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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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JSalt wrote:

I think you raise legitimate concerns. And does anyone have any information on their actual effectiveness at preventing crime?


Here's a NYT article that appeared last August. The key to your question is the last sentence of this article:

"The neighborhood patrols that Mr. Kapell wants should be the alert eyes and ears of an engaged community, not a squad of strutting quasi-cops. "

Only the Mayor can fire Troy, but each of us can be the "...alert eyes and ears of an enganged commuity...", or NOT. Join your neighborhood groups, come to the mtgs., come to council mtgs., vote. Government is about each of us stepping up and it is not about what services "we should get", but about what "services we demand".

With all their good intentions, Curtis Sliwa has said before, and will tell you now that a world of "Guardian Angels" will not make the difference in crime: it takes the engagement of the commumity, schools, teachers, parents and yes the police with the support they need to engage improvement and "effectiveness". Each of us know if we're "down with that" or not.

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August 7, 2005

Angels Out East


If you thought the Guardian Angels -- those young men in red berets and studded wristbands, subduing the urban jungle through kung fu -- went out with the 1980's, think again. Feathered hairdos, leg warmers and subway graffiti are gone, mostly, but the Angels never went away. Curtis Sliwa, the group's founder, has kept his organization busy opening chapters in cities and towns all over the country, where all kinds of people -- state representatives, mayors, city council members, even the governor of Hawaii -- have welcomed them with open arms, either forgetting or not caring about the Angels' reputation as vigilante goofballs.

Years of bad press and skepticism have not dimmed the appeal of the Angels' anticrime patrols. How well they work is highly debatable, but there is no denying that they are highly visible, highly assertive and cheap. This has proved irresistible to officials who lack the means or patience to fight petty crimes the old-fashioned way: by hiring more police officers, say, or organizing community patrols themselves, or steering more jobs and opportunity into depressed neighborhoods.

David Kapell, the mayor of Greenport, is one such official. He has a low-level drug problem in Greenport, that pretty village with the carousel and ferry near the end of the North Fork, where tourists mingle with a substantial black and Hispanic population in one of Long Island's closest approximations of racial diversity. The village is a motley collection of summer cottages and gracious old bed-and-breakfasts and nearly all of the government-subsidized rental housing in the Town of Southold. Just beyond its antique-and-potpourri zone are an all-night convenience store, a scruffy park and rundown basketball court -- nighttime magnets, the mayor says, for dealers and delinquents.

To Mr. Kapell, the Guardian Angels provide a ready-made model for getting the neighborhood involved in fixing these and other problems. Disaffected youths, he says, will look up to proud Angels and stare down lowlife criminals -- and then, he hopes, turn them in. The Angels, who are unarmed and have sworn off martial arts (except for ''verbal judo''), swear by the effectiveness of this ''rats and snitches'' approach to deterring crime.

The energetic Mr. Kapell is right about a lot of things -- that

a crime solution, for example, must involve the community and engage young people, and be conducted with the full knowledge and cooperation of local law-enforcement.

He says he has worked hard to get the village behind his plan, through public meetings and a recent walking tour involving Mr. Sliwa and dozens of residents.

He is also well aware that what he calls ''technical fixes,'' like brightly lighted parking lots and security cameras, often promise more than they deliver. And he is skeptical that any innovative crime-prevention initiatives will be coming anytime soon from the Southold Town Police Department, which lacks a significant number of minority officers and has shown little interest in the kind of ground-level community policing that Mr. Kapell is trying to do on the cheap.

But given the Guardian Angels' dubious reputation and the dangers that are always present when regular citizens willfully confront lawbreakers, there is a heavy burden on Mr. Kapell to do this right -- by making sure the Angels work closely with the town and county police, establishing rigorous protocols for recruiting and training patrol members and imposing clear rules that place the highest priority on nonviolence and good sense. The neighborhood patrols that Mr. Kapell wants should be the alert eyes and ears of an engaged community, not a squad of strutting quasi-cops.

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company


Posted on: 2006/2/11 20:39
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I am overcome with joy. This is great news. The guardian angels were very effective in NYc in the 70's throught the and 90's. They laid the groundwork for the for the Rudi Guiliani era. The only ones more upset than the criminals were the ineffective police precincts which were exposed.

By having the guardian angels presence in JC, the police in jc will once and for all be exposed as incompetent. maybe we can also expose this mayor as well.

Believe me, Guiliani would have dumped this troy guy so quicky his head would spin.

Healy needs to go as well. the guardian angels will take the first step to really attack crime at the street level.

Once people see how effective their presence is they will also realize what a fraud the local officials are as well.

Sliwa for mayor.

Posted on: 2006/2/11 20:24
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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EthanCrane wrote:
I'm kind of alarmed by how quickly people are jumping on the GA bandwagon. From what I've read, they're often badly trained and too often harrass young people who simply fit a certain demographic. In other words, they're bullies who believe they have right on their side. If they and their really ugly hats want to come, I guess there's no stopping them, but we need to watch the watchmen, you know?


