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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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With the Fulton Subway station redesign happening at the same time, the PATH trains should have been configured to better link up, with plenty of space to handle projected passenger demand to 2050 or beyond. Do we really need two landmark train stations so close to each other? Egotism.


When the PATH station is completed it will be connected to Fulton Transit center. Without going above ground you will be able to travel from the JZ tracks to the Winter Garden, and without going outside, you will be able to walk as far as the ferry terminal.

Posted on: 2015/8/21 10:26
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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Does a day go by when PATH doesn't break down in one way or another? It's generally a car equipment or signal problem. The cars are pretty much brand new and haven't a lot of the signals been upgraded? Everyday I generally get multiple PATH alerts and tonight everyone was jammed in....again.

Posted on: 2015/8/20 23:38
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I think that when the entire concourse is open, that funneling of people will be spread out over a larger area. No one could possible have designed the current situation as a permanent thing. Then again, these are the people who installed pure white staircases that are already filthy after 2 months of use.


I had assumed as much, until I witnessed what happened yesterday. As I see it, the problem is that the platforms are not wide enough, so the escalators are dumping people right onto the path of people leaving trains. So, even if people waiting for trains are spread out over the entire length of the platform (which is a questionable assumption, as we often see that people congregate in particular areas) I think you will have flow issues when trains are very crowded and people are trying to get down via the escalators. Going down via stairs is less problematic because you can stop in place. If more than five people get held up trying to get from the escalators to the train platforms, you will get some bunching up. If the train is particularly crowded, I can see the bunching up getting dicey.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 11:42
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WTC station at 6:25 PM yesterday:

The platform for Newark bound trains started to get really crowded, which my daughter and I noticed as we were riding the escalator down, only to find ourselves getting bunched up at the bottom/landing area, as a train had pulled in and a massive stream of people came out of it. Even my 13-year-old was able to assess the layout as a mess as she turned to me and remarked "this can get dangerous". There is very little space on the platforms to allow for the movement of people in and out of trains while lots of people are going up and down the stairs and escalators. Someone must have told the conductor to close the doors and take off immediately: "closing door" messages started to play as people were still getting out and doors started to close just as those who waited on the platform were starting to board.

Honestly, the experience was a bit disconcerting. What will happen on days when throngs of commuters, tourists and daytrippers start to converge during busy hours?


The worst infrastructure project in the nation! The Port Authority added nothing to capacity, and spent $4 billions on the 'Oculus', which is nothing more than an expensive piece of art. The PATH platforms are in a dangerous and silly layout. Design material choices are questionable at best - white marble is very slippery when wet! Someone is going to slide onto the tracks during winter.

With the Fulton Subway station redesign happening at the same time, the PATH trains should have been configured to better link up, with plenty of space to handle projected passenger demand to 2050 or beyond. Do we really need two landmark train stations so close to each other? Egotism.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 11:14
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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It'll be a real 9-yard enchilada then.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 11:03
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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1. when the whole kit and kaboodle opens, will the platforms be any cooler?

2. it's 14 years since 9/11 and still no visible secondary exits at the uptown stations - is this on anyone's agenda or do have to wait for a tragedy. Personally, if my trip involves a transfer to the subway, I use WTC. Uptown is just for places near the stations, like Citerella, etc.

3. did kit and kaboodle make you smile? I hope so, because then I've served a useful purpose today.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:29
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I think that when the entire concourse is open, that funneling of people will be spread out over a larger area. No one could possible have designed the current situation as a permanent thing. Then again, these are the people who installed pure white staircases that are already filthy after 2 months of use.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:20
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WTC station at 6:25 PM yesterday:

The platform for Newark bound trains started to get really crowded, which my daughter and I noticed as we were riding the escalator down, only to find ourselves getting bunched up at the bottom/landing area, as a train had pulled in and a massive stream of people came out of it. Even my 13-year-old was able to assess the layout as a mess as she turned to me and remarked "this can get dangerous". There is very little space on the platforms to allow for the movement of people in and out of trains while lots of people are going up and down the stairs and escalators. Someone must have told the conductor to close the doors and take off immediately: "closing door" messages started to play as people were still getting out and doors started to close just as those who waited on the platform were starting to board.

