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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


You obviously don't have a clue as to how property taxes are levied. NO ONE is paying an effective rate of 7.5%. Please stay out of the conversation, lest you confuse people even more.


As usual Yvonne is confusing people, but this time with the technically correct rate but wrong arithmetic. As I posted several pages back, in 2015 the official rate was 7.482%, and the effective rate 2.216%. The official rate is on the assessed value, not market value.

And the Hoboken info is correct, their general rate is 1.497. $350k x 1.497%=$5239.5

Posted on: 2016/4/16 3:41
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


You obviously don't have a clue as to how property taxes are levied. NO ONE is paying an effective rate of 7.5%. Please stay out of the conversation, lest you confuse people even more.


It is obvious you do not receive a tax bill, the municipal, school, county, library, and open space is listed on the tax bill. The difference it is listed in hundreds, but most people use thousands. I go through the taxes every year with the Business Administrator. $75.00 was last year's rate. The county did not strike the rate yet. By the way, I did not see you at the last budget hearing.


Please show us PROOF that someone (anyone!) is paying an effective rate of 7.5%. You are a crazy loon. By your logic, million dollar brownstones would pay 75K in yearly taxes. OBVIOUSLY, that is not the case.

Please, I beg you, stay out of the conversation. You are spewing even more nonsense than usual.

Posted on: 2016/4/16 3:40
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


You obviously don't have a clue as to how property taxes are levied. NO ONE is paying an effective rate of 7.5%. Please stay out of the conversation, lest you confuse people even more.


It is obvious you do not receive a tax bill, the municipal, school, county, library, and open space is listed on the tax bill. The difference it is listed in hundreds, but most people use thousands. I go through the taxes every year with the Business Administrator. $75.00 was last year's rate. The county did not strike the rate yet. By the way, I did not see you at the last budget hearing.

Posted on: 2016/4/16 0:07
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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jcgurl wrote:
Yes, upon doing further research (i.e.: talking to my dad who is the mayor of a small town in New York and who has overseen 2 property revals), from what I understand, they are not seeking to raise substantially more taxes but simply redistribute them fairly. The city will still be collecting the same gross amount of taxes more or less, but if they collect $2000 more per year from me, they will be collecting $2000 a year less from another property owner (to oversimplify). Therefore, I'm supposing that my tax bill isn't going to triple as I had assumed. Right now I'm paying $5000+ a year on a property worth about $600,000 but only assessed at $73,000. (Thanks GrovePath for the link!)

Please feel free to correct or confirm this train of thought. I am still quite nervous.


Start saving. Your taxes will double.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 23:57
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


You obviously don't have a clue as to how property taxes are levied. NO ONE is paying an effective rate of 7.5%. Please stay out of the conversation, lest you confuse people even more.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 23:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


No.


I read this on Hoboken 411.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 22:39
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.


No.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 22:08
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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jcgurl wrote:
Yes, upon doing further research (i.e.: talking to my dad who is the mayor of a small town in New York and who has overseen 2 property revals), from what I understand, they are not seeking to raise substantially more taxes but simply redistribute them fairly. The city will still be collecting the same gross amount of taxes more or less, but if they collect $2000 more per year from me, they will be collecting $2000 a year less from another property owner (to oversimplify). Therefore, I'm supposing that my tax bill isn't going to triple as I had assumed. Right now I'm paying $5000+ a year on a property worth about $600,000 but only assessed at $73,000. (Thanks GrovePath for the link!)

Please feel free to correct or confirm this train of thought. I am still quite nervous.


Yes, it's basically redistribution. 2.216% (JC 2015 effective tax rate) of 600k is $13296 so double and a half. On the other hand, my 230k property assessed at 94k paying 7k taxes should reduce to ~5k. The ~2k reduction for me and 3 neighbors would "balance out" your 7-8k increase (a slightly more detailed version of oversimplification).

I attended a property tax info session in March and the presenting attorney said, obviously people file appeals to reduce their taxes. (I'm hoping to get my 2k this year and have it not be changed too much.) But he said, once he came across a case where someone who didn't like/was angry with/etc. his/her neighbor had filed an appeal to increase the neighbor's taxes!

