"On a side note about the quality of changes the police are putting into effect - Saturday night around midnight, I watched a JCPD car drive right past about half dozen males (some looked underage) with open containers cross the street as the cop drove by. They then proceeded to throw and smash their bottles on the street, sidewalk and someone's property. Underage with open containers in the street gets ignored - good job JCPD!!!"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Oh, yes. How I sympathize; but it has always been the policy/non-policy of the cops here to ignore crime or the
strong potential for trouble and crime. I cannot tell you
how many dozens and scores of times I have seen
cop cars casually cruise right past scenes and events
happening right out in the open on the street or sidewalk that should have made them stop and investigate. But they
never did such kind of policing, at least not since the race riots of the seventies, and probably never will again.
The police dept,, being that it got into so much trouble in the
seventies, is terrified of being accused of racist behavior, and so we have an over-compensation in the other direction.
I have repeatedly asked at police meetings in the years gone by why it is that cops routinely drive by with their blinders on full, --and the answer has always been, regardless who was the precint captain or the police director (and since I have lived here we have had about fifty of each of those) that: We do not go out looking for trouble; We will answer a call for help, but we will not
do crime prevention. We cannot afford the lawsuits that ensue from doing the latter.
And so this policy/non-policy has been in effect for many years now and by now it is pretty well ingrained in the local ethos. So: If you think that the perps and the kids who hang out doing their brand of evil don't know that the cops are going around essentially hobbled and blindfolded, you have another think coming, as my Uncle Clayton (a perfect Yankee pragmatist, if there ever was one) used to say.

Quote:

well said. my mind is blown as well.

even if he WAS grandstanding, at whose expense was it? since his call for the chief to step down we've seen some notable changes that Steve mentioned, as well as a lot of media coverage on local gov't and crime in JC. this is surely lighting a fire under some people's arses and i see that as a good thing for everyone.

its clear that some people are just predispositioned to oppose most anything and everything he does, even if its for the good of everyone.

Quote:

my mind is blown.

if a politician screws up, it's business as usual.

if s/he does something good/productive, it's grandstanding/building a base for future office.

can any politician EVER do anything right?

i don't understand how you can see this as "nothing more than using a bad sitaution to gain personal acclaim". isn't this exactly what our public servants are supposed to do?...hold people accountable and make efforts for change?

if steve has "greater ambitions", more power to him and i'll be first in line to volunteer for his campaign. i've seen him in action, and we need people like him in higher levels of office.

When the chief and his buddy use the guys wife to start
security company, that is what seriously underminds the public's confidence in the JCPD. When the crime rates increase and response to the average citizens problems decrease, that is what seriously underminds public confidence in the JCPD.

When a councilman elected by the people calls attention to the problems and demands accountability it is not called grandstanding it is called doing his job. Get it straight!

I'm sorry - if this ain't grandstanding; I don't know what is.
It's more than obvious the councilman has greater ambitions. I see this as nothing more than using a bad situation to gain personal acclaim.

Fulop has numbers- an 11% increase in crime.

Troy's response? Name calling.

wonderful that this man is in charge of our security.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. What JC needs are beat cops and a well developed community policing system. Unfortunately this takes work, that apparently is better spent helping your wife with their private security firm. How much easier to throw money at the problem, particularly when it is not your money.

This discussion highlights the fact that Police Chief Troy had not planned on serving the duration of Healy's administration instead retiring after a year and a half or so.

Under the shortened Cunningham administration, there were two police chiefs and another under Acting Mayor Smith's, so we are looking forward to #5 in a little more than 5 years.

Not too much stability for the Police Department with "musical Police Chiefs".

Why? Besides politics, do these short term appointments help inflate the retirement pensions, for those just shy of retirement?

I would like to see the next Police Chief commit to serving until the end of the administration.

Lastly, throughout all of this "discussion", there has been no mention of the Police Director, currently Sam Jefferson, somehow he has avoided Councilman Fulop and this boards wrath.

