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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
What will be telling is what happens when Sears, and likely JC Penny and Pay Half are gone.

My prediction is that a Nordstrom or a Nordstrom Rack moves in...maybe a Lord & Taylor if there are two closures.


+1 One can hope!!

Posted on: 3/19 15:57
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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The mall should stay. It has an important function. Judging by the places opening there as of late like Teavana and Michael Kors, the mall is a lucrative enterprise. DTJC residents shouldn't have to do all their shopping in the city.

I agree on the parking garage- why it was there, but it makes sense to change it now.

I would do street retail on Marin and then bump the garage up and make it so it's only above and/or behind the retail.

What will be telling is what happens when Sears, and likely JC Penny and Pay Half are gone.

My prediction is that a Nordstrom or a Nordstrom Rack moves in...maybe a Lord & Taylor if there are two closures.

Posted on: 3/19 15:08
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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What they said. I'll also add the crime element. The residential neighborhoods west and southwest of Marin Blvd weren't necessarily filled with the most savory of characters.

Posted on: 3/13 13:06
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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[quote]
Br6dR wrote:
Why did it make sense then but not now?

[quote]


Back when I first moved into the area, Newport had a few towers, the mall, and not much else. The area was still mostly remnants of its past: Rail yards light towers, trash heaps, crumbling piers. I remember when you couldn't even dry from one end of Washington st. to the other because an elevated railroad right of way cut off the road.

The idea from my understanding is that Newport would take advantage of the lower sales tax rates and attract a lot of people who would drive there (which it did). A big parking garage was then important.

Posted on: 3/13 12:22
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Maybe you never saw JC in the 80s? If you had, you'd know why it made sense. That area was a post-industrial wasteland, and Newport seemed like a crazy idea. Walling it off from the rest of the its surroundings didn't seem strange at all.

Posted on: 3/13 12:20
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Why did it make sense then but not now?

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tommyc_37 wrote:
While today the huge mall parking structure makes absolutely no sense, in the 80s it made a lot of sense. I totally get that, but I cannot wait until it, along with the Metro Plaza Shoprite area, is repurposed in an urban manner. It's pretty ridiculous how "suburbanly" that area is developed.

Posted on: 3/13 12:14
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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While today the huge mall parking structure makes absolutely no sense, in the 80s it made a lot of sense. I totally get that, but I cannot wait until it, along with the Metro Plaza Shoprite area, is repurposed in an urban manner. It's pretty ridiculous how "suburbanly" that area is developed.

Posted on: 3/13 11:44
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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brewster wrote:
My wife and I had an argument when I said redeveloping suburban Metro Plaza (BJ's, BB&B & SR) would be insanely lucrative for it's owner. She thought the cashflow from the stores must be tremendous. My opinion was not as much as acres of tall towers, and those big boxes are designed for short lifespans anyway. I read Walmarts are designed for 15 years, and then to be abandoned.


They can always put the big-box stores back in the bases on the new towers. Plenty of places like that in Manhattan. There are plans to do exactly that with BJs and Shoprite, though they're just tentative/long run. I'd guess within a decade those will start being torn down, though.

Posted on: 3/13 10:52
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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hero69 wrote:
i was walking down marin/newport mall and noticed how much space the garage occupies? why don't they put the garage underground and build apartments/parks on the space


The first level of the parking garage was flooded during Sandy


Posted on: 3/13 10:47
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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brewster wrote:
My wife and I had an argument when I said redeveloping suburban Metro Plaza (BJ's, BB&B & SR) would be insanely lucrative for it's owner. She thought the cashflow from the stores must be tremendous. My opinion was not as much as acres of tall towers, and those big boxes are designed for short lifespans anyway. I read Walmarts are designed for 15 years, and then to be abandoned.

The Walmart in Saddle Brook has been opened for over 20 years maybe more.

Posted on: 3/13 8:21
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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Funny that this topic was posted. I got bored recently and came up with an idea to repurpose the land of the parking lot and better integrate Hamilton Park with the PATH/Waterfront via the mall. Keep in mind this idea disregards financials, legalities, temporary conveniences, etc. Just having some fun. Check out the link below, along with some descriptions:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/105326907@N06/12996339583/

Step 1 is to demolish the parking lot except for the BLACK section. I would keep this area for mall parking, and perhaps build another level or two to not lose too many spaces.

As you can see in the BLUE area, both 9th and 8th street would now run past Marin and flow into their respective mall entrances. The idea would be both streets "continue" into the mall, improving the walk from Hamiton Park into the mall itself. No more creepy garage jaunts.

I envisioned the GREEN area as an open plaza. Maybe some parkland, fountain, sculptures, etc. It would obviously look more inviting to people walking on Marin and serve as a proper entrance to the mall.

YELLOW could be reserved for a retail/commercial combination, again with the idea being that it is inviting from the street.

ORANGE, the current location of PayHalf, would also be converted into some sort of open plaza that filters nicely to the light rail station. Right now, you have to walk through weird walkways in the mall to get to the lightrail... which is not only inconvenient but places a main light rail stop on an ugly street with no foot traffic.

