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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Imagine if the barbs escalated to this. Gangster Geezer

http://www.dlisted.com/node/37307#comments

Posted on: 2010/5/18 16:50
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Jersey City approves police, fire and civilian contracts

By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal
May 12, 2010, 10:26PM

Jersey City approved contracts with five unions tonight, including the police officers, firefighters and fire officers.

The City Council voted 7-1 in favor of the contracts, Ward C Councilwoman Nidia Lopez voted against them, saying she had nothing against the employees. Ward F Councilwoman Viola Richardson was absent, her daughter is recovering from surgery.

Lopez said she was ?stuck between a rock and a hard place? when casting her vote. She said an arbitrator could award higher contracts, but she didn?t feel awarding raises to employees who make $56,000 to $136,000 while laying off others is fair.

Tonight?s meeting was a stark contract to the April 14 meeting, where the council voted 1-8 against contracts that granted the police and firefighters 3 percent raises the first year, then 3.3 percent, 3.4 percent and 3.5 percent in subsequent years. The contracts are retroactive to 2009 and expire in 2012. At-Large Councilman Mariano Vega was the sole supporter of the contracts.

Hundreds of union members attended that meeting, while only a few, including firefighters union president Joseph Krajnik were at tonight?s meeting.

?I think it?s a relief for everybody,? he said after the vote.

Krajnik added that it was difficult for union members to give up the traditional health care plan. That move saved the city $5.3 million for the three unions.

The approved contracts call for 2.75 percent raises for each of the four years of the contracts, which are retroactive to 2009.

Union members will also pay mail order prescription copays.

By approving the contracts before May 21, union members will not have to contribute 1.5 percent of their salaries toward healthcare benefits, a measure signed into law by Gov. Chris Christie, which goes into effect on that date.

The city is in arbitration with the police supervisors union.

Assistant Business Administrator Robert Kakoleski said the new police and fire contracts represent $5.6 million in savings over the previously proposed increases.

The police raises will cost the city $16.48 million more in salaries over the length of the contract. The firefighters will get $9.24 million more in salaries and the fire officers $5.88 million more.

Ward A Councilman Michael Sottolano thanked the unions for coming back to the table after the contracts were defeated.

?I think it is a good sign when you do have the sides come back, you explain to them what the financial impact is and what the financial impact would have meant to the city,? he said. ?I?d like to thank both sides for their level-headedness and willingness to come back and negotiate with us.?

The City Council also approved contracts with the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 68-68A, which represents five boiler operators; and Jersey City Public Employees Local 245, which represents the city?s public works employees.

Both unions are also giving up the traditional health care plan and paying mail order prescription co-pays. The boiler operators will get a $1,000 payment for the change in health benefits.

The salary for chief stationary engineers will be $51,080 for fiscal year 2010; $52,380 for fiscal year 2011 and $53,680 for fiscal year 2012. Stationary firemen and engineers will be paid $48,355 for fiscal year 2010; $49,655 for fiscal year 2011 and $50,955 for fiscal year 2012. The shift differential rate for members working 3 p.m. to 7 a.m. will increase from 40 cents to 60 cents an hour.

Local 245 members will get payments of $2,000 for the health benefits change. The contract calls for $1,000 retroactive salary increases in fiscal year 2009 and 2010. The union members are forgoing raises in the coming fiscal year.

Posted on: 2010/5/13 14:58
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Jersey City police, fire contracts up for a vote, again

By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal
May 11, 2010, 6:10PM

The Jersey City police and fire contracts are back up for a vote after failing to get City Council approval last month.

The city council voted 1-8 April 14, defeating the contracts, which called for 3 percent raises the first year, then 3.3 percent, 3.4 percent and 3.5 percent in subsequent years.

At-Large Councilman Mariano Vega was the sole supporter of the contracts.

The contracts are retroactive to 2009 and expire in 2012. The contracts appear are up for a vote tomorrow night.

The new contracts for the Police Officers Benevolent Association, Firefighters Local 1066 and Fire Officers Local 1064 call for 2.75 percent raises in each of the four contract years.

The contract also calls for the unions to give up the traditional health care plan and pay co-pays on mail order prescription medication. In addition the union members will contribute 1.5 percent of their salaries toward the cost of health care, a requirement signed into law by Gov. Chris Christie.

