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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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The NJ senior freeze program is run by the state. And states like Minnesota run their tax deferral (reverse mortgage-like) program. Consistent and independent governance, consistency of policies, economies of scale...some good reasons to manage at the state level. http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/ https://jux.law/senior-citizen-propert ... l-minnesota-property-tax/
Posted on: 2018/3/11 18:16
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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The state is not involved in the property taxation process at all, it's the cities and counties, why should they get involved in this solution?
Posted on: 2018/3/11 17:49
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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$1666/month would not double my rent, it's true. but can you name anyone in your social circle who could handle that kind of increase, even if it's only 50%?
Posted on: 2018/3/11 17:33
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Needs to be state driven, IMO. Property tax deferral for retirees with the accumulated balance plus interest due upon sale.
Posted on: 2018/3/11 3:29
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Apparently the other biggest chunk is the Mortgage Insurance Premium, which can be 2% of value, but the important thing not broadcast is that if you take a "line of credit" style reverse, the MIP at origination is a fraction of that, it's dependent on your loan balance. My impression is a lot of the abusive loans came from brokers who were paid more for lump sum rather than line of credit style loans. Lump sum was certainly inappropriate for the lady in the article. As I've said before, it would be so much better if the city set this up themselves to securitize "reverse mortgage" style tax liens for homeowners who met certain qualifications of age or income. It would be a win all around with less fear for homeowners and less uncertainty for the city coffers.
Posted on: 2018/3/11 2:29
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Total fees will be closer to $15,000 at the end of the day. Loan origination is just one of several. But I agree with you that something in that story just doesn't add up... From the way it's told, it sounds like everyone conspired to screw over this poor old lady, even the courts. I'm willing to bet there is some pertinent information left out since it's so one-sided and gets political.
Posted on: 2018/3/11 1:03
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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The numbers and timeline in that article make no sense and do not add up. She got $104k on a $300k house in 2004 and it was gone by 2007? By a few years later the loan balance was $300k? WTF? As far as I can tell she must have squandered most of the loan in some way, and was robbed by the shady bank of the remaining $180k of equity in her home, there's no explanation other than a mixup of mailing addresses. Even the article states "Reverse mortgage foreclosures are rare, and evictions rarer, experts say." These are the scare stories I am very dubious about. There was no reason to lump sum this rather than take the taxes out every year like it was a line of credit. When I looked at the fees, they seemed to be about $4k to originate the loan, I don't see that as ridiculously high for the service rendered. A little reading has revealed that some of these are set up to fail, the banks take no measures to insure taxes are paid the way they do with a standard mortgage and escrow. This is a huge hole in the system.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 22:02
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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I would recommend selling and downsizing to a rental. Avoid the high fees that comes with reverse mortgages.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 21:06
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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This is one example of why it might not be the best idea.
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/20 ... r_eviction_from_home.html Quote:
Posted on: 2018/3/10 21:01
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Please explain why you would never recommend a reverse mortgage to pay the taxes. I cannot find any legit criticism of using a 'reverse' in this way, only of pulling out large lump sums for stupid reasons. Someone 70 years old with $2m in equity and low income can pay their taxes easily for the rest of their lives, and maybe even have some extra pocket money, rather moving or sitting in their gold plated home feeling poor. Do the numbers, it would take more than 25 years of zero appreciation to eat half their equity by paying their tax, and no one thinks there will be zero appreciation. Complaining about taxes because they wanted to leave the now valuable house to their heirs is not a reason to feel sorry for anyone.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 20:25
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Looking at http://www.asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359
It's possible to figure out the land value for properties with abatements: 2018 Assmt Total - 2018 Assmt Exempt = value of land ranging from 50,000 to 70,000 for townhomes on Grant Ave. Thoughts?
