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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Thanks Outtadodge for your post.

First of all, yes, you did more than the average citizen and were wondeful in helping scare the 2 actors away from completing their crime. It is the actions of concerned citizens such as yourself that make a difference in building a better neighborhood. I'm not sure if you are the witness I spoke with but if you are then you read the police report yourself and told me that it was incorrect.

If you are not the witness I spoke with then you did not see the police report they sent out. At any rate, the police sent out a description of the 2 suspects and when the additional witness read the description, the clothing was interchanged and the age was incorrect. So the complete description was lost at the moment such as calling in a juvenile unit. If the police are looking for a hispanic 20-something male with a black shirt instead of a black male juvenile with a numbered red shirt, there is a very big discrepancy. The victim was probably terrified in remembering all the details.

It is important but very difficult in the moment of reporting a crime, to follow up with the police department specifically the Captain's office or the Community Relations Officer. At the time of a crime or report, information can be distorted by the time it's filed. And, as you said, the attending police were rushing the victim away and did not seek your witness account. Something that we will bring up at the next Downtown JC Watch meeting. That has been our experience in working with the Police Department. If possible, handing the attending police officer a piece of paper and your number would greatly help. I know it may seem like a special trip to the police precinct but you can also call the East District at 201.547.5470.

I don't want to discourage those who've helped but I want to make sure that your help is fully appreciated and utilized in an efficient manner. This info can be used in all districts of Jersey City.

Thanks for making a difference, others would not have gone so far. And if you are the witness I spoke to, good luck in your new ventures!

Posted on: 2006/7/8 21:58
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

OuttaDodge wrote:

I am the witness referred to, ...

...I would also like to add that the presense of those of us who were there, and our actions to help the victim must have scared the two muggers because they dropped her bag and she got her wallet back - cash, credit cards and all! So I think we did our part as good community citizens!


Great job, OuttaDodge!

I hope your username doesn't mean you're leaving/left JC and if not maybe we'll see you this Monday at the Downtown Jersey City Watch mtg.

Monday, July 10th @ 7PM at 39 Erie which is the entrance to Grace Church Van Vorst gym, through the red doors between 2nd and 3rd St.

See the Calendar link for more info.


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Posted on: 2006/7/8 18:03
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

pchops wrote:
It's important to offer your witness account. For example:
The last robbery (official term for mugging) at Hamilton Park had 1 witness who only saw the suspects for a fleeting moment. I went to Hamilton Park and did my own investigation and found a better witness who was in front of the victim for 2 blocks as the suspects followed them. This better witnenss did not come forward when the police arrived. Thus the fact that they were juveniles and the correct clothing description was lost.



I am the witness referred to, so would like to correct this erroneous statement.

There were several people who saw the "actors", and all of them, myself included, gathered around the victim to help. One of the witnesses went so far as to chase the muggers!

The victim was on the phone with the police, and so was somebody else who had been nearby. I and others fed the two of them with descriptions which they then repeated to the police.

When the police arrived, we were all still there with the victim, however the police did not stop to speak to any of us. Instead they whisked the victim away in the patrol car in order to locate the two muggers.

So I did come forward and I did provide what I knew. I did not follow up by making a special trip to the police station because I had nothing more to add. The clothing description was NOT lost... Two guys - one in a red t-shirt and the other in a black t-shirt. The only "lost" information was which guy wore the do-wrap.

I would also like to add that the presense of those of us who were there, and our actions to help the victim must have scared the two muggers because they dropped her bag and she got her wallet back - cash, credit cards and all! So I think we did our part as good community citizens!

Posted on: 2006/7/7 16:36

Edited by OuttaDodge on 2006/7/7 16:51:55
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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yeah well they saw me watching them - so hopefully none of my windows are broken...

Posted on: 2006/7/7 16:06
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Well, then. They deserved it.


Seriously now, thanks, E-F. We need to report all suspicious incidents to the JCPD and the watch groups.

Posted on: 2006/7/7 16:00
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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ha ha ha - why do you think I called the cops

Posted on: 2006/7/7 15:56
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Did they at least offer you some?

