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Re: McNair Academic High School - racial quota
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According to the numbers I found above and if they are close to accurate it looks like Asians are over-represented and Hispanics and Blacks under-represented.
To me this means they are actually accepting based on merit, no? I look at my daughter's sophomore class and it really looks like 50% are Asians. Quote:
Posted on: 2015/12/29 1:42
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This has been studied extensively with colleges, and it can make your head explode. A lot of studies show that, excepting the "top law" track to SCOTUS, whether you went to an Ivy or just a good school makes no difference in your success. There's also evidence on both sides of the "overreach" debate, whether going to a school that's a stretch for you is wise. Probably most depends on whether you're in humanities or sciences. Anecdotally, I've known plenty of people (and read about more) who got their Bachelors at a 2nd or even 3rd tier schools and went to Ivies or equivalent for their graduate degrees. Had a friend who went to a "ski school" in Salt Lake and was in an applied math doctoral program at Columbia. A cousin who's a top oncologist went to Syracuse. Point is: what you do once you get to college and beyond matters more than where you go.
Posted on: 2015/12/29 0:53
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Just can't stay away
 
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You appear to either have a problem with basic math or with the idea that all groups who make up this very diverse city should have a reasonable shot at getting into a magnent school. But conservatives are like that.
Posted on: 2015/12/29 0:00
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Re: McNair Academic High School - racial quota
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I'm sorry you don't want the top 25% of white students go to the best school we have. I'm sorry you don't want the top 25% of all the students go to the best school we have period. That's the problem with these liberals. They're all against racism unless it's detrimental to their favored race. Equality indeed.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 23:31
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It's even more complex when you consider that a school's job is to maximize every student's potential - return on investment if you like. It's not simply a reward for prior academic success. Imo it's about who benefits the most from an education at McNair. That's tough to measure.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 23:02
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Just to point out how infinitely complex this crap can be, adding magnet schools can be controversial because that leaves the regular schools with only the kids who could not place out. Even LCCS struggled recently just with implementing math tracking, and mostly failed. It's an issue, since AEP and private school kids are a year ahead in math and it can show on the PSAT. I've wondered if McNair makes allowance for that. And FWIW, they do not issue the PSAT scores, so no one can actually claim "I got a better score but didn't get in!" EDIT: to comment on Josh's post, the cutthroat culture at Stuyvesant led to some serious cheating scandals not long ago, and stimulant use is widespread. Is that what we want our kids to learn when they know that scores trump all, including character? I was recently surprised to learn via an college coach family friend that my son's likely Eagle Scout status was a big deal for admissions. It shows things that don't show up in grades and scores. But it's all part of the big picture, otherwise top schools would be full of Mormon Eagle Scouts.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 22:49
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In response to my last post and the posts of others, a lot of people say that the test scores should be prioritized because they are the most uniform measure and allow the best "competitor" to win.
The issue I take with that is that admitting kids into a school is not a game where you give a trophy to the hi-scorer. The district has created an elite school so it can give residents throughout the city the opportunity to partake in a rigorous academic program that will prepare them for the most skilled college and career paths. By all accounts the students in each of the 4 subgroups do well. So the fact that someone filled out a few bubbles more correctly does not make them any more "meritorious" in a way that accomplishes the goals the district has in creating the institution. We could also have kids throw at a dartboard to see who goes in. That is equally "fair." Or see who can touch their nose with their tongue. We would agree that such criteria are ridiculous. A standardized bubble test has SOME common sense relation to academic aptitude, so it's less ridiculous to use it as a criteria. But it not the be all and end all. I understand the desire for meritocracy. I went to one of the "test in" schools in NYC and the general feeling at the time was that it was "fair." But now the top schools have such shockingly low admissions for blacks and hispanics. We are talking around 1-2%. In a city like New York, just like Jersey City, to devote resources to an elite high school which is serving only certain cultural subgroups is highly problematic. Not from a political correctness standpoint, but from the standpoint of anyone who wants to have a school system that serves the entire city.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 22:48
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Great points ALexC and dtcview. thanks for that info.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:25
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The comparison with sports team or corporation for that matter is wrong - teams and corporations set a minimum standard then pick the best fit for the team/company. They don't pick based purely on stats.
