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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
By selling the bulk lien, that line was satisfied with the lien sale, not by taxpayers. So taxes got reduced. The state legislation had to be change in order for this to happened. Here is the downside, it allowed lien owners to aggressively foreclose sooner on properties.

Yeah... no.

The law did not change in a way that accelerated the time frame for foreclosures. What it did was give the city money up-front, and spared it the effort of foreclosing on tax delinquents.

You also ignored how it increased compliance from 78% to 99%.


Quote:
Many of those properties in that lien were small homeowners who couldnot pay their taxes from the revaluation.

So what?

Those homeowners were getting a big tax break for years, and had plenty of time to prepare and/or sell their homes long before any foreclosure proceedings.

And why did their taxes go up? Because the value of their property increased, far in excess of what the city estimated.

This is like someone winning $300,000 in the lottery, taking it all at once, spending it all in 6 months, and then finding out that they have to pay income tax on it.

I realize that life, law, taxes and real estate are complex. However, if you lost a $300,000 home because you didn't pay $10,000 in property taxes? 4 years after the reval? That's not the city's fault. If you own property, it is your responsibility to pay the taxes. If you can't afford the taxes, that sucks, but it's your responsibility to deal with it.

At some point, you have to take responsibility for your own mistakes.

I am also slightly disgusted that you have no sympathy whatsoever for the people who are overpaying their property taxes. Does no one face financial hardship because they're dealing with unfair property tax burdens?

Are you happy that families in Bergen-Lafayette and Greenville are paying your taxes? You good with that? That work for you?

It's not the reval that is unfair. It is the DELAYS in the reval that make the system unfair. What part of that is unclear to you?

Posted on: 5/25 16:06
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Brewster, Great info in Post #136. I knew Yvonne was blowing smoke, as usual, citing "people lost their homes" and "aggressive foreclosures" without a shred of proof or even direct citation. I was looking for the details on rights of the lien-holder vs. the property owner but you beat me to it. If you can't pay your bills, you sell and pay those bills, including back taxes/liens. It's simple unless you sit on your can and wait until the shit hits the fan and then it's too late. You snooze, you lose...

Yvonne, I'm actually glad the Webmaster didn't take down this thread even though Brewster called you out in some pretty harsh terms. I'm gonna guess that those of us who've been around this Forum for a bunch of years mostly agree with him. You can dish it out, often with a bunch of anecdotal comments or references, but you can't take it when someone fires back with facts. You need a reality check-

Posted on: 5/25 15:37
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brewster, I am not a mayor or councilperson in JC. Neither am I a state offical that has allowed JC to avoid a revaluation once the figures go below 15% of assessment. Attacking me for the fault of government makes no sense. I am stating what happened in 1988. Hopefully, this reval will go better, however, I still believe no revaluation will be fair as long as JC gives out tax abatements because those properties are not affected while the abatement exists.

Posted on: 5/25 15:24
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We all know it is unpopular and no sitting Mayor wanted this to be done on their watch.

Posted on: 5/25 14:25
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The main reason we have this traumatic reval now is you and people like you who created such terror around revals that revals became the 3rd rail of local politics. No one dared do one when they should have in 1998 and for 15 years after. And you're doing it again. You have no alternative to offer, you just want people scared. I have no idea why, except maybe it makes you feel powerful.

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Yvonne wrote:
It is not fearmongering, it is what happened after the 1988 revaluation. Some of these liens resulted in lawsuits. I mention earlier Judge Velasquez ruled on this, that story was in the Jersey Journal pre-online edition but I am sure you can find it in the archives. By the way, Newark was forced to do a reval some years later. They put in a 5 year step program based on the problems with JC.

Posted on: 5/25 14:20
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It is not fearmongering, it is what happened after the 1988 revaluation. Some of these liens resulted in lawsuits. I mention earlier Judge Velasquez ruled on this, that story was in the Jersey Journal pre-online edition but I am sure you can find it in the archives. By the way, Newark was forced to do a reval some years later. They put in a 5 year step program based on the problems with JC.