?We got the health care plan that we wanted, we got the percentage we wanted and we got the 1.5 percent,? Assistant Business Administrator Robert Kakoleski told City Council members Monday.

Kakoleski said had the contracts gone to an arbitrator, as the police supervisors union has, it could result in higher salary increases and legal fees.

Ward A Councilman Michael Sottolano and Ward E Councilman Steven Fulop applauded the new contracts.

?The health care is the largest portion of uncertainty for us, salary we have control,? Fulop said saying he liked the elimination of the traditional plan. ?I think it lends itself to long-term planning.?

The state had taken issue with the previous contracts saying in a letter to the city administration that they were ?too expensive.?

The police raises will cost the city $16.48 million more in salaries over the length of the contract. The firefighters will get $9.24 million more in salaries and the fire officers $5.88 million more.

But Kakoleski said the new contracts represent $5.6 million in savings over the previously proposed salary increases. The city will also save $5.36 million in health care costs.

The City Council is also set to vote on two other contracts tomorrow, the International Union of Operating Engineers Local 68-68A, which represents five boiler operators; and Jersey City Public Employees Local 245, which represents the city?s blue-collar workers.

Both unions are also giving up the traditional health care plan and paying mail order prescription co-pays. The boiler operators will get a $1,000 payment for the change in health benefits.

The salary for chief stationary engineers will be $51,080 for fiscal year 2010; $52,380 for fiscal year 2011 and $53,680 for fiscal year 2012. Stationary firemen and engineers will be paid $48,355 for fiscal year 2010; $49,655 for fiscal year 2011 and $50,955 for fiscal year 2012. The shift differential rate for members working 3 p.m. to 7 a.m. will increase from 40 cents to 60 cents an hour.

Local 245 members will get payments of $2,000 for the health benefits change. The contract calls for $1,000 retroactive salary increases in fiscal year 2009 and 2010. The union members are forgoing raises in the coming fiscal year.

Posted on: 2010/5/12 6:26
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Don't forget all the private work they do for construction companies while in uniform !
Nobody will convince me otherwise, that Cops aren't in it for the money.....providing a service to the community runs second to money !

Posted on: 2010/5/3 6:57
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Pay freezes, round 2: Police and fireghters must give back, too

By Star-Ledger Editorial Board
May 02, 2010, 5:58AM

After months of trying to shame public-school teachers into accepting a one-year pay freeze ? and persuading some to do it ? Gov. Chris Christie now must demand that police officers and firefighters make the same sacrifice. All public employees should be required to give back, and cops and firefighters, after all, earn more than teachers.

Taxpayers already have made New Jersey police the highest-paid in the nation. The average base salary is $75,400, with many opportunities to pad that amount. Along with gold-plated health plans, cops can retire after 25 years at 65 percent of their top salary.

The country?s highest-paid firefighters live here, too. They average $69,620, with nearly identical benefits as police officers.

And despite reforms recently passed by the Legislature, many cops and firefighters will cash in unused sick and vacation time at retirement and walk away with six-figure checks.

So, after lathering themselves for years in the bubble bath of taxpayer generosity, cops and firemen must towel off, reopen contracts and accept a pay freeze. Christie must demand it. Mayors must demand it, and use layoffs as a hammer. And any new contracts, signed this year, should include a zero wage increase for 2010.

Anthony Wieners, president of the state PBA, says he is encouraging local chapters to discuss options with governing bodies. ?Sometimes that includes wage freezes,? he says. But in the next breath, Wieners warns those PBAs to ?be wary? of towns that might be exaggerating their financial crisis to weasel givebacks.

That?s just plain silly. What towns are rolling in dough?

Cops and firefighters must share the economic pain. But ? just as the New Jersey Education Association thumbed its nose at cash-strapped taxpayers ? most police and fire unions so far have rejected this notion.

In Edison, council members are calling for police and firefighter concessions to avoid a property tax increase.

The unions are against this, even though Edison has some of the highest-paid cops in the state, with several officers making more than $200,000 a year.

Of 323 cops and firefighters listed on Edison?s 2008 payroll, 275 made more than $100,000. A fire captain?s average annual salary exceeds $150,000; lieutenants earn an average of $120,000; and regular firefighters start at $45,000 and can earn more than $105,000.

Both unions are negotiating new contracts, and Edison should hold the line (even though the mayor owes her election to the police and fire unions). A pay freeze at those salaries won?t force anyone to miss a mortgage payment.