I don't see McNair being any different. The school itself has values and objectives for itself and for the kids of Jersey City. They value diversity over simple elitism. That education in diversity isn't found in textbooks nor exams - but is immensely valuable in our global multi-cultural society. As others have pointed out - there are good alternatives to McNair in JC, and a high-achiever doesn't suddenly become a failure because they don't get accepted at a single school.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:20
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Here are the numbers:
2013 JC Population Census: 73,526 28.6% Hispanic 62,072 24.1% Asian alone 61,778 24.0% Black alone 54,746 21.3% White alone 4,645 1.8% Two or more races 279 0.1% American Indian alone 299 0.1% Other race alone http://www.city-data.com/city/Jersey-City-New-Jersey.html Student Diversity 2013-2014 Dr. Ronald E. McNair Academic High School United States Hispanic 21.0% Asian 39.0% African American 16.0% White 19.0% Native American 1.0% https://k12.niche.com/dr-ronald-e-mcna ... gh-school-jersey-city-nj/
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:18
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I am far from a victim. It is actually the opposite. You are attacking a school that works and when you are called out on insinuating that some kids do better than others due to their race you say I am playing the victim. I am the product of public schooling in JC and have never gotten a hand out. I have earned every A I received and any student in Academic is deserving of being there. Someone here said that there isn't enough room. Spend your energy on asking for a BIGGER Academic so that more of our children can get a great education and also a great environment at school like I did at Academic. Is your only solution erasing the quota? Or is the answer working on creating more programs like this? Erase the quota! As a minority I would of still been in that school and so would all the rest of the kids at Academic.
Hey, did you know major companies also look for diversity in their companies? What will you do about that? lol. These programs were created because of ignorant people. Erase the ignorance and you can erase the quotas. Quote:
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:15
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Quote:
Irony.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:03
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Dos A Cero
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Re: McNair Academic High School - racial quota
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We aren?t talking about the same thing. You believe there is racism because there is a quota. There is no evidence that someone that should not be there is forcing someone else out. Until you have that, your argument does not hold water. Here is what we have in approximation: 25% of the population is white. 25% of the population is black. 25% of the population is Asian. 25% of the population is Hispanic. Here is what we have at McNair: 25% of the population is white. 25% of the population is black. 25% of the population is Asian. 25% of the population is Hispanic. So, what you have is black kids competing against black kids for that top 25%. This means that there are black kids which qualify for McNair?s rigorous standards getting left out because they aren?t as good as other black kids. The same is of Asians, whites, and Hispanics. In the end, those top 25% of each group are all equal. This means that there isn?t a black kid there who isn?t just as good as every Asian, white or Hispanic kid upon entering the school. The reality is that McNair turns away a lot of kids of all races that could very well qualify. The problem is that they only have a specific number of seats. If they had an unlimited amount of space to allow in every student that met the standard, the percentages might be different but the number of students in each race would be larger than the number of students of each race that are already attending. I?m not sure why you are bringing up politics. However, no, I?m not confused every time a Republican wins an election. As an example, Corzine was a corrupt pile of garbage masquerading as a human. It isn?t surprising that Christie was able to win.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:02
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Dos A Cero
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Re: McNair Academic High School - racial quota
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noone is suggesting barring certain race from going to the school, but let all races in based on the same academics and scores, not having different requirements based on the skin colors. The only one suggesting certain race is less competition than other races is..YOU. Stop playing the victim.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 21:02
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Is there someone from Academic ( a teacher or board member ) that can tell us if most of the African american or Latino students in Academic are failing out? Some of these comments are quite appalling because you are insinuating that these groups have less competition and I guess (not as smart as other races?)
Is that what some of you are saying? If some of the children don't measure up they would all be failing out of the school. From what I understand that isn't the case. Stop comparing this to the NBA and the work force. This school is the future work force and is prepping it students for the ignorance that they are going to face.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:41
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The quota is one of the factors but you are wrong in saying that the students here aren't the best of the best. Have you heard of the AEP program? Most of those kids go to Academic and that program isn't based on race. Believe me, everyone at Academic is deserving of being there and are at the top. Move on to another school and form something of your liking. Of course you wouldn't move your children to another area which was my point. Whether you want to say it or not diversity is very important and it isn't the main factor driving Academic but it surely has helped in educating children who are coming from homes with such ideals as I am reading here. The latino children and African american children go on to top colleges (surprise!) and we are proud of that coming from impoverished underprivileged and marginalized areas. Create another school and leave Academic alone. In fact we need to move Academic out of downtown and it should be back where it started , at a nice site in Bergen Lafayette or Greenville. Get on your school boards and find out why Ferris, Snyder and Lincoln aren't up to par and part of the reason is lack of diversity. The kids are to caught up in who is different to concentrate on schooling.
