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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Keeping projects downtown, instead of actively integrating housing in a way that makes sense, will just hold Jersey City back.
.


Read the threads about incorporating moderate income units into market rate buildings - instead of parking spaces it's stainless steel appliances.

I'm all for getting rid of subsidized housing. We can start the process by eliminating mortgage and real estate tax deductions. I'm also in favor of eliminating subsidized higher education by getting rid of state universities.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 19:16
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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AlexC wrote:
You can model any HS in Jersey City to McNair, but if you do not get the top ranked, motivated, dedicated high achievers, PLUS, parents who are committed to the program and are willing to get involved in their child's education and the institution, it's not going to work. It's a partnership between the teachers, the administration, the student and their parents.

I think in this particular incident, those kids parents are to blame. They should be the ones held accountable. How? I don't know.

but I still think some kind of non-lethal, physical beating should be an option


[quote]
JasonLLEE wrote:
In response I would like to point out

Dr. Ronald E. McNair Academic High School on
123 COLES ST. is ranked #50 for the best High School in the United States.

So to answer your question, why don't the mayor use this H.S as a model to set the standards for the rest of Jersey City H.S?

as a newly transplant for San Francisco, the board and SF mayor's used a similar standard model of having underachieving H.S. follow Lowell (nationally ranked H.S.)as an example. Currently, San Francisco now has over 3 H.S ranked in the top 500 US schools.
[quote]


McNair is not a normal high school as an entrance exam is required to attend. They also accept students from outside the city.

Yes, the other High Schools should be more like McNair, I agree with you 100%.

Why should all JC high schools not try and get "the top ranked, motivated, dedicated high achievers, PLUS, parents who are committed to the program and are willing to get involved in their child's education and the institution"

JC would be infinitely better if those children and those parents lived here.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 18:49
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Article from February announcing demolition of some Hoboken projects:

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... using_authority_take.html

Posted on: 2013/4/30 18:30
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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I'm all for better use of the land, but JC still has lots of empty spaces that need to be filled in before we start worrying about the best possible use for poorly designed sites.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 17:09
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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heights wrote:
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
I'm as liberal as they come but no one has a "right" to a parking spot and below market rent. The city and state can provide but it should be on the best terms of the city and the rest of the residents as well.

Can the same be said for driveways ?


In a city? Yes. An individual driveway takes up street parking at an most 1 to 1 rate.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 17:07
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Don't hold your breath waiting for the Hoboken Projects or Holland Gardens to be demolished. They have been saying that for 15 years and hundreds of different proposals and plans have been floated. It's not gonna happen, just the same way Villa Boriquen isnt going anywhere.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 16:48
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
I'm as liberal as they come but no one has a "right" to a parking spot and below market rent. The city and state can provide but it should be on the best terms of the city and the rest of the residents as well.

Can the same be said for driveways ?

Posted on: 2013/4/30 16:39
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Just because there are crappy blocks elsewhere doesn't mean that that block isn't blighted.

I'm sorry but it is pretty hard to argue that that is good use of that land. There are much higher buildings all around and to add insult to injury, the residents of that complex all have parking when they are two blocks from the PATH while everyone else is paying $200+ a month in that area for a spot that probably isn't at their front door.

The projects in Hoboken are being demolished- and actually so is Holland Gardens in the next few years. The reason in Hoboken is that people actually got tired of the harassment like this in those blocks in addition to the dangerous conditions.

Hoboken is taking a proactive approach that recognizes the Hoboken or Jersey City of the era of projects is over, and people don't mind mixed income housing and want to be close to mass transit.

Keeping projects downtown, instead of actively integrating housing in a way that makes sense, will just hold Jersey City back.

I'm as liberal as they come but no one has a "right" to a parking spot and below market rent. The city and state can provide but it should be on the best terms of the city and the rest of the residents as well.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 16:14
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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I lived on that block of 4th Street for a few years. Those kids seem basically harmless. I've talked back to them before--in a funny way--but I've always been walking my 80-lb dog. And I think they knew I was from the neighborhood.

