JPhurst wrote:
There is a focus on race and police brutality because race plays a role in police brutality. Yes, there are whites that have been victims. One can acknowledge that and also acknowledge that there is a specific racial component that must be addressed.

There is a "fixation" on race in this country because of the role race has played in this country. Much of the country operated on the backs of slaves. We fought a war over the issue. Among other things, we have had segregation in schools, discrimination in employment, redlining in housing, and people who still can't accept that the President is an American citizen.

I think this country has admirably addressed these problems at times. At other times not so much. The great promise of America is that we can acknowledge such matters and do the right thing. But race is still an issue in this country. Yes, so is class. Those issues are not mutually exclusive.

JPhurst wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:


I don't mind athletes (who, I note are mostly black) getting preference. They get preference because they have a unique talent that has value to the school. Alumni (Legacy)/Donors are a touchy subject but really have little to do with public high school admission. All of that is significantly more justifiable than "we give preference just because someone is X race."

Only if you think that sports teams and fundraising from wealthy alumni is more important than a diverse student body. Even if they are, such preferences are antithetical to worshiping on the altar of "meritocracy" that affirmative action opponents often proclaim to do.

brewster wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
I largely agree with you but what you attribute to "certain parties" (which I assume is a reference to Republicans),

The GOP is only the current keeper of that flame, it used to belong to Southern Democrats. It's a conservative "why should THEY get a hand up?" mentality, whatever the party. As for hood culture, what is there to say? At least no one gets called an oreo for trying to get A's at McNair.

JCMan8 wrote:
I largely agree with you but what you attribute to "certain parties" (which I assume is a reference to Republicans),

brewster wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
I think many, including me, share your general opinion. There should be affirmative action based on economic background and upbringing. But not race.

It's ridiculous to have a system that will give preferences to Obama's daughters but not a poor white family from Appalachia.

Hopefully the Supreme Court finally abolishes this antiquated system for colleges, and affirmative action based on economic upbringing takes its place.

As I said upthread, I mostly agree with you. The difficulty with that approach is that as a nation we have a real problem focusing on class issues as separate from race issues. For at least 150 years, from the time of Irish and Eastern European emigration, certain parties have spent a lot of effort deliberately muddying these waters, getting poor whites to vote against their own self interest in order to keep down "those people". You can see it today in that every time there's an effort to empower the underclass it gets painted in racial terms even though there's usually more whites in that category through sheer demographics. If not that then it's "class warfare", as if the 1% isn't doing that 100% of the time.

Somebody upthread said something about homogeneity in manner and dress even if not in color. That's about class too. You can't act like you're from the hood and get accepted in the educated class.

JCMan8 wrote:
I think many, including me, share your general opinion. There should be affirmative action based on economic background and upbringing. But not race.

It's ridiculous to have a system that will give preferences to Obama's daughters but not a poor white family from Appalachia.

Hopefully the Supreme Court finally abolishes this antiquated system for colleges, and affirmative action based on economic upbringing takes its place.

hero69 wrote:
in my opinion, if college was just about the highest test scores, then colleges would only be able science and engineering. there would be no liberal arts. if colleges are only about scores, then why have sports teams or fine arts programs.

still, i think preferences should probably take income and social background more into consideration than just race. i don't see why a minority who comes from an affluent family background and decided to goof in high school should get any type of preference (other than perhaps alumni) but i am 200% for someone who comes from the pits of camden or appalachia getting some type of preference

devilsadvocate wrote:


I don't mind athletes (who, I note are mostly black) getting preference. They get preference because they have a unique talent that has value to the school. Alumni (Legacy)/Donors are a touchy subject but really have little to do with public high school admission. All of that is significantly more justifiable than "we give preference just because someone is X race."

hero69 wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

Racists say the darndest things!

You know what is racist? Telling well qualified Asians that if they were black (or even white at some schools) that they would accepted but because they're Asian they need to go to a crappier school.

i have no problem using racial quotas to achieve a diverse student body which is reflective of the wider community. people complain about racial preferences, but no complaints about preferences for children of wealthy donors or alumni or athletes. however, i think that admitted students need to be held to same rigorous standards. i remember that i was shocked when i went to college and found it out that some athletes from pretty well to do families were not only not that bright, but they were also getting generous financial support from the college.

JPhurst wrote:
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brewster wrote:


As for GPAs, I'm sure that Stuy like McNair actually has a multiplier on the transcript GPA to reflect the difficulty of the curriculum, something like 1.2 if I recall. So a 3.0 is transmitted as a 3.6.

