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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Home away from home
 
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The first three instances were more than 125 years ago, so not too much to talk about there (except for the peculiarity of the very first instance, in which a president [John Quincy Adams] was elected into office having won neither the popular vote nor the electoral college vote!) and so you could argue that this whole electoral college thing is a red herring. The most recent instance (the infamous 2000 election and the Florida fiasco) is the only case in recent times in which the electoral college vote result differed from that of the popular vote. Based on the facts to date, it seems like the Electoral College idea is working just fine.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 16:35
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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For what it's worth, Yvonne, both Yun and Boggiano won the first round of balloting and the runoff. Of the council candidates, only Epps won the first round and lost the runoff. With all the other races, the eventual winner was the winner on the first election day.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 14:23
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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News flash, we had independent people who won the council without spending money. The late Morris Pesin won. Yes, independent candidates can win without money. This is why this is so un-American. It favors wealthy candidates. Even Fulop won as an independent. This crushes the independent spirit. Then I must add, Michael Yun and Rich Boggiano also won as independents and needed run-offs to win.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 14:06
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Ah, the good old electoral college system with its 270 vote minimum that's supposed to make our democracy so great. We are the only democracy in the world with such a system and it's dumb, antiquated and should have been disposed of a long time ago. Did you know there have been FOUR presidential elections (including 2000, in case you don't remember) where a candidate won with LESS popular vote than the loser? Not to mention the fact that the electoral college basically results in a few big states controlling the results and candidates mostly focusing on the "swing" states, that are not solid Republican or Democrat, because of this silly winner-take-all policy. Should have gotten rid of it a long time ago, but that will never happen because you'd need to amend the Constitution. Furthermore, you keep talking about how the President needs to get a majority to win, but with the abysmal voter turnout in this country, it's been a long time since any President truly won with a majority of votes. Not getting the part about how moving the election to November favors the wealthy candidate. You need money to run in a place like Jersey City regardless. Whoop de doo. In any case, I'm sure there will be numerous people speaking before the city council about this, and council meetings will take four hours or longer to hear the same old drivel from the same old self-appointed activists who consume endless amounts of time at the podium at every meeting. Better get up there before the council passes its much needed proposed five minute time limit for speaking. Wish that would get passed soon.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 5:23
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Regardless, this change is still un-American, it favors the wealthy candidate and allows someone to win without a 50% plus one majority. Even the President of the USA must reach a threshold of 270 electoral votes. And we wonder why New Jersey is considered a joke. True story- I was in Quebec some years ago, and the only English speaking station was talking about corruption in the US. It involved a former vice-president's son. The reporter on this French speaking station said, this is unusual, New Jersey is known for corruption not this particular area. How I wish, I had that video.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 5:00
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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So... you don't think voters are as smart as you...and can't decide for themselves? Personally I think you're pretty dumb given your posts.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 4:21
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Actually, that sounds American as apple pie, at least recently. But, not surprisingly, I don't follow your reasoning. Clearly one would actually need less money if the plan ends up eliminating the runoff election. Otherwise everyone runs the same race as they would in May against the same opponents. The extra noise of the general election still leaves a level playing field.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 4:13
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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No, I find this change to be very un-American. You need a lot of money to win which leaves the average citizen out of politics.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 3:57
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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...and Yvonne assumes the voters more are stupid than her....
Posted on: 2015/1/13 2:33
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Home away from home
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One is very arguably more qualified for higher office than the other.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 2:17
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Move the election May to November and let the voters decide, not the whiny cry-babies on this thread. You got a problem with it - run on that platform. Put up or shut up.
Posted on: 2015/1/13 2:05
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Santora is a Jersey City native. The pocket park near schools 3 and 4 was named after his father, Al Santora, a boxer. His father taught this sport to many youths in JC. Santora has some of his father in him.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 23:45
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Home away from home
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2011/12/12 0:13 Last Login : 2018/7/28 23:29 From Right here!
