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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

Are you saying you treat every species on earth the exact same? Careful now.

(I don't expect you to reply because you usually don't when you can't back up your arguments).


I was telling Monroe what "Speciesism" means. No, I don't treat all species the same -- just look at how I normally treat you.

Posted on: 2016/6/29 18:37
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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GrovePath wrote:
Speciesism involves the assignment of different values, rights, or special consideration to individuals solely on the basis of their species membership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

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Resized Image


Hey check out a great place! Click link below:

https://www.edgarsmission.org.au/


Are you saying you treat every species on earth the exact same? Careful now.

(I don't expect you to reply because you usually don't when you can't back up your arguments).

Posted on: 2016/6/29 13:01
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Sometimes, due to their overzealous attitude, some causes become self parodies. This is one such case.

Speciesism... What a joke.


Posted on: 2016/6/29 12:23
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Posted on: 2016/6/29 11:59
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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this thread is quite entertaining. WB fails to note that geese populations in "normal" circumstances are kept in check by predators. Those predators have been displaced over the years mainly by development/habitat loss. It's for this same reason that deer populations are out of control. Not sure that dying at the mouth of a predator is any better/worse than humans doing it.

Posted on: 2016/6/29 1:51
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Monroe wrote:
Is 'specieism' even a word?



Yes it is.

So is "dictionary."

Posted on: 2016/6/29 0:19
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Speciesism involves the assignment of different values, rights, or special consideration to individuals solely on the basis of their species membership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

Resized Image


Resized Image


Hey check out a great place! Click link below:

https://www.edgarsmission.org.au/

Posted on: 2016/6/28 23:56
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Is 'specieism' even a word?

Posted on: 2016/6/28 23:49
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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jcneighbor wrote:
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GrovePath wrote:
HA -- Concern for safety of the children is brought to you by the very same officials who thought firewalls were really not needed. Remember that!

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/20 ... ter_fire_with_report.html


Ridiculous post and off-thread.

Those geese are obnoxious and mean suckers, not to mention the mess they leave. From the "experts" on the topic:

"The state is home to one of the densest Canada geese population in the country, numbering at around 80,000 birds. The Atlantic Flyway Council, a waterfowl hunting management organization, recommends about half that number as a manageable level."



yeah. I'm an avowed animal-lover (heavily involved in rescue, even) and I cannot work up any interest about saving geese.

does this make me an animal racist?


Yes, it does make you an animal racist. And a phoney and a hypocrit.

You don't have to love or even like every creature but if you want to call yourself an animal lover, you DO have to be fair and ethical in how you deal with the realities of the problem concerning that animal.

For example, feral cats are a HUGE problem of a domestic, non-native animal, considered one of the top-ten vector detrimental animals that do not belong outdoors, responsible for the deaths of millions of birds and small mammals and shedding toxins in their droppings - yet no one would ever propose gassing them as they do geese, which are not harmful to anything. In fact, millions of dollars are spent on TNR programs and other humane ideas, despite the fact that feral cat populations are not declining but growing.

Interesting that you would do all this for cats but not for birds.
That is specieism.

Posted on: 2016/6/28 23:34
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

mastablasta wrote:
YUM!!!

Park Geese to Become Meals for Maryland Food Bank

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/nat ... -Food-Bank-384434061.html


I like the idea of converting an obnoxious pest into delicious food.


Then start with your own children.

Posted on: 2016/6/28 23:32
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

mastablasta wrote:
YUM!!!

Park Geese to Become Meals for Maryland Food Bank

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/nat ... -Food-Bank-384434061.html


I like the idea of converting an obnoxious pest into delicious food.


Then start with your own children.


Don't let these obnoxious jack asses get to you -- they will likely die in a hunting accident soon enough.

Posted on: 2016/6/28 23:20
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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GrovePath wrote:
So does anyone know if they gas the Canadian Geese in Liberty State Park? I met someone who thinks they might!


And your alternative solution is..?



Below is a link to an excellent comprehensive guide to successful lowering of Canada Goose populations and effective maintenance that intelligent communities are using to get their goose population under control. Killing will not do it - within a month of killing, you will have new geese coming in to take the place of the killed ones. At almost $6,000 per year, this is a colossal waste of your tax money.

A combination of 3 simple methods work best, and top of the list needs to be landscape modification. Edgewater has never done landscape mod.

