brewster wrote:
It's funny the breast beating over "stressing" 1,200 acre LSP with a brewpub, when there's none for 4 acre Hamilton Park over the building of thousands of units between 10th & 18th with no new park for them.

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, it's a commercial print shop now. They don't have many employees. It's directly across the street from the boat launch area of LSP. Their plans include a SILO to store enough grain to make beer and ale. I actually don't oppose it, but it's an example of the crocodile tears that Fulop sheds in opposing small development within LSP, while supporting massive development adjacent to it. It's two faced and hypocritical, and I'm shocked Sam Pesin isn't having kittens and conniptions about this.

Monroe wrote:
As far as the Exxon settlement, they are and will continue to remediate the affected areas, as PPG is doing on Garfield (and did on Pacific which won awards for remediation). Could we maybe have gotten a bit more after years and years of appeals? Maybe. Maybe not. Better a quick nickel than a slow dime I say.

bodhipooh wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

And hell, brewpub-slash-bowling-alley sounds AWESOME, even if it is a little out of the way. Build it IN LSP for all I care, it's not like the vast majority of LSP is even being used by the community around it. I just love these NIMBYs who like "saving" useless things just for the sake of preventing progress.

You think the vast majority of LSP is useless?

Not sure how "underutilized" was read as "useless". It's a huge park with far more area than the usage levels require.

You said useless, not underutilized.

Obviously, he used "useless" in making a generalization about NIMBY types. And, he was not too far off.

I have always marveled at the under utilization of LSP. When I first started running there in the mornings (2009?) I was usually one of three souls. Over time, more people started showing up. On a "busy" midweek morning, I can run into 15 or 20 people doing the same thing. I fee like the park sees mostly passive activity and very little active usage. But, according to FOLSP, the park has over 5.5 million visitors annually, with about 4 million being actual users of the park and the rest being LSC patrons and people coming in for the ferries to Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty. I find those numbers to be very hard to believe. Even when I go on weekends with my dog, I see very few visitors. It is a HUGE park, and it attracts very few people overall.

brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
I actually don't oppose it, but it's an example of the crocodile tears that Fulop sheds in opposing small development within LSP, while supporting massive development adjacent to it.

There's big difference between IN and ADJACENT. That's what makes it a park. Liberty Harbor N is just as close to LSP. And you lose credibility calling this massive. A towering hotel is different, but again it's not IN the park any more than the hundreds of buildings on 5th Ave & CPW are IN Central Park.

Fulop has lots of exposures right now, why pursue this stretch?

Monroe wrote:
I actually don't oppose it, but it's an example of the crocodile tears that Fulop sheds in opposing small development within LSP, while supporting massive development adjacent to it.

Pebble wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
This is on city land located in Liberty State Park...

There is no such thing as city land inside of Liberty State Park. Once again, you provide misinformation.

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Monroe wrote:
Great, a development across the street from LSP that will turn a small, M-F 9-5 building into a 7 day a week entertainment facility bringing party animals to a pub that will at least be open to midnight. Yup, Fulop really cares about LSP!

What M-F 9-5 building is there?

What?s interesting is that I first learned about this about two years ago. It involved shuttle buses to downtown. I figured at the time that it was a bit of a long shot development idea.

Now, I?m not sure what ?party animals? you think go to bowling alleys, but I highly doubt that this is some sort of massive destination for a nightclub crowd.

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Monroe wrote:
Exxon is still responsible for the cleanup, the $250 million is the fine. Since they are remediating the sites anyone thinking that NJ would get billions more in compensation was smoking something funny.

It?s simple fact that Christie chose to spend additional state funds in order to accept $250m after Exxon donated to the Republican Governor?s Association.

As for the state getting billions? I don?t know. But the state likely could have received $500m if Christie didn?t choose to spend additional money getting a worse deal.

Regardless, that has nothing to do with LSP. It only has to do with the fact that it gave our state the nickname of ?armpit?.

bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

Here is the text of the petition:

TO: THE HONORABLE, THE MAYOR AND MUNICIPAL COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF JERSEY CITY:
Your Petitioner, 1 Edward Hart Road, LLC ("Petitioner"), having an office at One Edward Hart Road, Jersey City, New Jersey 07302, respectfully says that:

1. Petitioner is the owner of the property located at One Edward Hart Road, Jersey City, New Jersey and known as Block 24304, Lot 6, on the current tax maps of the City of Jersey City (the "Property"). The property is located within the Liberty Harbor Redevelopment Plan. Petitioner was granted Preliminary and Final Major Site Plan Approval by the Jersey City Planning Board to convert the existing building into public recreation uses that includes a restaurant/bar with an associated "brew pub" with recreational and instructional bowling and other activities, with regard to the Property

2. Petitioner proposes to obtain permission from the City to use the right-of-way along Morris Pesin Drive and Edward J. Hart Road for the following purposes:
A. The construction of an outdoor public area, repair, replacement and/or protection of the outdoor patio, grass area, seating area, lighting and other ancillary outdoor uses.
B. The construction of a functioning sito that will hold grain to be used in production of the ale,
C. Construction and maintenance of an entryway that is necessary to transition the public from the outdoor area to the building at the Property.
D. All costs associated with these improvements will be incurred by the Petitioner.