That being said, if drug deals aren't going down on that corner, all my years of watching The Wire have taught me nothing. There are older guys who hang out there at night and cars stopping by all the time.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 12:47
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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gstorm17 wrote:
Wow there has been a lot of responses to this thread since I posted and I feel that some of thread may have gone off topic a bit and that I should clarify some things.

First I want to reiterate that while the incident did take place near the low/affordable income housing I am in no way implying that the incident was caused by anyone who lives there. Quite in fact I walk by there enough to talk with residents when I walk by with my dog and to know the the very same stoop they were sitting on has a sign in the door from the resident who lives there asking people not to sit on the stoop.

These types of places exist for a reason and I am not going to assume that just because it happened in proximity to them that they are to blame. More than likely these were individuals from a different part of the city who wandered down here as this type of thing I have not seen happen and I've been here for awhile.

Now to the people saying that I should "man up" and that this type of thing happens in a city I say this. In my 36 years I've had to talk my fair share of abuse both physical and verbal from bullies and assholes. My skin is thick enough that I don't go crying home because i'm called a name and my ego is secure enough that I don't have to bash someone to prove my worth. Which is why we walked away.

As to why we called the non-emergency line. It's because I am a citizen of this city and have manned up to not simply ignore or become apathetic to things that are not right. I know that I am not the only one who walks by and this sort of incident won't be isolated to me, and it is for those others that I did it. If I wanted to see vengeance or retribution I would have stayed to make sure someone came and what became of them or would have concocted some erroneous story to make it more worse than it was to insure someone check it out.

I am fully aware of how big this city is and that the police can be busy but this why cities have precincts and patrols; to divvy up the city so that its more manageable and can respond to a range of incidents. My anger was more directed at the response of what do you want us to to do attitude. To allow this activity to continue unchecked or unchallenged effectively promotes the behavior and stalls any growth this city has of turning itself around. Yes it seems like a small incident but there will never be a large scale incident that makes things better. Change will only come from small incremental change very day and it must be persistent. I care enough about my city to make the call and I'm a bigger man for just walking away in the end.



Dude, don't explain yourself, you never said anything derogatory about that fug ass but well kept apartment complex. Fuck these people on here, you could be dying in the middle of the street from a hubcap slicing your throat open that fell off an airplane carrying cars and they would still blame you. This is a cynical city, brush yourself off and keep on being awesome, as for the trash harrassing you, just laugh in your head at the shitty shitty lives they have lived and will live. Karma my friend, is a miserable bitch.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 7:09
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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JCbiscuit wrote:
guess I'm in the minority, but I think they're doing something right at that housing complex. it's clean, well-kept, kids are often outside playing. yes, the harassing teens are assholes, but then teenagers in general are pretty unbearable.

and I agree, subsidized housing should be reserved for those in need. I've got a cousin who won't marry the father of her child because their combined incomes make them ineligible for the sweet deal they've all been sharing for years in Chelsea. a deal she gets as a "struggling single mother."

meanwhile, they just bought an eleven-hundred-dollar French bulldog puppy for their kid. chaps my hide.
I agree it is well ran. Villa more of community vibe then your average housing complex. They even have backyards for the homes and they are well kept.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 6:30
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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MonmouthMan wrote:
PEC0905 "Villa Boriquen and the surrounding low rises are not projects."