Your town should also do egg-addling and I would also recommend Ovo Control - this is safe, pelleted bird birth control. Interestingly, it was developed in part by the USDA (and a company named Innolytics). Ovo Control-G is for geese (regular Ovo Control was developed for pigeons). Many golf courses use this, as well as resorts and communities. I often wonder why the USDA doesn't push this more, but they make a lot more money from their killing contracts (because they don't work, which means communities keep paying year after year for a method that guarantees repeat business.)



http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/p ... rs/canada_goose_guide.pdf



Your link was broken -- but I found it -- very good information! Click link below:
http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/p ... rs/canada_goose_guide.pdf

Posted on: 2016/6/28 14:44
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
New Jersey has a large Canada Goose population because the state insists on wasting its citizen's money on useless killing programs instead of effective non-lethal plans that have a better track record for the long haul.

Wildlife biology experts have learned over many years what works to reduce and limit geese, but the USDA seeks out communities in which the leadership and public knows little or nothing about geese and so they are easily talked into a lucrative killing contract which is basically long-term job security for the USDA, since killing doesn't work. And USDA's Wildlife Services killing division has been written up in many newspapers for its corruption and abuse of taxpayer money and excessive killing. In fact, the entire state of California recently cancelled all of its USDA contacts for those reasons.


Resized Image


Thanks for all the great info -- I hope someone from FLSP (Friends of Liberty State Park) read this thread -- it is a crime -- there are no Geese left in Liberty State Park today -- and it is so sad since they had babies! We need a Televised protest to happen there during the 4th of July fireworks!



Seriously, are you trolling us? Or, is this some sort of performance art piece??

Posted on: 2016/6/27 20:44
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
New Jersey has a large Canada Goose population because the state insists on wasting its citizen's money on useless killing programs instead of effective non-lethal plans that have a better track record for the long haul.

Wildlife biology experts have learned over many years what works to reduce and limit geese, but the USDA seeks out communities in which the leadership and public knows little or nothing about geese and so they are easily talked into a lucrative killing contract which is basically long-term job security for the USDA, since killing doesn't work. And USDA's Wildlife Services killing division has been written up in many newspapers for its corruption and abuse of taxpayer money and excessive killing. In fact, the entire state of California recently cancelled all of its USDA contacts for those reasons.


Resized Image


Thanks for all the great info -- I hope someone from FLSP (Friends of Liberty State Park) read this thread -- it is a crime -- there are no Geese left in Liberty State Park today -- and it is so sad since they had babies! We need a Televised protest to happen there during the 4th of July fireworks!


Posted on: 2016/6/27 20:21
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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mastablasta wrote:
YUM!!!

Park Geese to Become Meals for Maryland Food Bank

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/nat ... -Food-Bank-384434061.html


I like the idea of converting an obnoxious pest into delicious food.

Posted on: 2016/6/27 0:14
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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YUM!!!

Park Geese to Become Meals for Maryland Food Bank

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/nat ... -Food-Bank-384434061.html

Posted on: 2016/6/26 23:54
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
So does anyone know if they gas the Canadian Geese in Liberty State Park? I met someone who thinks they might!


And your alternative solution is..?




Below is a link to an excellent comprehensive guide to successful lowering of Canada Goose populations and effective maintenance that intelligent communities are using to get their goose population under control. Killing will not do it - within a month of killing, you will have new geese coming in to take the place of the killed ones. At almost $6,000 per year, this is a colossal waste of your tax money.

A combination of 3 simple methods work best, and top of the list needs to be landscape modification. Edgewater has never done landscape mod.

Your town should also do egg-addling and I would also recommend Ovo Control - this is safe, pelleted bird birth control. Interestingly, it was developed in part by the USDA (and a company named Innolytics). Ovo Control-G is for geese (regular Ovo Control was developed for pigeons). Many golf courses use this, as well as resorts and communities. I often wonder why the USDA doesn't push this more, but they make a lot more money from their killing contracts (because they don't work, which means communities keep paying year after year for a method that guarantees repeat business.)



http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/p ... rs/canada_goose_guide.pdf


Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:36
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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tern wrote:
There are far too many Canadian Geese around, there is no doubt they need reducing in this area.

Robin.


No one is saying that they don't require reducing. But clearly, killing for 4 years hasn't really solved the problem, whereas other communities that have addressed the problem by superior, humane methods HAVE resolved their goose problem very successfully.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:31
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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jcneighbor wrote:
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GrovePath wrote:
HA -- Concern for safety of the children is brought to you by the very same officials who thought firewalls were really not needed. Remember that!

http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/20 ... ter_fire_with_report.html


Ridiculous post and off-thread.

Those geese are obnoxious and mean suckers, not to mention the mess they leave. From the "experts" on the topic:

"The state is home to one of the densest Canada geese population in the country, numbering at around 80,000 birds. The Atlantic Flyway Council, a waterfowl hunting management organization, recommends about half that number as a manageable level."



yeah. I'm an avowed animal-lover (heavily involved in rescue, even) and I cannot work up any interest about saving geese.

does this make me an animal racist?