Posted on: 5/25 14:07
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Real information, not fearmongering. You have to really screw up to actually lose your home. It's designed to give you many opportunities to straighten the situation out. Bottom line, pay your taxes or sell your house, don't screw around.

http://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/dlgs/ ... ments_of_tax_sales_nj.pdf

Elements of Tax Sales in New Jersey
New Jersey law requires all 566 municipalities to hold at least one tax sale per year, if the municipality has delinquent
property taxes and/or municipal charges. You can obtain information on upcoming tax sales by contacting the tax
collector in the municipality in question, or from the web site of the Tax Collectors & Treasurers Association of New
Jersey: www.tctanj.org/taxsale.html. More detailed information on the tax sale process in New Jersey can be found at
www.njtaxlieninvestor.com*.

In New Jersey, property taxes are a continuous lien on the real estate. Property taxes are due in four installments
during the year: February 1, May 1, August 1, and November 1. Delinquency on a property may accrue interest at up
to 8 per cent for the first $1,500 due, and 18 per cent for any amount over $1,500. If the amount of delinquency on a
property exceeds $10,000 at the end of the municipal fiscal year, the municipality may charge up to a 6 per cent yearend
penalty.

At the tax sale, title to the delinquent property itself is not sold. What is sold is a tax sale certificate, a lien on the
property. Tax sale certificates can earn interest of up to 18 per cent, depending on the winning percentage bid at the
auction. At the auction, bidders bid down the interest rate that will be paid by the owner for continuing interest on the
certificate amount. If the interest is bid down to one per cent, then a “premium,” is bid starting at $0 to whenever the
bidding stops to obtain the tax sale certificate. The premium is kept on deposit with the municipality for up to five
years. If the tax sale certificate is not redeemed, or the property foreclosed upon within the five year period, then the
premium escheats to the municipality. No interest accrues on the premium to the benefit of the buyer of the tax sale
certificate.

The winning bidder is the one who bids the lowest percentage of interest or bids the highest premium. Bidders are
urged to contact the Tax Collector for local payment restrictions before the sale) At the close of the sale, the winning
bidder must immediately pay (pursuant to the local restrictions) the municipality the taxes and interest to date; in
exchange the municipality will provide the bidder the tax sale certificate. In order for the winning lien holder to protect
their interest in the tax sale certificate, it should be recorded in the Deed Room at the County Clerk’s Office within 90
days of the sale.

Taxes continue to accrue on the property after the sale of the certificate. Bidders have the option to pay these
subsequent taxes; if they are not paid, a tax sale certificate will be sold at the next tax sale. Any subsequent certificate
issued will be paramount to any prior certificate. Subsequent taxes paid by the lien holder earn interest at the rate set
by the municipality.

If the certificate is redeemed by the property owner prior to foreclosure, the certificate earns a redemption penalty at
the rate of 2, 4, or 6 percent, depending on the amount of the original tax sale certificate, in addition to any interest
rate on the certificate.

After two years, a lien holder can begin proceedings in Superior Court to foreclose on the property. If foreclosure is
perfected, then the name on the deed is changed to that of the lien holder who can then take possession of the
property.

This information is intended only as a short introduction to the tax sale process in New Jersey, and not as investment
advice. There is no substitute for learning as much about investing in tax sale certificates from the many sources
available, both online and in print. As with all investments, the investor must do his or her due diligence when
investing in tax sale certificates. Unlike more “passive” investments, like certificates of deposit, or stocks and bonds,
tax sale certificates require “active” follow up and management by the investor. By posting this notice, the State of
New Jersey neither recommends nor discourages investment in tax sale certificates, and makes no guarantee of profit
or positive result from such investment.

Posted on: 5/25 13:52
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Thanks for posting the NY Times article. Here is how Schundler lowered the tax rate with the bulk lien sale. In the budget is a line item that says "reserved for uncollected taxes." This is the amount of money taxpayers must put in for taxpayers who are delinquent. The year before bulk lien sale, taxpayers put in $36 million. By selling the bulk lien, that line was satisfied with the lien sale, not by taxpayers. So taxes got reduced. The state legislation had to be change in order for this to happened. Here is the downside, it allowed lien owners to aggressively foreclose sooner on properties. Many of those properties in that lien were small homeowners who couldnot pay their taxes from the revaluation. It is how homes assessed at $200,000 or $300,000 were sold for $10,000. Some were shady lien holders who did everything they could not to have liens redeemed.

Posted on: 5/25 11:03
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Yvonne wrote:
brewster, I do not speak to anyone that way you speak to me.


Believe it or not you are the only person on earth I speak to this way, because you are the pinnacle of loudmouthed, fearmongering, hatemongering, pious, self righteous hypocrisy. At least in JC. Your man in the White House may have you beat.

