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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Since you are both posting here how about a truce?

Posted on: 2009/2/22 14:58
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Binky wrote:
K-Lo - No, of course not. The pix are off the net.

I agree with JM

Quote:

jennymayla wrote:

I call bullsh*t. On the whole thing.


And on the Monmouth St. thing, too, while we're at it.


Me three... or is that four?

Posted on: 2009/2/22 14:46
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Posted on: 2009/2/22 14:42
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Just as I thought. I'm a comparatively small person who generally walks the escalators at WTC. I would never think of passing on the Grove Street escalator. Too narrow and too short.

Posted on: 2009/2/22 14:18
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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K-Lo - No, of course not. The pix are off the net.

I agree with JM

Quote:

jennymayla wrote:

I call bullsh*t. On the whole thing.


And on the Monmouth St. thing, too, while we're at it.

Posted on: 2009/2/22 13:50
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Were those pictures taken at the Grove Street PATH escalator?

Posted on: 2009/2/22 12:36
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Posted on: 2009/2/22 12:20
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Posted on: 2009/2/22 11:57
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Truly, life is stranger than fiction. The internet falls somewhere between the two.

To The Pusher:

Indeed, I was in a hurry to get home, it was cold, and I had spent the last nine hours laboring over Byron's Don Juan. I was in a mood--the kind of mood you have after work.

There's no need to contest what happened. We have different versions and I stand by mine. I didn't elbow past you. I did not touch you.

For me, that's the issue here---that you forcibly shoved me. That's not ok. That's a physical act. You should not touch strangers.

Now, I apologize for badgering you about manners. It's an obnoxious thing to do. When you refused to move, even though I perceived you were impolite, I should have let it go.

As for the police, more than anything I was disturbed by two things: 1) The way you invoked some kind of insider connection to influence their response and 2) The pitch of your cackle when you walked away after they had unduly berated me. I was very polite towards the cop until he tried to subvert your shove by telling me that in this part of the country people don't let others past on escalator. In other words, he had no interest in your physical aggression, and quibbled over some arbitrary point to negate anything I had to say. (ie the reason why many people consider cops assholes)

What you did was an act of assault, which is a criminal act. Granted, I'm mindful of the violence that surrounds us, but it is a fallacy to suggest that this act is not of legitimate concern to me, the police, or other citizens. The public has a reasonable expectation to be protected from any physically aggressive act perpetrated against them by a private citizen.

I wish you would express some degree of contrition for shoving me, but thank you for not kicking my ass.

Morals:

1) I should watch my mouth
2) You should keep your hands to yourself

Posted on: 2009/2/22 2:34
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Alastor

Remember, you're not on campus anymore. You are lucky this guy had some self control. People get killed for way less. There approx 40 murders a year in JC. Don't increase your odds of being another statistic.

Posted on: 2009/2/22 0:30
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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jennymayla wrote:
Anyway, I still call bullsh*t on the whole thing. Very fishy.

Please don't call the cops on me.


I agree with JM. To the OP - whether it really happened or not, thanks for posting!

Posted on: 2009/2/22 0:30
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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I know I should have acted better, tuned him out and let the push go but I didn?t; I allowed myself to get caught up in his drama.


Let the push go? I assume that means his push and not yours. You still haven't acknowledged if you shoved him or not. Doesn't really matter --- you still sound like a mega-douche.

You have also failed to comment on the alleged phone call to your "bud" ---- the JCPD lieutenant.

Just as you admonish the other party that (in so many words) he may one day cross the wrong person while exhibiting the same behavior, maybe you should heed the same advice.

Posted on: 2009/2/21 23:32
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Alastor, this is for you.

DUDE, YOU ARE A JOKE.

I knew you'd be posting here and I give you credit for being partially truthful but next time state all the facts.