Posted on: 2006/7/7 15:53
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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pcchops, jc-i & bm, Thanks for the email addresse and info - I've contacted all in regards to incidents in my building's yard. Apparently a couple of the ramos park kids think it's better to smoke pot in my yard than on the stoop...

edit: cc'd landlord as well -

Posted on: 2006/7/7 15:51
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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"If this was me and I had the opportunity to stike back- I would. I think me + metal pipe = gang of minors up to no good."

Sure, that is of course if your name is Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent!!! :) And I suppose after you knocked a few of the "gang of minors" around a bit, that they would just quietly forget about your act of stupidity, I mean, bravery, and find another victim. WRONG because unlike "minors" of past generations, today's "gang of minors" strongly believe in retaliation in the strongest sense.

However, if you really want "the opportunity to strike back," at these brazen attacks against the common, vote against the political party in power that spends over a billion dollars per month in Iraq (jeez, I wonder how many more policemen that would add to JCPD? ), and created the debacle in New Orleans. Urban areas around the globe are inundated with crime in a world of the few haves and the burgeoning have-nots. Take a look at the big picture before you consider hurting someone or even worse yourself.

Posted on: 2006/7/7 14:04
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
From dictionary.com:

wild
intr.v. Slang wild·ed, wild·ing, wilds

To go about in a group threatening, robbing, or attacking others: “Police said that the youngsters... were part of a larger group of teenagers who were ‘wilding,’their slang for terrorizing and bullying” (Maclean's).

As for the GAs, the point that BM and I were trying to make is that they ARE around, and if you believe that they're not -- simply because you personally have not seen them -- then all you need to do is pick up the phone or write them an email and ask them directly whether or not they're still patrolling JC. It's not fair that you are making these assumptions, which are clearly wrong, without making an effort to unearth the facts.




My bad on wilding - m-w.com didn't have a definition for it (in the dictionary section at least) other than to call it a wild plant or animal.

This will be my last post on this (yeah, save your "good, shut up")... As far as the GA's go, you're missing my point. My point is that I haven't seen them. I walk about 8 blocks each way to and from the path at around 9:30AM and between 6 and 9PM every day. I also come home late every once in awhile after midnight, and I haven't seen them in months. They make their point known by being conspicuous, andhere's no secret recipe to how they fight crime. They're not being conspicuous. End of point.

Try the veal, and don't forget to tip your waitress.

Posted on: 2006/7/3 17:13
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Yes,...yes... JC INSOMNIAC, it is the Police Dept.'s Job to officially investigate. I did my own investigation as a concerned neighbor so this is just an example of how a resident can collect better information than the police. I'm a known resident, it's not really hard to ask around for info. Jersey City is really a small town...as you know.

This is what I did and what others can also do:

First of all, I'm a dogowner. So I took my dog to Hamilton Park that day with the print out on the 3 robberies where I met the better witness who was walking her 3 dogs. She was already talking about the incident with another dog owner.

This investigation took only 5 minutes and I called the Community Relations Officer with the correct information.

So, I'm using the word "investigation" freely here....

Sorry!

Posted on: 2006/7/3 16:26
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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So they apprehended ONE actor, but the article says TWO?

I think I might have seen the same two boys again when I was out on Saturday. I can't say for sure it was them, but it was on the same block and they looked very similar. They were riding bikes (and refused to get out of the middle of the road, even with cars hoking) down 8th Street near Erie.

I've also been keeping an eye on the house at the corner of 8th and Manilla, since that's where I saw them messing around prior to casing the old woman. Not sure if they belong to the house or if they were just nosing through an open gate.

I've also noticed that there is glass on the street in 2 places on 9th between Erie and McWilliams, so it looks like 2 cars had windows busted. That's right where the guy was hit with a pipe. What's going on there?

Posted on: 2006/7/3 16:25
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Wow, great job, pchops! The neighborhood watch (and JC itself) is lucky to have you as its leader.

Quick question though, and this is not to undermine the JCPD: isn't it their job to run around, investigate, and interview potential witnesses? I understand that we ought to help the JCPD by reporting incidents and such, but for you to actually have to look for witnesses and interview them using your own time & resources?


Quote:

pchops wrote:
FROM EAST DISTRICT:

Thank you for sending the below.

