JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City [Politics & Government]

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Hahaha, what a waste of time and taxpayer money thanks to the idiots at the VVPA. How much money did they waste fighting this project on what was known to be very shaky, if nonexistent legal grounds at all?

I'm sure the community will get none of the prior concessions the developer offered now. The VVPA should apologize to the entire community for dragging this out for so long.

Not to mention, if this has been allowed to move forward, there would have been more ratable units to help absorb the reval impact. This is a lose-lose thanks to old timer NIMBYism and VVPA morons thinking they're entitled to free parking for eternity.

Along the same lines, it occurs to me that this is yet another setback to the longstanding power and influence of NAs. I am glad to see their (previously) unchecked actions being curtailed by the courts, and even newcomers who are starting to question how they operate.

Posted on: 2017/12/21 21:08

dr_nick_riviera

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Hahaha, what a waste of time and taxpayer money thanks to the idiots at the VVPA. How much money did they waste fighting this project on what was known to be very shaky, if nonexistent legal grounds at all?

I'm sure the community will get none of the prior concessions the developer offered now. The VVPA should apologize to the entire community for dragging this out for so long.

Not to mention, if this has been allowed to move forward, there would have been more ratable units to help absorb the reval impact. This is a lose-lose thanks to old timer NIMBYism and VVPA morons thinking they're entitled to free parking for eternity.

Posted on: 2017/12/21 19:45

neverleft

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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.
Court win for developer of micro units opposed by neighbors

Updated 1:20 PM; Posted 1:20 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- The four-year fight over a micro-unit building slated for Downtown Jersey City is finally over, with the New Jersey Supreme Court this month declining to hear an appeal by a neighborhood group opposed to the plan.

The court's decision allows developer Rushman-Dillon to move forward with the 87-unit, five-story building, slated for a lot at Bright and Varick streets in the city's Van Vorst Park neighborhood. Neighbors opposed the plan but a Hudson County Superior Court judge in 2014 ordered automatic approval -- meaning the developer can move ahead with construction without approval from the city Planning Board -- because the city failed to OK the project during a time period prescribed by state law.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... i.html#incart_river_index

Posted on: 2017/12/21 18:44

Binky

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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donnajc65 wrote:...Its clear by the Judges decision that he was sending a message to the city and the community that the law trumps the politics. This is a very strong opinion to grant automatic site plan. Perhaps if the Mayor had hired a professional to run HEDC, he would have had better advice. Instead, Anthony Cruz comes off looking like a political hack of the first order.

The way I see it the manipulation of the law under the previous administration trumped community input.
And someone lost their job.

Posted on: 2014/9/12 16:59

tommyc_37

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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vindication15 wrote:
if all historic neighborhoods were preserved and the look and feel of those neighborhoods remained the same then we would literally still have dirt roads and wooden houses....

That'd be pretty sweet.

Posted on: 2014/9/12 15:33

donnajc65

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Its clear by the Judges decision that he was sending a message to the city and the community that the law trumps the politics. This is a very strong opinion to grant automatic site plan. Perhaps if the Mayor had hired a professional to run HEDC, he would have had better advice. Instead, Anthony Cruz comes off looking like a political hack of the first order.

http://www.brightandvarickcourtdecision.com/decision.pdf

Posted on: 2014/9/12 15:17

vindication15

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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if all historic neighborhoods were preserved and the look and feel of those neighborhoods remained the same then we would literally still have dirt roads and wooden houses....

Posted on: 2014/9/11 20:26

hero69

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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i happen to believe that an attractive modern building can complement older brownstown buildings

Posted on: 2014/9/11 19:05

T-Bird

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Apparently, more than a few people get by with less than $100k per year. The median Jersey City family income per the 2010 census was $58,533. Granted, downtown skews considerably higher (certain census tracts downtown are over $120k median.) But all of Jersey City would qualify as being in the metro NY region.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 19:01

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Fair enough, but one piece of advice from someone older and (hopefully a little) wiser: don't let your income either depress nor inflate your sense of worth. Money can come or go, sometimes surprisingly easily.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 19:00

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
My good fellow-poster Bodipooh wrote:
"I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me."

So, to him, it's not mediocre. IS $100K MEDIOCRE OR ISN'T IT, GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!!

Plus, by that logic, teachers don't like their lives. The ones I know seem cheery enough.

Dude, this sure touched some sort of raw nerve in you. Let's see, my statement said two things:
1) 100K salary is not mediocre (to me)
2) such a salary would depress me

Somehow, you took all of that to mean that I consider those making that (or, less) to be losers (nice leap!) and that because I think it would be depressing to me that is somehow incongruous with the previous statement (how so?)

Faux-humility is exactly that: FAKE. If you are proud of your accomplishments, revel in them (if you want) or enjoy them (if you are so inclined) or be embarrassed by them (up to you) but that's a personal decision. Everything that you have accused me of is entirely in your head. None of it was stated by me.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:54

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
My good fellow-poster Bodipooh wrote:
"I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me."

So, to him, it's not mediocre. IS $100K MEDIOCRE OR ISN'T IT, GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!!

Plus, by that logic, teachers don't like their lives. The ones I know seem cheery enough

Again, we said that they are mediocre salaries and yes, that we would be depressed if we earned that. Some people are fine living like that for a variety of reasons (maybe they inherited their house or a substantial sum of money, maybe they have no loans, maybe they have frugal spending habits, maybe they're married to a high earning spouse, etc.). You're needlessly conflating the notion that we wouldn't be satisfied with that with "we must think they're total losers."

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:37

JCMan8

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
My good fellow-poster Bodipooh wrote:
"I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me."

So, to him, it's not mediocre. IS $100K MEDIOCRE OR ISN'T IT, GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!!

