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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Quote:

JC_DowntownRegular wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
The trouble was you could not fit 5 engines on the street I was living on at the time so they wouldnt have been able to provide much assistance.


I'm not a structural firefighter, but to say that they wouldn't have been able to provide much assistance is a gross misstatement.

They provide additional manpower and can stretch additional hoselays. So it doesn't matter if they wouldn't have been able to fit on the street.

Also, when fighting a structure fire, they don't just fight it from one side (hence breaking a structure down to the A,B,C, and D sides). So if it is a corner house they can attack in from multiple sides easily, an unattached house they can attack from multiple sides easily, etc. It also depends on the type of structure - is it attached with a cockloft, is it a taxpayer, is it all wooden frame and materials, etc.

Just for comparison, a one alarm response from FDNY is

* 4 engines
* 3 ladders
* 2 battalion chiefs
* 1 rescue
* 1 squad
* 1 deputy chief
* 1 RAC unit


Minimal FDNY response is sent for the following conditions:
1 Engine
* brush fires
* outside rubbish fires
* downed wires
* residential refrigerant leaks
* CFR runs
* medical alert central station alarms
* other non-structural outside fires

1 Ladder
* water leaks
* downed trees/limbs blocking the street
* loose or hanging cornice
* stuck occupied elevators
* lock ins/outs
* other incidents where ladders or tools may be needed

1 Engine + 1 Ladder
* car fires
* struck pedestrian
* vehicle collisions
* elevated railroad ties (el ties)
* automatic alarms (CO, smoke, fire) in a private residence
* gasoline leaks on the street
* any other incident occurring on a street
* any incident where both units may be needed (i.e., stuck elevator with a injured passenger

In firefighting, we tend to send more resources. Unused resources can always be returned to quarters or rerouted to another incident.


Thank you for the details. The illustration that FDNY typically responds with one less engine shows that this is not an exact science. A few years ago I was living in JC in a three story building where the alarm would frequently go and 3 engines would come out. So obviously "Standard" response is under constant review (as it should be).

I am very grateful that brave men and women firefighters are prepared to risk their lives and I am also very relieved to know that the six firefighters that were injured in the Belmont Avenue fire are reported to be in "good" condition.

In the case that I am referring to 5 engines approached the "incident" from one side. The row house had an entrance from the wider street at the back (which is the side where the incident was) but no engines approached from that side. I do appreciate the manpower argument, however.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 18:22
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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I respect and am thankful for the great men and woman of our JC Fire Department but they WORK 1 DAY ON AND 3 DAYS OFF!!! To make 100K is absurd! They all have 2nd jobs as well. The bump after 6 years service is from 60K to 90+K.

So Chief, give us all a break and stop insulting our intelligence!

Take a pay cut and hire more firemen to keep all of us taxpayers safe.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 17:40
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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sinik wrote:
The trouble was you could not fit 5 engines on the street I was living on at the time so they wouldnt have been able to provide much assistance.


I'm not a structural firefighter, but to say that they wouldn't have been able to provide much assistance is a gross misstatement.

They provide additional manpower and can stretch additional hoselays. So it doesn't matter if they wouldn't have been able to fit on the street.

Also, when fighting a structure fire, they don't just fight it from one side (hence breaking a structure down to the A,B,C, and D sides). So if it is a corner house they can attack in from multiple sides easily, an unattached house they can attack from multiple sides easily, etc. It also depends on the type of structure - is it attached with a cockloft, is it a taxpayer, is it all wooden frame and materials, etc.

Just for comparison, a one alarm response from FDNY is

* 4 engines
* 3 ladders
* 2 battalion chiefs
* 1 rescue
* 1 squad
* 1 deputy chief
* 1 RAC unit


Minimal FDNY response is sent for the following conditions:
1 Engine
* brush fires
* outside rubbish fires
* downed wires
* residential refrigerant leaks
* CFR runs
* medical alert central station alarms
* other non-structural outside fires

1 Ladder
* water leaks
* downed trees/limbs blocking the street
* loose or hanging cornice
* stuck occupied elevators
* lock ins/outs
* other incidents where ladders or tools may be needed

1 Engine + 1 Ladder
* car fires
* struck pedestrian
* vehicle collisions
* elevated railroad ties (el ties)
* automatic alarms (CO, smoke, fire) in a private residence
* gasoline leaks on the street
* any other incident occurring on a street
* any incident where both units may be needed (i.e., stuck elevator with a injured passenger

In firefighting, we tend to send more resources. Unused resources can always be returned to quarters or rerouted to another incident.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:48
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Quote:

Snapple wrote:
Quote:

By July 1, the department will realize 82 retirements, thus reducing our salary budget by more than $8 million!