Posted on: 5/24 16:55
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Demand side of the equation is a wee bit stronger now than in the crack war days of the early 90s...

Posted on: 5/24 15:25
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2001 NYT article which discusses the bulk liens:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/19/nyr ... put-2=schundler+bulk+lien

Mr. Schundler prides himself on finding creative approaches to solving problems. And his earliest coup may stand up as his signal financial accomplishment. In the early 1990's, Jersey City property tax bills were so high that many people, unable to pay, were losing their homes to foreclosure. The city's tax collection rate fell so low at 78 percent that its budget was snowballing: it had to set aside as much money in each year's budget as was uncollected the year before.

Mr. Schundler broke that cycle.

After winning a special election in November 1992, Mr. Schundler, a former Wall Street broker and analyst, won a full term the following spring by promising a huge tax cut based on a bold, but complex idea. He found a way to recoup millions in back taxes the city had failed to collect. It took a special state law, which the Legislature's Republican leaders pushed through on his behalf.

The plan: Jersey City would bundle delinquent tax liens and sell them in bulk to underwriters, for $25 million in cash and a note for $19 million more. The underwriters would issue bonds, to be paid off as they collected back taxes or foreclosed on the properties.

It did not all go smoothly. Collections dragged out far longer than anticipated. Homeowners sued the underwriter, and in July were awarded $30 million in damages. Jersey City also sued the underwriters when its note went unpaid, and received a settlement of just $6.25 million.

Still, the bulk-lien deals dramatically improved the city's tax collections, as many property owners paid their taxes faster out of fear of foreclosure. For the last four years, the tax collection rate has been better than 99 percent. The city's reserve for uncollected taxes, meanwhile, is just $2.5 million, down from $25 million in 1993.

Henry A. Coleman, director of the Rutgers Center for Government Services, who studied the bulk lien sale, said Mr. Schundler brought many city properties back from tax delinquency. ''That's something he deserves credit for,'' he said.


Maybe that could happen again in the future, but... I sort of doubt it.

At any rate, it sounds like the foreclosures were happening before the liens, and people paid their taxes after the liens were sold.

Posted on: 5/24 15:11
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brewster wrote:
Yvonne, you are impenetrably dense. You lie to scare people and then try and cover it with meaningless anecdotes.

What's outrageous is that you've been doing this for 30 years. Mayors come and go but Yvonne is always there to terrify them out of ordering a reval. You might be as responsible as any politician for the current mess, and you've benefitted from it by hundreds of thousands of dollars between tax savings on your under assessed property and selling it for way more than it would be worth with an accurate assessment.



brewster, I do not speak to anyone that way you speak to me. I am giving you facts that happened. You don't agree and shame on you for making this personal. It is not personal with me except I saw neighbors, long time neighbors lose their homes. You have an anger mangement problem, I suggest help.

Posted on: 5/24 12:10
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Yvonne is the deep state of Jersey City

Posted on: 5/24 11:44
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Yvonne, you are impenetrably dense. You lie to scare people and then try and cover it with meaningless anecdotes.

What's outrageous is that you've been doing this for 30 years. Mayors come and go but Yvonne is always there to terrify them out of ordering a reval. You might be as responsible as any politician for the current mess, and you've benefitted from it by hundreds of thousands of dollars between tax savings on your under assessed property and selling it for way more than it would be worth with an accurate assessment.


Posted on: 5/24 11:38
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brewster wrote:
Yvonne, none of that anecdote substatiates your statement:

"former Mayor Schundler started his 'bunk lien' sale and sold homes assessed for $200,000 to $300,00 for the price of back taxes."

It's simply not true, and inflammatory. Homes under a tax liens are NOT sold for just the outstanding tax. Not now, not ever.

That's a LIE!!!

You're fearmongering as you've done for 30 years. A homeowner under lien can simply sell their home and walk away after paying their taxes. Only a fool, or someone with no equity anyway, will take the reduced sale price associated with the lien sale process.


Were you around? That is my question. You are not answering but keep yelling that I lie. The proof as they say will be in the pudding. There will be a fire sale of properties like there was in 1988. The one third that goes up will be heading to tax court, the reason the ratable base dropped from $6.5 after reval (it was $800 million before reval) to $5.1 by 1991. The tax appeals dropped the ratable base which caused taxes to rise. The first fire sale were developers who had many properties. A woman I work with brought a home on Varick, which was fully restored for $150,000 even though it was assessed for $250,000. By the way JC ratable base is now $6.2 billion. Some of Schundler's tax abatements expired. All tax abatements rob the city of ratables and forces taxes up.