Without concessions, Irvington will have to fire 20 cops and 10 firefighters. Mayor Wayne Smith, worried about a police force that already is drastically understaffed, is hoping the unions are open to a pay freeze and other concessions. But he isn?t certain the unions ?are going to be willing to address the fiscal reality? when negotiations resume, he says.

Will police and firefighters, like most teachers, refuse a pay freeze and sacrifice their brethren on the altar of obstinacy?

As anyone in the private sector would tell them: Going home with the same paycheck (or even a little less) is better than going home with no paycheck at all.

Passaic sent a proposal to the Civil Service Commission, asking permission to demote 78 police and fire supervisors to the preceding pay grade. It could help save 50 jobs, but the local unions are against any plan that includes demotions or pay freezes.

With dozens of cops booing, the Jersey City council rejected a negotiated contract that would have raised salaries 13 percent over four years. Uniformed officers had to escort their frenzied off-duty colleagues out of the meeting.

Does it sound like these cops would suspend their sense of entitlement and accept a pay freeze?

The long-term solution to these out-of-whack salaries is to scrap binding arbitration, which is tilted in favor of the unions. Police and fire contracts should be negotiated regionally, eliminating the unions? ability to pit one town against another.

And passing legislation that ties raises and benefits to the rate of inflation will help towns when current contracts expire.

The unions will fight, of course. They already have filed a lawsuit to challenge the recent ? and fiscally sane ? changes made to their pension and health benefits.

It all brings to mind the time former state Sen. Robert Martin, speaking at a regional town meeting, was berated for high property taxes. Martin asked the critic his occupation. ?I?m a cop,? the guy said.

Martin tried to explain that property taxes were so high, in large part, because of the bounteous salaries and benefits awarded to police officers and other public employees.

?He didn?t want to hear about sacrifices,? Martin said.

?He wanted lower taxes, higher pay and great benefits, and he wanted everyone else to pay for it.?

Posted on: 2010/5/3 4:38
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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City will try again to reach contract with cops, fire unions
Monday, April 19, 2010
By MELISSA HAYES
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Jersey City officials say they are ready to return to the negotiating table with the city's police and fire unions after the City Council voted down both proposed contracts.

"We are ready, willing and able to sit down again with the police and fire unions to negotiate a contract and are confident we can find one that will be agreeable to all parties," Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy said in a statement.

But Jerry DeCicco, president of the Police Officers Benevolent Association, said the next phase in the negotiations would be arbitration, which could work against the city.

DeCicco said that process could take eight to 10 months before a settlement is reached. "It's very possible that more generous raises are going to come out of arbitration," DeCicco said.

The long and intense negotiations resulted in contracts that offered 3 percent retroactive raises for 2009, 3.3 percent in 2010, 3.4 percent in 2011 and 3.5 percent in 2012, figures that state officials called "too expensive" in a letter to Healy.

DeCicco said the city would have realized what the fire union estimated to be $5 million savings by eliminating the traditional health care plan.

If a contract is not settled by May 22, employees from both unions would be required to contribute 1.5 percent of their salaries toward the cost of health care, under a measure signed into law recently by Gov. Chris Christie.

During the heated City Council meeting, where At-Large Councilman Mariano Vega was the only member to support the contracts, Joseph Krajnik, president of the firefighters union, blasted Christie, who has been in open warfare with the teachers union.

"I wish I could talk to him but I can't because he has a bully pulpit that just wants to knock teachers, police and firefighters," Krajnik said. "If you're a public employee you're a thief. You steal."

Posted on: 2010/4/22 5:25
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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It's funny how the JCPD, FDJC, and the City workers are all pissed of at Healy and his Captive Council, when many of them all supported, donated, campaigned for Team Healy.
They help Healy get reelected and elected his team and now are paying for it given their incompetence to run Jersey City and the budget.

Team Healy has been nothing bust self-serving an bled Jersey City dry, now no money for raises, must close down firehouses, and lay-off city workers.

I hope all of you that supported Team Healy are proud ouf yourselves. You reap what you sow.

Posted on: 2010/4/15 14:56
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Quote:

T-Bird wrote:
Quote:

JerseyCityPower wrote:
Perhaps if there were NOT ALL THE SCANDALOUS TAX ABATEMENTS lovingly handed by OUR CORRUPT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS (Vega, Brennan, all of them,....) to the exclusive condos and wealthy DEVELOPERS (think the DWEK sting) at NEWPORT and elsewhere in JC--perhaps, perhaps perhaps.....THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH FUNDS for our public servants--the POLICE and the FIREFIGHTERS!