Honestly, the experience was a bit disconcerting. What will happen on days when throngs of commuters, tourists and daytrippers start to converge during busy hours?

Posted on: 2015/8/5 5:59
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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bodhipooh wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
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tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I think it already has bitten us.

Not to mention, my memory is hazy on this one, but weren't there some instances of some highly connected developer(s) having the chance to buy or lease land from the Port Authority at well below the market values? I know that was discussed on here, but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It's like the Port Authority was giving away some valuable land near the World Trade Center, or letting someone rent it for next to nothing.


Yes, although my memory is hazy as well, I recall the Port Authority let one of their high execs purchase valuable land for $1. I think it was at the WTC in the 80s but I'm not positive. I also believe no one ever got in trouble for this.

So no, the solution is not that tired liberal refrain of keep raising taxes. It is in stopping the massive amounts of government waste, bloat, and corruption, and rediverting this money to proper use.

Not to mention Christie committed to spending $1.5 billion to extend the Newark line to Newark airport. This will likely rise to $3 billion by the time it's all said and done. A colossal waste of money, considering you can get off at Newark Penn Station already and take a train to the airport. And if you are in NY, you can go to Manhattan Penn and take a direct train to the airport.

Divert this $1.5-$3 billion to upgrading critical infrastructure, not pissing it away.


I think you are both confused and mis-remembering the matter of the name and trademark of "World Trade Center", which was sold to a "non profit organization" headed by a former PA executive for $10 (!!!) and they license the name back to the PA (and many other places around the world) for an initial fee of 200K and an annual fee of 10K. Talk about sweetheart deals!!!

Adding insult to injury, this so called non profit is (was?) demanding free office space in the new WTC in exchange for continued use of the WTC name for which the PA is already paying their yearly fee. It's almost impossible to believe...


Yes, you are right, I was confused.

But the reality almost seems even worse. Not only did no one get in trouble for this blatant corruption, it is continuing because they want free office space!


Yup... fully agreed! It was later discovered that this former executive, who recently passed away, was getting paid over 600K annually by the "not for profit" group for doing the equivalent of one hour of work per week. In other words, that not-for-profit was just a shell organization to collect money on licensing a trademark that was acquired in a very questionable deal and was apparently just taking all of that money and paying it to its leaders. Just more PA shenanigans.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 11:00
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
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caj11 wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I think it already has bitten us.

Not to mention, my memory is hazy on this one, but weren't there some instances of some highly connected developer(s) having the chance to buy or lease land from the Port Authority at well below the market values? I know that was discussed on here, but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It's like the Port Authority was giving away some valuable land near the World Trade Center, or letting someone rent it for next to nothing.


Yes, although my memory is hazy as well, I recall the Port Authority let one of their high execs purchase valuable land for $1. I think it was at the WTC in the 80s but I'm not positive. I also believe no one ever got in trouble for this.

So no, the solution is not that tired liberal refrain of keep raising taxes. It is in stopping the massive amounts of government waste, bloat, and corruption, and rediverting this money to proper use.

Not to mention Christie committed to spending $1.5 billion to extend the Newark line to Newark airport. This will likely rise to $3 billion by the time it's all said and done. A colossal waste of money, considering you can get off at Newark Penn Station already and take a train to the airport. And if you are in NY, you can go to Manhattan Penn and take a direct train to the airport.

Divert this $1.5-$3 billion to upgrading critical infrastructure, not pissing it away.


I think you are both confused and mis-remembering the matter of the name and trademark of "World Trade Center", which was sold to a "non profit organization" headed by a former PA executive for $10 (!!!) and they license the name back to the PA (and many other places around the world) for an initial fee of 200K and an annual fee of 10K. Talk about sweetheart deals!!!

Adding insult to injury, this so called non profit is (was?) demanding free office space in the new WTC in exchange for continued use of the WTC name for which the PA is already paying their yearly fee. It's almost impossible to believe...


Yes, you are right, I was confused.

But the reality almost seems even worse. Not only did no one get in trouble for this blatant corruption, it is continuing because they want free office space!

Posted on: 2015/8/3 22:57
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tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I think it already has bitten us.