Quick math here.... 8 million divided by 82 equals approx $100k per position correct? Does that seem a little on the high side to anyone? I've been reading too many articles lately about cops, firemen, and teachers making over 100k in NJ. I wish I knew that before I pissed away all of that money on undergrad and grad school!


Please don't include teachers because plenty of them pissed a lot of money away in grad school too. And, yes, it does seem like a lot of money for a high school grad to make. But, to me, when you consider that they go into burning buildings and/or get shot at, it doesn't seem like that much money after all.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:46
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:42
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Police should be paid more than Firemen. To entice people to work dangerous jobs, they get a decent salary but a BETTER retirement package after serving say 20 or 25 years...thus, you have non employees being paid for numerous years at an early age. The retirement should be 30 years. I guess the public should see a flow chart (w base salary) of the JCPD leadership from top to bottom and see if there is too many chiefs and not enough indians. Lets have both parties (Fulop and the Chief) lay down their ideas in simple terms and evidence.

I do not buy that nobody would work as a police officer / firemen if it was not for the early retirement age/package. Just pay them well, give good benefits and vacation time, raise the number of years for retirement, encourage minimum 403b/457b contributions, and reduce the benefit package 25 percent.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:37
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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There was no damage, and no appreciable smoke or fire. Can not say what happened to the sausages.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:24
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Did the sausage survive?

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:21
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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jc344 wrote:
Standard response for a working fire is 5 engines 2 ladder companies, rescue1 and a battalion chief....

As you indicated it was just burning sausage on a grill.I would think that if you were going to question the response of the fd you might want to 1st look at the person who called that in.


If it's standard response, why would I question the person that called it in?

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:19
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Burning sausage on a grill creates smoke. A call with smoke showing creates a larger response. So the person that called it in could have said, "I smell fire AND see smoke."

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:16
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Of all the individuals and departments to rail against, the fire department seems like one of the last to go after. You know, since they actually do risk their lives every now and then.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:07
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Standard response for a working fire is 5 engines 2 ladder companies, rescue1 and a battalion chief. Now if the response seemed over the top since you stated your neighbor was burning sausage on the grill and it seemed excessive. Maybe the problem lies with the person that called the fire department for that . As you indicated it was just burning sausage on a grill.I would think that if you were going to question the response of the fd you might want to 1st look at the person who called that in. but then again ....... I guess you probably think the response to the fire on Belmont ave. was over the top too... EXplain that to the injured firefighters .... as well as to the families that were directly affected by the fire. Food for thought.....

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:01
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Quote:

icechute wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
Five engines responding to my neighbor burning the sausages on his barbecue seemed a little excessive to me but like councilman Fulop I am not a fire expert.


When a call comes in, there is a standard response that may seem over-the-top to you, but is a standard response procedure for most departments.

They err on the side of caution, which is something I for one am fine with.



This is all fine and I agree it is better to respond with too many engines than too few. The trouble was you could not fit 5 engines on the street I was living on at the time so they wouldnt have been able to provide much assistance. I have lived in other parts of the US and in densely populated areas in other countries where this response would be considered unusual.

I used to work in a multi-story building in another state with several hundreds of workers which contained chemical laboratories. There were frequent alarms and only one or two engines at most responded.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 15:01
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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This is obviously a gentleman that has a STRONG grip on budgeting and taxpayer impact. The 82 headcount reduction means nothing when the tax payer provides continued support of their pensions and health care.

I am not by any means defending the salaries... but you need to keep in mind - 30% of a salary for an individual in NJ is roughly health care and overhead - not money they get in their paycheck. Take that $100k per employee and make it $70k, which seems to be in the right ball park. Move the salary 10% either direction and I am sure you hit the actual salaries.

His rebuffs of Fulop's facts and sources are just awesome - I totally go to work every day and make big statements with words like 'safety' and 'jeopardy.' I am surprised he didn't drop 9/11 in there - it reminds me of the family guy episode when Lois run for mayor.

O'Reilly way to go - you really stuck it to Fulop.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:59
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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sinik wrote:
Five engines responding to my neighbor burning the sausages on his barbecue seemed a little excessive to me but like councilman Fulop I am not a fire expert.


When a call comes in, there is a standard response that may seem over-the-top to you, but is a standard response procedure for most departments.

They err on the side of caution, which is something I for one am fine with.

On the other hand, this is all too true:

Quote:
by Crazy_Chester on 2010/6/1 10:29:18 What fire expert did Healy consult when he called the JCFD "the best in the world"? These promotions are Jersey City's equivalent of the bailed-out banks paying bonuses.