What a DAMN shame.

VOTE THIS COUNCIL OUT!
REPEAL the LAST ELECTION NOW!

THROW THE BUMS OUT!


Well done, JCP. You constructed an argument that stuck to local dynamics and didn't once mention the war or the bailouts. Your statement is factually inaccurate, but at least it's based on items related to the topic.

Developers don't live in the abated buildings, the people they sell to do. Some have gotten sweetened deals recently, but by and large the people paying PILOTs as they are called, pay as much or more in taxes than the unabated. In fact, you can't have it both ways - since PILOTs go straight to the city (and there is no allocation for the schools from these payments), people scream that the abated aren't carrying their share on the schools.

If that is true, than the other side must also be true: since ALL of my payment goes to the city and none to the schools, I am paying a disproportionately larger share of the police and fire wage.

You're welcome.


hahaha . Now T-Bird, how come you are using logic on this message board? Silly, silly you!

In all seriousness though, everyone I know in an abated building pays (a lot) more in taxes than I do....

Posted on: 2010/4/15 14:18
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Quote:

JerseyCityPower wrote:
Perhaps if there were NOT ALL THE SCANDALOUS TAX ABATEMENTS lovingly handed by OUR CORRUPT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS (Vega, Brennan, all of them,....) to the exclusive condos and wealthy DEVELOPERS (think the DWEK sting) at NEWPORT and elsewhere in JC--perhaps, perhaps perhaps.....THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH FUNDS for our public servants--the POLICE and the FIREFIGHTERS!

What a DAMN shame.

VOTE THIS COUNCIL OUT!
REPEAL the LAST ELECTION NOW!

THROW THE BUMS OUT!


Well done, JCP. You constructed an argument that stuck to local dynamics and didn't once mention the war or the bailouts. Your statement is factually inaccurate, but at least it's based on items related to the topic.

Developers don't live in the abated buildings, the people they sell to do. Some have gotten sweetened deals recently, but by and large the people paying PILOTs as they are called, pay as much or more in taxes than the unabated. In fact, you can't have it both ways - since PILOTs go straight to the city (and there is no allocation for the schools from these payments), people scream that the abated aren't carrying their share on the schools.

If that is true, than the other side must also be true: since ALL of my payment goes to the city and none to the schools, I am paying a disproportionately larger share of the police and fire wage.

You're welcome.

Posted on: 2010/4/15 13:57
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Perhaps if there were NOT ALL THE SCANDALOUS TAX ABATEMENTS lovingly handed by OUR CORRUPT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS (Vega, Brennan, all of them,....) to the exclusive condos and wealthy DEVELOPERS (think the DWEK sting) at NEWPORT and elsewhere in JC--perhaps, perhaps perhaps.....THERE WOULD BE ENOUGH FUNDS for our public servants--the POLICE and the FIREFIGHTERS!

What a DAMN shame.

VOTE THIS COUNCIL OUT!
REPEAL the LAST ELECTION NOW!

THROW THE BUMS OUT!

Posted on: 2010/4/15 13:34
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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srg1 wrote:
Did the state threaten to pull funding? I cannot think of any other reason why they could vote down the contract. I mean, this is our City Council we are talking about.

Well at least the city council is a equal opportunity disappointer, they screw everybody. Maybe finally the citizens and the essential services can get together and vote out the council oh wait that won't work the members of said union probably don't line in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2010/4/15 13:23
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Did the state threaten to pull funding? I cannot think of any other reason why they could vote down the contract. I mean, this is our City Council we are talking about.

Posted on: 2010/4/15 12:01
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Re: Council may approve contract with police this month -- Union President and Mayor traded barbs
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Jersey City meeting turns ugly as council defeats police, fire contracts
By Melissa Hayes/The Jersey Journal
April 14, 2010, 10:30PM

The rowdy crowd of more than 100 people booed and heckled the council members as they cast 'no' votes on the contracts.

Union members took particular issue when Ward F Councilwoman Viola Richardson, a city police officer who is working a county job while on disability from the department, voted against the contracts.

?You?re off on disability collecting,? one man yelled while approaching the dais. ?How many jobs do you work??