Captain McDonough was in the area (of the incident) when information was broadcasted via dispatch, and located an actor - that actor was apprehended and transported to our juvenile bureau, due to his age.

Thanks Butchcjc for the post. I will email you separately because your descriptions are valuable to the Downtown JC Watch.

For others who have valuable information, please contact the Captain's office immediately at 201.547.5470 as well as the Neighborhood Watch. Though the police may be satisfied with their apprehension, we are aware of a few juvenile hangouts and your descriptions are needed.

If you witness a crime and the police respond, PLEASE, PLEASE, go up to the police and give a witness reports.
If you are uncomfortable in approaching the police at the time of an arrest/investigation, you can call the 201.547.5477 number and say, "I am standing/residing a block away from the arrest and would like to give a witness account. However, I do not want to approach the police. Can the investigating officer call me at this number."

THEN, the following day, email the Captain or the Community Relations Officer at jcpdeastdistrict@yahoo.com.

For those residents in other wards, contact your councilperson and find out who your Captain and Community Relations Officer is.

It's important to offer your witness account. For example:
The last robbery (official term for mugging) at Hamilton Park had 1 witness who only saw the suspects for a fleeting moment. I went to Hamilton Park and did my own investigation and found a better witness who was in front of the victim for 2 blocks as the suspects followed them. This better witnenss did not come forward when the police arrived. Thus the fact that they were juveniles and the correct clothing description was lost.

Please, please please offer your information to the police at the time of the crime/suspicious activity. If you are pressed for time, hand them a business card/paper w/contact info. They will call you.

Sorry so long....

Posted on: 2006/7/3 15:38
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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thanks for the phone numbers in your post. they are good to have.

Posted on: 2006/7/3 15:37
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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FROM EAST DISTRICT:

Thank you for sending the below.

Captain McDonough was in the area (of the incident) when information was broadcasted via dispatch, and located an actor - that actor was apprehended and transported to our juvenile bureau, due to his age.

Thanks Butchcjc for the post. I will email you separately because your descriptions are valuable to the Downtown JC Watch.

For others who have valuable information, please contact the Captain's office immediately at 201.547.5470 as well as the Neighborhood Watch. Though the police may be satisfied with their apprehension, we are aware of a few juvenile hangouts and your descriptions are needed.

If you witness a crime and the police respond, PLEASE, PLEASE, go up to the police and give a witness reports.
If you are uncomfortable in approaching the police at the time of an arrest/investigation, you can call the 201.547.5477 number and say, "I am standing/residing a block away from the arrest and would like to give a witness account. However, I do not want to approach the police. Can the investigating officer call me at this number."

THEN, the following day, email the Captain or the Community Relations Officer at jcpdeastdistrict@yahoo.com.

For those residents in other wards, contact your councilperson and find out who your Captain and Community Relations Officer is.

It's important to offer your witness account. For example:
The last robbery (official term for mugging) at Hamilton Park had 1 witness who only saw the suspects for a fleeting moment. I went to Hamilton Park and did my own investigation and found a better witness who was in front of the victim for 2 blocks as the suspects followed them. This better witnenss did not come forward when the police arrived. Thus the fact that they were juveniles and the correct clothing description was lost.

Please, please please offer your information to the police at the time of the crime/suspicious activity. If you are pressed for time, hand them a business card/paper w/contact info. They will call you.

Sorry so long....

Posted on: 2006/7/3 15:30
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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FROM EAST DISTRICT:

Thank you for sending the below.

Captain McDonough was in the area (of the incident) when information was broadcasted via dispatch, and located an actor - that actor was apprehended and transported to our juvenile bureau, due to his age.

Thanks Butchcjc for the post. I will email you separately because your descriptions are valuable to the Downtown JC Watch.

For others who have valuable information, please contact the Captain's office immediately at 201.547.5470 as well as the Neighborhood Watch. Though the police may be satisfied with their apprehension, we are aware of a few juvenile hangouts and your descriptions are needed.

If you witness a crime and the police respond, PLEASE, PLEASE, go up to the police and give a witness reports.
If you are uncomfortable in approaching the police at the time of an arrest/investigation, you can call the 201.547.5477 number and say, "I am standing/residing a block away from the arrest and would like to give a witness account. However, I do not want to approach the police. Can the investigating officer call me at this number."