Posted on: 5/24 8:56
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Yvonne, none of that anecdote substatiates your statement:

"former Mayor Schundler started his 'bunk lien' sale and sold homes assessed for $200,000 to $300,00 for the price of back taxes."

It's simply not true, and inflammatory. Homes under a tax liens are NOT sold for just the outstanding tax. Not now, not ever.

That's a LIE!!!

You're fearmongering as you've done for 30 years. A homeowner under lien can simply sell their home and walk away after paying their taxes. Only a fool, or someone with no equity anyway, will take the reduced sale price associated with the lien sale process.

Posted on: 5/23 23:10
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Depends on rates, if you assume your buyer is borrowing and has a fixed monthly nut in mind. $12k more in tax means $1k less in borrowing power. At 4.5% on a 30 yr, $1000 gets you $200k. So assuming the buyer has the extra downpayment, they're budget is $200k less than it was pre-reval.

Yvonne, prove what you're saying, otherwise it's more lies. Tax liens are sold at auction and the residual after taxes and loans are paid is returned to the owner.


Quite correct. So assuming $24K taxes at 1.9% taxes, the property would be at $1.26M. $200K reduction (because of increase in tax from 12 --> 24K) would be around 16% reduction in the property price or the new price would be $1.06M with new taxes around $20K @1.9%.

Quite circular. By the way, because of reduction of taxes from $24K to $20K gives you $4K to renovate the place!

So yeah, 15% decline assumption is around correct + $4K in your hand.

Posted on: 5/23 22:01
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Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?


Depends on rates, if you assume your buyer is borrowing and has a fixed monthly nut in mind. $12k more in tax means $1k less in borrowing power. At 4.5% on a 30 yr, $1000 gets you $200k. So assuming the buyer has the extra downpayment, they're budget is $200k less than it was pre-reval.

Yvonne, prove what you're saying, otherwise it's more lies. Tax liens are sold at auction and the residual after taxes and loans are paid is returned to the owner.


Were you around when the bulk lien was going on? I was, I had neighbors in the lien sale and the buyers of these liens did not want to sell back the liens. The way the law is written, you have two years to foreclose. A neighbor who lost his wife to cancer fell behind after reval, there was one salary then. He continued to pay his current taxes but the lien holder was avoiding him for the lien he brought. He was lucky that his nephew spent money to hire an attorney to sue to lien holder. Some of this actually wound up in Judge Velesquez court. I don't think the Jersey Journal was on line then, but I am sure this information is somewhere is the archives of the Jersey Journal. By the way, the lien holder was charging 18% plus other fees. I do not know why you insist you know everything. I was very involved in the reval with the people who was actually suing the city. The case was drop when McCann became mayor. But, you were not around in this inner circle.

Posted on: 5/23 22:01
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I remember when Jersey City was just a nice place to live.
Wha hoppen??

Posted on: 5/23 21:24
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Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?


Depends on rates, if you assume your buyer is borrowing and has a fixed monthly nut in mind. $12k more in tax means $1k less in borrowing power. At 4.5% on a 30 yr, $1000 gets you $200k. So assuming the buyer has the extra downpayment, they're budget is $200k less than it was pre-reval.

Or, it depends on demand.

Demand for properties in JC is high, and inventory is tight. Even extreme events like Sandy didn't make a dent in property values.


Quote:
Yvonne, prove what you're saying, otherwise it's more lies. Tax liens are sold at auction and the residual after taxes and loans are paid is returned to the owner.

Actually, Schundler did sell off the tax liens to an underwriter. It required state legislation to pass. There were issues with how it was handled, which make it rather unlikely that will be repeated.

What Yvonne doesn't mention is that despite the problems, it produced a 99% compliance rate.

She also doesn't recognize that thousands of homeowners are getting screwed; or that pushing back the revals makes the system unfair, which causes all the problems that she's crying about in the first place.

Posted on: 5/23 20:43
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heights wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?

I think psychology may play a bigger role than the calculator in that it is a tough sell to say you pay suburb level taxes without the good schools/safe streets/etc.

I hope they raise the taxes even higher so we can compete with the suburbs and hire more police. This is probably why most of the new development are rentals and not condos for sale.