First, the escalator at Grove is built for 1 person per stair; 2 if you?re slight of build and as you noted I?m nowhere near that. Next, I?m on the escalator by myself and a little more than halfway up someone comes up behind me and asks me to move. I think to myself where should I move; he's already noted my size so I couldn't move right or left so that meant up. If wanted to walk I wouldn?t ride the escalator so I look at the person who is on my back and say no. Next, he starts yapping in my ear about etiquette and manners. When I was getting off the escalator he said I guess you have no manners so I decided to take my time and then he decides that he is going to get by me by pushing through me using his shoulder and arm instead of going around me because there was room once I was off the escalator. I know I should have acted better, tuned him out and let the push go but I didn?t; I allowed myself to get caught up in his drama.

Alastor, I still don't understand why did you keep trying to talk to me. You had said you were going to call the police then do so; there was no need for any further interaction. Were you trying to provoke me further? Then when you decided to follow me, why would you walk 3 feet behind me? Couldn?t you have accomplished the same goal by following me from across the street at a safe distance? I was happy when the cops came because if I heard ?Do you know why I called the police?? one more time I would have asked to be arrested to get away from you.

When the police arrived the officers split up and questioned each of us about what happened. The police behaved in a professional and courteous manner. Wouldn?t it have served you better to state what happened instead of being belligerent and condescending to them. And why was the only thing you wanted the police to do was to tell me about my behavior.

Even as we walked our separate ways you couldn?t be quiet; you had to keep yapping at me.

I just hope that no real crime was taking place during this time, where these officers could have made a difference instead of dealing with our nonsense.

Now some words of advice to you Alastor.

1) If you are in a hurry to get out of the Grove Street Path station use the stairs.

2) Belittling or berating someone especially a stranger rarely gets someone to see things your way; most times it causes minor incidents to become major.

3) If you are going to call the police, think first is this really a situation that warrants it. If the answer is yes then do so. But do it at a safe distance and don't yell your intentions out to the person you are calling them on.

The safe distance is key, you're involved in an altercation and at close range you reach into your coat or pocket that can be misconstrued as reaching for a weapon and next thing you know the altercation is at an entirely new level. The same things goes for calling the police do it and don't tell the world about it.

4) If you're going to follow the person do so at a safe distance and don't try to interact with them. You're following someone closely at night going by unlit areas telling them that you are calling the police on them - you can't be that dumb.


Alastor think about it; we're invovled in a minor altercation and you attempt to escalate it either deliberately or through stupidity. If I was really a bad guy would either of us have the chance to post about it online now - I think not.

Posted on: 2009/2/21 21:56
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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NNJR wrote:
You simply sound too polite to live in JC. After living in many cities I have found that JC residents can be some of the nastiest people around. However it is cheap and close to Manhattan so we live with it.

Police officer's job is to protect and serve. From the smallest quality of life crime to murders. It is their job and they signed up for it. They deserve respect and they should should be respectful to citizens.

I think you did the right thing but the fact is that there are a lot of awful people out there and sometimes the shortest path is around them.

I agree, if this person wants to live in a utopian community they should move to Utopia or Europia then he or she will exhibit euphoria.

Posted on: 2009/2/21 10:48
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Which took longer: the entire incident or the time spent writing the essay about it?

And is there anyway I can get back the past 5 minutes of my life?

Well, that made my five minutes worthwhile.

Posted on: 2009/2/21 5:03
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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You simply sound too polite to live in JC. After living in many cities I have found that JC residents can be some of the nastiest people around. However it is cheap and close to Manhattan so we live with it.

Police officer's job is to protect and serve. From the smallest quality of life crime to murders. It is their job and they signed up for it. They deserve respect and they should should be respectful to citizens.

I think you did the right thing but the fact is that there are a lot of awful people out there and sometimes the shortest path is around them.

Posted on: 2009/2/21 4:31
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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alastor, you have every right to voice your issue - change can happen with one voice followed by another - your issue has credit by the mere fact that the JCPD have a crap record of public relations and as public service providers.
So much for those 'quality of life' issues Comey and Healy keep talking about. The cops could have shown empathy with you since crime is down and they have more spare time - so much for words like professionalism and respect !
Then again we all know about crying wolf with the random gang bashings during halloween !