I think you raise legitimate concerns. And does anyone have any information on their actual effectiveness at preventing crime?

Posted on: 2006/2/11 20:11
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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EthanCrane wrote:
From what I've read, they're often badly trained and too often harrass young people who simply fit a certain demographic. In other words, they're bullies who believe they have right on their side.


Where have you read that?

Posted on: 2006/2/11 20:08
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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EthanCrane wrote:
I'm kind of alarmed by how quickly people are jumping on the GA bandwagon. From what I've read, they're often badly trained and too often harrass young people who simply fit a certain demographic. In other words, they're bullies who believe they have right on their side. If they and their really ugly hats want to come, I guess there's no stopping them, but we need to watch the watchmen, you know?


Get robbed, mugged or worse a couple times [hell, just once] and see if your mind gets changed.

Our building was robbed 3 months ago [and we actually faced off against the SOB while he was doing it by total accident] and let me tell you, it's dangerous, scary, infuriating and makes you feel endlessly fearful.

We stress everytime we leave now, at night when we hear sounds we aren't familiar with... all of it. Getting robbed leaves scar tissue that doesn't heal...


ever.


Posted on: 2006/2/11 19:28
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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EthanCrane wrote:
...If they and their really ugly hats want to come, I guess there's no stopping them, but we need to watch the watchmen, you know?

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Posted on: 2006/2/11 19:25
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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This is fantastic news!

Finally something of value for JC. Finally something newsworthy as a topic for the JCList as well.

Our door will be open for any and all GA's who need some food, drink, bathroom action.

The police should be ashamed... of course they aren't, they're too busy eating doughnuts and being in the wrong place when 'crimes' are happening elsewhere.

Go Curtis Go!!!!!!!!!!

Further evidence that, Common Folk get shit done... not 'hired' super-lifer politicos, career-bs'ers and the like.

It's time to take back our streets and make them safe from those who aim to harm, take advantage of, steal [and worse] from good, common folk.

Posted on: 2006/2/11 19:22
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I'm kind of alarmed by how quickly people are jumping on the GA bandwagon. From what I've read, they're often badly trained and too often harrass young people who simply fit a certain demographic. In other words, they're bullies who believe they have right on their side. If they and their really ugly hats want to come, I guess there's no stopping them, but we need to watch the watchmen, you know?

Posted on: 2006/2/11 19:19
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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In case anyone missed this info at beginning of this thread:

Sunday, 2/11, at 4pm - Guardian Angels will meet
residents at Dixon Deli on Varick (near Columbus) to
discuss Crime Prevention.


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Posted on: 2006/2/11 17:55
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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The one I saw was in red. And looked grumpy.

Posted on: 2006/2/11 14:49
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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djh101 wrote:
Except this guy was wearing blue jacket and blue beret, and I thought it was a signature red that they wore.


Dude! Shhhhhhh...... he's undercover.......

Mark.

Posted on: 2006/2/11 12:12
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I think I just had my first sighting also.....in front of Walt's at 8th and Jersey.

Except this guy was wearing blue jacket and blue beret, and I thought it was a signature red that they wore. I don't know....maybe it's just Curtis who wears the red.

Anyway, someone (who knows) please tell us how long this is supposed to last. I'll gladly spread the word among the Guardian Angels I see in the Hamilton Park area that they can ring my doorbell up until midnight for coffee, danish, soup, or whatever. Somebody fill us in.

By the way, I think this is friggin' awesome, and we're very fortunate to have this happen.


Posted on: 2006/2/11 0:44
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I just had my first GA sighting in JC. He was waiting for the PATH train at Grove. Yep, he was wearing the beret.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 21:48
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Will they be wearing those red berets?

Posted on: 2006/2/10 20:56
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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The minute the G.A. start patroling your city you have admited failure.We have an 85 million dollar police budget,they can do the job but the management need's to change.They need to do a nation wide search for a police chief like most big city's do.Red beret's belong in camden not newark ave.It is time for the police brass to stop spinning statistic's and just get the job done.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 19:51
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Quote:

RABBITRABBIT wrote:
b: why is downtown getting this attention? cause we're not part of the problem. It's a little difficult to call the police on crime in your area when the criminals are from your family and are your nieghbors - hence the fact that shit never happened in parts of JC that are more crime ridden. law abiding citizens in those areas are/were justified in keeping quiet. they live with the crime daily. squeaky wheel gets the grease. hoepfully a success and attention in DTJC will spread across to the next neighb and the next after that


Can you find some other way to be "amusing" rather than insulting people? No answer required.


I don't see anything written in rabbitrabbit's post that could be considered and insult.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 17:59
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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RABBITRABBIT wrote:
b: why is downtown getting this attention? cause we're not part of the problem. It's a little difficult to call the police on crime in your area when the criminals are from your family and are your nieghbors - hence the fact that shit never happened in parts of JC that are more crime ridden. law abiding citizens in those areas are/were justified in keeping quiet. they live with the crime daily. squeaky wheel gets the grease. hoepfully a success and attention in DTJC will spread across to the next neighb and the next after that


Can you find some other way to be "amusing" rather than insulting people? No answer required.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 17:38
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I think that people are missing the purpose of the GA.