Posted on: 2016/4/15 21:50
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Please see the following 2 sample properties and draw your own conclusions and opinions about what's fair and what's not. Seeing these figures, I can certainly understand the anger and disappointment shown in the Jersey City Together video

Sample 1:
212 8th St., Downtown:
2-family brick row house, 3 stories + basement.
sold in Aug. 2015 to our Australian friends (Dixon) for $1,420,000. I've seen the inside when it was listed, no upgrades or renovations (dixon buys to renovate)
taxes: 11,522
effective tax rate: 0.811%
http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... 610105____00024_________M


Sample 2:
224 Neptune Ave., Greenville (off Kennedy, not too bad):
single family on 12.45x100
sold in 2011 for $161,000
taxes: $5,013
effective tax rate: 3.114%
http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin ... 629203____00009_________M



Posted on: 2016/4/15 21:46
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People are forgetting the tax rate will drop, now it is around $75.00 per thousand. A home assessed at $100,000 is paying $7,500. The tax rate will drop. I believe Hoboken tax rate was low. I do remember reading homes that were assessed at $350,000 were paying around $6,000 after their 2013 reval.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 21:43
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bunny22 wrote:
They'll probably more than double. What 2.1 percent of $600,000? I'm curious how accurate these appraisals will be. Are they going to come in at an exaggerated number or do they go off of Zillow sales comps plus condition of the house?


You don't understand how it works. Educate yourself. Thanks.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 21:38
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They'll probably more than double. What 2.1 percent of $600,000? I'm curious how accurate these appraisals will be. Are they going to come in at an exaggerated number or do they go off of Zillow sales comps plus condition of the house?

Posted on: 2016/4/15 21:20
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Yes, upon doing further research (i.e.: talking to my dad who is the mayor of a small town in New York and who has overseen 2 property revals), from what I understand, they are not seeking to raise substantially more taxes but simply redistribute them fairly. The city will still be collecting the same gross amount of taxes more or less, but if they collect $2000 more per year from me, they will be collecting $2000 a year less from another property owner (to oversimplify). Therefore, I'm supposing that my tax bill isn't going to triple as I had assumed. Right now I'm paying $5000+ a year on a property worth about $600,000 but only assessed at $73,000. (Thanks GrovePath for the link!)

Please feel free to correct or confirm this train of thought. I am still quite nervous.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 20:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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DanL wrote: enough squandering of tax payer money on bogus lawsuits. jersey city now must pay $1m plus interest and legal fees, eat the whole cost of the now worthless reval, eat the city's own legal expenses of over $300,000 and now go out and hire another reval company to start over. we now will have a tax increase. thank you jersey city council members for funding this fiasco. Quote:
Stringer wrote:

Judge rules against Jersey City in reval contract case

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal 
Email the author | Follow on Twitter 
on April 14, 2016 at 4:12 PM, updated April 14, 2016 at 5:45 PM

JERSEY CITY ? Jersey City has lost the breach-of-contract case filed by the assessment firm hired in 2011 to oversee the long-stalled citywide property revaulation, with the judge presiding over the case using the decision to slam Jersey City's "unfair" tax system.

Hudson County Superior Court Judge Francis B. Schultz ruled this afternoon that the city showed bad faith when Mayor Steve Fulop stopped the reval in 2013 and ordered the city not to pay West New York firm Realty Appraisal Co. the remainder of its $3.2 million contract.

The city must pay the firm $984,511 plus interest and attorney's fees dating to Realty Appraisal's October 2015 settlement offer, Schultz ruled.

Read more: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ty_in_reval_contract.html

"...Fulop also announced today that his administration will appeal yesterday's ruling in the breach-of-contract case Realty Appraisal Co. filed after Fulop in 2013 halted the citywide reval the firm was hired in 2011 to oversee." Source - NJ.com

Posted on: 2016/4/15 17:58
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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it has to be done. I wish the city and administration would get in front of it and help homeowners to be proactive and educate them on different options depending on the impact including what has been suggested below.



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bodhipooh wrote:
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neverleft wrote:
Jersey City says it will move forward with property revaluation

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on April 15, 2016 at 12:14 PM, updated April 15, 2016 at 12:23 PM

Jersey City, here comes the reval.