Posted on: 2009/2/21 2:44
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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alastor wrote:
This post generated far more interest than I expected. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider it. It's very true; you have only my side of the story. I'm not proposing that you buy it. I just wanted to voice it. The reason why I didn't file a report or ask to see the officers' supervisor was because I thought it had gone far enough and it was clear to me something underhanded and questionable was going on. I told the officers what I thought of their conduct, but I don't think the situation warranted involving anyone else, which would have probably only exacerbated my upset and their annoyance. That said, when I got home I called the precinct to speak with the Lieutenant at his convenience because I was disturbed by what seemed nefarious. He never called back. End of story. For some, the actions I've described seem like those of a hyperbolic sissy-pants dandy. Forgive me for trying to return our majestic city to its Victorian prosperity of genteel manners and watchful billy clubs.


I call bullsh*t. On the whole thing.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 22:43
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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This post generated far more interest than I expected. Thanks for taking the time to read and consider it. It's very true; you have only my side of the story. I'm not proposing that you buy it. I just wanted to voice it. The reason why I didn't file a report or ask to see the officers' supervisor was because I thought it had gone far enough and it was clear to me something underhanded and questionable was going on. I told the officers what I thought of their conduct, but I don't think the situation warranted involving anyone else, which would have probably only exacerbated my upset and their annoyance. That said, when I got home I called the precinct to speak with the Lieutenant at his convenience because I was disturbed by what seemed nefarious. He never called back. End of story. For some, the actions I've described seem like those of a hyperbolic sissy-pants dandy. Forgive me for trying to return our majestic city to its Victorian prosperity of genteel manners and watchful billy clubs.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 22:29
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Vigilante wrote:
This is another thread about a "you had to be there" story. There are a lot of things about it that are vague. For instance, how exactly did he say no he wasn't moving? Was it "fu*k you, I ain't moving" or was it a simple shake of the head? Was he messing with you? Maybe he was drunk? Just had to be there I guess. BTW, I have always had a great respect for the police but 20 years of cynical, rude cops has slowly eroded that respect.


Theres many variables to Alasters account of what happened.
Remember what we're reading is his take, and yr right, you have to wonder what tone was used when asking to move and body language.

Not saying Alaster is wrong, just saying none of us witnessed that event and therefore should keep an open mind to it.

Furthermore if Alaster trully felt that he was assualted, why didnt he sign a complaint? Better yet, he had all the right in the world to have those cops call for a supervisor if he really felt they weren't offering any cooperation.

Just too many ???? to buy into this one sided story...

Posted on: 2009/2/20 20:30
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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This is another thread about a "you had to be there" story. There are a lot of things about it that are vague. For instance, how exactly did he say no he wasn't moving? Was it "fu*k you, I ain't moving" or was it a simple shake of the head? Was he messing with you? Maybe he was drunk? Just had to be there I guess. BTW, I have always had a great respect for the police but 20 years of cynical, rude cops has slowly eroded that respect.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 19:24
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

orangutan98 wrote:
The "blame the victim" mentality I've seen exhibited by some on these boards is obnoxious.



How ironic. Yesterday, you called somebody's tragically deceased relative a "nut case" in a staggering demonstration of tactlessness. No offense.


None taken.

1) The linked article itself said the guy "snapped"
2) The guy jumped onto and held onto a moving bus. These are not normally the actions of a sane person.

Saying that I was tactless for pointing it out (blaming the messenger) may be a valid argument . But you can't really argue that what I said was not valid.

On the other hand, arguing that it's somehow this guy's or the escalator's fault he was assaulted by a JCPD cop is not a valid argument. See the difference?

Next time I'll choose a different word other than "obnoxious". Maybe something more like "retarded" will work better.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 19:24
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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If their demeanor wasn't just what you wanted it to be take the time to think about what they might have just come from, what they know they'll be facing later tonight. Cut them some slack.


True -- there are some good cops.