You are wrong, Projects is short for Government Housing Projects. They may not be as run down as some, but the same bs still goes on there....generations of able bodied folks getting to live downtown for next to no rent thanks to my tax dollars. I worked with a woman who lives here...her mom just bought a new Lexus, paid for half of it in cash. They need to audit that place and charge market rates those those who can afford to pay it.
In cities with "Projects" it is only the buildings that are OWNED by the Government and ran ONLY by that local housing authority commonly referred to as a Projects. In NJ most Housing Projects have the same look so once you know the look it's pretty easy to tell them apart from a privately owned low income housing building. The only time you might get a little confused is some have been knocked down into town homes through the use of HOPE VI projects. For example that has happened to Curries Woods, A. Harry Moore (Duncan), Lafayette and Montgomery is next. Most of JC projects has the words "Gardens" following the name. For example Holland Gardens, Hudson Gardens, Marion Gardens etc.

As for doing an audit and charging market rates to those who can afford it, just the fact they live in a apartment receiving government assistance means once a year they have to sign a lease that involves going over pay stubs, sources of income and even how much you have in the bank. Rent is a percentage of a monthly income usually about 30%. Some residents of government assisted apartments do pay market rate because the market value is 30% or less of their income. So you would have to ask a long list of questions to know if the mom actually was hiding income, she might simply be able to afford it and isn't breaking any rules.



Posted on: 2013/4/30 6:22
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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You can model any HS in Jersey City to McNair, but if you do not get the top ranked, motivated, dedicated high achievers, PLUS, parents who are committed to the program and are willing to get involved in their child's education and the institution, it's not going to work. It's a partnership between the teachers, the administration, the student and their parents.

I think in this particular incident, those kids parents are to blame. They should be the ones held accountable. How? I don't know.

but I still think some kind of non-lethal, physical beating should be an option


[quote]
JasonLLEE wrote:
In response I would like to point out

Dr. Ronald E. McNair Academic High School on
123 COLES ST. is ranked #50 for the best High School in the United States.

So to answer your question, why don't the mayor use this H.S as a model to set the standards for the rest of Jersey City H.S?

as a newly transplant for San Francisco, the board and SF mayor's used a similar standard model of having underachieving H.S. follow Lowell (nationally ranked H.S.)as an example. Currently, San Francisco now has over 3 H.S ranked in the top 500 US schools.
[quote]

Posted on: 2013/4/30 2:34
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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I woulds suggest that next time you stand up for yourself and harass the teenagers back. You should inform them that if they commit a crime they and their families can be kicked out of that PACO charity housing that you and other upstanding taxpaying citizens so graciously provide them.
Just be ready to get stabbed, it's probably 20% chance they'll just stick you.
Or just put your head down and keep walking like 99% of us would.

Posted on: 2013/4/30 1:40
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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In response I would like to point out

Dr. Ronald E. McNair Academic High School on
123 COLES ST. is ranked #50 for the best High School in the United States.

So to answer your question, why don't the mayor use this H.S as a model to set the standards for the rest of Jersey City H.S?

as a newly transplant for San Francisco, the board and SF mayor's used a similar standard model of having underachieving H.S. follow Lowell (nationally ranked H.S.)as an example. Currently, San Francisco now has over 3 H.S ranked in the top 500 US schools.




Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
This discussion is very interesting. First off, no one should be harassed and no, it doesn't come with living in the city. City living does not equate to being harassed. "City" is generally an urban settlement with a large population and with that comes more pollution, more cars, more restaurants, more people, etc as compared to the suburbs or rural areas. Harassment is not associated with "city". That is like saying terrorism is associated with Muslim which is also blatantly biased and completely subjective.

As far as project housing, I think it is safe to say that although the idea might be noble, the implementation and "checks and balances" has been a colossal failure.

But to get right to the point, our schools in JC are failing our children (any viable measure of this proves my point - test scores, graduation rates, reading level, math level, etc.) so when these children grow up to be delinquent teens and delinquent young adults, are you really surprised?

Forget about your tax dollars funding public housing, how about your tax dollars funding these failing public schools - Dickinson, Snyder, Lincoln, Ferris? By any reasonable measure, they should all be closed down ASAP.