Quote:

I have heard from numerous officers that they are understaffed. They use it as an excuse to the long response times and rise in crime. It's funny how instead of coming up with effective solutions, Troy just slanders others. As the chief, he should be the most knowledgeable on what needs to be done to turn things around. Troy can't even stop the drug market on Wayne St but can get to public meetings in a p.r. stunt.

On a side note about the quality of changes the police are putting into effect - Saturday night around midnight, I watched a JCPD car drive right past about half dozen males (some looked underage) with open containers cross the street as the cop drove by. They then proceeded to throw and smash their bottles on the street, sidewalk and someone's property. Underage with open containers in the street gets ignored - good job JCPD!!!

Quote:

I'm kind of liking this one!

I smell... BOOMERANG !

Now, we have to come up with an appropriate "rock star" name:

Stevie "Ray" Fulop
Stevie "Nicks and his Hot Licks" Fulop
Little Stevie Fulop
Stevie "The 8th Wonder of JC" Fulop
Stevie's "House of Fallujah" Fulop

Really, I think the Pole-Lease Chief messed up here. Robert "Helen of" Troy better watch his tongue, or Stevie "Legend of Rock" Fulop will eat his lunch.

-M


P.S. Those degenerates from the Beefheart thread will likely come up with better names, so... brace yourself.

So Troy calls an elected City Councilman "Stevie"... what, is our police chief 14 years old? Could you imagine Councilman Fulop referring to Try as "Robbie"??

That should tell you all you need to know as far as who's fighting the good fight here...

Troy's reaction reminds me of the North Korean Government's (or any other dicatorship's) reaction when the U.S. criticizes it for human rights abuses--disproportionate, attack the messenger, and generally act as if the criticism is outrageous. A tired rhetorical device the use of which is perhaps emblematic of our disfunctional democracy in this city. Jersey City government is an "old boys network" unaccustomed to criticism and accountability. Fulop is changing this little by little. Its courageous.

Ricardo Kaulessar - Jersey City Reporter 02/03/2006
--------------------------------------------------------

Stevie...has exhibited serious incompetence'

Police chief and councilman trade barbs over crime rise

FACING THE PEOPLE ? Troy (left) speaks during a community meeting last week at the Mary McLeod Bethune Life Center. Standing to his right is resident and community activist Virginia Miller.
After Councilman Steven Fulop called for Police Chief Robert Troy to resign two weeks ago in the wake of Jersey City's rising murder rate, Troy responded to the public with a three-page letter last week, and blasted Fulop in an interview.

"As a public servant, Stevie Fulop has exhibited serious incompetence," Troy said last week. "I say that because he offers nothing as far as solutions go. He has never once in his short tenure as a junior councilman called this office."

In his letter to the public, Troy complained that Fulop's comments "not only undermine the public's confidence in the Police Department, but also negatively affect the morale of the men and women who comprise the Jersey City Police Department."

Fulop had complained about Jersey City's 39 homicides last year, a 20-year record, and a rise in neighborhood violence.

Troy said that Fulop should have called his office if he was concerned, like Ward C Councilman Steve Lipski did recently.

Troy added, "Stevie grandstands, he embarrasses himself in front of the rest of the council."

Troy pointed out a number of accomplishments under his leadership, such the city's gun buy-back program that brought in 900 guns from the public, the success of the Street Crimes Unit, and various crime sweep operations cracking down on sexual predators, deadbeat landlords and training seniors to protect themselves.

Troy defends record

Advertisement

Troy is expected to retire sometime this year, but said he will not step down right now. He has been on the force for 25 years as of March 1. He has done 14 years of patrol and has been the commander of the department's Bureau of Criminal Investigations before his appointment as police chief in November 2004.

In his year and a half as chief, Troy targeted the growing menace of gangs and drugs within the city, with the JCPD Street Crimes Unit. The unit made over 3,200 drug-related arrests and approximately 290 gang-related arrests in the past 15 months.

