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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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DanL wrote:
there are concerns that need to be addressed BEFORE the city moves forward. this impacts housing / building codes, safety issues, ownership rights, changing use of buildings/units, insurance coverage, affordable housing and rent control.

with zoning its very hard to go backwards, so better to come up with a plan before moving forward.

everyone should be concerned, because most everyone is impacted.


So many Chicken Little types in here... How is passing an AirBnB tax going to bring about any of those dangers and pitfalls into reality?? At the end of the day, how's having an AirBnB guest any different than having a relative or friend visiting and staying with you? Or, opening your home to house sitter while you are out of town?? Yes, someone is paying you to stay there, but what's the big deal? Do people here really believe that because the city is approving a new use tax for AirBnB rentals that will somehow convince hordes of people to start renting their apartments or rooms on AirBnB?? I don't get it.

Posted on: 2015/10/14 16:48
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Airbnb should be banned in Jersey City. Keep the transients in hotels and keep residences for residents. This will only reduce the available housing stock for residents, reduce quality of life for residents, and be an income source for Fulop.

Posted on: 2015/10/14 16:42
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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there are concerns that need to be addressed BEFORE the city moves forward. this impacts housing / building codes, safety issues, ownership rights, changing use of buildings/units, insurance coverage, affordable housing and rent control.

with zoning its very hard to go backwards, so better to come up with a plan before moving forward.

everyone should be concerned, because most everyone is impacted.

Posted on: 2015/10/14 15:20
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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In terms of taxes, it is treating like as like. People use Airbnb just as they use a hotel, they should pay the same tax.

In terms of zoning, the question is whether we want to open up residential areas to transient use. That's a policy decision that needs to be discussed. It has potential effects on quality of life (both positive and negative) and effects on the housing market. As I write that it makes me realize this can encourage landlords under rent control to take their units off the market and use them as short-term rentals.

Haven't seen the wording of the ordinance but there are issues that have to be addressed other than "Airbnb is ubiquitous so we just have to accommodate them and collect the tax."

Posted on: 2015/10/13 19:28
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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It's a tradeoff between possible daily turnover that comes with short term rentals and potentially more revenue.

Not everyone wants to deal with the hassle when a longer term rental is much more hands off especially if you develop a positive relationship with your tenants.

I don't think making this service will open the floodgates and result in neighborhood degradation. Those who want to be hosts now are probably already doing it.

Posted on: 2015/10/13 18:39
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Given the fact that a landlord can earn much more from AirBNB rentals than traditional tenants, it seems to me that you will see fewer and fewer long term rentals available, especially in the Downtown.

These services will not make a dent on rental unit availability.

Consider some basic economics. Let's say own a 3 bedroom, 3 bath duplex. One such listing on AirBNB grabs $300 per night; that could easily rent for $4000/month right now. That means you need to have at least 14 days per month of short-term rental to break even.

The short-term rental will basically require you to become a hotel manager. You need to have a reliable cleaning crew; you need to handle individual customer complaints; you need to protect your reputation, and we know how mightily people bitch about services via the Internet.

With long-term rentals, it's much more hands-off. It's certainly not zero effort, but it's much less work than running a mini-hotel.


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I fear that the renters on my block who I've become friends with, will be forced out. Watch out for the rolling suitcases.

Are these the same renters who are already getting chased out of JC by escalating rents? ;)


On a side note... Renting an apartment in residential neighborhoods may be relatively new to the US, but it is definitely not new. It's common in many big cities and tourist destinations in Europe. It really is not that big a deal.

Posted on: 2015/10/13 15:34
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Just FYI: There are already well over 100 units listed on AirBNB just in 07302.

Prices vary quite a bit. It seems that private rooms are around $150, entire apartments around $300.

Somehow, this has not infected our souls, curved our spines, or kept Two Boots from winning the war on food trucks.

Posted on: 2015/10/13 15:14
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Given the fact that a landlord can earn much more from AirBNB rentals than traditional tenants, it seems to me that you will see fewer and fewer long term rentals available, especially in the Downtown. While this is good for property owners who will see the value of their buildings go up, this may not be so good for the community. I fear that the renters on my block who I've become friends with, will be forced out. Watch out for the rolling suitcases.

Posted on: 2015/10/13 13:34
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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heights wrote:
I don't like the way this smells. It seem the city is implementing a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em tactic. Every towering condo will seem like a hotel and smaller homes similar to that of a motel. Now you will have strangers casing and lurking around YOUR homes and neighborhoods.


Well, yeah you kinda have to. Bans don't work in the long run. See the War on Drugs, etc.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 19:04
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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heights wrote:
I don't like the way this smells. It seem the city is implementing a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em tactic."

That's exactly what they are doing. They aren't beating around the bush about that. ;)


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Every towering condo will seem like a hotel and smaller homes similar to that of a motel. Now you will have strangers casing and lurking around YOUR homes and neighborhoods.

I already feel like I have a bunch of strangers hanging around my neighborhood. That was certainly the case in Hoboken, which was flooded with out-of-towners every weekend. It's not a big deal.