And yes, I'm aware that there are bright kids at these schools and hard working teachers but when overall, you have a failing institution, one or two kids or teachers does not justify failing the majority of kids. It's like a company with 1 or 2 hard workers and 99% failures. Would that company ever last more than a day? Can you imagine having your tax dollars pay for that company to stay open and produce a piss poor product? Unfortunately, the piss poor product that our JC public schools produce are the delinquents you see in the streets.

So far, no one running - Healy or Fulop - has really addressed what they will do to make our children more competitive.




Posted on: 2013/4/30 0:39
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Wow there has been a lot of responses to this thread since I posted and I feel that some of thread may have gone off topic a bit and that I should clarify some things.

First I want to reiterate that while the incident did take place near the low/affordable income housing I am in no way implying that the incident was caused by anyone who lives there. Quite in fact I walk by there enough to talk with residents when I walk by with my dog and to know the the very same stoop they were sitting on has a sign in the door from the resident who lives there asking people not to sit on the stoop.

These types of places exist for a reason and I am not going to assume that just because it happened in proximity to them that they are to blame. More than likely these were individuals from a different part of the city who wandered down here as this type of thing I have not seen happen and I've been here for awhile.

Now to the people saying that I should "man up" and that this type of thing happens in a city I say this. In my 36 years I've had to talk my fair share of abuse both physical and verbal from bullies and assholes. My skin is thick enough that I don't go crying home because i'm called a name and my ego is secure enough that I don't have to bash someone to prove my worth. Which is why we walked away.

As to why we called the non-emergency line. It's because I am a citizen of this city and have manned up to not simply ignore or become apathetic to things that are not right. I know that I am not the only one who walks by and this sort of incident won't be isolated to me, and it is for those others that I did it. If I wanted to see vengeance or retribution I would have stayed to make sure someone came and what became of them or would have concocted some erroneous story to make it more worse than it was to insure someone check it out.

I am fully aware of how big this city is and that the police can be busy but this why cities have precincts and patrols; to divvy up the city so that its more manageable and can respond to a range of incidents. My anger was more directed at the response of what do you want us to to do attitude. To allow this activity to continue unchecked or unchallenged effectively promotes the behavior and stalls any growth this city has of turning itself around. Yes it seems like a small incident but there will never be a large scale incident that makes things better. Change will only come from small incremental change very day and it must be persistent. I care enough about my city to make the call and I'm a bigger man for just walking away in the end.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 23:58
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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guess I'm in the minority, but I think they're doing something right at that housing complex. it's clean, well-kept, kids are often outside playing. yes, the harassing teens are assholes, but then teenagers in general are pretty unbearable.

and I agree, subsidized housing should be reserved for those in need. I've got a cousin who won't marry the father of her child because their combined incomes make them ineligible for the sweet deal they've all been sharing for years in Chelsea. a deal she gets as a "struggling single mother."

meanwhile, they just bought an eleven-hundred-dollar French bulldog puppy for their kid. chaps my hide.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 23:35
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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I know the Lexus wasn't purchased with inherantance money and that it wasn't a gift. The girl I know told me when her mom moved into the place 22 years ago she was a struggling single mom who needed help. Now 22 years later she has a great job an no longer deserves to be livi g in government subsidized housing. She was able to buy the Lexus and pay half of it in cash because we subsidize her rent. She deserved section 8 housing 22 years ago, but no longer.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 23:13
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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We need to instill more respect for the commons, especially across ethnic/racial groups. People only treat the city like it's trash because they lack respect for their neighbors, and ultimately, themselves.

Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
This discussion is very interesting. First off, no one should be harassed and no, it doesn't come with living in the city. City living does not equate to being harassed. "City" is generally an urban settlement with a large population and with that comes more pollution, more cars, more restaurants, more people, etc as compared to the suburbs or rural areas. Harassment is not associated with "city". That is like saying terrorism is associated with Muslim which is also blatantly biased and completely subjective.