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Does anyone know if Santora is as obsessed with his pastoral duties as he is with Jersey City's politics? This guy annoys me.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 23:30
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Just can't stay away
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Understood. I disagree with your take on the matter, but respect that it's not simply partisan-driven.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 22:20
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Yes, I would. I remember the ballot in 1992, it was difficult to read due to the small print, furthermore as I had stated, there was no increase in votes. Schundler won with around 7,000 votes. I am sure some people forgot to vote for mayor after they voted for the general assembly. Besides, the public should have the time to digest the state and county elections before they tackle the mayor/council. I am against eliminating runoffs. This would only favor the candidate with money, an independent candidate, without a run-off, would not have a chance.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 22:14
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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I recall being told when brought this up years ago, to councilman Fulop in fact, that it would require a state vote permitting it similar to the one allowing the date move. I'm all in favor, even though it's not perfect and does have the potential to create some unexpected electoral artifacts. But they can't be worse than what we have now or a runoff-less election.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 22:10
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Letter: Fulop's pulling a Zimmer
Jersey City Mayor Fulop wants to duplicate what Hoboken Mayor Zimmer did in 2012: move the municipal election to November and eliminate runoffs. Bad on both counts. If Fulop and the Jersey City council want to move the election, it should be for 2021 and not for their own terms of office. It's unethical for them to extend their own terms. While many municipalities moved their April and May or June elections to November to save money, some are having second thoughts. The ballot becomes too confusing and turns potential voters off. The bigger races overshadow the smaller ones. City elections are nonpartisan so there is no primary, where fringe candidates can be eliminated. With no primary or runoff, the incumbent is favored and challengers have an uphill battle. We should have an elected official with 50 percent plus one votes to win that office. It's interesting to see the idealistic and conscientious Councilman Fulop persona evaporate when his self-interest is paramount. That is, giving him a cushion when he loses the June 2017 gubernatorial primary and he is stuck with running for a second term as mayor of Jersey City. That's what happens when Jersey City elected a carpetbagger. His ambition is our baggage. Zimmer was able to push her measures through a few weeks after Superstorm Sandy when few people went to the polls. Hope Jersey City has a sunny day if these measures go to ballot and the people reject Fulop's machinations for better government. THE REV. ALEXANDER M. SANTORA HOBOKEN http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... _zimmer.html#incart_river
Posted on: 2015/1/12 22:02
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Just can't stay away
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Yvonne,
If Steve Fulop wasn't potentially using this moved election as a backstop, would you still be opposed to the potential cost savings / higher voter participation associated with moving the vote to November?
Posted on: 2015/1/12 22:01
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Amazing, people here are saying more people will vote if moved to November, then I give the numbers of the special election in November in 1992, now the response is "most sane people" would want the election in November. This is all justification. The voting machines today actually has a smaller surface than the mechanical voting machines used in 1992. And that election was crowded with names. If Healy wanted this because he planned on running for higher office, this forum would be attacking Healy, but there is a blind eye when it comes to Fulop.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 21:50
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Nonsense, he had zero chance of losing to Babs Buono regardless of whatever date the election was held. Even her own party ignored her.
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Posted on: 2015/1/12 20:33
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Posted on: 2015/1/12 20:32
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Home away from home
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my apologies, I was not correct with years.
I still believe it makes sense and will improve what we have, but it is important that any change like this not take effect until after the next term. Run off does become a problem to hold in early December, but we could have what is referred to an instant run off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting Quote:
Posted on: 2015/1/12 20:02
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Anyway, ignoring that, it seems like most sane people in Jersey city are in full support of moving the elections to November. I know I am, and I expect that the ballot will pass by an overwhelming majority. Eliminating runoff elections kinda sucks, but I'm not entirely clear that it's actually doing that? The article says it could eliminate runoffs? Personally I'd like to see preferential voting instead of "first-past-the-post" voting but whatever, having a November election will still see better turnouts.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 19:51
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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That special election did not happen in May, it happened in November during the general election, so the issue it would bring more people to the election backfires. The ballot was very crowded with the general elections and there was no board of ed candidates, then. If was difficult to see the names.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 19:45
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Wow, a mayor elected with just 7000 votes, when the city had a population of around 228,000 at the time (yes, I know not all of those people were of voting age). Can you say pathetic? All the more reason to increase voter turnout and all the more reason to consolidate the elections. The previous poster's mention about $12 million on the special election for Cory Booker is another reason. $12 million to elect somebody one month earlier, in an election that probably didn't have much turnout either? Can you say pathetic and expensive? And we all paid for it. Sad, just sad.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 18:49
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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The voting machines and their graphic design do seriously suck. But that's a lame reason to continue the terrible practice of all these random elections with low turnout and voter fatigue. Hoboken did this and the sky did not fall. Traditionally the HCDO has loved the off elections, since a far higher proportion of the turnout is their paid faithful if turnout is low.
Maybe the money saved can be put towards a new voting system. One with paper trail, big touch screens and different screen pages for different elections on the same day. That way you can't miss a vote, it will ask "do you choose not to vote on this issue?" Properly designed, it would be easy to have a "whole slate" button, or pick and choose, and a summary page at the end before you finish to review and avoid the "Manzo v Manzo" type mistakes. Had FL had this last in 2000, we would not have have had GWB for 8 years.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 18:38
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Yvonne, who would you view as the "career politician" on the 20 candidate ballot -- which I well remember....
Posted on: 2015/1/12 18:17
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Dan L. - just a correction, the 1989 was not a special election, it was a regular election. The special election happened in 1992, when McCann left office and went to jail. The winner would have been Manzo but his brother, Allen, who was jealous of him, ran against him. Schundler had the highest vote at 7,000, Lou came in at 6,000 and his brother, Allen received 4,000. Allen had the top ballot. I heard many people complained they thought they voted for Lou but by mistake they voted for Allen. We have had many elections in the past where it was not a special election and the ballot was packed with names. Government should benefit the public but by changing this it would only benefit career politicians.
Posted on: 2015/1/12 18:15
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Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
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Anything that allows more people to get to the polls is a good thing while costing the city less. Consolidating dates is one measure that I think will get people to the polls.
Another example -- Did anyone really think we should have spent $12 million to elect Booker in October so as not have had him on the ballot on November?
Posted on: 2015/1/12 18:03
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Wow, so true. Good Catch! So True!
Posted on: 2015/1/12 17:50
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