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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Adonis wrote:
It's worth noting as well that the artists need somebody to buy their art. They need people to pay for tickets to their performances. In other words artists willingly attract the people with the disposable income necessary to fund their artistic endeavors. While the artists lament gentrification they are the direct cause of it via their desire to make a buck.


Well, sure. I don't think anyone argued that or implied that artists should get 100% of the credit.

But it's harder to create interesting art than to pay for it.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 20:50
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Simply put, that's a dumb article and doesn't deserve the credit of the back and forth banter. I'm sure the good people who live in Camden, Newark and Detroit wish their cities would stay the same for decades, no gentrification, horrible schools, crime, death etc. Why would you want things to improve for the better? The whole gentrification argument is getting old. Take a look at the history of several of the best cities all of us get to enjoy in our lifetimes and ask yourself if you think they were always so wonderful. Answer is, they weren't...so a certain level of gentrification did happen and you've directly benefited from it. Don't be a hypocrite.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 20:36
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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It's worth noting as well that the artists need somebody to buy their art. They need people to pay for tickets to their performances. In other words artists willingly attract the people with the disposable income necessary to fund their artistic endeavors. While the artists lament gentrification they are the direct cause of it via their desire to make a buck.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 20:29
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:


Artists aren't victims but they are a major catalyst to improving neighborhoods.


An artist rents a house on Ocean Ave and he cleans up the front yard, puts a few flower pots out there, but beyond that, what does an artist offer the neighborhood that any other decent human being with a corporate job does not?


Really? How about art, music and entertainment? Cities without this are usually pretty boring and less desirable.

Full disclosure: I'm not an artist

Posted on: 2016/3/9 20:23
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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eggzbenedict wrote:
If it was about "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION", how did this spike in development and increase in population not happen 20 yrs ago? Did JC just recently get closer to NYC?



One of the reasons is that large swaths of downtown JC were acquired by individuals who did not have the financial means or know-how to develop. When the land became more valuable, they obtained the financial means to develop by way of loans from banks. Before that they were just sitting on the property because they couldn't finance the development.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 20:01
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Voyeur wrote:
I'm just tired of reading opinion pieces about gentrification like the link provided by the OP which says JC is being "devastated by a sweeping gentrification crisis".


And before it was being devastated by a sweeping crisis of poverty. All these properties being renovated today would have been torn down within a few years since they hadn't been properly maintained in decades. No one was going to put that kind of money into them for the rents they were getting. You wouldn't believe the wrecks I've seen on the market.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 19:51
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Atsushi wrote:

Right, and the cycle starts all over again. I think that's the way it should be. Imagine a neighborhood in which the same people keep living for decades. That's not vibrant.


I agree with you. Just to clarify, I'm not advocating that gentrification is a bad thing. I recognize that it is a nuanced issue and that the rejuvenation of a down-at-heel area can also be a destructive process, with that destruction unavoidably falling hardest upon the people already living there, who are likely to be poorer and more like to be minority communities.

I'm just tired of reading opinion pieces about gentrification like the link provided by the OP which says JC is being "devastated by a sweeping gentrification crisis". I don't think anyone would refer to what is happening in this town as a "crisis" let alone a devastating one. I think most people would regard what is happening here as a net positive. I certainly do.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 19:36
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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eggzbenedict wrote:
If it was about "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION", how did this spike in development and increase in population not happen 20 yrs ago? Did JC just recently get closer to NYC?


Markets change, and these things follow a life cycle. It took 5 decades for SoHo to evolve from an industrial district to an arts enclave to a millionaire's row above a mall. The NYC market is not what it was 20 years ago, the current affluence has created far more pressure to move to a gentrifying area now. And there WAS pressure then, I remember NY Times articles with middle class people moaning about being priced out of Manhattan. I moved here 18 years ago, and I was by far not in the 1st wave.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 19:28
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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If it was about "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION", how did this spike in development and increase in population not happen 20 yrs ago? Did JC just recently get closer to NYC?