THEN, the following day, email the Captain or the Community Relations Officer at jcpdeastdistrict@yahoo.com.

For those residents in other wards, contact your councilperson and find out who your Captain and Community Relations Officer is.

It's important to offer your witness account. For example:
The last robbery (official term for mugging) at Hamilton Park had 1 witness who only saw the suspects for a fleeting moment. I went to Hamilton Park and did my own investigation and found a better witness who was in front of the victim for 2 blocks as the suspects followed them. This better witnenss did not come forward when the police arrived. Thus the fact that they were juveniles and the correct clothing description was lost.

Please, please please offer your information to the police at the time of the crime/suspicious activity. If you are pressed for time, hand them a business card/paper w/contact info. They will call you.

Sorry so long....

Posted on: 2006/7/3 15:30
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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From dictionary.com:

wild
intr.v. Slang wild·ed, wild·ing, wilds

To go about in a group threatening, robbing, or attacking others: “Police said that the youngsters... were part of a larger group of teenagers who were ‘wilding,’their slang for terrorizing and bullying” (Maclean's).

As for the GAs, the point that BM and I were trying to make is that they ARE around, and if you believe that they're not -- simply because you personally have not seen them -- then all you need to do is pick up the phone or write them an email and ask them directly whether or not they're still patrolling JC. It's not fair that you are making these assumptions, which are clearly wrong, without making an effort to unearth the facts.


Quote:

glx wrote:

No thanks, I have no reason to bug them. I'm sure they have better things to do.

I just found it comedic that they're being "notified" as if they're some official agency when their main benefit (and crime-fighting technique) is being visible and they aren't being seen.

If people have seen them around, more power to them. They showed up in force when the press was around and it sounds like now every once in awhile a couple will show up here and there. I think we can all agree they aren't doing much good at 5pm on Grove Street. If they're around, I think we'd all sure like to see them walking around HP or VVP in the evening/late nights when most of these incidents seem to be taking place... Otherwise, they might as well be the cops.

PS - what's "wilding", anyways?

Posted on: 2006/7/3 7:04
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Hey, glx, why don't you just call 'em and ask them yourself? It's not like their phone number isn't public info as jc_insomniac, pchops and myself have posted their contact info numerous times.


No thanks, I have no reason to bug them. I'm sure they have better things to do.

I just found it comedic that they're being "notified" as if they're some official agency when their main benefit (and crime-fighting technique) is being visible and they aren't being seen.

If people have seen them around, more power to them. They showed up in force when the press was around and it sounds like now every once in awhile a couple will show up here and there. I think we can all agree they aren't doing much good at 5pm on Grove Street. If they're around, I think we'd all sure like to see them walking around HP or VVP in the evening/late nights when most of these incidents seem to be taking place... Otherwise, they might as well be the cops.

PS - what's "wilding", anyways?

Posted on: 2006/7/3 1:05
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

glx wrote:
Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
Don't worry. Just because you personally haven't seen them doesn't mean that they're not around.


No, really, they're not - and I appear to not be the only person who agrees with this.

Guardian Angels' MO is not to be "hidden". They make their point by being visible and around in the community. They're not some stealth crimefighting group.

Where did you last see them?


I saw two of them around 5pm on Friday walk south on Grove and then turn west on Wayne.

I see them a couple of times a week, most often in the late afternoon/eve. along Grove.

Posted on: 2006/7/2 23:24
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

glx wrote:
Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
Don't worry. Just because you personally haven't seen them doesn't mean that they're not around.


No, really, they're not - and I appear to not be the only person who agrees with this.

Guardian Angels' MO is not to be "hidden". They make their point by being visible and around in the community. They're not some stealth crimefighting group.

Where did you last see them?


Hey, glx, why don't you just call 'em and ask them yourself? It's not like their phone number isn't public info as jc_insomniac, pchops and myself have posted their contact info numerous times.

So just call Mark Adams who is the Jersey City Guardian Angels Chapter Leader and ask him yourself where they've been here in downtown JC if you haven't seen them.