As for the balance of them, we're supposed to be sympathetic now?

Each and everyone of them became cops by their own active choosing, and the fact is that too many of them are loose canons.

I don't know ---maybe they watched too much TJ Hooker growing up and thought police work would be a bit more glamorous ----- maybe they watched too much Miami Vice and thought the badge would be getting them laid right and left like Tubbs and Crockett ----- maybe (and quite likely) it's just the marginally-secure tough guys in junior high who never grew out of it ----- who knows.

Part of police work is knowing how to deal with all different kinds of people in all kinds of different situations. If they can't do that consistently, then they should turn in their gun with one hand, pull the other hand out of their ass, and work for the parking authority.

When members of the JCPD act consistently how they do, they get no sympathy from me for how tough their jobs are. In many ways, they make their jobs tougher by the way they act.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 18:46
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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There are plenty of good cops in JC. Talk to them and have them relate their day in, day out stories of what they deal with in this city of 240,000 people, many of whom are on the poverty line and under-educated. On a continuous basis they are subjected to things that would make most of us woozy if not down right scared to death. And then they get a call from someone shoved on the escalator and have to deal with that amongst the other things which are far, far more pressing. If their demeanor wasn't just what you wanted it to be take the time to think about what they might have just come from, what they know they'll be facing later tonight. Cut them some slack. More importantly, handle the little things on your own and don't cry for their help every time you think you've been wronged.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 18:29
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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orangutan98 wrote:
The "blame the victim" mentality I've seen exhibited by some on these boards is obnoxious.



How ironic. Yesterday, you called somebody's tragically deceased relative a "nut case" in a staggering demonstration of tactlessness. No offense.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 18:28
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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fasteddie wrote:
"You are lacking etiquette."
Them's fightin words where I come from. The usual retort is something like " and YOU sir, are a sniveling pantywaist, of questionable ancestry I might add." This is usually followed up with a slap across the face with a glove. Then it gets really ugly.



bwa ha ha

oh how you crack me up sometimes

Posted on: 2009/2/20 18:19
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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The "blame the victim" mentality I've seen exhibited by some on these boards is obnoxious.

Alastor is not out of line to request common courtesy on the escalator. It's not the escalator's fault for existing or being too narrow, and it's not Alastor's fault if he is in a hurry and wants to walk up the escalator. He politlely asked the big guy to move.

The big guy is an asshole for not moving, and he physically assaulted Alastor, which makes him a criminal. Some people may see this as a "minor" crime, but it's still a crime, and you would feel differently if you, or your mom, was the one who was shoved by this jerk.

Finally, the attitude that the JCPD showed should disgust and insult anyone who payes taxes and lives here. Shame on anyone who isn't outraged by this.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 18:05
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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So way to stand up to this sociopath (who may be a cop?!?)


Aren't they the same exact thing in this city?

If it makes you feel any better, you'll be over it in a day or two ---- but he'll clearly be an a**hole for life, and that's his deserved punishment. People who are like that clearly have a great deal of self-loathing.

Sorry it happened to you.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 17:15
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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alastor wrote:
As Malcolm Gladwell suggests, there are perhaps no greater indicators of crime than tipping points, even the most minute.


He just says that 'cause he used to get his ass kicked in the schoolyard.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 17:14
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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They should completely remove those stupid escalators anyhow...what is it? 10-12 steps. They're broken most of the time anyways. If I'm in a hurry I take the stairs, and I have a problem with people in a hurry trying to run or even making an attempt to step quickly up the escalators, which are far too narrow for that, again-that is why the port authority was so nice enough to grace us with a set of stairs next to the escalator. Like the others said, enjoy the 10 second ride. I can't say what I would do on either sides of that situation, but I was raised to throw down if I've been shoved/pushed etc., no matter how big the bastard is, I'm not saying it's right but you've got to defend yourself. You have to be prepared to fight if you are going to initiate communication or contact, that has to be going through your mind, even if you are "polite" about your problem with a stranger.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 16:23
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