One day after the city lost a breach-of-contract case related to the long-stalled property revaluation, and nearly two weeks after New Jersey tax officials ordered the city to get a reval done by November 2017, the city announced it is moving ahead with the process.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _r.html#incart_river_home


I guess it finally became obvious to City Hall that this was a losing battle. And, what's with the insistence that revaluations are going to result on old timers losing their homes?!? If a longtime homeowner is unable to afford his tax bill that means they are sitting on a property that has appreciated a LOT. In that case, they could borrow against their appreciation, or could take out a reverse mortgage, or they could sell. They have OPTIONS. Nobody is losing their home, and no boogeyman is coming to take anyone's home away. More importantly, this situation would be avoided, or ameliorated, by conducting revals regularly and frequently, as required by law.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 17:52
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The city must follow up every 5 years to stop the effects of long revaluations. It will also stop tax abated properties from running to tax court when their abatements expire. They are at 100% and the rest of the city is not. Taxpayers are always floating bonds to refund tax abated buildings. A shorter span between revaluations will stop that. This will save taxpayers money.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 17:50
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neverleft wrote:
Jersey City says it will move forward with property revaluation

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on April 15, 2016 at 12:14 PM, updated April 15, 2016 at 12:23 PM

Jersey City, here comes the reval.

One day after the city lost a breach-of-contract case related to the long-stalled property revaluation, and nearly two weeks after New Jersey tax officials ordered the city to get a reval done by November 2017, the city announced it is moving ahead with the process.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _r.html#incart_river_home


I guess it finally became obvious to City Hall that this was a losing battle. And, what's with the insistence that revaluations are going to result on old timers losing their homes?!? If a longtime homeowner is unable to afford his tax bill that means they are sitting on a property that has appreciated a LOT. In that case, they could borrow against their appreciation, or could take out a reverse mortgage, or they could sell. They have OPTIONS. Nobody is losing their home, and no boogeyman is coming to take anyone's home away. More importantly, this situation would be avoided, or ameliorated, by conducting revals regularly and frequently, as required by law.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 17:29
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Jersey City says it will move forward with property revaluation

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on April 15, 2016 at 12:14 PM, updated April 15, 2016 at 12:23 PM

Jersey City, here comes the reval.

One day after the city lost a breach-of-contract case related to the long-stalled property revaluation, and nearly two weeks after New Jersey tax officials ordered the city to get a reval done by November 2017, the city announced it is moving ahead with the process.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _r.html#incart_river_home

Posted on: 2016/4/15 16:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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thor800 wrote:
Do properties in greenville really pay $6k in taxes on a $150k value property ? Hard to imagune these were ever valued highly enough even at a 1% rate to warrant that.


When I was house hunting, I saw one in Greenville at around 200k with over 7k taxes. I ended up buying about 15% higher (West Bergen according to Google) with about the same taxes.

Example of disparity with downtown: My assessed value is 77% of the AV of where I used to live (rent) downtown, yet my market value is only 20%ish (in other words the downtown property is now worth 5x as much vs. 30 years ago it was only 30% more).

25% would be a fair reduction for me, but there was no telling when the reval would actually happen and even then it would probably take a few years...so in the meantime, attorneys get to make money doing appeals for people.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 15:59
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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You're lumping the east side of the Heights with downtown. Wow. I must have missed something and I've been in the heights for over a decade. "Mod Cup" and "Dark Side of the Moo" and a nice farmer's market don't change the hood that much. The mayor lives on Ogden with a view of the city--that street has always been a gentrified island in this area. I doubt very much that my place is worth $700,000 or more.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 13:45
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thor800 wrote:
Do properties in greenville really pay $6k in taxes on a $150k value property ? Hard to imagune these were ever valued highly enough even at a 1% rate to warrant that.


Sigh. You may find it hard to imagine, but there are MANY properties in Greenville and BeLa paying effective tax rates of 3 and 4 percent. You can take a a very quick and brief look at the Zillow listings for recent sales and the taxes being paid on those properties and this becomes readily apparent.

It's not that the houses were so highly valued at some point as to warrant those high taxes, the matter is that the houses are assumed to have appreciated at a much higher rate than they have. That's what causes the disparity in property tax rates. This has been explained over and over in this thread.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 12:56
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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As a reminder and to clarify the 'effective rates' see
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/lpt/taxrate.shtml
and click "Hudson County".