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Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:33
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I think our point (and I can only speak for myself in this) is that racial makeup is not, in and of itself, an objective. Or at least it shouldn't be. I won't send my kids to another part of the city just to "increase diversity." I want them to be around the best and the brightest - not those who are "the most diverse." If it happens that the best and the brightest happen to be Jews, E. Europeans, E. Asians, and S. Asians (which, mind you - isn't exactly a a single, homogeneous group - and even those groups should each be subdivided), then so be it. Not that I would have any issues with any other group joining, but they shouldn't be admitted just for the sake of diversity. That is the point. It all reminds me of these bizarre articles of the lack of diversity in silicon valley and tech companies in general. You almost get the image of white good old boys sitting around and smoking cigars. Instead, you see a bunch of people mostly from E. and S. Asia, followed by whites, some middle easterners, etc. all working crazy hours. Oh yes, mostly male (few women tolerate the hours) - but not exactly an undiverse crowd. But it doesn't include the diversity that our fellow liberals want - so we need to re-engineer (pun intended) who is hired to ensure that the result mirrors the results our social engineers desire to see, rather than what is best for the company or the field.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:23
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As an alumni again I must ask those who are claiming racism what is your point?
Second, since you are claiming racism can we take some children from other areas of Jersey City and bring them into the Bergen Lafayette grammar schools. There are some schools in Jersey City that are primarily one color, not to mention there are whole areas in Jersey City that are divided by the race or color of the majority living there. I really believe that a mixed population is healthy. I am not too sure but the original creators of Academic, the parents and others who sat on that board in the late 70's or early 80's (I believe) wanted to create some kind of diversity because historically Jersey City has been a version of a tale of two cities. As we are seeing between Downtown jc and the rest of the city. The original creators of the school wanted a healthy educational environment where children would be exposed to others they otherwise wouldn't have a chance at knowing. Instead of sitting at your computer criticizing the school, why don't you lobby for more academically challenging schools for our students since what is being insinuated is that the overwhelming population of 8th graders in Jersey City are A+ students. If you are talking about being inclusive then look at all the issues in Jersey City and what is happening. You want to call this racism, I can come up with a list of things that have happened in JC that exclude groups of people in favor of others. I would like to know if these same people claiming this would fight for a chance for their kids to attend it when it was a rented small space on Bentley and Bergen ( a block from where a baby was grazed by a bullet this week) Is it because it is on Coles St DTJC that everyone here is clamoring for a spot for their child?'I hope other Alumni chime in with their opinions.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:14
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Yes, you're just qualifying "the best" as out of their particular race. Meaning that they're not actually the best, just the best out of whoever they're allowed to compete against. That is what the quota system means - people of various races never compete against one another, just against members of their own race. The fact that you can't see why this is inherently bizarre and contrary to everything this society should stand for is astounding. But I assume you're confused every single time Republicans do well in elections.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:14
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Is there an example of an Asian basketball player not playing in the NBA while a very average to poor black basketball player is in the NBA? Quote:
The school has a minimum requirement that is academical. They only have a limited number of seats. There are enough students that meet these limitations. Because of this, they have chosen to use diversity to skim out those that are close to the best but, due to class size, cannot be added. You are the person claiming that the school is being racist. The burden of proof is then your responsibility to present. If you do not have an example of a student that should be in the school while a second example of a student that does not meet the standards *is* in the school then your outrage is based on nothing but perception. It is nice that you claim I'm making up fantasies when all evidence and facts are on my side. This also includes the comments made by those with children in the school as well as those that have attended the school.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 20:01
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Dos A Cero
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how do you know there isnt an example? what defines being the best? - There is a clear academic definition of being the best, it is being tossed out in favor of the color of your skin. My perception is based on the school's policy, where as your perception of what i just quoted is based on absolute ZERO fact but your own made up fantasies.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:53
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Ok, lets try a thought exercise: I'm offended (at least for the purposes of this hypo) that in pro basketball that the makeup of all of these teams doesn't reflect the population of the United States. Therefore, we should now limit blacks to the general percentage of the population and reserve the majority for nice white and Asian kids. Any objections? Still no racism?