When I went to HS in NYC we did not have multipliers for Honors or AP classes. It was reflected on the transcript that it was an Honors or AP class but there was no change in the overall GPA. But I did know students in suburban districts who did have a multiplier. Maybe it has since changed.

devilsadvocate wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
A group of Asians sued Harvard for their affirmative action policy, claiming it was race based discrimination against Asians in favor of inferior groups.

I think they are right.

We will see what happens in court.

Racists say the darndest things!

You know what is racist? Telling well qualified Asians that if they were black (or even white at some schools) that they would accepted but because they're Asian they need to go to a crappier school.

brewster wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
I am always puzzled by this, I have taught for many years in the Catholic Schools and my best students were "minority students" by today's standards. They were the ones who won scholarships to Regis High or other private Catholic or other Christian Schools (Friends), I am talking full scholarships. Others were accepted to Stuyvesant Pubic High Schools which is difficult to enter. It was based on their scores not racial groups. I am saddened to see so many Catholic grammar schools close due to charter schools now opening. My students were able to compete. One thing I always tell parents do not push to have the child skip a grade, they would need that advantage taking high school entrance exams.

Good lord, the charters didn't close Catholic schools, changing demographics did. Additionally, the good ones like OLC are fine, crappy ones like Resurrection were closed. It's too bad the the poor public schools can't be closed as easily. But even decent ones like Prep are not an easy sell to top Catholic students, they offered a full scholarship to my son, presumably to bring up their academic record in order to balance their meatheads from the burbs.

I'll leave the low hanging (so to speak) typo fruit to more juvenile Listers......

brewster wrote:


As for GPAs, I'm sure that Stuy like McNair actually has a multiplier on the transcript GPA to reflect the difficulty of the curriculum, something like 1.2 if I recall. So a 3.0 is transmitted as a 3.6.

devilsadvocate wrote:
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Oh please. Spend time at elite colleges/grad schools/employers and you'll find a few things - 1) that there is remarkably little real diversity (everyone is expected to look the same, act the same, etc.), and 2) that to the extent there is any diversity there's massive self-segregation. Yet somehow, these elite places and their alumni do just fine.
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jcguy05 wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Others were accepted to Stuyvesant Pubic High Schools which is difficult to enter. It was based on their scores not racial groups.

Majority of stuy's admission is based off test scores unlike this 25/25/25/25 nonsense. But they do also have some sort of exception system to let some kids in who otherwise didn't make the cut.

It's pretty obvious who they are, everyone knew - when you have 80-90 percent of the class scoring 90s on the tests in various classes, and always the same few kids who got 60s and 70s and have no clue what's going on in class. Look back now it's actually a disservice to those kids as their gpa is much lower than if in a normal hs, which in turn hurts their chances of getting into a good college.

I graduated from stuy in early 2000s not sure if they changed it after that.

Yvonne wrote:
Others were accepted to Stuyvesant Pubic High Schools which is difficult to enter. It was based on their scores not racial groups.

Yvonne wrote:
I am always puzzled by this, I have taught for many years in the Catholic Schools and my best students were "minority students" by today's standards. They were the ones who won scholarships to Regis High or other private Catholic or other Christian Schools (Friends), I am talking full scholarships. Others were accepted to Stuyvesant Pubic High Schools which is difficult to enter. It was based on their scores not racial groups. I am saddened to see so many Catholic grammar schools close due to charter schools now opening. My students were able to compete. One thing I always tell parents do not push to have the child skip a grade, they would need that advantage taking high school entrance exams.

AlexC wrote:
According to the numbers I found above and if they are close to accurate it looks like Asians are over-represented and Hispanics and Blacks under-represented.

To me this means they are actually accepting based on merit, no? I look at my daughter's sophomore class and it really looks like 50% are Asians.

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Adonis wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
I'm sorry that you don't want to see the top 25% of black students go to the best school we have.

I'm sorry you don't want the top 25% of white students go to the best school we have. I'm sorry you don't want the top 25% of all the students go to the best school we have period.

That's the problem with these liberals. They're all against racism unless it's detrimental to their favored race. Equality indeed.

dtjcview wrote:
The comparison with sports team or corporation for that matter is wrong - teams and corporations set a minimum standard then pick the best fit for the team/company. They don't pick based purely on stats.

I don't see McNair being any different. The school itself has values and objectives for itself and for the kids of Jersey City. They value diversity over simple elitism. That education in diversity isn't found in textbooks nor exams - but is immensely valuable in our global multi-cultural society.

As others have pointed out - there are good alternatives to McNair in JC, and a high-achiever doesn't suddenly become a failure because they don't get accepted at a single school.