Posted on: 2016/3/9 19:16
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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1. Artists "discover" the neighborhood.
2. More artists move there for cheap rents, cheap restaurants.
3. This is the Golden Age, when the neighborhood is "urban, gritty, authentic, full of character" and populated by hardworking middle income folks with a real sense of community.
4. Hearing how cool and cheap the neighborhood is, professionals start to move in too. Rents rise, old cheap restaurants close, new expensive restaurants open.
5. The artists can't afford to live there anymore because they don't make any money from their hobby art. Instead of just admitting that, they lament that the neighborhood is no longer cool, its lost its "grittiness, authenticity, character". It's now full of yuppies and people who work in finance.
6. The local people who lived there for decades are forced to move.
7. The artists stand up in defiance to the gentrification juggernaut, speaking for the disenfranchised underclass, railing against the tide of bros and frat boys inundating the neighborhood.
8. Driven from the neighborhood, the artists "discover" a new town. Currently, its a drug-addled hellhole, but it is "gritty and authentic"


Right, and the cycle starts all over again. I think that's the way it should be. Imagine a neighborhood in which the same people keep living for decades. That's not vibrant.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 19:08
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:


Artists aren't victims but they are a major catalyst to improving neighborhoods.


I'm not sure I agree. This is the kind of perceived wisdom that I'm talking about - we all take it as a given that artists spruce up neighborhoods, but does that statement stand up to scrutiny?

An artist rents a house on Ocean Ave and he cleans up the front yard, puts a few flower pots out there, but beyond that, what does an artist offer the neighborhood that any other decent human being with a corporate job does not?

All the artists offers is a greater willingness to move to a depressed hood than a professional would have. And let's not kid ourselves - they move to these places not out of a sense of bravery, or civic responsibility, but out of economic necessity.

To Brewster's point, once other folks see that you won't get shot, that's when the migration begins in force. But just in case anyone is wondering, on Ocean Ave you will get shot. [/quote]

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:50
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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brewster wrote:
Self aggrandizing delusion in the very 1st line:

"Jersey City?s growth is largely owed to the allure of its artistic community."

Umm, LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION! Most of the JC immigrants of the last decade couldn't give a crap about the arts, they're here for a reasonably priced place to live close to Manhattan.


correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jersey City has been close to Manhattan (and reasonably-priced) for quite some time now.

as Voyeur pointed out, describing gentrification in almost every neighborhood, the artists made it hip.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:49
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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[quote]

Artists aren't victims but they are a major catalyst to improving neighborhoods.[quote]

I'm not sure I agree. This is the kind of perceived wisdom that I'm talking about - we all take it as a given that artists spruce up neighborhoods, but does that statement stand up to scrutiny?

An artist rents a house on Ocean Ave and he cleans up the front yard, puts a few flower pots out there, but beyond that, what does an artist offer the neighborhood that any other decent human being with a corporate job does not?

All the artists offers is a greater willingness to move to a depressed hood than a professional would have. And let's not kid ourselves - they move to these places not out of a sense of bravery, or civic responsibility, but out of economic necessity.

To Brewster's point, once other folks see that you won't get shot, that's when the migration begins in force. But just in case anyone is wondering, on Ocean Ave you will get shot.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:48
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Artists aren't victims but they are a major catalyst to improving neighborhoods.


Conceding that, it still doesn't make them the draw, just the probes that prove white people won't be instantly killed and/or raped. Personally, I prefer a low rent espresso at a spanish joint to a hipster "pour over" palace. And I'm one of those artist refugees.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:33
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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brewster wrote:
Self aggrandizing delusion in the very 1st line:

"Jersey City?s growth is largely owed to the allure of its artistic community."

Umm, LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION! Most of the JC immigrants of the last decade couldn't give a crap about the arts, they're here for a reasonably priced place to live close to Manhattan.