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:51
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There is no outrage because nobody going to the school hasn't earned it by being the best. There is not one example of a student missing out because someone that isn't qualified is there. Your outrage is over nothing more than your own perception based on zero facts.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:49
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Dos A Cero
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it's sad if you truly believe that. Imagine if the NBA/NFL did that, taking 25% of each race because it takes the "top" players from each category. Or if the military did that - have a quota of 25% for each race to qualify for their top programs. Or if NASA did that, must hire 25% of each race to be a scientist or astronaut. The list goes on. There is absolutely no justification for the racial quota system. The country is built on competition and rewarding the most talented individuals REGARDLESS of race. Not this sad distortion just to have the appearance of political correctness. And this is a school that suppose to teach and education our next generation.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:47
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yes it is, and it is sad. Instead of fostering competition and the spirit of best man wins for the top schools, now it's about the color of your skin. Why should individuals from one race who are better qualified in term of academics / test scores be disqualified in favor of individuals from a different race who scored less and have lower academic records, simply because their skin color is different. How is this not racism, where are the outrage?
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:40
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That depends on the criteria. But, if we?re seeing a discrepancy where one student far below another student in every category is in the school while another is left out, then I would find that to be unfair. Quote:
I think the issue here is that you believe racism is occurring. What I?m saying is that we have a school in which 25% of the applicants are white, 25% of the applicants are Asian, 25% of the applicants are Hispanic and 25% of the applicants are black (numbers based on the census and the idea that every student in the city is applying to the same school). Based on this, the school is taking the top students from each of these categories. That isn?t racism, it is taking the top students and giving everyone a chance. Having a quota doesn?t mean racism is occurring. Having a quota set the way that it is simply means that the make-up of the school will match the make-up of the city.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:33
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WELL SAID!!! Diversity is key. In the 4 years I attended Academic I saw NOT one , I repeat not one Fight which coming from B-L schools was shocking to me. Academic works. Simply put. Others try to imitate but they haven't been able to. If there are so many children who have high grades and are ready for AP and All honors courses then JC residents need to really look into expanding the program not changing it. When I went most of the incoming class were the valedictorians and salutatorians from each class. The school is not for B+ students no matter what race you are to be accepted you need to be qualified.
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Posted on: 2015/12/28 19:14
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Just can't stay away
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Once again the bigots have crawled out from under their respective rocks. Not surprising.
As the father of two sons who both graduated from McNair, I can say that they got a fine high school education that prepared them well for college. The school's selection process seems to work reasonably well. The school reflects the diversity of the Jersey City. Not only is there nothing wrong with that, it is one of the better things about the school. The selection process results in students from a range of cultures, religions and ethnicities, all of whom are excited about learning.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 18:57
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Your post reminded me of this classmate of mine from freshman year in college. She was a 2nd generation Korean girl raised by VERY traditional immigrant parents. From what she told me, her parents already had an issue with her not getting into MIT. My 2nd year I noticed she was missing. So I asked a close friend of hers what happened. Per the info he gave me, she horrified her parents by only getting about a 3.5 GPA instead of a perfect 4.0 (mind you.. this was engineering with a really heavy course load.. she was still in the top 20% of the class). So they hauled her ass back to Maryland, enrolled in Maryland U, and kept her at home where they could closely monitor her academic progress; avoiding any further shame on the family. This explains why she went apoplectic on getting a B grade in the math analysis course we took together. I never understood why she was on the point of full crying breakdown until her friend filled me in on the family details.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 18:37
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If we were to establish that these cases exist, would you agree that there's a problem? Quote: You have not demonstrated racism by the school because the school is not allowing qualified black kids in due to filling Asian quotas. The school is not allowing qualified Asian students in due to filling Hispanic quotas. The school is not allowing qualified Hispanic kids in due to white quotas. The school is not allowing qualified white kids in due to black quotas. It is one big circle. The school is dividing it up based on the racial makeup of the town. That seems equitable given the facts. Nope, disagree entirely. Saying that racism goes all the way around and therefore is just fine is nonsense. And the notion that state instituted racism will make society less racist is also nonsense. At any rate, I'll be glad when it is gone.
Posted on: 2015/12/28 18:20
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