Posted on: 2016/4/15 11:58
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JJ comment:

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Where has the Hudson County Taxation Board been since 1988? This is the first time I have seen a piece about their non-action.

nj.com 11/19/2015: "The Division of Taxation is reluctantly taking this action because the Hudson, Middlesex and Union county tax boards have failed to do what they are supposed to do," Treasury spokesman Joe Perone said. "The state has been more than patient in trying to convince the county tax boards to meet obligations, but they have been lax in enforcement because revaluations are unpopular."


Posted on: 2016/4/15 11:19
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Of course we need a revaluation.

I remember the first mayoral candidate's debate I went to. It was for the 2001 election succeeding Schundler. Pat O'Melia asked the candidates about their position on a reval. It was already well overdue back then, and every candidate dodged it, either explicitly refusing to do it or saying stuff like "if we have to do it, it would have to be fair." (well gee, that's profound).

I cannot remember any candidate EVER saying they would do a reval, though Healy finally did it so that it would be concluded after the election.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 3:58
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Didnt healy start the reval in his last year of office ?

Hardly something that an incoming administration should have to inherit.

Do properties in greenville really pay $6k in taxes on a $150k value property ? Hard to imagune these were ever valued highly enough even at a 1% rate to warrant that.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 3:06
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hero69 wrote:
wouldn't it be fairer if nj cities were allowed to move away from relying on property taxes, and started relyimg more on sales and personal income taxes.


That's pretty much an econ dissertation level question. My take is that property tax is the only "wealth tax" we have, because you can't offshore your property wealth. It seems to me a wealth tax is a very desirable tax, rather than a sales, consumption or VAT tax, since once you're past a certain point of wealth, you can't consume it, you just move it around from one form to another and place to place. What if we only taxed your equity and not the value? I imagine there would be all sorts of perverse incentives as an outcome.

Income tax captures the window between those who don't make enough to pay it, and those who pay capital gains instead, if they pay anything after the the accountants get done. Besides, what would you do about someone owning a houses in 5 cities. They can't all tax their income, can they? Maybe JC doesn't have enough millionaires to make this argument applicable, but you have to look for consistency. What about the huge number of corporate owned properties?

All in all, the tax on property values looks kinda simple, and hard to screw with, as long as you DO THE FUCKING REVALS.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 2:44
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135jc wrote:
Yes it exists in downtown but downtown has all the new construction so far. These properties are assessed much closer to their true value. Once the revale occurs the building with abatements will actually be getting a true discount compared to other properties


You're pretty incoherent, but it doesn't matter. The reval is about fairness within the tax base, what's outside is irrelevant. The abated properties pay PILOTS that were set relative to what the tax would have been under the assessment system, not relative to the under assessed older properties.
wouldn't it be fairer if nj cities were allowed to move away from relying on property taxes, and started relyimg more on sales and personal income taxes.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 1:55
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
It's official. The city lost it's case.Link


Best quote from the judge:
"The evidence in this trial is clear and convincing," the judge said. "The city simply does not want a revaluation. Period."


OBVIOUSLY, the judge presiding over the case has a deep hatred for Fulop, hence his ruling.

Posted on: 2016/4/15 1:35
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Quote:

DanL wrote:

enough squandering of tax payer money on bogus lawsuits. jersey city now must pay $1m plus interest and legal fees, eat the whole cost of the now worthless reval, eat the city's own legal expenses of over $300,000 and now go out and hire another reval company to start over.

we now will have a tax increase.

thank you jersey city council members for funding this fiasco.


Not to mention all the councilmembers who failed to represent the interests of their non DT constituents.

Can't wait to see Fulop field this one in a gubernatorial debate: "Mayor Fulop, can you explain why you squandered millions of your citizens dollars to cancel a revaluation already a decade and a half late, and perpetuating the tax inequity of the wealthiest ward being subsidized by the working class areas of your city?"


He can just pull a Hillary:

It's all part of a vast right-wing conspiracy! Those guys just hate me, don't listen to any of it!

Posted on: 2016/4/15 0:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quote:

heights wrote:
If When the reval does take place the mayor's property tax will double if the assessment is based on the property value of his purchase price.


I fixed that for you. :)

Posted on: 2016/4/14 23:37
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