Frinjc wrote:
One way to ensure compliance would be to double the estimate of number of utilities in a house/condo by default prior to the inspection.

Frinjc wrote:
I am actually one of the few who allowed their house/apart to be inspected during the reval. I can certify that: 1) the "inspector" used a pencil to check/write on the form; 2) the "inspector" did not measure square footage for my property either as room(s) or as a whole; 3) the "inspector" had a gaze suggesting that "facilitating" the process would actually help my cause; 4) I did not provide an envelop. I am available to testify on this under oath.

I'm curious how you folks feel about illegal dwelling units. Thousands of houses in this town are zoned for one family, but may contain 2 or 3 units. It's a much bigger infraction than Prato and its patio furniture but the city knows there are a lot of families that would be homeless if they shut them down en mass. Any renters want to admit that they live in an illegal dwelling?

JCGuys wrote:
There are hundreds of code violations a lot more serious in this town (like the Brothels of Newark Ave...). Prato just had a squeaky neighbor.

The remedy should be as serious as a parking ticket. Pay a fine. Followed by applying and receiving a minor variance.

I'm curious how you folks feel about illegal dwelling units.

To the neighbor, enjoy the reval.

JCGuys wrote:
There are hundreds of code violations a lot more serious in this town (like the still operating Brothels of Newark Ave that our former fire inspector was accused of accepting bribes from, per the federal indictment...). Prato just had a squeaky neighbor. The remedy should be as serious as a parking ticket. Pay a fine. Followed by applying and receiving a minor variance.

I'm curious how you folks feel about illegal dwelling units. Thousands of houses in this town are zoned for one family, but may contain 2 or 3 units. It's a much bigger infraction than Prato and its patio furniture but the city knows there are a lot of families that would be homeless if they shut them down en mass. Any renters want to admit that they live in an illegal dwelling? If you dislike your landlord, I know a way to get him in a lot of trouble but you may lose your below market rental...

To the neighbor's of Prato, enjoy the reval.

JCGuys wrote:
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On_The_3rd wrote:
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MikeyTBC wrote:
24/7 on newark now has outdoor seating.
The horror.

Saw this too, now I can finally have a spot to eat my Skittles and do scratch-offs.

Yeah, but does it meet the zoning code? If not those outdoor seating degrades the quality of life for neighbors.

On_The_3rd wrote:
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MikeyTBC wrote:
24/7 on newark now has outdoor seating.
The horror.

Saw this too, now I can finally have a spot to eat my Skittles and do scratch-offs.

MikeyTBC wrote:
24/7 on newark now has outdoor seating.
The horror.

bodhipooh wrote:
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hamhock wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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hamhock wrote:
I'm still not clear on how Prato having a backyard seating area will bring the neighborhood to its knees, while Dames Espresso's existing backyard space does not. Ditto to how said backyard space will negatively impact a neighborhood with noise, while the tire shop a half block away on Erie does not.

the Dames location is zoned for backyard seating, and has been an eating establishment with garden tables through several name changes. anyone who buys a house near Dames knows that they'll be privy to the noise of outdoor diners.

the tire shop has been there probably since the Coolidge administration.

the Prato bakery is zoned as a takeaway establishment. they knew that when they signed the lease. their neighbors purchased their houses next to a business with a dormant, quiet backyard.

why is this so hard to understand?

It isn't. People are just being willfully ignorant. Those of us being rational about the whole thing would like to see a good, sensible compromise. I don't think ANYONE is actually advocating for Prato going out of business. They have a great product, good employees and are an overall PLUS for the neighborhood and immediate area, but they violated their zoning. Zoning is there for a reason. Any variance should be requested through proper channels, reviewed, discussed, and then granted or denied.

I was singly referring to the "save our children from backyard predators" rant, not being willfully obtuse. I completely agree that Prato should apply for a variance, as that's the smartest way to proceed legally going forward.

On that, I think we can all agree (save for a few nuts...!)

The rant was completely off base, and it was your typical garden variety fear mongering, but a bunch of people here called them out on that.

hamhock wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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hamhock wrote:
I'm still not clear on how Prato having a backyard seating area will bring the neighborhood to its knees, while Dames Espresso's existing backyard space does not. Ditto to how said backyard space will negatively impact a neighborhood with noise, while the tire shop a half block away on Erie does not.

the Dames location is zoned for backyard seating, and has been an eating establishment with garden tables through several name changes. anyone who buys a house near Dames knows that they'll be privy to the noise of outdoor diners.

the tire shop has been there probably since the Coolidge administration.

the Prato bakery is zoned as a takeaway establishment. they knew that when they signed the lease. their neighbors purchased their houses next to a business with a dormant, quiet backyard.

why is this so hard to understand?

It isn't. People are just being willfully ignorant. Those of us being rational about the whole thing would like to see a good, sensible compromise. I don't think ANYONE is actually advocating for Prato going out of business. They have a great product, good employees and are an overall PLUS for the neighborhood and immediate area, but they violated their zoning. Zoning is there for a reason. Any variance should be requested through proper channels, reviewed, discussed, and then granted or denied.