Yes, it does make you an animal racist. And a phoney and a hypocrit.

You don't have to love or even like every creature but if you want to call yourself an animal lover, you DO have to be fair and ethical in how you deal with the realities of the problem concerning that animal.

For example, feral cats are a HUGE problem of a domestic, non-native animal, considered one of the top-ten vector detrimental animals that do not belong outdoors, responsible for the deaths of millions of birds and small mammals and shedding toxins in their droppings - yet no one would ever propose gassing them as they do geese, which are not harmful to anything. In fact, millions of dollars are spent on TNR programs and other humane ideas, despite the fact that feral cat populations are not declining but growing.

Interesting that you would do all this for cats but not for birds.
That is specieism.


Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:27

Edited by WildlifeBiologist on 2016/6/26 20:43:57
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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GrovePath wrote:
Resized Image


Did you get all that?


I did. Your silly "protest" did nothing, and the world continues as it should.



Actually, the protests are focusing a lot of attention on Edgewater and not showing the town in a very good light. At the last protest, no geese were in the vicinity but the water was filthy with HUMAN trash and garbage floating in it.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:24
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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jerseymom wrote:
I spoke with one of the demonstrators by the Edgewater Target this weekend. His point was there are natural and non-lethal ways of controlling the goose population without culling with gas. He said the gas method was cruel and that the creatures lingered for some time suffering greatly prior to death.

He was all for controlling the population, but doing so with other methods that included - using dogs to chase animals (they learn not to go back to areas they are chased from); fining people who feed the geese; changing the environment by plantings that will create an inhospitable surrounding for geese; using noise to scare the geese; etc. (don't shoot the messenger, fellow 'listers. I'm just sharing what he told me).

If the animals must be culled, I don't know why it couldn't be done with at least a focus on using the meat to feed food banks, etc.


I won't shoot the messenger, but it's pretty obvious he's living in looney land. Anyone with common sense would recognize his alternative solutions won't do a thing to curb the population.

I agree it would be nice to do something good with the meat; maybe it just costs too much to process.


No, he's NOT living in Looney Land. He just knows what works, unlike you. This is what most progressive communities are doing after they get tired of throwing thousands of dollars down the toilet year after year for killing plans that don't work.

With regard to the charitable-sounding concept of donating the geese to feed the poor, please be aware that there is NOTHING charitable about this - it is merely a ploy government agencies use to get people behind the killing programs by attempting to justify it charitably. It is frankly anything BUT. The fact that it gets foisted off on the "poor" should be telling you something.

It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor. And that cost does not include federal inspection and testing for possible contaminants. If such testing is NOT performed, then the town is risking giving poor people unregulated and insufficiently inspected flesh. The poor community already has compromised immune systems and health issues and may not even be able to secure the medical care they need, should they become affected by eating the goose meat. Resident geese, especially if they are fed by the community, are not eating a natural diet (usually white bread, the WORST thing you can feed waterfowl, as it has no nutrition at all) and are not as healthy as a food as their wild counterparts; also, unless you really know how to prepare goose, it simply doesn't taste very good. There is no shortage of healthy food available to the poor and homeless - organizations, restaurants, companies and private individuals donate much better food all the time to food pantries and soup kitchens. What they need is more produce, not gooseflesh. Most reputable food pantries will not take goose meat for all of the above reasons.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:14
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:09
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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brewster wrote:
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.

Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:08
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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brewster wrote:
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:07
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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brewster wrote:
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:07
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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brewster wrote:
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WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:06
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
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Quote:

WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:06
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
#55
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.


Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 20:05
 Top 


Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
#54
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk


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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.



Sorry, but the monetary figures come direct from the slaughterhouse facilities and are exact and correct.

As for not sounding like an idiot, you might want to try taking your own advice.

Posted on: 2016/6/26 19:26
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Re: Please help stop Edgewater from Gassing the Canadian Geese! Protest tomorrow!
#53
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Quote:

WildlifeBiologist wrote:
It's really not cost-effective to feed the geese to the poor. In most towns that still do out-dated goose roundups, it generally costs around $10 per goose. It can cost another $10 to process each carcass at a slaughterhouse. So far we're talking $20 for less than a pound of goose meat. When chicken is $1 per pound, you don't need to be an economist to see that this is an exceedingly poor use of your tax dollars to feed the poor.


Maybe you should talk to an economist about your rithmetic. $20 per goose=/=$20 per lb. You should also learn to use the quote button and not spam the thread with 8 posts all within the time you could have edited one.

If you want people to listen to you don't sound like an idiot.

Posted on: 2016/6/25 16:16
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