No one is stopping you from contributing more to Jersey City. Last I checked the Police and fire departments were still taking donations.

Posted on: 5/23 19:46
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mfadam wrote:
Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?


Depends on rates, if you assume your buyer is borrowing and has a fixed monthly nut in mind. $12k more in tax means $1k less in borrowing power. At 4.5% on a 30 yr, $1000 gets you $200k. So assuming the buyer has the extra downpayment, they're budget is $200k less than it was pre-reval.

Yvonne, prove what you're saying, otherwise it's more lies. Tax liens are sold at auction and the residual after taxes and loans are paid is returned to the owner.

Posted on: 5/23 18:57
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mfadam wrote:
Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?

I think psychology may play a bigger role than the calculator in that it is a tough sell to say you pay suburb level taxes without the good schools/safe streets/etc.

I hope they raise the taxes even higher so we can compete with the suburbs and hire more police. This is probably why most of the new development are rentals and not condos for sale.

Posted on: 5/23 17:18
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After the last reval, home values went down and everyone ran to tax court. It took about 10 years before everything stabilize. That is when former Mayor Schundler started his 'bunk lien' sale and sold homes assessed for $200,000 to $300,00 for the price of back taxes.

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Let's say the typical DTJC rowhouse goes from about 12K in taxes to 24K - a simple double. What do you think that does to post-Reval valuations?

Maybe 15% haircut?

I think psychology may play a bigger role than the calculator in that it is a tough sell to say you pay suburb level taxes without the good schools/safe streets/etc.

Posted on: 5/23 16:51
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and overpriced


In direct correlation to being undertaxed.

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MDM wrote:
This is one of the more egregious examples of a building being under assessed:

Resized Image


And overpriced.

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tictaktoe wrote:
Those who are in DTJC and have been sitting on their property since last reval are the ones who are REALLY GETTING AWAY WITH IT so far.


Just want to point out it's anyone who owns one of those undertaxed properties, especially in the last 10 to 20 years when the undertaxing has been most extreme. The assessment does NOT get reset upon sale like it does in some places.

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wtf is wrong with people who feel reval is a suffering? Who here can't understand the difference between % and $$? Please enroll in a 5th-grade class.

1. As an individual, an avg DTJC resident who has been sitting on his/her property since last reval was getting away with paying lower than the fair share of taxes in light of their increasing property value even after paying the same rate (%).

2. As a neighborhood, DTJC was paying a higher share (in $$$) of state because there are a lot more residents with higher value now and also driven by recent transactions at current market value + not to forget new construction that has come up in the last 30 years on both rental and condo side (Yes, even after the abatement, $ amount becomes substantial for e.g. 1% of $1000 > 2% of $400)

What is common in the above two statements? Those who are in DTJC and have been sitting on their property since last reval are the ones who are REALLY GETTING AWAY WITH IT so far.

So they should STFU, pay up and everyone then starts from the same line. Simple.

If the taxes are too high, probably your home is too expensive for you to live in. Then, just sell it, monetize the gain and buy a place where you can pay the taxes.



Posted on: 5/23 10:29
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Dolomiti wrote:
Actually, I don't understand the mechanisms that they used to calculate current property tax rates in between the revals. Hence the question.


Ok, I covered this in the Ballad of Billy & Tommy, but I'll try again. The actual assessments never changes between revals unless you do significant renovations. So the city raises the tax rate to match the rise in value otherwise they'd never account for inflation. That's how the actual rate is 7.7% not ~2%.

So the way they come up with that 7.7% number is they create a number for the difference between the assessed value and FMV of THE ENTIRE CITY. That's the "ratio", currently 23.66%. The assessment is supposedly 23.66% of FMV, but that's a guesstimate of the average for the whole city. And because that tax raise is for everyone, it's not accurate, and it gets less accurate over time.

If your ratio is less you're paying too little, if it's more you're paying too much. So when DT rose so much faster than anyone else they ended up radically undertaxed because the only mechanism to steer this ship off the rocks is the reval.

And for those really interested, new properties have their assessment set by taking the sale price and dividing by the ratio to get a number in line with everyone else. So newer ratable properties and heavily renovated ones (supposedly) will not see dramatic tax raises. The "supposedly" is that a certain amount of permits like a gut job should trigger a spot reval, but anecdotes are that some do not.

Posted on: 5/22 20:53
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