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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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the Newport-Grove Street-Jersey City Heights area


umm, that's three areas and only one can be considered downtown.

Newport
Grove Street
And the Heights

I love when New Yorkers write articles about JC - "you know, that one place across the Hudson - wtf?"

Posted on: 2012/10/20 20:53
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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Between 2000 and 2010, the Census Bureau reported last month, the population within a two-mile radius of City Hall ballooned by nearly 40,000 people.

A separate analysis for the Downtown Alliance, a coalition of property owners, released on Friday, concluded that neighborhoods in Manhattan, Brooklyn and New Jersey within a 30-minute commute of downtown experienced an increase in the population of young, educated workers.

Already, the number of creative and professional workers (in fields like advertising, media, arts, finance, insurance and real estate) in neighborhoods 30 minutes or less from downtown outnumber those workers who live on Long Island, in Westchester County and in other parts of the Hudson Valley and southern Connecticut, the analysis concluded.

The biggest gains among those workers were in two areas — the Newport-Grove Street-Jersey City Heights area on the New Jersey waterfront and Williamsburg and Greenpoint in Brooklyn, each of which had an increase of more than 10,000 residents.


In an around lower Manhattan, population growth since 9/11

Posted on: 2012/10/20 11:26
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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vindication15 wrote:
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user1111 wrote: I think condos are a bad investment in JC, for many reasons, and many people are starting to realize it, One reason not to invest in condos IMO is they’re more volatile than single-family houses. They don’t appreciate as well and when things get bad, they tend to crash a lot further. Also, condos tend to attract single people or just couples, not families. Which means most will move in 3 years which is typical of downtown renters and condo owners. Let’s not forget about the pain-in-the-butt condo association either. They seem to increase the dues every year and you’re always getting a notice in the mail regarding some violation about your door not being painted the correct shade of red. BS at its best, if you were able to buy a condo in JC in the 90's that was the best time to buy a condo, I got mine for 30k dwntwn JC and sold it for over 200k but to buy one now it just does not make sense.... but this is just my opinion. So many downtown folks are under water and owe much more than what they are worth. Good Luck to you all. I prefer single family homes, and I don't think any home in JC is worth more than 300k anything more than that I would live elsewhere like Milburn.


I don't think any real estate investment is a bad move. :)


Whoa, any? Take it easy there. Like any other financial transaction, it's all about value and your purchase price. You can't make blanket statements like that.

Posted on: 2012/9/29 3:46
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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Values are up in DTJC and are getting close (not there yet) to levels before the crash. I'm in mortgages and I've seen values increasing for past clients since I've done multiple appraisals for them. The townhouse market is also very tight right now with virtually no inventory.


Agreed, real estate prices are once again very expensive in JC. Hoping the foreclosure sign offs will bring prices down a little in the near future.

Posted on: 2012/9/29 3:21
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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user1111 wrote: I think condos are a bad investment in JC, for many reasons, and many people are starting to realize it, One reason not to invest in condos IMO is they’re more volatile than single-family houses. They don’t appreciate as well and when things get bad, they tend to crash a lot further. Also, condos tend to attract single people or just couples, not families. Which means most will move in 3 years which is typical of downtown renters and condo owners. Let’s not forget about the pain-in-the-butt condo association either. They seem to increase the dues every year and you’re always getting a notice in the mail regarding some violation about your door not being painted the correct shade of red. BS at its best, if you were able to buy a condo in JC in the 90's that was the best time to buy a condo, I got mine for 30k dwntwn JC and sold it for over 200k but to buy one now it just does not make sense.... but this is just my opinion. So many downtown folks are under water and owe much more than what they are worth. Good Luck to you all. I prefer single family homes, and I don't think any home in JC is worth more than 300k anything more than that I would live elsewhere like Milburn.


I don't think any real estate investment is a bad move. It all depends on how long you are willing to keep the investment to make a good enough return.

The population is growing, not contracting, and people will always need places to live. People who thought this was true in the 90s before the crash are still correct. What they got wrong was the rate of appreciation (and the whole mess with MBS) but the primary concept is still correct.

Now, some regions will see appreciations faster than others. So a property in DTJC will appreciate much quicker than one in camden nj. In 40 years, however, you'll see that property in camden appreciate too.

As for condos in DTJC, condo living is for those who want to say hi to their neighbors but now argue over fencing. For those who want a nice grass area, but not be involved in maintaining it. For those who don't want to carry trash all the way to the curb. There are plenty of benefits of condo living.