Lastly, the RED, which is currently the indoor walkway that connects to Washington Blvd. should be designed to be more appealing. As it stands right now, it is very cold. I envision an art alley. It would be great to bring in elements from the outside, and create some sort of walkway area, like those near Rockefeller Center.

Ultimately, the idea is to improve flow between the neighborhoods without having to demolish the mall. A tough obstacle to climb would be altering the parking garage, which would lead to overflow and congestion on the surrounding streets.

However, we live in a city, and a gigantic parking garage as the centerpiece of a main drag in town doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Hopefully the additional levels, as well as encouragement to guests and employees to use the light rail, would help alleviate the situation.

Anyway - I just did this for fun and wanted to share. Curious to hear what anyone thinks.

Posted on: 3/12 22:36
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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ahab wrote:
In the arsenal of architectural exclusion, Newport's parking garage was a weapon.

It whispered to people (and still does) to back-off. Call it Newport's cement and iron curtain, protecting '80s high-rise investors from the transitional neighborhoods to the west.

It is vulgar to all senses. Especially sight and smell.

How long will we live with this '80s vestige of fear and exclusion?

I walk through this turd nearly every day, you can guess how I feel about it.


All you say is true, except the whispering part. It's as subtle as a barbed wire. I remember a longtime HP resident describing the fight by locals to get the entrances included from Marin to access the mall and PATH. Seriously, they weren't in the plan.

Posted on: 3/12 21:19
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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In the arsenal of architectural exclusion, Newport's parking garage was a weapon.

It whispered to people (and still does) to back-off. Call it Newport's cement and iron curtain, protecting '80s high-rise investors from the transitional neighborhoods to the west.

It is vulgar to all senses. Especially sight and smell.

How long will we live with this '80s vestige of fear and exclusion?

I walk through this turd nearly every day, you can guess how I feel about it.

Posted on: 3/12 20:46
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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My wife and I had an argument when I said redeveloping suburban Metro Plaza (BJ's, BB&B & SR) would be insanely lucrative for it's owner. She thought the cashflow from the stores must be tremendous. My opinion was not as much as acres of tall towers, and those big boxes are designed for short lifespans anyway. I read Walmarts are designed for 15 years, and then to be abandoned.

Posted on: 3/12 19:01
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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well, they should keep the mall imo. I like it and its convenient but just do something about the garage along marin - its an eyesore

Posted on: 3/12 18:59
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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Conformist wrote:
They didn't put it underground because, when the mall was built, the entire area was completely abandoned and empty. There was literally nothing. Plus, it was the 1980s, and no one was thinking about the urban fabric.

There are long-term plans that contemplate tearing down Newport Mall and replacing it with better urban structures. Realistically, though, that won't happen at least until LeFrak has finished building out the rest of Newport. I'm also not sure when Simon Malls' contract to run the mall expires, but that may not be for a long time yet. 2025 would be a good guesstimate for when the mall is torn down.

It will happen eventually--the financial incentives to building denser on that plot are too strong--but not any time particularly soon.


Right on the money, a friend that worked in that mall in the late 90's early 00's said he can not believe how much the neighborhood has changed.

Posted on: 3/12 18:37
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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They didn't put it underground because, when the mall was built, the entire area was completely abandoned and empty. There was literally nothing. Plus, it was the 1980s, and no one was thinking about the urban fabric.

There are long-term plans that contemplate tearing down Newport Mall and replacing it with better urban structures. Realistically, though, that won't happen at least until LeFrak has finished building out the rest of Newport. I'm also not sure when Simon Malls' contract to run the mall expires, but that may not be for a long time yet. 2025 would be a good guesstimate for when the mall is torn down.

It will happen eventually--the financial incentives to building denser on that plot are too strong--but not any time particularly soon.

Posted on: 3/12 18:24
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Re: newport mall and increased densification
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I am sure cost was a factor.

Plus given the area is basically filled in marsh, there is a flood risk with an underground garage.

Posted on: 3/12 15:11
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newport mall and increased densification
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i was walking down marin/newport mall and noticed how much space the garage occupies? why don't they put the garage underground and build apartments/parks on the space

Posted on: 3/12 14:59
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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CdeCoincy wrote:
Same thing at Bloodbath and Beyond in Chelsea and Lincoln Center.

As far as TJ being to small, maybe they just take one floor.


That's what I was thinking. If a TJ or a Wegman's were to open there, as a resident of Ham Park, I'd be there all the time.

Posted on: 1/31 16:26
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Same thing at Bloodbath and Beyond in Chelsea and Lincoln Center.

As far as TJ being too small, maybe they just take one floor.

This would also free up Metro Plaza if BBB went into one of the spaces and BJ's moved to a more appropriate location for a big box like Hudson Mall area. This is like consolidating my spice rack, but only with buildings.

Posted on: 1/31 16:13

Edited by CdeCoincy on 2014/1/31 16:34:21
Reason: spelling mistake
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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CdeCoincy wrote:

Maybe we need to think outside the shopping cart - perhaps a conveyor belt/dumb waiter that brings your sacs to three or four pickup points on each floor of the parking ramp. Come on you engineers and techies, eat something organic and start thinking of solutions, not problems.


