This is just another case of govt pretending to look out for the citizens but are actually screwing us. No question the plumbers union is giving kickbacks to the local politicians to create work.

A similiar situation is happening on a national level.

The iron workers union is lobbying for sprinkler systems in every multifamily building in the entire country.

They are teaming up with the fire chiefs , mayors etc to push for it on a city , state and ultimately national level.

sounds great on paper but it costs hundreds of thousands for landlords already faced with increased costs and rent regulations.

What the politicians arent telling the tenants(the ones they are looking out for.. wink wink) is that its a capital improvement and the tenants will ultimately pick up the bill.

I say if politicians want to pass these laws thats fine but the state should have to give fixed rate loans to the landlords,associations etc, (stimulus $$$ ?) im sure obama can somehow say it will create jobs) and allow the landlord to pass along the capital improvement to the tenant.

not to mention how many bars, restaurants and businesses will be forced to close down or pass the cost on to the customers. Its already happening in the states that have passed this.

Also since all buildings will be sprinkled, I guess we wont need such a large fire dept. That should save the tax payers a bundle.

Once the fire dept unions get wind of that........

Has anyone acted on this letter and dropped the money required to have this replaced? I don't think the city understands how much this really costs with the blueprints, police...etc. Also, I don't think they understand what it is they actually want us to do. Is it something that can simply be performed by a plumber or is engineering involved. The cost varies between 2k vs. 22K. How is a building with 6 units supposed to afford that?! If enough people have received this letter and cannot afford this, is there some action that can be taken? Perhaps the city can extend the deadline or propose some sort of special loans?

Can someone explain how one would get "backflow" into the potable water supply. From where? Sewer lines and clean water line have long been seperate, haven't they?

How is my bathtub water, my shower effluent, my toilet refuse, or my dishwasher water going to get back into the clean water pipes?

I'm not a plumber but I DO know that these two piping systems have ALWAYS remained unconnected...it's the first rule of plumbing.

So, in what instance is dirty water going to contaminate clean water? Splain, Lucy!

Hi,

My condo association just got one of these letters. Can anyone recommend some plumbers and give some price ranges for this kind of work?

What is being requested sounds extreme.

Be careful with plumbers and get many quotes and DON't wait to the last minute, many plumbers can smell desperation and will eat you alive.

Just think of Joe the plumber

It costed our association around $1500 the first time when United Water requested it and another $600-$800 two months later for a different version that can be tested by "The City of Jersey City". It seems the city just wants there share of the yearly inspections fees as well

The whole thing was completed in about 4 hours or so.

I am currently researching this issue. If anyone is seriously having issues , PM me and I will put in contact with who you need. Whether its plumbing or engineer., but first let me check on this.
One person got a quote for something that looks major...excavation, and engineer are very pricey. Also depends on what size building. There isn't just one quote for everyone...it depends on the job.
I work in construction management , I deal with pricing all day everyday and I do hear the complaints but also the costs of this work is usually right on the money......
Like I said , I rather have people PM me and I will see what I can do.
Good Luck

Shouldnt the city offer grants or loans for this kind of crap? The city or state should loan the money to the association or landlord and charge a reasonable finance rate.

Rent control laws allow the landlord to pass this cost off to the tenant using a capital improvement formula.

it's bad news for everyone in Jersey City if this really cost $30,000.

Question: How many units was the condo building that cost $30,000 for the job?

thanks

Is anyone familiar with the letters that were sent out to various buildings (associations) in Jersey City in regards to BackFlow Preventors.

The following letter was sent from the Office of the Construction Official :

"The City of Jersey City is implementing a policy for BackFlow preventors. All structures that have backflow preventors are required to register them with this office and receive a certificate of compliance every year.

The Consumer has the responsibility of preventing pollutants and contaminants from entering his/her potable water systems or the public potable water system. The consumers responsibility starts at the point of delivery from the public potable water system and includees all of his/her water systems. The consumer, at his/her own expense, shall install, operate, test and maintain approved backflow prevention assemblies as directed by the authority having jurisdiction. The consumer shall maintain accurate records of tests and repairs made to backflow prevention assemblies and provide the administrative authority having jurisdiction with copies of such records. The records shall be on forms approved by the administrative authority having jurisdiction and shall include the list of materials or replacement parts used. Following any repair, overhaul, re-piping or relocation of an assembly the consumer shall have it tested to insure that it is in good operating condition and will prevent backflow. Tests, maintenance and repairs of backflow prevention assemblies shall be made by a certified backflow prevention assembly tester.

The fee for the certificate is $75 per annual inspection for each backflow preventor. For High Hazard Backflow Preventors the fee is $300. per year due to this agency having to do inspections and cerfificates every quarter.