In addition to patrolling downtown(in NYC, Central Park) in order to be a visual deterrant, the GA also infiltrate the neighborhoods that the perps come from. They set up an infrastructure of education and opportunity for urban youth. They attempt to instill an anti-crime mindset in potential criminals by providing after-school activities and outreach. This is what they did in the Bronx. This is why their training center is in Hell's Kitchen, and their main office is on Fifth Avenue. They support diversity. The only restriction from joining the GA is that you must not have a felony record.

Rather than urban youths being pissed that the yuppies are moving in...I'd like for them to be pissed that someone is robbing a deli in their city and slapping the female business owner around in the process.

I wouldn't thumb my nose at the GA coming to Jersey City because we are gentrifying. Thank god we're gentrifying.

-Toe

Posted on: 2006/2/10 17:11
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I understand...but I think we're at a junction in the city's history where many, many toes need to be stepped on.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:46
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Some of you are obsessed with "yuppies".

If you read the article:

"Sliwa said Mario Moreira is a former Guardian Angel, and friends who are currently members told him about the robbery. They asked that the Guardian Angels come to Jersey City, Sliwa said."

And I don't think Mirna Moreira and Mario Moreira would think of themselves as yuppies.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:44
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Curtis Sliwa for mayor!

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:36
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I don't think the police see to kindly to the Guardian Angels. So if the Guardian Angels come into an area they really have to be careful about stepping on toes. I think that is what Mariano Vega was implying.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:32
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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MrGrieves wrote:The post was meant to be more of an observation, not a rant, not a complaint. The fact is, things are worse in other parts of JC. I think it's ironic that the GA is only now coming to the aid of downtown JC. Where were they 20 years ago? Regardless, I never said they shouldn't come.

Call it playing the yuppie card (as you put it) or whatever. The fact is, downtown is only receiving this kind of attention because it's becoming gentrified. And I wonder what makes you think you know me so well and that I haven't complained about crime where I live, 12 blocks from groove street.


a: the GA weren't in JC 20 years ago cause they were too busy in the Bronx, Brooklyn and NYC

b: why is downtown getting this attention? cause we're not part of the problem. It's a little difficult to call the police on crime in your area when the criminals are from your family and are your nieghbors - hence the fact that shit never happened in parts of JC that are more crime ridden. law abiding citizens in those areas are/were justified in keeping quiet. they live with the crime daily. squeaky wheel gets the grease. hoepfully a success and attention in DTJC will spread across to the next neighb and the next after that

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:31
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Also you can search the DUMB name "Make MY Park" really poor choice of words -- It should be "Make OUR Park" or better

"Rails to Trails - Let's make a park"

Activits should change that name at once!

Quote:

Skadave wrote:

And I would also suggest learning the phrase, "is this the hill I want to die on?", if you want to debate the embankment (people are very passionate about it) :)

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:31
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Mariano Vega said. "(But) police could see them as an organized gang and those things can cause problems if there is not organized discussion.">>

It is difficult to believe Vega said that.

If he did...I really have no idea what more could be said.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:29
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Thanks

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:26
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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JimmyConway wrote:
You are exactly right, the more families and young professionals that move into the downtown area, the more targets there are for the petty thieves and muggers. I just moved here, near that big stone wall structure on 6th street (what is that anyway?) and I have noticed some cars broken into and some roving youths that look like they are up to no good. You just have to be smart and have your wits about you and you should be able to avoid putting yourself in a vulnerable position.


That big stone wall is called the embankment. If you want more information than you could possibly want about this structure I would suggest putting the word embankment in the search box in the upper left corner of the site.

And I would also suggest learning the phrase, "is this the hill I want to die on?", if you want to debate the embankment (people are very passionate about it) :)

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:22
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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Better services and attention don't simply come to gentrified areas. They come because the people in those areas demand it. If people in the ungentrified areas want these services, they need only do the same.

Yes, I know, there are a number of reasons why they don't. Some good, some bad. But the fact remains...

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:04
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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You are exactly right, the more families and young professionals that move into the downtown area, the more targets there are for the petty thieves and muggers. I just moved here, near that big stone wall structure on 6th street (what is that anyway?) and I have noticed some cars broken into and some roving youths that look like they are up to no good. You just have to be smart and have your wits about you and you should be able to avoid putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 16:03
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Re: The Guardian Angels are Coming
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I think we can all agree that no one wants to see any innocent people in this town mugged, robbed or raped, whether they're making six figures or living below the poverty line. As it happens, we may actually be seeing an increase in non-violent crimes partly BECAUSE downtown is becoming gentrified -- not just that it's getting more attention. As I've pointed out a few times already, in 2004 (last year for which stats have been released) Hoboken had more non-violent crime per capita than Jersey City.

If you want to rob someone, you go where the money is.

Posted on: 2006/2/10 15:56
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