No one will be "casing the buildings," aside from the usual real estate agents. AirB&B users will select units online.

Individual buildings will (afaik) retain the right to ban AirB&B and similar services. I expect higher-end buildings will not look too kindly on units that are only used for this type of service.

I won't say that these services are a slam-dunk, but I don't think an outright ban is going to work very well. It's a very tough thing to enforce. The better question is whether the resulting regulations make sense.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:58
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Dolomiti wrote:
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my2cents wrote:
Spineless response - so blame the association or building owner for not being the gestapo.

Pretty much.

If your building bans smoking in the common areas, then it is not the responsibility of Phillip Morris or the local tobacconist to ensure that the rule is followed in that building.

If a condo association or landlord doesn't enforce a rule, that's not AirBNB's fault.

It's the building's responsibility to ensure that owners are abiding by the rules; and a landlord's responsibility to ensure that tenants are abiding by relevant laws. That includes handling short-term rentals.


But Philip Morris isn't posting on their website places that you can smoke. BTW - smoking in a common public area like a building lobby is illegal under NJ law so the Association or Landlord does not specifically need to be the one enforcing.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:55
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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I don't like the way this smells. It seem the city is implementing a "if you can't beat 'em join 'em tactic. Every towering condo will seem like a hotel and smaller homes similar to that of a motel. Now you will have strangers casing and lurking around YOUR homes and neighborhoods.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:49
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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my2cents wrote:
Spineless response - so blame the association or building owner for not being the gestapo.

Pretty much.

If your building bans smoking in the common areas, then it is not the responsibility of Phillip Morris or the local tobacconist to ensure that the rule is followed in that building.

If a condo association or landlord doesn't enforce a rule, that's not AirBNB's fault.

It's the building's responsibility to ensure that owners are abiding by the rules; and a landlord's responsibility to ensure that tenants are abiding by relevant laws. That includes handling short-term rentals.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:38
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
This is a fee, really a backdoor tax, what service does the city provide?

What specific service does the city provide to hotels?

It's not a "backdoor tax." It's an up-front tax, and it's paid by the guests. It's the same hospitality tax paid by hotel guests.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:21
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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third_street_hats wrote:
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my2cents wrote:
I guess JC needs another form of revenue after the demise of traffic light cameras.

If they are going to implement it, I hope that they have a provision that both the renter and airbnb will be subject to a hefty fine for anyone staying in a nonconforming location (such as a multifamily / condo etc for which the owner in the case of a rental / or the association for a coop/condo hasn't approved).


It isn't airBnB's business to police whether hosts are breaking their lease agreements. Typically this is grounds for lease termination. It is the landlords legal responsibility to adjust to this trend edit their de facto lease agreements if they have not already.


Spineless response - so blame the association or building owner for not being the gestapo. Airnbnb should be proactive in making sure their users are in compliance. Its like being a pimp and saying they are not responsible for what goes on. Give me a break.



That isn't only what it's like. It's AirBnB's business model.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 17:17
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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third_street_hats wrote:
Quote:

my2cents wrote:
I guess JC needs another form of revenue after the demise of traffic light cameras.

If they are going to implement it, I hope that they have a provision that both the renter and airbnb will be subject to a hefty fine for anyone staying in a nonconforming location (such as a multifamily / condo etc for which the owner in the case of a rental / or the association for a coop/condo hasn't approved).


It isn't airBnB's business to police whether hosts are breaking their lease agreements. Typically this is grounds for lease termination. It is the landlords legal responsibility to adjust to this trend edit their de facto lease agreements if they have not already.

That being said, airBnB does have the following in their ToS about removing posts if the above is true:

"You acknowledge and agree that you alone are responsible for any and all Listings and Member Content you post. Accordingly, you represent and warrant that any Listing you post and the booking of, or a Guest's stay at, an Accommodation in a Listing you post (i) will not breach any agreements you have entered into with any third parties, such as homeowners association, condominium, lease or rental agreements, and (ii) will (a) be in compliance with all applicable laws (such as zoning laws and laws governing rentals of residential and other properties), Tax requirements, and rules and regulations that may apply to any Accommodation included in a Listing you post (including having all required permits, licenses and registrations), and (b) not conflict with the rights of third parties. Please note that Airbnb assumes no responsibility for a Host's compliance with any agreements with or duties to third parties, applicable laws, rules and regulations. Airbnb reserves the right, at any time and without prior notice, to remove or disable access to any Listing for any reason, including Listings that Airbnb, in its sole discretion, considers to be objectionable for any reason, in violation of these Terms or Airbnb's then-current Policies and Community Guidelines, or otherwise harmful to the Site, Application or Services."


Spineless response - so blame the association or building owner for not being the gestapo. Airnbnb should be proactive in making sure their users are in compliance. Its like being a pimp and saying they are not responsible for what goes on. Give me a break.