Troy did agree with Fulop that the police chief had to be made accountable for the city's crime problem and there should be accountability on all levels. But Troy shot back at Fulop's lack of accountability in the matter.

"If Stevie applied that same accountability procedure to himself, he would remove himself from the council and do the taxpayers a favor," said Troy.

Fulop responds

Fulop responded to Troy's comments last week saying that he has called Troy's office a number of times but has not gotten a response back. He referred to his call for Troy's resignation as a "last resort" in dealing with a dire situation.

He also said that the murder rate wasn't the only reason for his comments.

"I believe he is making excuses," Fulop said. "There is an increase in crime everywhere, not just homicides, but also burglaries, rapes, robberies. When he was sworn as chief, he said, 'You can hold me accountable.' "

Fulop also claimed that his call for Troy's job has had an effect, as a number of plainclothes officers have been returned to walking posts in dangerous parts of the city.

Fulop also wrote a letter to the newspaper about the issue.

"To me," Fulop wrote, "our poor performance not only jeopardizes the safety of our residents, it jeopardizes pro-perty value, and it jeopardizes our standing in the region. Now, if we agree that there is an increase in crime, which I think is fairly difficult to dispute, then the question that needs to be addressed is why, and who is accountable?"

He opined: "Sometimes you have to rattle the cage to get results."

Troy at community meeting

Blunt and plainspoken, Chief Troy has preferred in most cases to shun the limelight, except when to announce a tragic murder or a job well done by his fellow police officers. But with Fulop's call for him to resign, the Christmas Day deaths of JCPD officers Shawn Carson and Robert Nguyen in an accident in which they drove off a draw bridge, Troy has had to contend with being in the public eye more.

Troy, along with Mayor Jerramiah Healy and a number of police personnel, appeared Thursday at a community meeting organized by Ward F City Councilwoman Viola Richardson where he answered questions and spoke on the state of crime in the city.

SIDEBAR

DOT criticizes accident investigation; Troy responds

Jersey City Police Chief Robert Troy responded last week to a recent report by the NJ Department of Transportation regarding their investigation of the accident Christmas Day on the Lincoln Highway Bridge that claimed the lives of Police Officers Shawn Carson, 40, and Robert Nguyen, 30.

Carson and Nguyen were traveling back to Jersey City the night of Dec. 25 after delivering flares on the Lincoln Highway Bridge, which connects Jersey City and Kearny. They were not aware that the bridge was up and the warning lights were out, and their Emergency Services Unit vehicle plunged into the Hackensack River.

There have been various theories as to why the accident occurred. It has been said that the police officers on the bridge were distracted by a false report of a civilian robbery, which diverted their attention from halting their vehicle in time. Another theory states that the officers were not informed that the bridge was up.

A 19-page report on the accident was released by the Department of Transportation, along with an eight-page report on the improvements needed for the bridge, on Jan. 27. It raised questions such as how Jersey City police officers who were already on the bridge, Michael Scarpa and Jane Louf, could not have been aware that the bridge was up, and why the two bridge operators on duty that night, Kenneth Cordano and Ali Alexandarane, were tested for drugs and alcohol when Scarpa and Louf were not.

The report also found that Cordano and Alexandarane were not in any way negligent on duty nor responsible for the accident that claimed the lives of two officers.

But the report criticized the JCPD for conducting an investigation that pressed the bridge operators to give answers "they wanted to hear," rather than recounting what actually happened that night, and rushing them to sign off on their statements without allowing them to read them beforehand.

Last week, Troy said the reason officers Scarpa and Louf were not tested for drugs and alcohol was because he and police officials determined that night that they did not need to be tested because they were not the "ones who raised the bridge."

Troy also said that in their assessment of the accident, the DOT was looking to "divert responsibility" and all the facts will come out early this week when the JCPD announces the results of their long-awaited investigation.