Richardson responded by yelling, ?Whatever,? several times into her microphone.

Union members were escorted into the hallway after the exchange where they continued to yell.

Council members voting against the contracts, which failed 1-8, noted that civilian union employees have been forced to take unpaid furloughs and face layoffs and questioned whether the city could afford the raises, which Business Administrator Brian O?Reilly estimated amount to about $8 million.

?I just don?t believe the money is there. We?ve already raised taxes in this city,? Ward B Councilman David Donnelly said before voting no. ?In any other year this contract would be a no-brainer to vote on it really would, but these are difficult times.?

But At-large Councilman Mariano Vega, the sole member to vote for the contracts, said whether the city could afford the raises was part of the negotiation process.

?I wish that the city could share the hardship evenly with everyone else,? he said about the furloughs and layoffs affecting other city workers. ?I realize that?s not possible. Furloughing the police and fire would be the Wild West. I?m going to honor those who negotiated and vote aye.?

Prior to the vote union members urged the council to support the contracts.

Both contracts offer 3 percent retroactive raises for 2009, 3.3 percent in 2010, 3.4 percent in 2011 and 3.5 percent in 2012.

Jersey City Police Officers Benevolent Association President Jerry DiCicco said in exchange for the raises both unions agreed to give up the traditional health care coverage, which combined would save the city about $5 million.

While the state recently took issue with the contracts in a letter to city officials calling them, ?too expensive,? DiCicco and other union officials pointed out that the state praised the health care concessions.

According to union members, this is the first time in City Council history that police and fire contracts have been defeated.

Union officials spoke passionately tonight about how hard it was for members to give up the traditional health plan, which they said combined would save the city $5 million.

If the City Council does not settle the contracts before May 22, union members would be required to contribute 1.5 percent of their salaries toward the cost of health care, under a measure signed into law by Gov. Chris Christie.

While DeCicco offered statistics on the number of incidents officers handled last year ? over 500,000 ? and the drop in crime, Joseph Krajnik, president of the firefighters union, took a different approach.

Krajnik spoke so loud and passionately that his words actually echoed through the council chambers.

?This contract is a deal for you the taxpayers because we gave up what I swore I would never give up and that?s the traditional plan and you take it so lightly that we did nothing,? he yelled. ?I wish the governor was here. I wish I could talk to him. But I can?t because he has a bully pulpit that just wants to knock teachers, police and firefighters. If you?re a public employee you?re a thief. You steal.?

Christie has been at war with the New Jersey Education Association in recent weeks and recently encouraged voters to defeat any school budgets that don?t include wage freezes for teachers.

?The savings, the taxation of the 1.5 (percent) is not for health benefits, it?s a tax on every municipal employee,? Krajnik yelled, his voice echoing. ?It?s not for health benefits. It?s to offset the lack of the governor's intestinal fortitude to help municipalities in a time of need.?

Posted on: 2010/4/15 8:32
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Total Runs for 2007:

Jersey City: 22,747 (page 154)

Newark: 12,238 (page 152)

New Jersey Divison of Fire & Safety
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/dfs/fireinnj07.pdf


While I'm giving out grades, the designer of that report gets a D. On the table you refer to, none of the columns have labels nor is there any guidance elsewhere in that section. Just what are the 9 numbers for every city that add up to total runs?

Edit:
Backtracked the link and found the 2008 report http://www.state.nj.us/dca/dfs/fire_in_nj08.pdf which actually identifies the data points. The biggest reason we have so many more runs is EMS, 9075 to Newark's 2290. Presumably they have an alternative 1st responder for medical emergencies, possibly one that's cheaper than turning out a fire crew? Anyone know what EMS system Hoboken & North Hudson has? With 1/6 our population Hoboken had 3.4% our FD EMS runs. North Hudson which serves 195K, had only 357 EMS runs.

Runner up is "service" whatever that is: 1169 to our 4126. As far as actual fire runs, they had 1882 to our 1389.