Here's the contact info:

Mark Adams-Chapter Leader
Jersey City Guardian Angels
guardianangelsnynj@hotmail.com
(201) 304-5167

Posted on: 2006/7/2 23:01
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
Don't worry. Just because you personally haven't seen them doesn't mean that they're not around.


No, really, they're not - and I appear to not be the only person who agrees with this.

Guardian Angels' MO is not to be "hidden". They make their point by being visible and around in the community. They're not some stealth crimefighting group.

Where did you last see them?

Posted on: 2006/7/1 23:35
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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The two boys that I saw were young - probably teenagers (16-18?), African American, really short or nearly shaved hair, probably 5'8" to 5'11" (I'm bad with heights, but they were taller than the old lady), and wearing jeans with somewhat baggy white t-shirts.

I'm trying the police again today and hopefully get through.

Posted on: 2006/7/1 16:05
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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I would really like to hear a description of the thugs, too. I was under the impression that it was a group of kids, and have been keeping my eye out, but now it sounds like it's two kids.

I saw the GA's probably a month ago walking toward HP. It was the first time I'd seen them in this area, and it was around the time people were thinking a gang was meeting there on Sunday nights.

Posted on: 2006/7/1 15:29
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Don't worry. Just because you personally haven't seen them doesn't mean that they're not around.

Posted on: 2006/7/1 14:53
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Quote:

glx wrote:
Guardian Angels? What a joke.
After they had their little press party and got their 5 more seconds of fame, I haven't seen a single one around at night or during the day... At least not in probably 2 months.


Good point. Where are the Guardian Angels?

Posted on: 2006/7/1 14:50
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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jc_insomniac wrote:
sends them to the JCPD, the Guardian Angels, and the growing DowntownJCWatch mailing list.
Again, thanks and stay safe!


Guardian Angels? What a joke.
After they had their little press party and got their 5 more seconds of fame, I haven't seen a single one around at night or during the day... At least not in probably 2 months.

Posted on: 2006/7/1 14:45
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
#31
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Butchcjg, first off thanks for doing your little bit to help your neighbor out. As you noted, the old lady was probably really scared, just as you were. But that little act of making your presence known to those teens may very well have just deterred a crime that we might've been reading here or in the local papers this morning.

Anyway, I forwarded your post to the Downtown JC Watch group, which compiles these incident reports and sends them to the JCPD, the Guardian Angels, and the growing DowntownJCWatch mailing list. If you have more info, such as a description of the teens, please post them here, and also email the watch group directly at *DowntownJCWatch@gmail.com* to make sure that these incidents are reported properly.

Again, thanks and stay safe!

Posted on: 2006/7/1 13:43
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
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Yes Butch you should tell the police. What did the kids look like, how old and how were they dressed?

You really help the older woman!

Posted on: 2006/6/30 23:21
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
#29
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I'm trying to contact the police (no one answering the line I'm forwarded to, errr!) because I think I saw something related to this crime.

I was walking home around 9pm on Wednesday (after a movie) on 8th. I saw two young (probably teenaged) kids in a yard on Manilla and 8th. It didnt seem like it was their house, but rather that they went into the backyard without permission. They quickly came back out. The whole thing seemed fishy, then they started following this old woman really, really slowly. They got extremely close to her (like 5 inches behind her) and were just sort of "casing" her. They could have easeily passed her, but instead kept right by her side. So, I jingled my keys and they looked back and saw me, so they walked quickly away and turned right on Erie (heading toward 9th.)

I passed the old woman, who looked really scared. She was clinging onto her purse. Then we were in a lighted area (and some other folks were coming that way), so I walked quickly home because I was scared too. The two boys were walking down Erie toward 9th at that point, which would put them in the crime scene area at the time of the crime.

I dont know for sure that it was them, but their behavior before had me scared and made me feel like something was not "right."

So it's worth letting the police know, if they ever pick up the phone!

Posted on: 2006/6/30 22:23
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Re: Assault/wilding incident on 9th and Erie
#28
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I'd like to bring up again the fact that during the summer, the highest street crime period, 20% of the JCPD is on vacation at any one time. That's like giving the snowplowers the winter off. What a sweet contract.

Posted on: 2006/6/30 20:33
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