"We're going to lay out the truth, no matter where that road takes us," said Troy. "If the road takes us where we need to be critical of ours, then so be it."

Troy took issue with a suggestion in the DOT report that the JCPD investigators, led by Lt. Mike Kelly of the Major Cases Unit, were too harsh on the operators. He commented sarcastically that it "just breaks my heart."

"The investigators are some of the best in [Hudson] county and they just happen to be Jersey City police officers," said Troy. "We're more concerned about getting to the truth than hurting their feelings." - RK

Ricardo Kaulessar can be reached at rkaulessar@hudsonreporter.com

You couldnt be more wrong, but thanks for the input. If underaged yuppy kids are caught drinking in hoboken they would also be arrested. the drinking age is 21. These underage kids should be doing something called studying or other constructive behavior( working part time etc). A majority of these kids will not get a further education after college and worse cannnot speak proper english and waste our tax $ on schooling them. the bonus for the tax payer is a large percentage of these kids parents get state aid which is also paid for by us.

ther is a direct link between quality of life crimes and more violent crimes. If you are new to the country please look up this name. Rudy Guiliani. He proved every one of your points wrong.

In America, many of us own houses and take great pride in our property. All of these things you mention deteriorate a neighborhood and the properties we own.

By the way, these kids are drinking on their landlords steps, not their own steps.

You left Communist Russia because it was a police state but when you left you forgot to leave behind your extreme socialist views. Before you came to America you should have done your research better. There are several countries that seem to be a better fit for you. Canada and France come to mind. You should check them out when you get the chance. America is the land of opportunity, not the land of excuses and handouts. with your attitude and beliefs you will never grasp the capitalist concept.

Also what's your point with the muslim kids, is that somehow our fault? Please tell me your blaming the muslim parents.Quote:

I received a copy of the letter from the City Clerk earlier this week. Since it is hard copy, I have scanned it, but images cannot be uploaded to jclist. If anyone has webspace that they could post it to and link to, I could email it.

The letter only contains marginally more content then the press release.

The city consensus is that Councilman Fulop was looking to take credit for forcing Police Chief Troy out when he is due to retire during departmental buyouts since the chief has 25 years on the force. I now wonder if Fulop picked a fight with the wrong guy and Troy stay will longer.

glx, i didn't mean to sound upset/demanding. my original message had fallen off the main page and i just wanted to bump it to have it addressed. i've asked this question before to others. and as of yet i've never really received a legit answer.

sorry if it read that way steve.

Quote:

Calm down. You sent your first message at almost 5pm, and your next one at 5am the next morning. People are busy and not everyone sits on jclist 24/7, especially someone as busy as the Councilman I'm sure. I think you could've waited a little more than 12 hours before demanding an answer...

I think for the chief to make EXUSES for our crime shows his lack of leadership. Troy needs to step DOWN, I can't believe they would let a Chief in charge of safety of one of the largest cities in NJ, that does nothing but makes EXUSES in public (weak)! Come on now, did this guy even graduate from the highschool or the even the police academy??

No Steve,

Thank you for trying to do the job you were elected to do. It's refreshing to know your not just collecting a paycheck. Keep up the good work... We are all behind you!

Ccitizen-
I PMed you on the side with contact detail.

As a note, sometimes I recognize my choice of wording could be better in these posts, but I always only provide information once the police tell that it is clear and it is safe to explain. So in the instances that you ask for specific block information during a month, as is the case here, I will need to circle back with them and get their ok as always.

In the case that you have a future concern, Police Captain McDonough and I are at most community meetings

Have a great weekend
Steven Fulop

i want an answer on this.

Steve,

I appreciate the energy you are focusing on this and other issues. Can you help us understand the department's position on why an open air drug market, like the one everyone is aware of on Wayne Street, is allowed to exist year after year?