Not to mention, my memory is hazy on this one, but weren't there some instances of some highly connected developer(s) having the chance to buy or lease land from the Port Authority at well below the market values? I know that was discussed on here, but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It's like the Port Authority was giving away some valuable land near the World Trade Center, or letting someone rent it for next to nothing.


Yes, although my memory is hazy as well, I recall the Port Authority let one of their high execs purchase valuable land for $1. I think it was at the WTC in the 80s but I'm not positive. I also believe no one ever got in trouble for this.

So no, the solution is not that tired liberal refrain of keep raising taxes. It is in stopping the massive amounts of government waste, bloat, and corruption, and rediverting this money to proper use.

Not to mention Christie committed to spending $1.5 billion to extend the Newark line to Newark airport. This will likely rise to $3 billion by the time it's all said and done. A colossal waste of money, considering you can get off at Newark Penn Station already and take a train to the airport. And if you are in NY, you can go to Manhattan Penn and take a direct train to the airport.

Divert this $1.5-$3 billion to upgrading critical infrastructure, not pissing it away.


I think you are both confused and mis-remembering the matter of the name and trademark of "World Trade Center", which was sold to a "non profit organization" headed by a former PA executive for $10 (!!!) and they license the name back to the PA (and many other places around the world) for an initial fee of 200K and an annual fee of 10K. Talk about sweetheart deals!!!

Adding insult to injury, this so called non profit is (was?) demanding free office space in the new WTC in exchange for continued use of the WTC name for which the PA is already paying their yearly fee. It's almost impossible to believe...

Posted on: 2015/8/3 21:09
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Re: PATH (pathetic attempt at transporting humans)
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tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I think it already has bitten us.

Not to mention, my memory is hazy on this one, but weren't there some instances of some highly connected developer(s) having the chance to buy or lease land from the Port Authority at well below the market values? I know that was discussed on here, but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It's like the Port Authority was giving away some valuable land near the World Trade Center, or letting someone rent it for next to nothing.


Yes, although my memory is hazy as well, I recall the Port Authority let one of their high execs purchase valuable land for $1. I think it was at the WTC in the 80s but I'm not positive. I also believe no one ever got in trouble for this.

So no, the solution is not that tired liberal refrain of keep raising taxes. It is in stopping the massive amounts of government waste, bloat, and corruption, and rediverting this money to proper use.

Not to mention Christie committed to spending $1.5 billion to extend the Newark line to Newark airport. This will likely rise to $3 billion by the time it's all said and done. A colossal waste of money, considering you can get off at Newark Penn Station already and take a train to the airport. And if you are in NY, you can go to Manhattan Penn and take a direct train to the airport.

Divert this $1.5-$3 billion to upgrading critical infrastructure, not pissing it away.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 17:43
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tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I hear you, but any new station would have cost billions, and if there was any place in America to spend that kind of money on world-class architecture for its own sake, that was probably it. A less ambitious plan would probably have still required impossible sums of money to fix decades of neglect throughout the system.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 17:33
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Signal failures on the NWK-WTC line. Westbound train sat at JSQ for 10 minutes then the announcement was made that the train would terminate in Harrison. Figured I'd get an Uber from Harrison to Newark. Train continued to sit at JSQ. 5 minutes, 10 minutes. Said screw this and ran upstairs to get an Uber to Newark.

Missed my connecting NJtransit train by 60 seconds (of course that train left on time, Murphys Law).

I allowed a fucking hour to go from Grove Street to Newark, and it was a fail. This system has gone from reliable to absolutely shameful. How can we make our voices heard, legitimately?

The worst part is...what the hell were they doing when they shut this line down for a year? Wasn't it to fix the damn signal problems? Port Authority needs to have the Path forcibly taken out of their control.


I experienced the same thing during the winter when the signals froze. I don't think PATH has control over these signals or tracks these are owned by AMTRAK.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 17:03
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tommyc_37 wrote:
But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.


I think it already has bitten us.