3. The contemplated improvements would enhance the Liberty Harbor Redevelopment Plan, and the petitioner's property, and will greatly benefit the Petitioner's property, and the surrounding area and neighborhood.
3505419-1

4. The Petitioner presented the proposed improvements to the Jersey City Zoning Officer and Building Department, which can approve proposed improvements conditions upon the Petitioner being granted a franchise ordinance by the City of Jersey City.

5. The contemplated improvements are necessary to construct the proposed development consistent with the development approvals, and will greatly benefit the Liberty Harbor Redevelopment Plan and Petitioner's property and the surrounding area and neighborhood.

WHEREFORE, your Petitioner respectfully petitions for itself, its successors and assigns, for the enactment of a Franchise Ordinance to allow it to make private improvements within the public right-of-way of One Edward Hart Road adjacent to One Edward Hart Road, all as more particularly shown on the plans annexed hereto and made a part hereof.

The text of the petition and ordinance are in the link presented earlier.

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

And hell, brewpub-slash-bowling-alley sounds AWESOME, even if it is a little out of the way. Build it IN LSP for all I care, it's not like the vast majority of LSP is even being used by the community around it. I just love these NIMBYs who like "saving" useless things just for the sake of preventing progress.

You think the vast majority of LSP is useless?

Not sure how "underutilized" was read as "useless". It's a huge park with far more area than the usage levels require.

You said useless, not underutilized.

Yvonne wrote:
This is on city land located in Liberty State Park...

Monroe wrote:
Great, a development across the street from LSP that will turn a small, M-F 9-5 building into a 7 day a week entertainment facility bringing party animals to a pub that will at least be open to midnight. Yup, Fulop really cares about LSP!

Monroe wrote:
Exxon is still responsible for the cleanup, the $250 million is the fine. Since they are remediating the sites anyone thinking that NJ would get billions more in compensation was smoking something funny.

JcDevil wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

And hell, brewpub-slash-bowling-alley sounds AWESOME, even if it is a little out of the way. Build it IN LSP for all I care, it's not like the vast majority of LSP is even being used by the community around it. I just love these NIMBYs who like "saving" useless things just for the sake of preventing progress.

You think the vast majority of LSP is useless?

Not sure how "underutilized" was read as "useless". It's a huge park with far more area than the usage levels require.

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JcDevil wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

And hell, brewpub-slash-bowling-alley sounds AWESOME, even if it is a little out of the way. Build it IN LSP for all I care, it's not like the vast majority of LSP is even being used by the community around it. I just love these NIMBYs who like "saving" useless things just for the sake of preventing progress.

You think the vast majority of LSP is useless?

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
You think the vast majority of LSP is useless?

JcDevil wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

And hell, brewpub-slash-bowling-alley sounds AWESOME, even if it is a little out of the way. Build it IN LSP for all I care, it's not like the vast majority of LSP is even being used by the community around it. I just love these NIMBYs who like "saving" useless things just for the sake of preventing progress.

bodhipooh wrote:
Sigh... this is another case of Yvonne lying by omission. The business owner already OWNS their location. In exchange for permission to erect a silo on their location (to store grain used in the production of beer) they are committing to building a public outdoor area, adding ways for people to be able to get around to/from, and taking responsibility for upgrading and maintaining the roads around them, which is a great idea, as those roads are in despicable conditions.

tbo wrote:
Sorry - the link to the .pdf from the City Website doesn't seem to work...

It can be found here:

http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/citycouncilagenda/

Jan 13th meeting, 2nd reading

JCman24 wrote:
The area in question has been an active industrial district since before the creation of Liberty State Park. The property is owned by 1 EDWARD HART ROAD LLC, not the city. The project in question is in the Liberty Harbor Redevelopment Area, which means it falls under the authority of the Jersey City Redevelopment Agency, an autonomous entity. There is no "city ordinance 15.179". If I'm mistaken, please provide the text of the ordinance.

JCMan8 wrote:
How is it legal for the mayor to give away city land for free to developers? $1 a year for 99 years is free.

Doesn't this sound like blatant bribery? Something must be missing.

Yvonne wrote:
The picnic pavilion area of Liberty State Park is next to the industrial area.
https://www.google.com/search?q=libert ... XrqpJyOT1u5RTXKb-pafMs%3D

brewster wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Great, a development across the street from LSP that will turn a small, M-F 9-5 building into a 7 day a week entertainment facility bringing party animals to a pub that will at least be open to midnight. Yup, Fulop really cares about LSP!

Again I mourn the loss of the List archives because I can't link to the thread predicting a Traffic Apocalypse if Home Depot were built by the tunnel. There's probably good reason why this deal smells, but that ain't one of them. It-is-not-IN-the-park! No one got hysterical about the indoor racetrack, but that had no political axes to grind.

Monroe wrote:
Great, a development across the street from LSP that will turn a small, M-F 9-5 building into a 7 day a week entertainment facility bringing party animals to a pub that will at least be open to midnight. Yup, Fulop really cares about LSP!

JCman24 wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
The property is located within Morris Pesin Drive and Edward J Hart Road with lot and block numbers. Block 24304, Lot 6.

That's part of Libery Industrial Park and is not a part of Liberty State Park. There are a lot of businesses back there, this is just one of them.