Alan-

I value your opinion so let?s drill down further. This discussion is not really only about murders. In order to not misconstrue my rationale for this request it was not based solely on the murder increase but it was based on an increase in most of types of violent crime including rape, burglary, robbery, auto theft etc. The FBI crime statistics don?t lie. They show Jersey City with an increase in crime since Chief Troy has taken charge of 11%. When comparing these numbers to other municipalities, Newark had a much smaller increase, while NYC actually showed a decrease of .5% and even Camden showed a decrease in violent crimes. Furthermore, Jersey City has dropped in the widely regarded Morgan Quinto rankings of safest cities. To me our poor performance not only jeopardizes the safety of our residents, it jeopardizes property value, and it jeopardizes our standing in the region. Now, if we agree that there is an increase in crime which I think is fairly difficult to dispute the question that needs to be addressed is WHY?

Personally, I have heard many times the Chief?s rationale for the increase in crime however personally, I can?t subscribe to the theory that the increase is solely based on man power because our police force numbers are relatively the same from the previous two administrations to Chief Troy- if anything he has more but there is still less visibility. Furthermore, I can?t subscribe to the theory that crime is increasing everywhere in NJ because if you look at statistics of our neighboring cities as cited earlier several have shown a decrease.

To me, the issue is based in deployment changes as he has taken many police out of uniform into plain clothes, and the massive promotions the Chief has pushed through the system last year despite tax increases facing the city. As the Jersey Journal has cited we have a very high number of supervisors to officers now. This is a management issue. It is never easy to put pressure on someone?s job but the first priority is too correct a wrong situation.

In the last week since my request, Chief Troy has held more commander meetings. Furthermore, he has returned several walking posts back on the street, he has moved additional police details to night shifts that previously were not, he has shown up at several community meetings, and the police visibility has increased overall in many parts of the city. Although it has only been one week since pressure mounted, I think this is a step in the right direction. We need to address crime aggressively in this city without excuses, and I wholeheartedly believe that mediocre performance in any government department is unacceptable when considering what our taxpayers are asked to pay.

Steven Fulop

"he seemed to think it was such an accomplishment to be down 75% compared to last January when a whole family was slaughtered"


I was at that meeting - my first. Granted the acoustics were awful, but I think I heard Troy say that you couldn't compare last January to this because of the slaughter of one family - that calling the numbers going down an improvement was misleading.

I think Fulop sounded silly by saying he was a "numbers man" after Troy made a good case for numbers needing interpretation.

Thanks for the update, brewster. Those were good questions & insight. Chief Troy (aka The Chief) was in the NWA meeting last week or so, and now HPNA's. I wonder when he's coming to a VVPNA meeting. I will do my best to attend.

Yeah, I really wasn't too impressed last night. Especially since he seemed to think it was such an accomplishment to be down 75% compared to last January when a whole family was slaughtered, and there was only 1 murder this January (butweren't there more than that?).

2: why do you allow one fifth of the force to be on vacation during the summer, our highest crime period?>>

I didn't know that.

It makes no sense.

So Chief Troy came to HPNA for a bit of PR and damage control.

I've been agnostic on this issue, feeling I didn't really know enough.

I asked him 2 questions.

1: why do we need more cops per capita than NYC?
2: why do you allow one fifth of the force to be on vacation during the summer, our highest crime period?

He weaseled on both of them with the typical politico "I'm glad you asked that..." and then not answering the question.

It was not a confidence inspiring performance. Perhaps Steve is right. People often rise to the level of their incompetence in bureaucracies, it doesn't mean they aren't sincerely trying their best or weren't good at their previous positions.

At the very least he's actually talking to the community. But it was more like a campaign stop than a dialog.

Quote:

These are all great ideas. The mayor needs to realize he cant please everyone.

I always bring up Guilani in these debates. He may have offended many( drug dealers, prostitutes, gang members and the fools who feel their rights are more important than ours) but he got results. Healy is to concerned about special interest groups etc.

all these thing you mention are necessary but until the mayor takes a page or two out of Guilanis playbook, we have to get used to the increase in crime or the other option is to move to the burbs.