Not to mention, my memory is hazy on this one, but weren't there some instances of some highly connected developer(s) having the chance to buy or lease land from the Port Authority at well below the market values? I know that was discussed on here, but my memory is fuzzy on that one. It's like the Port Authority was giving away some valuable land near the World Trade Center, or letting someone rent it for next to nothing.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 16:38
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But the money IS there. It was just used for a gigantic useless terminal at WTC that looks like a flying dove. This flying dove doesn't add any value at all to riders, yet cost a fortune, and that money could have made the Path more reliable. The Port Authority leadership needs to be ousted, or the Path needs to be taken away from them. Something. The misuse of funds is glaring and will bite us all in the ass.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 16:30
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I had a similar experience on Saturday and saw that work was being performed on the Hackensack River bridge, where one of the tracks was occupied by a service car.

PATH is certainly deserving of criticism, but their problem is symptomatic of our neglected and failing infrastructure throughout the nation. It doesn’t matter who hears our voices, the solution to the problem is money that isn’t there because of taxes we don’t want to pay, and that our government doesn't want to allocate.

Posted on: 2015/8/3 16:18
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Signal failures on the NWK-WTC line. Westbound train sat at JSQ for 10 minutes then the announcement was made that the train would terminate in Harrison. Figured I'd get an Uber from Harrison to Newark. Train continued to sit at JSQ. 5 minutes, 10 minutes. Said screw this and ran upstairs to get an Uber to Newark.

Missed my connecting NJtransit train by 60 seconds (of course that train left on time, Murphys Law).

I allowed a fucking hour to go from Grove Street to Newark, and it was a fail. This system has gone from reliable to absolutely shameful. How can we make our voices heard, legitimately?

The worst part is...what the hell were they doing when they shut this line down for a year? Wasn't it to fix the damn signal problems? Port Authority needs to have the Path forcibly taken out of their control.

Posted on: 2015/8/1 17:05
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UWS 81st and Columbus to WTC...takes a few hours with delays in the theatre district.

Posted on: 2015/7/26 18:28
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Re: PATH Train gripes
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pacoYtaco wrote:
Clearly the Port Authority does not care about their NJ riders.

At night time the trains are packed and stop in Hoboken first, sometimes sitting at the station for an extra 10 minutes.

The trains already run infrequently. There is obviously a demand for more service but they'd rather pack us up like sardines in a can.

I often walk from the Upper West Side to WTC to save myself the headache of being in a packed train since the NYC subway is packed along the line that runs to where I want to go, but at least it comes more often at night.

The Metrocard machines at Grove are often out of new cards or won't accept payments after 5PM on a weekday, which for some of us is when we're going to the city whether it be for work or other things. It's still costing us time and money nonetheless.

If only they allowed bicycles through the tunnel, but I'm sure they'd find a way to charge us for the smoggy air to breathe.
congrats on walking from upper west to wtc....how long does it take you?


He actually meant the lower east side, didn't ya Phil ;)

Posted on: 2015/7/24 21:39
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pacoYtaco wrote:
Clearly the Port Authority does not care about their NJ riders.

At night time the trains are packed and stop in Hoboken first, sometimes sitting at the station for an extra 10 minutes.

The trains already run infrequently. There is obviously a demand for more service but they'd rather pack us up like sardines in a can.

I often walk from the Upper West Side to WTC to save myself the headache of being in a packed train since the NYC subway is packed along the line that runs to where I want to go, but at least it comes more often at night.

The Metrocard machines at Grove are often out of new cards or won't accept payments after 5PM on a weekday, which for some of us is when we're going to the city whether it be for work or other things. It's still costing us time and money nonetheless.

If only they allowed bicycles through the tunnel, but I'm sure they'd find a way to charge us for the smoggy air to breathe.
congrats on walking from upper west to wtc....how long does it take you?

Posted on: 2015/7/24 20:29
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Yep. NYC is a bastion of sanity, morals, and regulated pricing.

A $2.75 path ride is too much but a $2.75 subway ride is fine?
I get a lot more reliability, more frequent rides, more communication, and more distance for my $2.75 Metro fare than I do out of my PATH fare. It's weird how when the PATH was $1.25 per ride, it was more reliable and ran more frequently on more lines than it does today.

Posted on: 2015/7/24 19:54
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Clearly the Port Authority does not care about their NJ riders.

At night time the trains are packed and stop in Hoboken first, sometimes sitting at the station for an extra 10 minutes.