I was singly referring to the "save our children from backyard predators" rant, not being willfully obtuse. I completely agree that Prato should apply for a variance, as that's the smartest way to proceed legally going forward.

bodhipooh wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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hamhock wrote:
I'm still not clear on how Prato having a backyard seating area will bring the neighborhood to its knees, while Dames Espresso's existing backyard space does not. Ditto to how said backyard space will negatively impact a neighborhood with noise, while the tire shop a half block away on Erie does not.

the Dames location is zoned for backyard seating, and has been an eating establishment with garden tables through several name changes. anyone who buys a house near Dames knows that they'll be privy to the noise of outdoor diners.

the tire shop has been there probably since the Coolidge administration.

the Prato bakery is zoned as a takeaway establishment. they knew that when they signed the lease. their neighbors purchased their houses next to a business with a dormant, quiet backyard.

why is this so hard to understand?

It isn't. People are just being willfully ignorant. Those of us being rational about the whole thing would like to see a good, sensible compromise. I don't think ANYONE is actually advocating for Prato going out of business. They have a great product, good employees and are an overall PLUS for the neighborhood and immediate area, but they violated their zoning. Zoning is there for a reason. Any variance should be requested through proper channels, reviewed, discussed, and then granted or denied.

I_heart_JC wrote:
Quote:

hamhock wrote:
I'm still not clear on how Prato having a backyard seating area will bring the neighborhood to its knees, while Dames Espresso's existing backyard space does not. Ditto to how said backyard space will negatively impact a neighborhood with noise, while the tire shop a half block away on Erie does not.

the Dames location is zoned for backyard seating, and has been an eating establishment with garden tables through several name changes. anyone who buys a house near Dames knows that they'll be privy to the noise of outdoor diners.

the tire shop has been there probably since the Coolidge administration.

the Prato bakery is zoned as a takeaway establishment. they knew that when they signed the lease. their neighbors purchased their houses next to a business with a dormant, quiet backyard.

why is this so hard to understand?

hamhock wrote:
I'm still not clear on how Prato having a backyard seating area will bring the neighborhood to its knees, while Dames Espresso's existing backyard space does not. Ditto to how said backyard space will negatively impact a neighborhood with noise, while the tire shop a half block away on Erie does not.

corybraiterman wrote:
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But the city lost an awesome little cafe with an outdoor patio. That's the trade off to satisfy the neighbor.

No they didn't. Prato is still there. For someone defending them as rabidly as you are, perhaps you should patronize the place once in a while?

But the city lost an awesome little cafe with an outdoor patio. That's the trade off to satisfy the neighbor.

jerseymom wrote:
Here is the text of the petition:

Prato Bakery is suffering. A neighbor who lives next door to the business has placed a complaint against the bakery, stopping the preparation of a community back garden, and forcing the bakery to remove all of their tables and chairs as of this morning while the dispute is resolved. This issue places strain on the business and it threatens not only its survival, but the thriving of the community.

Prato is a lovely little neighborhood hub, in the heart of the Jersey City, that offers as uniquely warm atmosphere and is frequented by neighbors and families.

We want to ask the community to support this petition to keep Prato Bakery open, and to encourage Steve Fulop (Mayor of Jersey City) to take action in defending a small business that adds a lot of value and vibrance to a rapidly flourishing community.

(This is utterly ridiculous. This guy expanded from NYC and chose Jersey City to move his business to. He worked for a year to open this place. He is a great guy and a great addition to the JC community. Bakeries do not have a great margin to begin with - impeding business like this could be very harmful. As 3rd noted, what's the real story here?)

so...who's gonna shop at Prato and businesses like it, if not the neighbors?

people who made a huge financial commitment to live in Jersey City - not just collect a paycheck here - deserve to not have their standard of living changed on a neighboring business's whim.

JCGuys wrote:
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I_heart_JC wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
Thanks! Is anyone going to speak in support?

I would like to see more cafe's like Prato Bakeries setup shop in the city, legally.

and there's the key word: legally.

look, I enjoy Prato, and think they're a great addition to the neighborhood, but they entered into their lease with full knowledge of the zoning restrictions (and if they didn't, then they're knuckleheads.)

first, they added indoor tables. then, when nobody complained, they pushed their luck by adding seating out back.

now they've been asked to stick to the letter of the zoning that they originally agreed to, and they're trying to paint their neighbors as pitchfork-wielding NIMBYs.

not cool, Prato.

I really hope this works out to everyone's benefit. I'd like Prato to stay, and I'd like their neighbors to continue to enjoy living there. but if these two notions are mutually exclusive, them I'm gonna have to be Team Neighbor.

You ever try to deal with Jersey City's building, code and zoning officials? They surely don't make it easy on small business owners. It's the last thing they need in New Jersey, which is already a very expensive place to do business.

Not excusing Prato but it should be a wake up call for the rest of us that care about living in a vibrant city that our code and zoning are so restrictive that a place like Prato can't legally open up in the this or other neighborhoods.

Also not a fan of the scare tactics being used by Team Neighbors. Prato and businesses like it are more important to the city than the neighbors own selfish interest.

I remain confident that their will be a last minute morphing of the cafe ordinance so it covers Prato and allows it and others to legally operate.

JCGuys wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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K-Lo wrote:
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zoning are so restrictive that a place like Prato can't legally open up in the this or other neighborhoods

But Prato did legally open, and they were getting great word of mouth and building their customer base....and then they started expanding in a way they knew was illegal. This isn't a repeat of Atomic Wings.

Sigh... Atomic Wings. In the Hall of Shame of JC BD shenanigans, this likely takes the top spot.

I'm unfamiliar. What's the story behind Atomic Wings?