Posted on: 2018/3/10 6:06
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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A couple of thoughts: - the hypothetical owner of your post would have many more options than just ?will have to sell?. Among them: reverse mortgage, HE loan, HE LOC, etc. - no renter would see his rent double because his landlord's taxes have doubled. That?s sheer misunderstanding of the numbers involved. Take the extreme example of a homeowner going from 20K to 40K. If that landlord had a single tenant, and he wanted to pass on the entirety of the tax increase onto the tenant, that means charging an additional $1,666/month. That?s only a doubling if the tenant is only paying 1,666/mo today, which seems unlikely for that kind of property. That would be an easy one to fight in housing court.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 5:31
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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No landlord is going to double the rent. As you mentioned, most people will move. The way I see it, downtown landlords will stop having their operating expenses subsidized by the poor people in Greenville. It was like reverse Robinhood. Landlords may actually be okay with the new federal tax laws. The $10,000 cap on state and local taxes is not applicable to revenue from rental properties; All of the taxes paid are deductible for federal income taxes purposes and the tax rate has also been decreased, especially for passive income. So again, your SOB stories about DTJC homeowners and landlords that have to sell because they've made millions on their property's appreciation is illogical. Adding insult to injury, they have been subsidized by the poorest areas of Jersey City for over a quarter century.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 0:37
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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This makes no sense. They could sell the property and continue to live in the area by renting. They would have a very comfortable retirement. Ins't there also other programs like reverse mortgages which would allow someone to cash out their equity and live in the home for the rest of their lives. Not that I would ever recommend a reverse mortgage, but just pointing out it's an option if someone wanted to stay.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 0:29
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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I've got no dog in this fight, as I'm a renter. but I do feel for my long-time neighbors who planned on retiring here, and will now probably have to sell. good for them for getting squillions on a home they bought for very little, decades ago. but it's a big bummer to have to uproot yourself in your golden years, just because you are now sitting on a hot property. likewise, if my landlord has to double my rent, he'll lose a known tenant who's been trouble-free for years. instead he'll have to deal with someone new, who might make extra demands in line with market-rate rent, yet he'll have no extra $$ in the bank in exchange for that headache. yes, of course he can sell. but he too was planning on retiring here, so please refer to paragraph one of my post.
Posted on: 2018/3/10 0:25
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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True statement.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 23:56
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Yvonne, do you have anything to say about this? I find it interesting because only improvements can receive an tax abatement. Land is taxed normally. Are you seriously suggesting that because of the reval, your taxes are going up and you would pay 30% less if you were taxed normally? Can anyone else help me understand this situation?
Posted on: 2018/3/9 23:55
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Correct. They make it pretty clear that your best evidence is comps. There's also this whole land/improvement split that I don't get. If you're curious, the county guide to appeals is here: https://secure.njappealonline.com/prod ... _InstructionsHandbook.pdf
Posted on: 2018/3/9 3:22
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Can anyone find the tax dollars collected by each jersey city zip code?
Posted on: 2018/3/9 3:14
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Just can't stay away
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Dolomiti, you and Brewster and I seem to agree on these things, so I hope it doesn?t sound like I?m arguing with either one of you. You guys have really put in some time trying to call out these folks claiming unfairness. It?s unreal.
I?m really disheartened by the greed and audacity of longtime downtowners who claim in one breath to have spent decades creating and building this city and in another breath claiming that they had no idea about the taxes or that it comes as a complete shock. It?s really something else.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Just can't stay away
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Does anyone know how to remove tax abatement from a property? Just got the new assesment and heading to City Hall tomorrow.
Bought a condo on Westside last year near Mallory and knew taxes were too high because it was originally sold at peak of 2005 with abatement. Now I get a tax bill and city is increasing the % on the improvements. If I were to get rid of the abatement it will save me more than 30% for 2018! Kicker is with abatement dropped some of that money will go to school system that badly needs it. We knew that people in Greenville, B/L & Westside were subsidizing rest of downtown Hamilton Park but this is just crazy.If you have an abated property make sure to compare what it would be without it.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:45
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Just can't stay away
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Ha! Yes! But I was referring to the downtown crowd who think residents of Greenville and BeLa who were overpaying should have appealed. My point was that those who were overpaying would not have been able to successfully appeal based on downtown underpaying. Right?
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Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:30
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Just can't stay away
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Ha! Yes! But I was referring to the downtown crowd who think residents of Greenville and BeLa who were overpaying should have appealed. My point was that those who were overpaying would not have been able to successfully appeal based on downtown underpaying. Right?
Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:27
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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This is exactly what I thought in the first few years after I bought my property. My assessed value was 330k and I bought for 550k in 2005. Also, the property had a so-called 5-year abatement - I couldn't appeal before 2009.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:27
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Dolomiti wrote: Quote: That?s why there?s an appeal system and that?s how it works. An individual brings an appeal ? get it?? Can?t disagree that Jersey City was wilfully negligent in neglecting to conduct revals for the past 30 or so years. Nevertheless an individual could have fixed their own problem all during that time with an appeal. It?s no secret and many people did appeal successfully. Stop crying now if you didn?t. I feel sorry for you, but you alone are responsible if you didn?t appeal. Steve Fulop was willfully and wantonly negligent when he stopped the reval after becoming mayor. Oh, by the way, I think you?ll find that the road rules hold you responsible for safely proceeding at any time you?re driving on public roads ? whether or not a traffic control signal is installed.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 2:19
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Bamb00zle wrote: Quote: Dolomiti wrote: It is not the responsibility of tens of thousands of JC residents to fix a systemic refusal by the city to uphold its legal responsibilities. That?s why there?s an appeal system and that?s how it works. An individual brings an appeal ? get it?? Can?t disagree that Jersey City was wilfully negligent in neglecting to conduct revals for the past 30 or so years. Nevertheless an individual could have fixed their own problem all during that time with an appeal. It?s no secret and many people did appeal successfully. Stop crying now if you didn?t. I feel sorry for you, but you alone are responsible if you didn?t appeal. Steve Fulop was willfully and wantonly negligent when he stopped the reval after becoming mayor. Oh, by the way, I think you?ll find that the road rules hold you responsible for safely proceeding at any time you?re driving on public roads ? whether or not a traffic control signal is installed.
Posted on: 2018/3/9 1:50
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Indeed!!!
Posted on: 2018/3/9 1:06
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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I guess this needs to be said again: had every over assessed property owner successfully appealed their taxes it still would not have made the taxes fair. The older downtown properties would STILL have been paying less than half the effective rate of everyone else, and the overall tax rate would have needed to go up to make up that income shortfall created by the appeals.
So while yes, people should have been more informed and proactive, the system was still not going to give them fairness. And, as was pointed, out the system is deliberately opaque as to how your taxes are actually calculated. I think most people saw that low assessment number and thought they better keep their mouths shut.
Posted on: 2018/3/8 22:48
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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Home away from home
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Oh please, spare us the ridiculous nonsense. Obviously, not appealing property taxes is absolutely 100% nothing like removing every single traffic light. That is an absurd proposition. Not appealing property taxes that are too high is simple inaction on the part of an individual causing self-induced harm. Stop whining if you did nothing to stop that. Quote:
No dispute about that. But it is up to an individual to appeal their taxes if they are unjust or unfair because they are too high. That?s why there?s an appeal system and that?s how it works. An individual brings an appeal ? get it?? Quote:
Yes, appealing taxes isn?t the most difficult thing. All the more reason that if someone didn?t appeal, it?s their problem now. Quote:
Can?t disagree that Jersey City was wilfully negligent in neglecting to conduct revals for the past 30 or so years. Nevertheless an individual could have fixed their own problem all during that time with an appeal. It?s no secret and many people did appeal successfully. Stop crying now if you didn?t. I feel sorry for you, but you alone are responsible if you didn?t appeal. Quote:
Couldn?t agree more. Steve Fulop was willfully and wantonly negligent when he stopped the reval after becoming mayor. His action revealed his cynicism about an injustice that impacted thousands of residents across many neighborhoods in Jersey City. And all during the past 30 years successive City Administrations and Officials who knew a reval was way overdue and did nothing are equally culpable. Nonetheless, individuals who didn?t appeal their unfair taxes for decades are responsible for their own inaction. Oh, by the way, I think you?ll find that the road rules hold you responsible for safely proceeding at any time you?re driving on public roads ? whether or not a traffic control signal is installed. The presence, or absence, of a traffic light is secondary to your responsibility to be in control of your vehicle and drive safely. You don?t get to drive unsafely because a traffic signal is out of repair, or broken or ?...is removed...? You are still responsible.
Posted on: 2018/3/8 21:10
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