The trains already run infrequently. There is obviously a demand for more service but they'd rather pack us up like sardines in a can.

I often walk from the Upper West Side to WTC to save myself the headache of being in a packed train since the NYC subway is packed along the line that runs to where I want to go, but at least it comes more often at night.

The Metrocard machines at Grove are often out of new cards or won't accept payments after 5PM on a weekday, which for some of us is when we're going to the city whether it be for work or other things. It's still costing us time and money nonetheless.

If only they allowed bicycles through the tunnel, but I'm sure they'd find a way to charge us for the smoggy air to breathe.

Posted on: 2015/7/24 18:21
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Yep. NYC is a bastion of sanity, morals, and regulated pricing.

A $2.75 path ride is too much but a $2.75 subway ride is fine?

Posted on: 2015/7/24 18:11
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Are there commuters complaining to the PATH officials? I'm so annoyed to put it bluntly, I'm thinking of leaving JC and going back to NYC! My livelihood is at stake.

Posted on: 2015/7/24 17:09
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Ever since the latest fare hike almost every day there's a problem with The Path Trains! Now the NY Waterways just hiked their fares it's a wonder why so many are leaving Jersey City to live across the river!


Posted on: 2015/7/24 17:00
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Wishful_Thinking wrote:

I for one really like the new WTC PATH station, and am looking forward to it being finished. I love how light, airy, architecturally engaging it is, and feel history will prove it was worth the time and money to create good design.

I can understand how Downtowners feel tho' - for you all it is more like taking the subway from you lovely neighborhood, more like living in the city, and so practicality is key.

Living in the Heights, my commute starts waiting for a bus on the corner of Palisade Avenue - shuttered storefronts, abandoned buildings, trash skittering in the wind - and ends at the WTC station - this beautiful, futuristic space, and up you pop into the amazing energy of Manhattan! The quality of the space is important; hopefully the quality of the ride will catch up.


I don't contest the fact that it's aesthetically pleasing, or that it time it will come to be regarded as a great public space. I would applaud the ostentation if it were matched by the project's practicality as a transit hub. The problem is that it's ornateness is not matched by its functionality.

For example, there were not enough stairs to handle the rush hour crowds on the temporary PATH platforms, and incredibly nothing has been done to increase the stairwell capacity of the new platforms. In fact, the new Hoboken platform has FEWER staircases than the temporary one had, so people are waiting even longer to get off the platform in the morning rush.

The oculus itself is a 100% redundant feature - nothing more than a glorified skylight, but particularly galling is the fact that the entrance through the oculus from ground level at Church St is certain to be continually infested with tourists taking photos, in the same way they perpetually block the Vanderbilt Ave entrance to Grand Central. The rendering makes it clear that this entrance is little more than a balcony designed to give the tourists an unobstructed vista against which they can pose like idiots.

Actual NJ & NY folks using the station will have to either fight their way through these morons and the crowds milling around the shopping mall below, or simply use one of the non-ostentatious subway entrances that will be located around the perimeter of the WTC site. The fact is that almost all of us will end up using these perfectly functional side entrances and explicitly avoiding the oculus and shopping concourse in order to make it to our trains without encountering the tourist horde. This project is for the tourists - we're just the suckers that are footing the bill.

Posted on: 2015/7/21 15:24
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Re: PATH and The Shithole of Port Authority
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Any word on when the new WTC PATH entrances are going to open? I heard that they were supposed to open a couple Mondays ago, but that obviously didn't happen. Being able to enter/exit on Liberty St will shorten my commute by at least a few minutes, and every minute counts.

Posted on: 2015/7/21 14:46
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Re: PATH and The Shithole of Port Authority
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You know election is nigh when every single fucking thread veers into politics. I am tired of it already and it is only 2015.

Posted on: 2015/7/21 13:31
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Re: PATH and The Shithole of Port Authority
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Quote:

user1111 wrote:
I am also a fan of the new WTC, the old WTC had cheesy retail and one dive bar. Hopefully they will get better retail options and maybe two dive bars with some swanky new bars.


Had always thought there was something biblical about Windows on the World. "Come to NYC and all this can be yours...". It was a great place to bring friends and family visiting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_on_the_World

Posted on: 2015/7/21 13:10
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