But user, those with condos in DTJC may see slower appreciation in their units than single family homes in DTJC, that I agree with you, but they will see a much greater appreciation than even mansions in some not so desirable areas of JC, let's just say Greenville for example. :)

Posted on: 2012/9/28 20:44
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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Values are up in DTJC and are getting close (not there yet) to levels before the crash. I'm in mortgages and I've seen values increasing for past clients since I've done multiple appraisals for them. The townhouse market is also very tight right now with virtually no inventory.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 19:34
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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Somehow I think that China, Vietnam and eventually perhaps Africa will do a lot to tame inflation. These places have cheap labor.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 19:27
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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I think condos are a bad investment in JC, for many reasons, and many people are starting to realize it,
One reason not to invest in condos IMO is they’re more volatile than single-family houses. They don’t appreciate as well and when things get bad, they tend to crash a lot further. Also, condos tend to attract single people or just couples, not families. Which means most will move in 3 years which is typical of downtown renters and condo owners.

Let’s not forget about the pain-in-the-butt condo association either. They seem to increase the dues every year and you’re always getting a notice in the mail regarding some violation about your door not being painted the correct shade of red. BS at its best, if you were able to buy a condo in JC in the 90's that was the best time to buy a condo, I got mine for 30k dwntwn JC and sold it for over 200k but to buy one now it just does not make sense.... but this is just my opinion. So many downtown folks are under water and owe much more than what they are worth. Good Luck to you all. I prefer single family homes, and I don't think any home in JC is worth more than 300k anything more than that I would live elsewhere like Milburn.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 19:24
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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FWIW, that particular property is a short sale in Clermont Cove, one of the rare buildings without an abatement.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 19:14
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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someguyinjc wrote:
For what it's worth, I have been experiencing exactly what some others have already described on this thread during my house hunting expeditions of late--limited inventory and abundant buyer interest.


IMHO, a lot of this demand is being propped up by artificially low interest rates courtesy of the Federal Reserve. The latest action, the Fed is purchasing billions in real estate securities.

If at some point we get growth all this liquidity created by the Fed will create inflation (1970's style or worse). The Fed will have to do what it did in the early 1980's: send interest rates to the moon or let the dollar get destroyed. Real estate was affordable (if you were the few buying) in 1982 and again in the mid 90's (when a typical mortgage rate was over 8%). I bought in 1997. Adjusting for inflation, I paid about $114k for a 2-family (2011 $).

If it is cheaper for you to rent.. then rent. We have QEIII doing damage and have likely slipped back into recession. At some point, the government support for the real estate sector will end. When it goes, a lot of people won't be able to afford to buy or hold on to the homes they have. There will be a lot of deals via foreclosure.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 19:13
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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regardless of it being 1 or multiple properties, your hand picked property or properties do not show an overall trend regardless of what you think.

It's like walking out the door in summer one day, noticing that it is 50 degrees F and saying, omg global warming doesn't exist.

Just think about it....

Posted on: 2012/9/28 18:35
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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vindication15 wrote:
Bill, Bill, Bill. I could put up 10 of the most expensive sales in the dtjc area from places like sugarhouse lofts or some of the other luxury condos in dtjc and say, "omg condos in jc going for close to a million dollars!, how come no one is picking this up?"


Vindi, did you get any schooling past high school? You completely missed the point of my post. If you look at it again you could see that I said "this", this is singular therefore it makes sense that it is one property. I was showing the downtrend in asking price over a short period of time. In a market "doing very well" according to you, ~15% off the ask has go to raise some questions.

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Unfortunately, there will be a time when either you realize you are wrong or realize that everyone thinks you're retarded.


You should take this to heart man...

Posted on: 2012/9/28 18:24
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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Bill, Bill, Bill. I could put up 10 of the most expensive sales in the dtjc area from places like sugarhouse lofts or some of the other luxury condos in dtjc and say, "omg condos in jc going for close to a million dollars!, how come no one is picking this up?"

but I'm thinking that the time I waste in doing that won't convince you that individual sales that you hand pick don't dictate overall trends. So in the end, I decided to not do it and save myself some time.

If you want to think that dtjc is not selling, then so be it. If people want to think that Greenville is up and coming, then so be it. If people want to think that the beacon or dixon mills is great for resale, then so be it. If people want to think that the tooth fairy exists, so be it. Unfortunately, there will be a time when either you realize you are wrong or realize that everyone thinks you're retarded. I hope for you that you reach the former point rather than the latter point.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 17:27
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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07310 wrote:
Quote:

bill wrote:
What am I missing here? Why has nobody snatched this up!?