But all this still means little without staffing and unit comparisons to pick apart that EMS story. It's not easy, but you simply can't throw numbers around without context.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 18:46
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Total Runs for 2007:

Jersey City: 22,747 (page 154)

Newark: 12,238 (page 152)

New Jersey Divison of Fire & Safety
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/dfs/fireinnj07.pdf


Was that so hard? Yay, you get C+ on your report! An A would require comparisons AND analysis. Like why might 2 so similar cities have so different stats. Could we be over responding? Just stating we have nearly twice as many runs begs many questions, like do we have more runs relative to alarms? I'll be reading the doc you kindly reference to see what can be extracted.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 17:58
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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It doesn't matter how much public servants make, or how hard they work, or whether or not they are underappreciated. The fact is that NJ's fiscal situation is in the crapper and some pain must be spread out in the form of cuts in personnel, salaries, and benefits. It may not be fair and it may not be all their fault, but this is what happens when things go south.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 17:00
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Total Runs for 2007:

Jersey City: 22,747 (page 154)

Newark: 12,238 (page 152)

New Jersey Divison of Fire & Safety
http://www.state.nj.us/dca/dfs/fireinnj07.pdf

Posted on: 2010/4/14 16:49
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Quote:

darenot wrote:

These number mean nothing in a vacuum. They need to be compared to a variety of other cities to mean anything at all.

You would also be more credible if you would stop quibbling about the acronym and posting selected data, and actually cite or link to your data source. Then we would all know more about the fire service.



Selected Data?? It's all over the place on the web. Just look it up.

Name a city that is comparable to Jersey City??


Credible facts require citation of source, not "go look it up yourself". This you should have learned in high school.

Comparable cities is easy. Pick ones of similar population or similar age and demographics, or both.

List of cities by pop. http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/North_American_cities.htm

Lets pick Louisville, Birmingham, Rochester, Akron, Fort Wayne, Newark, and Buffalo. All aging eastern industrial cities of more or less a quarter million people. See, was that hard? JC is not unique, to be considered in a vacuum.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 16:26
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Quote:

darenot wrote:

These number mean nothing in a vacuum. They need to be compared to a variety of other cities to mean anything at all.

You would also be more credible if you would stop quibbling about the acronym and posting selected data, and actually cite or link to your data source. Then we would all know more about the fire service.



Selected Data?? It's all over the place on the web. Just look it up.

Name a city that is comparable to Jersey City??

Posted on: 2010/4/14 15:48
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Its the FDNY not NYFD..

And Engine 9 in journal square averages over 3,000 runs a year..

Engines are around 2,300 runs a year..
Ladders are around 1,800 runs a year..
Battalion Chiefs are around 2,000 runs a year..

Jersey City has the busiest companies in the state.

Big industrial area?? What does that have to do with anything?? Most fires occur in residential dwellings.

You know nothing about the fire service.


These number mean nothing in a vacuum. They need to be compared to a variety of other cities to mean anything at all.

You would also be more credible if you would stop quibbling about the acronym and posting selected data, and actually cite or link to your data source. Then we would all know more about the fire service.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 15:16
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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LaimDozer wrote:
I would like to know how many fires each ladderhouse responds to. Based upon how many houses there are relative to only 220,000 people I bet its low. Its not like JC has a big industrial area.

THe NYFD has a house in Staten Island called the Jack Daniels House. It is where they send all the alcoholics and trouble makers. I bet that house is still busier than any house in JC


Its the FDNY not NYFD..

And Engine 9 in journal square averages over 3,000 runs a year..

Engines are around 2,300 runs a year..
Ladders are around 1,800 runs a year..
Battalion Chiefs are around 2,000 runs a year..

Jersey City has the busiest companies in the state.

Big industrial area?? What does that have to do with anything?? Most fires occur in residential dwellings.

You know nothing about the fire service.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 12:02
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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I would like to know how many fires each ladderhouse responds to. Based upon how many houses there are relative to only 220,000 people I bet its low. Its not like JC has a big industrial area.

THe NYFD has a house in Staten Island called the Jack Daniels House. It is where they send all the alcoholics and trouble makers. I bet that house is still busier than any house in JC

Posted on: 2010/4/14 4:25
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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mvm wrote:
Quote:

JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Jersey City has closed four companies everyday for overtime concerns. This has delayed response times all over the city..
.


Is this because the average JC taxpayer is not paying enough and tax rates need to be raised, or is it because we have too much of the budget dedicated chiefs and because the city is not allowed by entrenched interests to hire new people they can afford?


It's not clear that we needed those companies, lets see numbers not anecdotes. Whether compared by population or area, we are far overstaffed compared to Philly, the only comparison easily available. If Battalion Chiefs represent a certain number of units, we have 3 times theirs per capita. Adding in the comments about how many firemen are in the units, it sure looks like we have far more units than they for our size. A little googling turned up that there's a document called "the municipal yearbook" published every year with all the stats to compare apples to apples rather than tell stories. I wonder if the library has it?

