

The Record newspaper reported the FTA also said it would launch a "complete audit" of the Access to the Region's Core project to determine how much federal funds still have not been spent.

The $8.7 billion project to construct a rail tunnel between New Jersey and New York was 15 years in the making when Christie pulled the plug, citing cost overruns.

Officials aren't saying where NJ Transit will get the money to pay the bill.

Posted on: 2010/11/9 16:52
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Also to add to my previous post, since most public transportation methods are overwhelm, the government should help the ferry companies expand their services. We should invest in a bigger ferry terminal in JC, Hoboken, Wehawken, link it with our bus and light rail services, use bigger ferries than we have now (bigger than the ones they have in Staten Island), and subsidize the price of the fare. That would help relive overcrowding in the other services and would not cost so many billions of dollars.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 15:08

Edited by Webmaster on 2010/11/10 8:56:09
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

PBW wrote:
Quote:

JC_Man wrote:
why don't the feds, Port Authority, Amtrak, NYC, NY State kick in if this is such a great project. I'm not doubting the benefits of the project, but someone has to pay for it.


this is what I wonder every time I see it on the news.


Well it's because they know that the project will indeed have huge overruns, as most government contracts have. When government contracts are handed out, lowest bid wins. If your smart at shopping you know that if you buy a cheap quality part at a cheap price instead of a good quality part at a decent price, you will end up paying more for the cheap part since it will most likely need repair or fail all together after a short period of time. This project's real cost were hid when the contract was made. The contractors themselves knew it would go into serious overruns but since that would benefit them they wont complain about it. I am glad that this project was canceled, because what most likely would have happened was that the project would have gone into huge overruns, HUGE delays, and NJ's taxes would skyrocket even more than what they are rising now. Also this tunnel would of only help NYC since it would make it simpler for people to commute there. Hopefully now that the projects is dead it will force companies to relocate to Jersey City intead of NYC and bring more jobs and money to US, not NYC!

Posted on: 2010/11/7 14:56
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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For a big project like this, it is reasonable to expect the players haggling over who will pay what.

But what is the problem for NJ if cost overruns, if any, are not footed by the state of NJ? Again, I would like to see FACTUAL documentation related to these, and/or legal documentation stating NJ taxpayers being on the hook for these...

Without these, it looks like a pretty dumb lose-lose situation for the taxpayer, especially the hudson county resident.

Thanks for the clarification.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 14:39
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

JC_Man wrote:
why don't the feds, Port Authority, Amtrak, NYC, NY State kick in if this is such a great project. I'm not doubting the benefits of the project, but someone has to pay for it.


this is what I wonder every time I see it on the news.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 13:31
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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The Big Dig was indeed a Boston project where cost overruns had to be footed by that city. The issue is whether one can make the same comparison for the state of NJ for the proposed tunnel considering the nature of the project and the players at stake. Do you have factual documentation listing potential cost overruns for the tunnel and/or documents indicating that NJ state would be on the hook for these? That would certainly be helpful.. Same thing as for the potential benefit of cancelling that project on the transportation trust fund.
Thanks again.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 13:12
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Frinjc, yes see BOSTON - the Big Dig.

Posted on: 2010/11/7 2:33
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Can someone also explain to me how the cancellation of the project is affecting positively the transportation trust fund ?

Posted on: 2010/11/6 21:55
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Very interesting. JC_Man, do you have any factual documentation backing up cost overruns at this point?

If not this is a lose-lose situation for the taxpayer and independent voter I am.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 21:53
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

Frinjc wrote:

Question 1:
If I hear right about $600M have already been wasted on the ill-fated tunnel and the state is now on the hook for $350M for a total cost of $1B wasted funds ? Is that right ?


The state must pay back $350 million to the federal government; when they accepted the money, it was contingent on completing the project. NJ Transit also owns $47 million in property that was intended for the project.

Quote:

Question 2:
Assuming a $3B cost overrun for a project lasting about 10 years, it would have mean ~$300M/year for the state. Christie was not ready to go for this ?