Yeah.... even the artists who live here are only here because of the proximity to Manhattan. I appreciate the effort that goes into keeping the local JC arts scene alive but aside from Mana Contemporary I honestly don't find any local events all that interesting and I live here. No one is moving to JC for the art or culture.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:26
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Voyeur wrote:
Why are the artists always the heroes in these stories? Artists are locusts, the vanguard that heralds the imminent arrival of the pestilential scourge of gentrification. But these stories never admit this fact. Instead, they all trot out the same tired narrative, in which the artists are victims rather than the instigators of the very process they rail against:

1. Artists "discover" the neighborhood.
2. More artists move there for cheap rents, cheap restaurants.
3. This is the Golden Age, when the neighborhood is "urban, gritty, authentic, full of character" and populated by hardworking middle income folks with a real sense of community.
4. Hearing how cool and cheap the neighborhood is, professionals start to move in too. Rents rise, old cheap restaurants close, new expensive restaurants open.
5. The artists can't afford to live there anymore because they don't make any money from their hobby art. Instead of just admitting that, they lament that the neighborhood is no longer cool, its lost its "grittiness, authenticity, character". It's now full of yuppies and people who work in finance.
6. The local people who lived there for decades are forced to move.
7. The artists stand up in defiance to the gentrification juggernaut, speaking for the disenfranchised underclass, railing against the tide of bros and frat boys inundating the neighborhood.
8. Driven from the neighborhood, the artists "discover" a new town. Currently, its a drug-addled hellhole, but it is "gritty and authentic"

Spare us the "artists are victims" crap. These are the sanctimonious douchebags that pretend to be the solution when they are the exact problem that they pretend to be fighting against.




Artists aren't victims but they are a major catalyst to improving neighborhoods.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:23
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Why are the artists always the heroes in these stories? Artists are locusts, the vanguard that heralds the imminent arrival of the pestilential scourge of gentrification. But these stories never admit this fact. Instead, they all trot out the same tired narrative, in which the artists are victims rather than the instigators of the very process they rail against:

1. Artists "discover" the neighborhood.
2. More artists move there for cheap rents, cheap restaurants.
3. This is the Golden Age, when the neighborhood is "urban, gritty, authentic, full of character" and populated by hardworking middle income folks with a real sense of community.
4. Hearing how cool and cheap the neighborhood is, professionals start to move in too. Rents rise, old cheap restaurants close, new expensive restaurants open.
5. The artists can't afford to live there anymore because they don't make any money from their hobby art. Instead of just admitting that, they lament that the neighborhood is no longer cool, its lost its "grittiness, authenticity, character". It's now full of yuppies and people who work in finance.
6. The local people who lived there for decades are forced to move.
7. The artists stand up in defiance to the gentrification juggernaut, speaking for the disenfranchised underclass, railing against the tide of bros and frat boys inundating the neighborhood.
8. Driven from the neighborhood, the artists "discover" a new town. Currently, its a drug-addled hellhole, but it is "gritty and authentic"

Spare us the "artists are victims" crap. These are the sanctimonious douchebags that pretend to be the solution when they are the exact problem that they pretend to be fighting against.



Posted on: 2016/3/9 18:18
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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brewster wrote:
Self aggrandizing delusion in the very 1st line:

"Jersey City?s growth is largely owed to the allure of its artistic community."

Umm, LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION! Most of the JC immigrants of the last decade couldn't give a crap about the arts, they're here for a reasonably priced place to live close to Manhattan.
i like visiting williamsburg every so often, but i wouldn't want to live there....and imo, billyburg is so overhyped.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 12:07
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Re: the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Self aggrandizing delusion in the very 1st line:

"Jersey City?s growth is largely owed to the allure of its artistic community."

Umm, LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION! Most of the JC immigrants of the last decade couldn't give a crap about the arts, they're here for a reasonably priced place to live close to Manhattan.

Posted on: 2016/3/9 3:57
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the "new Williamsburg"? or worse?
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Posted on: 2016/3/9 3:26
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