Paulus hook 2BR/2BA

09/20/2012 $525,000 -7.1% $344 Liberty Realty
09/08/2012 $565,000 -0.7% $370 Liberty Realty
08/29/2012 $569,000 -2.7% $373 Liberty Realty
08/06/2012 $585,000 -2.3% $383 Liberty Realty
07/19/2012 $599,000 -1.8% $393 Liberty Realty
07/10/2012 $610,000 -9.6% $400 Liberty Realty

There are many factors that make properties less attractive to buyers such as bad floor plans undesirable locations in buildings or exposures/views high maintenance fees. Waldo lofts for example has several units that have some of these issues. Several of the units have rooms with no windows which limits their desirability.

Not to mention neighbors, stinky food smells, high traffic, and renters as opposed to resident owners. Tough to get a mortgage when 75% of the building is rented by abstentee landlords. Now the building becomes a tenement apartment house.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 16:40
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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bill wrote:
What am I missing here? Why has nobody snatched this up!?

Paulus hook 2BR/2BA

09/20/2012 $525,000 -7.1% $344 Liberty Realty
09/08/2012 $565,000 -0.7% $370 Liberty Realty
08/29/2012 $569,000 -2.7% $373 Liberty Realty
08/06/2012 $585,000 -2.3% $383 Liberty Realty
07/19/2012 $599,000 -1.8% $393 Liberty Realty
07/10/2012 $610,000 -9.6% $400 Liberty Realty

There are many factors that make properties less attractive to buyers such as bad floor plans undesirable locations in buildings or exposures/views high maintenance fees. Waldo lofts for example has several units that have some of these issues. Several of the units have rooms with no windows which limits their desirability.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 16:32
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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What am I missing here? Why has nobody snatched this up!?

No one likes facts here.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 16:12
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What am I missing here? Why has nobody snatched this up!?

Paulus hook 2BR/2BA

09/20/2012 $525,000 -7.1% $344 Liberty Realty
09/08/2012 $565,000 -0.7% $370 Liberty Realty
08/29/2012 $569,000 -2.7% $373 Liberty Realty
08/06/2012 $585,000 -2.3% $383 Liberty Realty
07/19/2012 $599,000 -1.8% $393 Liberty Realty
07/10/2012 $610,000 -9.6% $400 Liberty Realty

Posted on: 2012/9/28 16:01
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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someguyinjc wrote:
For what it's worth, I have been experiencing exactly what some others have already described on this thread during my house hunting expeditions of late--limited inventory and abundant buyer interest. It is pretty demoralizing as a 1st time buyer finding yourself in a bidding war, but market forces are what they are... I've heard from coworkers looking further out in the boonies of NJ that they've encountered properties with multiple offers shortly after listing as well, so maybe this is the start of a larger trend. Sucks... Late to the party as usual...


If you get into the market now you are not late to the party, based on the anecdotal evidence from you and maybeMoving we are poised for a recovery in the RE market/prices in JC.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 14:05
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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For what it's worth, I have been experiencing exactly what some others have already described on this thread during my house hunting expeditions of late--limited inventory and abundant buyer interest. It is pretty demoralizing as a 1st time buyer finding yourself in a bidding war, but market forces are what they are... I've heard from coworkers looking further out in the boonies of NJ that they've encountered properties with multiple offers shortly after listing as well, so maybe this is the start of a larger trend. Sucks... Late to the party as usual...

Posted on: 2012/9/28 12:54
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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maybeMoving wrote:
We were looking at 1 or 2 bedrooms. Both were very scarce. We ended up in a two bedroom. Also, I thought it was conventional wisdom that two bedrooms were more desirable than one bedrooms partially because of the ease of reselling them.



I think that was the rational advice when there was loose credit as 2br's also opened the market to a larger group of buyers. But in the current market it seems people are purchasing more based on needs or to buy and rent out vs looking at it as an asset to sell in a few years.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 20:07
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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We were looking at 1 or 2 bedrooms. Both were very scarce. We ended up in a two bedroom. Also, I thought it was conventional wisdom that two bedrooms were more desirable than one bedrooms partially because of the ease of reselling them. When 1 bedroom and smaller units start selling quickly it's usually a sign that younger people are buying which is a bellweather for a "hot" market.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 19:50
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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vindication15 wrote:
All of you who are looking for a place and say that it is a hot market right now are wrong. Why? Because Bill said nothing is selling so he is right and you are wrong. I suggest you stop lying



Maybe there is this discrepancy because of different markets. The two people who posted were considering 1br's, those always do better than 2br+. It is just like in rental buildings, the 1br's are always in higher demand.

Also I never said nothing is selling.

Finally, the Australian company states "Fund acquires freestanding properties in select neighbourhoods at attractive valuations." What can you infer from this?

Posted on: 2012/9/27 19:33
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Kelcey wrote:
My husband and I are currently in the process of trying to buy a 1- or 2-bedroom condo in downtown JC. It is crazy out there right now!! Well over half the places we identified (some of which were listed last spring) were suddenly snatched up in the last two weeks. We only started looking in September, but there's no question that things are hot right now. There's very little inventory and what's there is going fast.