Years ago I was in a shopping mall in Singapore that included a grocery store. From each level there was moving ramp (think of the people movers at Newark Airport.. but taking you from one floor to another.

When you rolled your cart on to the ramp, electromagnets in the ramp would clamp the shopping cart down so it couldn't roll. The magnets would release once you reached the next floor.


They have something similar to this at the Trader Joes at 72nd and Broadway in Manhattan.

Posted on: 1/31 13:46
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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CdeCoincy wrote:

Maybe we need to think outside the shopping cart - perhaps a conveyor belt/dumb waiter that brings your sacs to three or four pickup points on each floor of the parking ramp. Come on you engineers and techies, eat something organic and start thinking of solutions, not problems.


Years ago I was in a shopping mall in Singapore that included a grocery store. From each level there was moving ramp (think of the people movers at Newark Airport.. but taking you from one floor to another.

When you rolled your cart on to the ramp, electromagnets in the ramp would clamp the shopping cart down so it couldn't roll. The magnets would release once you reached the next floor.

Posted on: 1/31 13:38
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Plenty of downtowners shop at the mall. You can see it and you can see it by the stores in the mall. Do you think it's people from Greenville and BL shopping at Michael Kors and Teavana? Maybe it's people from Hoboken and NYC but I'm a downtowner proud to shop there. The organic kale set can go waste their money in NYC for all I care. The mall is here to stay.

I agree it should be marketed better to NYC folks and tourists looking for deals.

And I too wondered about Sears and JCPenny. I always figured Lord & Taylor and maybe a Nordstrom Rack but a supermarket is an interesting thought.

Trader Joe's is too small for those spots...they might actually fit in Pay/Half which is also soon to be on its way out in my estimation. But Wegmans, considering its hot food selection and variety (and if they do a liquor store too) would do very, very well there.

Posted on: 1/31 13:17
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MidwestTransplant wrote:
They certainly exist, but they're generally indicative of a failing mall. Given how thin the operating margins for grocery stores tend to be, they really can't afford to pay much more than a few dollars / SF. If the mall's doing well, they're generally able to make a few extra dollars / SF renting to a traditional anchor tenant.

Whole Foods is not a typical example.

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CdeCoincy wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a supermarket inside a regional mall? Curious, because I haven't and wonder why.

Someone pointed out that Sears is on death row. JCP might not be far behind. With all the parking, why not a TJ and/or a WF?



Before whole foods was in that mall in paramus that place was just about dead. Waaay deader then newport.

Posted on: 1/30 18:26
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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They certainly exist, but they're generally indicative of a failing mall. Given how thin the operating margins for grocery stores tend to be, they really can't afford to pay much more than a few dollars / SF. If the mall's doing well, they're generally able to make a few extra dollars / SF renting to a traditional anchor tenant.

Whole Foods is not a typical example.

Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a supermarket inside a regional mall? Curious, because I haven't and wonder why.

Someone pointed out that Sears is on death row. JCP might not be far behind. With all the parking, why not a TJ and/or a WF?


Posted on: 1/30 18:22
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Quote:

CdeCoincy wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a supermarket inside a regional mall? Curious, because I haven't and wonder why.

Someone pointed out that Sears is on death row. JCP might not be far behind. With all the parking, why not a TJ and/or a WF?



I was thinking the same thing. Sears could potentially work, as there are doors that lead into the parking lot, but as someone pointed out, maneuvering carts and cars around the garage might not be the easiest task.

There is a whole foods at the bergen mall in paramus and constantly has people coming in and out.


Maybe we need to think outside the shopping cart - perhaps a conveyor belt/dumb waiter that brings your sacs to three or four pickup points on each floor of the parking ramp. Come on you engineers and techies, eat something organic and start thinking of solutions, not problems.

Posted on: 1/30 16:41
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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CdeCoincy wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a supermarket inside a regional mall? Curious, because I haven't and wonder why.

Someone pointed out that Sears is on death row. JCP might not be far behind. With all the parking, why not a TJ and/or a WF?



I was thinking the same thing. Sears could potentially work, as there are doors that lead into the parking lot, but as someone pointed out, maneuvering carts and cars around the garage might not be the easiest task.

There is a whole foods at the bergen mall in paramus and constantly has people coming in and out.

Posted on: 1/30 8:58
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Re: Future of Newport Mall
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Whole Foods and Fairway markets in Paramus are in malls. In Princeton Wegman's is in a huge mall.[/quote]

How would shopping carts work with the multi-level parking garage at Newport?

Posted on: 1/30 8:49
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CdeCoincy wrote:
Has anyone ever seen a supermarket inside a regional mall? Curious, because I haven't and wonder why.

Someone pointed out that Sears is on death row. JCP might not be far behind. With all the parking, why not a TJ and/or a WF?



Whole Foods and Fairway markets in Paramus are in malls. In Princeton Wegman's is in a huge mall.

Posted on: 1/30 8:47
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