Hopefully in exchange for legitimizing Airnbnb in Jersey City (I am not against the concept), the city should require that Airbnb proactively enforce that those renting out their homes, condos, apartments etc are in compliance - its not that hard.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 16:13
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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my2cents wrote:
I guess JC needs another form of revenue after the demise of traffic light cameras.

If they are going to implement it, I hope that they have a provision that both the renter and airbnb will be subject to a hefty fine for anyone staying in a nonconforming location (such as a multifamily / condo etc for which the owner in the case of a rental / or the association for a coop/condo hasn't approved).


It isn't airBnB's business to police whether hosts are breaking their lease agreements. Typically this is grounds for lease termination. It is the landlords legal responsibility to adjust to this trend edit their de facto lease agreements if they have not already.

That being said, airBnB does have the following in their ToS about removing posts if the above is true:

"You acknowledge and agree that you alone are responsible for any and all Listings and Member Content you post. Accordingly, you represent and warrant that any Listing you post and the booking of, or a Guest's stay at, an Accommodation in a Listing you post (i) will not breach any agreements you have entered into with any third parties, such as homeowners association, condominium, lease or rental agreements, and (ii) will (a) be in compliance with all applicable laws (such as zoning laws and laws governing rentals of residential and other properties), Tax requirements, and rules and regulations that may apply to any Accommodation included in a Listing you post (including having all required permits, licenses and registrations), and (b) not conflict with the rights of third parties. Please note that Airbnb assumes no responsibility for a Host's compliance with any agreements with or duties to third parties, applicable laws, rules and regulations. Airbnb reserves the right, at any time and without prior notice, to remove or disable access to any Listing for any reason, including Listings that Airbnb, in its sole discretion, considers to be objectionable for any reason, in violation of these Terms or Airbnb's then-current Policies and Community Guidelines, or otherwise harmful to the Site, Application or Services."

Posted on: 2015/10/12 16:01
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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I guess JC needs another form of revenue after the demise of traffic light cameras.

If they are going to implement it, I hope that they have a provision that both the renter and airbnb will be subject to a hefty fine for anyone staying in a nonconforming location (such as a multifamily / condo etc for which the owner in the case of a rental / or the association for a coop/condo hasn't approved).

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:44
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:34
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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CatDog wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
This legislation was introduced by Osborne, I spoke against it, yet this shows how this administration is using fees or create higher fees while stating taxes are not going up. It is only a matter of time before this city starts taxing people for regular rentals.


Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
They are not receiving the same service as a hotel such as maid service or breakfast bar. This is just a tax that the small homeowner must eat.


you've got to be f**king kidding me. It's a tax on sales you're generating. The customer pays it. There is just no pleasing you.

Though I do hope that it will limit the frequency or something. I would be really upset if my downstairs neighbors had a constant flux of strangers in and out of the building.


That should be a condo association issue. Not a City issue.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:30
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
This is a fee, really a backdoor tax, what service does the city provide?

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:27
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Schools, Police, firefighters?

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:26
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Does Air BnB report the earnings of people who rent out space?

Seems to me that the big issue might be tax evasion by the owners.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:26
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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This is a fee, really a backdoor tax, what service does the city provide?

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:17
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Is the text of the law publicly available yet?

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:15
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
This legislation was introduced by Osborne, I spoke against it, yet this shows how this administration is using fees or create higher fees while stating taxes are not going up. It is only a matter of time before this city starts taxing people for regular rentals.


Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
They are not receiving the same service as a hotel such as maid service or breakfast bar. This is just a tax that the small homeowner must eat.


you've got to be f**king kidding me. It's a tax on sales you're generating. The customer pays it. There is just no pleasing you.

Though I do hope that it will limit the frequency or something. I would be really upset if my downstairs neighbors had a constant flux of strangers in and out of the building.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:15
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
They are not receiving the same service as a hotel such as maid service or breakfast bar. This is just a tax that the small homeowner must eat.


I never support new or increased taxes on anything--ever. But your logic doesn't make sense to me.

The price of accommodations is established on the market, typically by the type of accommodations and services being provided. If you get less, then you pay less. The city is just taxing the dollar amount. So if you pay less in accommodation fees then you also pay less in taxes.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 15:03
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
The city is not adding any protection or service to the condo renter, it is just putting its hands in your pocket.


Good point. The City should insist on an improved policy of building inspection - plus evidence of liability coverage or something like airbnb's Host Protection insurance. https://www.airbnb.com/host-protection-insurance

If we're taxing it - we're sanctioning it - and it better be up to code and liability covered.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 14:59
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
The city is not adding any protection or service to the condo renter, it is just putting its hands in your pocket.


Keep searching under the couch cushions for excuses.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 14:58
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Re: Jersey City Proposes Legislation to Legalize Airbnb
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Yvonne wrote:
They are not receiving the same service as a hotel such as maid service or breakfast bar. This is just a tax that the small homeowner must eat.


No, it's not. Have you heard of sales tax?

It's collected by the business and remitted by the business to the government. There's no tax impact to the business, only the consumer.

Posted on: 2015/10/12 14:57
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