This is good to hear I was thinking of putting my 2 br/2 ba on the market next year, RE agents said they could sell it in a week but I didn't believe them.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 19:07
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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All of you who are looking for a place and say that it is a hot market right now are wrong. Why? Because Bill said nothing is selling so he is right and you are wrong. I suggest you stop lying

Posted on: 2012/9/27 18:19
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
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My husband and I are currently in the process of trying to buy a 1- or 2-bedroom condo in downtown JC. It is crazy out there right now!! Well over half the places we identified (some of which were listed last spring) were suddenly snatched up in the last two weeks. We only started looking in September, but there's no question that things are hot right now. There's very little inventory and what's there is going fast.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 18:14
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I'll chime in here since I actually just bought a place in the beginning of the summer. Obviously anecdotal evidence so take it as you wish:

My fiancee and I lived in Manhattan and wanted to upgrade our space but were priced out. Brooklyn is hardly a bargain these days either so we started looking in Jersey City and loved it. I work by WTC so the commute and the eventual completion of the Fulton Transit hub were a big draw. We put in an offer on a one bedroom in a brownstone at full ask. On the final day of attorney review the seller received a higher offer and didn't bother to ask us to counter. We wouldn't have anyways out of principle.

We went to numerous open houses and repeatedly ran into places that were in contract just days after the listing went on the market. Happened just about any time something seemed fairly priced (I know that "fairly priced" is a relative term).

We ended up looking in Dixon Mills and loving it (not looking to debate the merits of DM, just stating what we thought). We purchased a two bedroom there in June. Since then I've kept an eye on the listings coming on just to see how our timing was and units similar to those we were looking at beginning back in February seem to be coming on the market a couple % higher.

Again, from an anecdotal standpoint, supply seemed very limited in downtown. I can also say that banks ARE lending, they just have stricter standards and want extensive documentation for EVERYTHING.

Just my 2 cents.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 16:10
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o73o2 wrote:
http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/

The Fund targets properties with the potential to achieve superior risk-adjusted income and
long-term capital appreciation. Its investment strategy focuses on freestanding properties
(one-to-four family houses) and multi-dwelling properties (typically 20 to 100 units).
The Fund acquires freestanding properties in select neighbourhoods at attractive valuations, restores the properties where necessary and maximises rental income while providing tenants with quality property management services. The multi-dwelling properties have attractive rental income and potential for long-term capital growth.
To date, the Fund's freestanding property portfolio has typically been purchased at annualised net unlevered rental yields at the property level of around 8%, based on pre purchase due diligence undertaken and actual yields achieved.

http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/flyer.pdf

this provides a wealth of information what they are intending to do ...
http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/pds.pdf


Sounds like they feel JC properties are undervalued and are due for a rise in value in the next few years.

Posted on: 2012/9/27 14:54
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http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/

The US Masters Residential Property Fund (Fund) has been established to give investors the opportunity to gain exposure to a diversified portfolio of US-based residential property assets.

This is the first Australian-listed property trust with a primary strategy of investing in direct US residential property. Attractive valuations combined with relative high levels for the Australian dollar present a unique opportunity for Australian investors. At the same time, the US residential property market, particularly in the New York metropolitan area, exhibits positive long-term fundamentals.
The Fund targets properties with the potential to achieve superior risk-adjusted income and
long-term capital appreciation. Its investment strategy focuses on freestanding properties
(one-to-four family houses) and multi-dwelling properties (typically 20 to 100 units).
The Fund acquires freestanding properties in select neighbourhoods at attractive valuations, restores the properties where necessary and maximises rental income while providing tenants with quality property management services. The multi-dwelling properties have attractive rental income and potential for long-term capital growth.
To date, the Fund's freestanding property portfolio has typically been purchased at annualised net unlevered rental yields at the property level of around 8%, based on pre purchase due diligence undertaken and actual yields achieved.
Investors will not be required to file US tax returns, unlike direct individual investors in US property.

http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/flyer.pdf

this provides a wealth of information what they are intending to do ...
http://www.usmastersresidential.com.au/pds.pdf

Posted on: 2012/9/27 12:04
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Got a brochure from them today.. This australian group is really purchasing aggressively. I wonder if they are trying to corner the market or if it is because the Chinese are buying less australian ore right now...

Posted on: 2012/9/27 1:24
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Re: WTC and JC home prices/rents
#30
Home away from home
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The graphic on Dixon Leasing's page has inverted the skyline. Apparently now the Goldman Sachs tower is closer to than Newport is.

Posted on: 2012/9/26 19:24
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