As far as project housing, I think it is safe to say that although the idea might be noble, the implementation and "checks and balances" has been a colossal failure.

But to get right to the point, our schools in JC are failing our children (any viable measure of this proves my point - test scores, graduation rates, reading level, math level, etc.) so when these children grow up to be delinquent teens and delinquent young adults, are you really surprised?

Forget about your tax dollars funding public housing, how about your tax dollars funding these failing public schools - Dickinson, Snyder, Lincoln, Ferris? By any reasonable measure, they should all be closed down ASAP.

And yes, I'm aware that there are bright kids at these schools and hard working teachers but when overall, you have a failing institution, one or two kids or teachers does not justify failing the majority of kids. It's like a company with 1 or 2 hard workers and 99% failures. Would that company ever last more than a day? Can you imagine having your tax dollars pay for that company to stay open and produce a piss poor product? Unfortunately, the piss poor product that our JC public schools produce are the delinquents you see in the streets.

So far, no one running - Healy or Fulop - has really addressed what they will do to make our children more competitive.




Posted on: 2013/4/29 22:56
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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This discussion is very interesting. First off, no one should be harassed and no, it doesn't come with living in the city. City living does not equate to being harassed. "City" is generally an urban settlement with a large population and with that comes more pollution, more cars, more restaurants, more people, etc as compared to the suburbs or rural areas. Harassment is not associated with "city". That is like saying terrorism is associated with Muslim which is also blatantly biased and completely subjective.

As far as project housing, I think it is safe to say that although the idea might be noble, the implementation and "checks and balances" has been a colossal failure.

But to get right to the point, our schools in JC are failing our children (any viable measure of this proves my point - test scores, graduation rates, reading level, math level, etc.) so when these children grow up to be delinquent teens and delinquent young adults, are you really surprised?

Forget about your tax dollars funding public housing, how about your tax dollars funding these failing public schools - Dickinson, Snyder, Lincoln, Ferris? By any reasonable measure, they should all be closed down ASAP.

And yes, I'm aware that there are bright kids at these schools and hard working teachers but when overall, you have a failing institution, one or two kids or teachers does not justify failing the majority of kids. It's like a company with 1 or 2 hard workers and 99% failures. Would that company ever last more than a day? Can you imagine having your tax dollars pay for that company to stay open and produce a piss poor product? Unfortunately, the piss poor product that our JC public schools produce are the delinquents you see in the streets.

So far, no one running - Healy or Fulop - has really addressed what they will do to make our children more competitive.




Posted on: 2013/4/29 22:24
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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.....

Thank you corybraiterman, well played.

Monmouth Man, cry me a river buddy. You are ignorant and need to wake up. Talking about audits because a Lexus was bought? What if it was a gift or inheritance money? Give me a break. If that's the case then the govt should also audit any cash purchases in Colts Neck and other rich towns.

How can you compare harmless harassment to rape and child abuse?? The same type of harassment occurs every day in rich and poor neighborhoods, prep schools and/or public schools. Brush it off and get over it.


Posted on: 2013/4/29 21:57
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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That real estate is valuable, might as well put our property taxes to better use and get in some market rate residents to join us in paying.


Many (half? more?) of those houses are market rate.

Quote:
I think it's the ugliest series of blocks in all of Downtown JC.


Clearly you've never ventured a mere block further to witness the uselessness that is a mere one block away. Manila and Marin between 2nd and 3rd are by far worse blocks. The weeds are overgrown, the trash is never picked up off the ground, the pavement is breaking, they're poorly lit and while i'm listing complaints, they never get snow shoveled in winter.

While we're talking about ugly sections, I'll add in the alleys between 5th and 4th, the actual high-rise low-income housing on columbus off washington and westerly blocks, most of the area west of monmouth and south of ferris, and most useless of all, the embankment.

all of you nimby shmucks who want to displace people to add development, howzabout we get rid of a crumbling wall before kicking families out because you don't like being near poorer people.