Remember the old saying, "Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians"? Case in point.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:51
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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What fire expert did Healy consult when he called the JCFD "the best in the world"?

These promotions are Jersey City's equivalent of the bailed-out banks paying bonuses.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:29
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Glad to read that the person running the fire department is somebody with a cool head who doesn't react dis-proportionately to criticism. Five engines responding to my neighbor burning the sausages on his barbecue seemed a little excessive to me but like councilman Fulop I am not a fire expert.

It's a minor point but only the year 1980 was thirty years ago and only half of that.

Posted on: 2010/6/1 14:20
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Quote:

Snapple wrote:
Quote:

By July 1, the department will realize 82 retirements, thus reducing our salary budget by more than $8 million!


Quick math here.... 8 million divided by 82 equals approx $100k per position correct? Does that seem a little on the high side to anyone? I've been reading too many articles lately about cops, firemen, and teachers making over 100k in NJ. I wish I knew that before I pissed away all of that money on undergrad and grad school!


According to Salary.com Senior Engineer in Aerospace with a masters degree in this area code would make 81.5k/year...totally equal i am sure.

While I honor our real heroes which are the firemen and women of jersey city, this is not proportionate to our city budget. by the way many engineering jobs dont have close to the compensation packages that the city workers have. And while their salarys may be reducing the budget by 8 million what is their payout for sickleave, non used vacation days and pension?

Posted on: 2010/6/1 13:26
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Re: Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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Quote:

By July 1, the department will realize 82 retirements, thus reducing our salary budget by more than $8 million!


Quick math here.... 8 million divided by 82 equals approx $100k per position correct? Does that seem a little on the high side to anyone? I've been reading too many articles lately about cops, firemen, and teachers making over 100k in NJ. I wish I knew that before I pissed away all of that money on undergrad and grad school!

Posted on: 2010/6/1 12:59
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Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue
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(Letter to the editor -- The Jersey Journal)

Jersey City Fire Chief Michael O'Reilly, left, congratulates newly-promoted Battalion Chief Paul J. Drennan during the ceremony at City Hall, May 24. Looking on are Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy, center left, and Fire Director Armando Roman.
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Letter from fire chief: Mr. Fulop, you haven't a clue

Top Heavy!

Councilman Fulop, with all due respect, I have checked my roster and daily manpower status sheets and I cannot find any of these top-heavy positions you reference in your OPINION. "In the country" is quite a bold statement to make. I ask what fire consulting expert provided these facts.

It has become obvious that the Jersey City Fire Department has become the punching bag for all the "Fire Experts" to point fingers at, without any input or confirmation from the Fire Department itself. The Fire Department has not created the financial mess we are currently experiencing, and we sure as hell will not take the blame.

It is quite obvious your "Fire Expert" has failed to provide you with critical information regarding the number of retirements the department has experienced over the last fiscal year. By July 1, the department will realize 82 retirements, thus reducing our salary budget by more than $8 million! A reduction in manpower of 14 percent overall! Thousands, YES thousands of years of experience and leadership has retired from the department in one year. Leadership and discipline within the ranks of the department must be maintained. If not there would be chaos, and who would work for an organization with no direction or vision.

While I address your next concern about the Safety Officer, I will make a quote so there is NO misunderstanding about what I intend to convey. "I WILL NOT put the safety of my firefighters and officers, nor the citizens of Jersey City, in jeopardy for a few dollars. Secondly, you have no clue what you are talking about!" If you would like to have a dialogue, I will provide the needed information to enlighten you.

As your second point in the referenced article states, "in the 1980s." Really, the 1980s, that's 30 years ago, I think the city has grown somewhat in the last 30 years. Also, you address the advocacy of a high-rise fire fighting unit, and early proponent of the water vessel, largely covering the Downtown residential, financial district, and accompanying waterfront of the Hudson River. Last time I checked the Fire Department was responsible for providing fire protection for all six wards within the confines of Jersey City, not just Ward E.

In closing, the Fire Department has taken measures to maintain fire protection for the ENTIRE city, reduces costs, and maintain the level of service the taxpayers expect and deserve. If you have a reorganization plan from your "Fire Expert" I would be more than happy to discuss the plan with you or any other council member or members. I will seriously entertain any plan or suggestions to improve fire safety, streamline costs, maintain fire protection, and protect our citizens and property.

With that being said I will quote again: "If the plan is to turn the Jersey City Fire Department into a circus, hire a clown, as I will not jeopardize firefighter or public safety to appease soapbox finger pointing."

CHIEF MICHAEL J. O'REILLY
JERSEY CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT

Posted on: 2010/6/1 12:38
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