Christie lied. He claimed the cost of the project would be closer to $15 billion, up from the budgeted $8.7 billion. Assemblyman Wisniewski placed an Open Public Records Act Request for documents relating to the cost overruns and budgeting of the project:

"the fact is the OPRA documents include reports dated July 30, Aug. 24 and Oct. 5," Wisniewski said. "All of the reports include the following statement:

'The overall project remains within budget.' "

source

Initial claims the that project was over budget were actually simply lies.

Quote:

Question 3:
Were these ~$300M/year guaranteed in fine by the federal government ?


When the project was first proposed, New Jersey would have been required to fund cost overruns. After Christie cancelled the project for the first time, Ray LaHood proposed several compromises including removing New Jersey's responsibility for ANY cost overruns, which according to the state's own documents did not yet even exist. However, none of LaHood's proposals included funding New Jersey's transportation trust fund, the actual sticking point behind the governor's decision.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 18:14
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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As an independent grounded in sciences and what I presume to be reasonable analytical skills, I find it quite distressful to witness the influence of redistricting on the language of public discourse, especially when it comes to the use of labels. Anyway..., could any of you gentlemen please answers my questions below, that would be very appreciated:

Question 1:
If I hear right about $600M have already been wasted on the ill-fated tunnel and the state is now on the hook for $350M for a total cost of $1B wasted funds ? Is that right ?

Question 2:
Assuming a $3B cost overrun for a project lasting about 10 years, it would have mean ~$300M/year for the state. Christie was not ready to go for this ?

Question 3:
Were these ~$300M/year guaranteed in fine by the federal government ?

Posted on: 2010/11/6 17:24
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

JC_Man wrote:
ianmac47 - are you a school teacher and/or union member? I thought so.


I think it should be obvious that my posts are far too articulate to be either.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 16:36
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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ianmac47 - are you a school teacher and/or union member? I thought so.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 15:06
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Re: Governor Christie halts new train tunnel into Manhattan due to cost overun
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Quote:

JC_Man wrote:
NJ residents, what are your senators doing to get $$ from the feds to revive this project - NADA!!! Meanwhile, Giillibrand and Schumer have their hands in the cookie jar already, getting money for NY state.

Don't blame Christie for killing this - he had no choice. Blame Lautenberg and Menendez for not doing their job. If the people of NJ would wake up already and make their elected officials work FOR the PEOPLE instead of the politicians working for their own self-interests, this project would have gone forward.

It's time to drain the swamp (as the soon to be retired Ms. Pelosi once eloquently stated) and get rid of these do-nothing but complain bums. Menendez and Lautenberg should have spoken up and done something BEFORE this became an issue, not afterwards.


Menendez and Lautenberg did their part; they got the money for the initial construction. They got an unusually high $3 billion. Christie had every choice in the world. New Jersey's contribution was already allocated. Christie lied about the project already being over budget. Christie lied about the projected cost overruns in the future. Lahood offered for the federal government to be responsible for cost overruns, meeting Christie's public demands that New Jersey not be on the hook for cost overruns, but he still cancelled the project. So do tell, how exactly is this not Christie's fault?

Christie told voters last year he was in favor of the ARC tunnel only because he wanted to win votes in Bergen, Passaic, Essex, and Hudson County. Christie wanted to use the $2.7 billion already allocated for the project to refill the transportation trust fund instead of raising tolls or raising the gas tax or cutting some other popular program. Christie never cared about whether or not New Jersey would be responsible for cost overruns, as the project at the time was not over budget nor were the overruns projected to be very high, and in the end, New Jersey wasn't even going to be responsible.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 14:51
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NJ residents, what are your senators doing to get $$ from the feds to revive this project - NADA!!! Meanwhile, Giillibrand and Schumer have their hands in the cookie jar already, getting money for NY state.

Don't blame Christie for killing this - he had no choice. Blame Lautenberg and Menendez for not doing their job. If the people of NJ would wake up already and make their elected officials work FOR the PEOPLE instead of the politicians working for their own self-interests, this project would have gone forward.

It's time to drain the swamp (as the soon to be retired Ms. Pelosi once eloquently stated) and get rid of these do-nothing but complain bums. Menendez and Lautenberg should have spoken up and done something BEFORE this became an issue, not afterwards.

Posted on: 2010/11/6 13:33
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