Quote:
And do not tell the folks who were harassed to pay these thug's no mind and to ignore them. That mentality is why the ghetto stays the ghetto. Folks litter, no ones says anything, kids don't go to school, no one says anything, folks rape and beat their kids, no one is punished and the, cycle continues.


I fear for your safety. That permanent slippery slope you live on must be near vertical.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 19:51
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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PEC0905 "Villa Boriquen and the surrounding low rises are not projects."

You are wrong, Projects is short for Government Housing Projects. They may not be as run down as some, but the same bs still goes on there....generations of able bodied folks getting to live downtown for next to no rent thanks to my tax dollars. I worked with a woman who lives here...her mom just bought a new Lexus, paid for half of it in cash. They need to audit that place and charge market rates those those who can afford to pay it.

And do not tell the folks who were harassed to pay these thug's no mind and to ignore them. That mentality is why the ghetto stays the ghetto. Folks litter, no ones says anything, kids don't go to school, no one says anything, folks rape and beat their kids, no one is punished and the, cycle continues. Not all of us grew up in the shitty conditions you must have, we are not all used to being harassed, and having to fight for our lives on a daily basis.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 19:39
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
#17
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Villa Boriquen and the surrounding low rises are not projects. It may not be the prettiest few blocks but whoever thinks this looks anything like a blighted housing project is clueless. The residents here are working class and pay rent. Redevelopment? No chance, this was here long before the gentrification of the past 10 years. Dont move in the vicinity if it bothers you so much.

The harassment is unfortunate and unacceptable, but you have no proof that the kids are from Villa Boriquen, so lets not make accusations here. Dont pay them any mind and next time they wont bother you. Grow up and move on, the cops have bigger fish to fry.

By the way, the projects in Hoboken are not being redeveloped, thats a pipe dream thats never going to happen. There are over 1300 units in Hoboken on the West Side and no chance that the city can force the residents out to "redevelop".

Posted on: 2013/4/29 18:35
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
#16
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Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
?There is no right in the world not to be offended. That right simply doesn?t exist. In a free society, an open society, people have strong opinions, and these opinions very often clash. In a democracy, we have to learn to deal with this.?
-Salman Rushdie

For a being that comes from the second most populated country in the world tell him...majority wins !

Posted on: 2013/4/29 18:23
Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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?There is no right in the world not to be offended. That right simply doesn?t exist. In a free society, an open society, people have strong opinions, and these opinions very often clash. In a democracy, we have to learn to deal with this.?

-Salman Rushdie

Posted on: 2013/4/29 18:02
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
#14
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I hate to say it, but I also wish they'd redevelop that stretch of Manila. Not because less fortunate people live there, but simply because that stretch is absolutely hideous on both sides of Manila. I think it's the ugliest series of blocks in all of Downtown JC.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 17:14
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Just wait till school breaks for the summer, then you can call the regular EMERGENCY number.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 17:10
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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Unless you are in immediate danger, there is no need to interact with these street urchins. Ignore them and move along.

I agree that dealing with the police department can sometimes be frustrating.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 17:07
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Re: Harassed by teens on Manila and 4th
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The projects on the west side of Hoboken are being demolished and redeveloped to mix low income housing and market rate condos/apartments.

I don't see why the same couldn't be done on Manila.

That real estate is valuable, might as well put our property taxes to better use and get in some market rate residents to join us in paying.

Also, I have walked in that area before and there are always people standing outside particularly by the convenience store on the project side.

No one is trying to kick people out of downtown, it doesn't mean that that land is poorly used.

And I also think that while it is unfair, having people coming from the city to plunk down big bucks to live right by the PATH will cause the police to take more notice of what's happening over there.

I do think that unfortunately in JC where we have violent crime on the other side of the city, we can't kick and scream about being yelled at, even though it shouldn't be happening.

Posted on: 2013/4/29 16:53
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