Please respond to this notice within 20 Business days. Failure to comply with this notice shall result in a penalty and/or court action. "

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I understand that a few condo associations have complied with this policy and have paid in excess of $30,000 to conduct water tests, hire engineers, and had new backflow preventers and new sprinker systems installed.

But not all condo associations can cough up $30,000 to pay for costly engineers and a new sprinker system. I'm wondering how other people are dealing with this and if they're being asked to update their entire system? What kinds of penalty's do people face? Has anybody been taken to court? Was anybody's water shut off for not complying? And can anybody recommend an engineer?

Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Can someone please recommend some honest plumbers I can call about quotes for my building. Our system is not up to code. I don't know anything about this and don't want to get gouged. I think the 45 day turn-around is way too short. It looks like I am going to get hit with a $500 penalty.
Thanks for any recommendations!

We got a proposal from one plumber for our building, but the proposal is basically stating we have to excavate the street, install new backflow preventors, install new alarms systems, install a sump pump, hire an engineer to get building and sewage plans for over $30,000. That is not including digging permits and police presence. That is a lot of money!

I think we need a second opinion.

It's on the inside of the building but udrankwhat brings up good points about getting access to a spot to install. I could imagine that older buildings might not have the accessability and the pipes are probably old, complicating the job.

Quote:

Umm, it sounds like you're describing a sewer check valve, rather than a potable water backflow preventer, but you're the plumber.

Does the preventer go in the street at the mains connection or inside the foundation wall before the meter? If it's the latter, it doesn't sound like too big a deal.

Can anyone recommend a plumber capable of handling this?

Our building has already gone through this and it was a pain in the ass. Paid a considerable sum to get it installed and will now have to pay about $150 a year to be inspected.

I don't have a duck in this fight, so relax.

I am a licensed plumber, and a licensed Backflow tester with 28 years experience.

The requirement is a very good one.

Yeah, it hurts, like getting that dirty gash scrubbed clean by a nurse; but, it'll keep you from loosing the limb, or your life!

As to cost-

Many factors impact cost, so one price can't righteously "fit all."

Access [parking, distance, stairs(?), security, etc]
Complexity of piping
Space - if it is tight, difficulty increases geometrically
Location - some assemblies cannot be put in a pit; RPZs can quickly overcome basement drains/pumps, for instance ... may require additional piping to get it above flood-level.
Also, assembly must be testable and maintainable in-line here. Jersey may not have that requirement now/yet; but, keep that in mind to make long term costs stay down ... if tester has to get a ladder, squirrel in amongst other pipes, and juggle tools/parts/flashlight/climb down to retrieve fumbled screws/whatever....

My advice is, try to see it from the plumber's perspective in order to determine whether or not he's blowing smoke/gouging you - and every market has many who will - Then, consider how it will play out when it saves you from total bankruptcy [insurance does not cover contamination of public supplies], and how it will
be a for-ev-er maintenance cost, with annual testing and occasional repairs. If it is a small unit, changing out a failed unit might be just a few dollars more than getting a part installed- if it is large, the opposite is true. The new assembly will come with a warranty- that makes a difference of value sometimes.

Talk to three local plumbers, you might see if Angie's List has any to commend- then you might have enough info to avoid the hazards you are aware of.

Backflow preventers are required in all new contruction so it's no surprise that it's now being required in existing buildngs. Costwise, if it's more than several hudred dollars per BFP, you're getting ripped off.

Thanks for confirming this. My concern is that this installation and inspection work could cost a lot of money. This could result in a special assessment. Also, because the board are not plumbers, they feel that they could be ripped off by the plumber for unnecessary work.

Good luck with your buildings. I hope you will not have to pay too much for the work.

I can confirm this. I am the "super" of several small condo buildings in JC and all of the buildings have received this letter. Upon inspection, none of the buildings have this backflow preventor, they are all in the process of negotiating the cost of installation now.

My understanding is that this requirement came about because of the issue at Society Hill earlier this summer, where there sprinkler system ruptured because of increase in pressure by United Water. As a result of the rupture, much of the old mucky water in the fire line got "sucked" back into the city water system. I don;t know how true that is, it is just what I heard.

Hi,
My condo association received a letter from the Jersey City Office of the Construction Official, a division of the Housing, Economic Development and Commerce Department.

It says that the City of Jersey City is implementing a policy for BackFlow preventors. Consumers are responsible for preventing contaminants from entering the potable water systems or the public water systems, and have to pay for installation and inspection of such devices.

Has anybody else received this letter? If so, can anybody describe how to approach this? When I called the Construction office, the person said that this applies to the fire line, and that private licensed contractors certified by the city actually performs the inspection. I am wondering if anybody else can confirm this.

Thanks.