I've heard that the reason for so many firehouses in old cities was that before modern construction and building codes, there were LOTS of fires! Old wooden houses were heated with coal stoves and fireplaces, and lit with gaslight. Now you have concrete and steel structures with sprinklers, even the old places have much safer heat and wiring, and there are smoke detectors everywhere. We simply don't need as much FD service as we used to. Not to say none, but not the density of 60 or 90 years ago.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 3:21
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Quote:

JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Jersey City has closed four companies everyday for overtime concerns. This has delayed response times all over the city..
.


Is this because the average JC taxpayer is not paying enough and tax rates need to be raised, or is it because we have too much of the budget dedicated chiefs and because the city is not allowed by entrenched interests to hire new people they can afford?

Posted on: 2010/4/14 0:53
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Jersey City has closed four companies everyday for overtime concerns. This has delayed response times all over the city..

Example the other night: Fire Alarm at Exchange Place. 1st Due ladder company was coming from Sip Ave in Journal Square.

Minutes mean the difference between life and death.

Posted on: 2010/4/14 0:41
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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This from a friend:

"All of Jersey City's Recreational programs are being cut!!! Everybody say, "Thank U, Wars and 737 bases around the world!!" ...spoke to a teenager a week ago, and he said that he is worried because everybody knows what those kids, in his neighborhood, will get into, now!!!"


So, now---
All posters here who are in denial and see NO connection between YOUR tax money being stolen and spent on endless wars and the rotting away of our infrastructure here in Jersey City.....and the dire extremes people will go to to simply survive on the street--

----when YOU are mugged (GOD FORBID) you can most likely thank yourselves.

Posted on: 2010/4/13 2:07
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Philadelphia has an additional firefighter on each ladder company and two additional firefighters on there squad company. In order for Jersey City to be staffed like Philadelphia you would have to increase there total firefighters by 80. Philadelphia has an officer to firefighter ratio of 3.2. Jersey City is not to far off.

I do believe they should look into making staff positions filled by firefighters instead of Captains. That would be a savings and by bringing Lieutenants back would also reduce the jump of 30% from firefighter to captain. These are two reasonable changes.

Those two savings would not compromise the safety of the people of Jersey City!


Your math is fuzzy. JC's ratio of 2.2 firemen per brass to their 3.2 is huge, 145% of philly's. You decline to compare by area or population served, instead using unit staffing which is totally misleading, since obviously they have far fewer units per man. Having too many stations is one of the obvious ways we waste money, since each station requires a full set of 4 captains, correct?

Posted on: 2010/4/12 22:00
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Unfortunately, JC doesn't provide the level of transparency in its budgeting process that other cities do, so we don't know the range of salaries is for any of them


Not entirely true. Though I have not seen up to date data that is easily accessible from Jersey City itself, the data is compiled by the Asbury Park Press here:

http://php.app.com/NJpublicemployees/ ... SC&tfm_orderby=salaryall2

It is a couple of years old, but you get the idea.

Posted on: 2010/4/12 21:12
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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Philadelphia has an additional firefighter on each ladder company and two additional firefighters on there squad company. In order for Jersey City to be staffed like Philadelphia you would have to increase there total firefighters by 80. Philadelphia has an officer to firefighter ratio of 3.2. Jersey City is not to far off.

I do believe they should look into making staff positions filled by firefighters instead of Captains. That would be a savings and by bringing Lieutenants back would also reduce the jump of 30% from firefighter to captain. These are two reasonable changes.

Those two savings would not compromise the safety of the people of Jersey City!

Posted on: 2010/4/12 20:41
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Re: State calls for renegotiating 'too expensive' Jersey City police and fire contracts
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JerseyCityKid08 wrote:
Okay seriously the Captain drives in the passenger seat of every engine, ladder, and rescue company. They are in charge of three firefighters assigned to there company. The company operates as a team..

You know nothing about the fire service, so stop acting like your an expert!


Even accounting for the fact that we have captains filling the role most depts have lieutenants for, your blaming the high brass ratio on our being "undermannned" falls apart when you compare our firemen to Philly. We have more than twice theirs per capita and 3x per sq mi. Explain that away.

Posted on: 2010/4/12 19:56
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