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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
 
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Yes, at the time of the last reval. Every year since then they make an evaluation of how much they think the aggregate value of ALL the city property has gone up since the reval, and make that the "ratio" multiplier. Since that is an average, obviously some properties are higher, and some lower, hence the need for a periodic reval to bring assessments back to actual value again. 10 year intervals is considered reasonable given the cost, 28 years is not, and has led us to this situation of tax unfairness. SOS's assertion that the real rate will be so much higher than now is really stating that his source thinks the ratio now is significantly overestimated. If that is so, the value of the base is lower than they think, and must be taxed at a higher rate to bring in the same amount. But it seems to me it makes no difference then, in either case the whole city is being taxed to bring in the same dollars from properties newly assessed. An artificially low rate on an artificially high value is a meaningless artifact post reval.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 18:09
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Newbie
 
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This brings up an interesting point that I've never really understood. Are the assessments meant to reflect the actual market value of the home? usually when you're house shopping the value on which the taxes are figured is well below what you're paying, but I always figured that was because even cities that have been more diligent than JC don't do revals every year so they can pretty quickly be outdated.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 17:57
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Spot on.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 17:56
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I had a candid discussion with a long time city employee who's opinion I trust. This person isn't a politician and has served under many administrations. He believes that we'll have taxes of $25 per thousand (or what tax newbs call 2.5%) if we are very fortunate. It could easily be in the high 20's +. So if you want to shoot the messenger, go for it! I can guarantee that he knows more about the reval and jc taxes than anyone posting in this thread. Certainly more than me.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 17:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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The number you are quoting is the assessment not the "value". A $75k market value would still be low, but $300k seems improbably high. In my perusal of taxes I didn't see anything that far out of wack, I would say that house is an outlier. But your description of the reval looked accurate.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 17:31
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Newbie
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Thanks for the response..
Well I'm an admitted novice but as an example I found one single family home on Pine Street that needs work but is perfectly habitable. According to my research the city has it valued at $24,000! I think we can both agree that a 3 bedroom home in working condition in what we both agree is a nice little hood is worth way more than that...It was not actually on the market mind you but if it were I would imagine it would go for $300-$350K maybe more. Currently it's being taxed at 7% of it's assessed value so if you bought it and did some improvements and in the reval they assessed it at 400K that's $28,000. What I didn't factor in is that I'm an idiot who knows nothing about taxes, property or otherwise. Having read through some of the other posts it seems like by law the whole thing has to be revenue neutral which means the city has to take in the same amount of money before and after, it's not about making more money its about making the distribution of taxes fairer. So the rate would be adjusted to extract that amount of money from the tax base with all the properties revalued. So as an example if you were living in the town of Three House, NJ, a town so named because it has only three houses and the state ordered you to do a reval it would go like this. Let's say your total revenue the year before the reval is $10,500 and these are the currently assessed values of the cities three homes. Property #1 ? $100,000 actual value ($50,000 assessed value) Taxes = $3,500 Property #2 - $75,000 actual ($50,000 assessed) Taxes= $3,500 Property #3 - $45,000 actual ($50,000 assessed) Taxes = $3,500 So the property tax rate is 7% which brings $10,500 into the cities coffers. Once they do the reval the target for revenue would remain $10,500 and the tax rate would be change to get to that number... Property #1 - $100,000 ($100,000 assessed) Taxes = $4,700 Property #2 - $75,000 (75,000 assessed) Taxes = $3,525 Property #3 - $45,000 (45,000 assessed) Taxes = $2,115 So under the old assessments all three homes are paying the same tax even though they are not worth the same amount. Under the new assessment the rate is reduced to 4.7% in order to get to $10,500 so Property #1 pays quite a bit more, Property #2 pays a little more and property #3 pays less. Can anyone who knows more than I do here tell me if I have that even a little bit right?
Posted on: 2016/5/10 16:52
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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A couple of thoughts: how did you determine they are undervalued? Assess value is not the same as actual valuation. Are you saying that after the equalization rate is factored in, you think the valuations are off by a factor of 12?? That sounds like a big claim. The area you are considering is nice (despite what some here may think) and I lived there for over eight years. It is definitely rough around the edges, and if one goes by first impressions it is easy to miss the good and positive aspects. So, good luck with the house hunting. BTW, assuming the tax rate doesn't change, I don't think there is a single property in BeLa that will get a tax levy of $28,000. That would imply a market valuation of 1.4 million dollars. I haven't that type of property in the area.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 16:24
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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All of stateaidguy's posts have been extremely informative and factual. I'm curious, who the outsider with an agenda built into his name - SOS? lol
Posted on: 2016/5/10 16:15
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Newbie
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I just sold my place in Paulus Hook, but can't afford to stay there so we're looking in what I call Communipaw-Lafayette down by the BHLR. Some of the single-families I've seen there are literally paying $1500/yr in taxes, and by my calculations are undervalued by a factor of at least 12.
I'm not really interested in the argument over whether the reval should happen, it seems to me it has to at some point and we might as well get it over with. What I want to know is what happens Day 1 post-reval? My taxes go from $1,500 to $28,000 overnight? Is there a mechanism that can be put in place to at least spread the increase out over a certain number of years? Can they lower the actually tax rate to make it more affordable? Thanks.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 15:56
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Thanks again for an informative post SAG. If only everyone, never mind an outsider with an agenda built into his name, were so civil and fact based.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 15:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Just can't stay away
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For Jersey City and ~150 other districts, state aid is determined by what Jersey City got in 2007-2008. There is no rational calculation based on Jersey City's contemporary tax base or student enrollment. I know that this does not make sense, but this is how NJ's school funding law, SFRA, works. SFRA has a provision for something called "Adjustment Aid" (aka "Hold Harmless Aid") that disallows any district from getting less than 102% of what it got when SFRA became law in January 2008. Even if state aid were determined by current tax base, a reval would still have no effect on Jersey City's state aid since state aid is calculated based on Equalized Valuation, not official assessment. Equalized Valuation is already recalculated every year by the county tax assessor. http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/20 ... ty-reassessment-wont.html
Posted on: 2016/5/10 10:38
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Thank-you for the responses to my questions. It is my understanding however that our property values will have a direct impact on what we pay to the state and what we get for school funding. It still seems that having completed this when values were 20-30% less would have benefited Jersey city homeowners.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 3:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Revaluations ordered in East Newark, Harrison; which town is next?
By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal on May 09, 2016 at 12:04 PM, updated May 09, 2016 at 5:31 PM East Newark and Harrison are the latest Hudson County municipalities ordered to conduct property revaluations. The orders, issued by the county taxation board on May 2, came less than a week after New Jersey tax officials said they would investigate whether the two towns should conduct revals. East Newark's reval must be done by November 2017, Harrison's by November 2018. http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ewark_harrison_which.html
Posted on: 2016/5/10 1:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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It would take something politically and logistically seismic for the reval to take effect Jan 2017. It won't happen.
Posted on: 2016/5/10 0:56
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Not too shy to talk
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Is it a foregone conclusion that the reval will take place at the deadline which means not until next year or is possible that it takes place sooner?
Posted on: 2016/5/10 0:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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A 'competent' mayor doesn't end up having the city pay millions of dollars because he delayed the process . . . and is paying interest every day on top.
Posted on: 2016/5/5 16:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Just can't stay away
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I agree with this. If you look at what properties in the Heights, BL and JSQ are selling for vs the assessed values and taxes the 2.1% post reval rate everyone is quoting makes no sense. I think it will be well below that figure.
Posted on: 2016/5/5 16:49
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Some people may be underestimating the rise in property values in areas beyond downtown. The heights and Journal Square for example are all doing incredibly well. Fulop uses this as one of the significant reasons why the reval should be delayed. In the last 3 years or so the disparity in housing prices in the city has been decreasing at a higher rate than prior years. Fulop haters may not agree, but having a competent mayor has something to do with it.
Posted on: 2016/5/5 16:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Yes, but also keep in mind that most new construction is assessed at (or close to) their real market value. So, new construction will not see much of an increase in their taxes, if any at all. For new construction that is currently paying abated taxes, they will definitely not see an increase either.
Posted on: 2016/5/4 20:52
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Its one of the perks of new construction that should help residents deal with the added congestion. I guess the key is that that amount of revenue required by the city doesn't vastly rise
Posted on: 2016/5/4 17:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Yes, and this would happen regardless of reval.
Posted on: 2016/5/4 17:10
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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If the rateable base is higher (all the new construction), shouldn't this spread the overall burden assuming a similar rate of required revenue for the city ?
Posted on: 2016/5/4 17:04
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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This is not accurate. By law, the reval must be revenue neutral. But, the reval being pushed back by 3+ years has some major implications: - the very people being protected by cancelling the reval (DTJC homeowners) have experienced the most appreciation in the values of their homes, which means they will now shoulder a larger hit when the new tax levies are determined. - whereas he could have deflected or pinned any negative repercussions from the reval on Healy by allowing the previous one to be completed, he instead thoroughly injected himself into process and now owns this political hot potato. - because of the run up in DTJC values, the disparity in relative assessment values has worsened, making Fulop's position one that is both politically and morally untenable. - all the negative press and recent developments will undoubtedly have repercussions for Fulop's much rumored run for the governorship.
Posted on: 2016/5/4 15:25
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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There were a few explanations. When he called it off, he told me that it was because the bid process was corrupt. He called the reval a "backdoor tax" by the Healy admin. He also argued at the time that since the ratio of assessed-to-true value in the city hadn't led to a lack of development, a reval wasn't necessary. In a letter he sent to the B.A. after his election as mayor, he mentioned the bid process but also said Hurricane Sandy may have had an impact on property values. He said he was canceling the reval until his admin could investigate all of this. The judge overseeing the reval trial that ended last month said there was no evidence any investigation had taken place. Here's that letter: https://www.documentcloud.org/document ... letter-halting-reval.html Fulop has also said he thinks the reval would devastate property values citywide.
Posted on: 2016/5/4 15:01
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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IIRC, he also claims people will lose their homes due to a big jump in taxes. What he doesn't say (and fights against when called out on) is that those people he's protecting are a relatively small group of people, motsly in dtjc, who now have very high home values (and who would earn a lot of $$ if they in fact did have to sell). Not in all cases, but many of these people are also affluent and can likely afford the tax increase as well. Someone please correct me if I'm mis-stating this...I'm still learning.
Posted on: 2016/5/4 15:00
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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I may have missed it but has Fulop explained his decision to end the Reval other then it was unfair? Did he not realize it would eventually be required by law? Was there a plan for that? Did he realize by waiting until values were at an all time high we will now have to kick more to the state?
Posted on: 2016/5/4 14:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Not sure if he did or didn't but he certainly blew it with his constituents.
Posted on: 2016/5/3 23:11
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Get on your bikes and ride !
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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At what point did Fulop blow up?
Posted on: 2016/5/3 22:49
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2016/5/3 18:54
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Home away from home
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Jan 1st after completion of the reval. http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/lpt/revaluation.pdf Think you can assume the reval itself will take 6 months. In all likelihood - Jan 1st 2018.
Posted on: 2016/5/2 18:49
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