Plus, by that logic, teachers don't like their lives. The ones I know seem cheery enough.

Actually, by his logic, only people who like to spend a lot of money would not like their lives earning $100k or less. The cheery teachers you know presumably do not fit into this category.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:37

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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My good fellow-poster Bodipooh wrote:
"I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me."

So, to him, it's not mediocre. IS $100K MEDIOCRE OR ISN'T IT, GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT!!

Plus, by that logic, teachers don't like their lives. The ones I know seem cheery enough.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:34

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
I wasn't disagreeing that $100k is not a huge amount to live on; indeed, I earn considerably more and I certainly don't feel rich. I'm just suggesting a bit more sensitivity on the subject. "I don't know how those losers POSSIBLY get by on less than $100,000" comes off as pretty dick-ish.

I don't think anyone was saying they were losers. We were saying that is a mediocre salary. These two don't mean the same thing. Teachers aren't losers but they do earn a mediocre salary.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:28

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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I wasn't disagreeing that $100k is not a huge amount to live on; indeed, I earn considerably more and I certainly don't feel rich. I'm just suggesting a bit more sensitivity on the subject. "I don't know how those losers POSSIBLY get by on less than $100,000" comes off as pretty dick-ish.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 18:24

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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jcdd wrote:
Agreed. And if you have kids and presumably work to make that 100K, its really not going to go far in this neck of the woods. Good luck finding full time daycare for less than 18K a year. And if you have student loans (presumable to get a degree that allows you to make 100K), that's probably another 600 to 1000K per month payment, on top of your other expenses. At this rate, you are living paycheck to paycheck.

Gosh, I wasn't even thinking about kids. Can't really imagine kids in the NYC-metro on less than $250k-$300k/year.

That's because this is a thread about microapartments. The idea of a family, daycare etc doesn't really factor into the salary needed to comfortably afford a tiny studio apartment.

The thread may not be about kids, and it may have started with the micro apartments, but the most recent replies are in reaction to the statement made by blanquiita stating that 100K is a 90s-era income and that it shouldnt be considered mediocre.

I get that some people can make do on half that. Personally, I couldn't do it. Not at the level of life quality I have been able to achieve and would like to preserve. If that makes me an aloof, out of touch, two percenter (which, apparently, I am) then so be it. I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me.

Dude, relax with the self-conrats. Based on what I see, nobody in JC is living like a pasha. We all get that you're proud of your accomplishments, but maybe get over yourself a little.

Kind of weird that you think that is self-congratulatory. It is a statement of fact and one I agree with. And looking at real estate prices around DTJC, I don't think he is out of touch with reality at all.

We're not even talking about the amounts that it would take to live like the best in DTJC. No lack of single family housing for sale in the $1-3 million range these days.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 17:54

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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jcdd wrote:
But don't forget about those nasty student loans! You might not have had them back in the day, but most kids ( aside from those who are fortunate enough to have parents floating them through college, and probably aren't living in micro apartments anyway) do. If you owe $100,000 in student loans (that's actually not much these days, especially if you went to grad school), you are looking at an $800 to $1000 a month payment, even factoring in the more "generous" income based repayment plan (IBR), which you may not even qualify for. Many young kids I know that went to grad school/law school/med school owe much more than that.

This cannot be understated as a factor. Top law schools/med schools/MBA programs result in $60-90k in debt PER YEAR. Here's a nice local example: http://web.law.columbia.edu/financial ... d-billing/costs-budgeting (Now, note that when you add in room and board at a conservative cost, you end up at over $85k. Add in even basic miscellaneous expenses and you're at $90k. For those that don't know, law school is 3 years, med school is 4 and MBA programs are 2 years full time). So in other words, if you attend Columbia law you can reasonably expect student loans of over $250k (NOT INCLUDING UNDERGRAD). But wait you scream, lawyers make a TON! Nope, major law firm starting salaries (and not all Columbia law grads will get one of these jobs) have remained stagnant at $160k + a smallish bonus. Few people last in these jobs beyond 3-4 years, and many find that these few years are actually their highest earning. MBAs and MDs aren't doing fantastic these days either while their tuition costs have risen in a similar fashion.

As for IBR, that a) doesn't apply to private loans (which, you'll probably need if you have to take $90k/year in debt) and b) functions in a manner that if you ever earn decent money you'll be repaying all that deferred interest from earlier IBR periods. In other words, it basically ensures that our youth starts their young professional life already screwed. So once again, especially long term I cannot understate the long term impacts of this.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 17:48

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

jcdd wrote:
Agreed. And if you have kids and presumably work to make that 100K, its really not going to go far in this neck of the woods. Good luck finding full time daycare for less than 18K a year. And if you have student loans (presumable to get a degree that allows you to make 100K), that's probably another 600 to 1000K per month payment, on top of your other expenses. At this rate, you are living paycheck to paycheck.

Gosh, I wasn't even thinking about kids. Can't really imagine kids in the NYC-metro on less than $250k-$300k/year.

That's because this is a thread about microapartments. The idea of a family, daycare etc doesn't really factor into the salary needed to comfortably afford a tiny studio apartment.

The thread may not be about kids, and it may have started with the micro apartments, but the most recent replies are in reaction to the statement made by blanquiita stating that 100K is a 90s-era income and that it shouldnt be considered mediocre.

I get that some people can make do on half that. Personally, I couldn't do it. Not at the level of life quality I have been able to achieve and would like to preserve. If that makes me an aloof, out of touch, two percenter (which, apparently, I am) then so be it. I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me.

Dude, relax with the self-conrats. Based on what I see, nobody in JC is living like a pasha. We all get that you're proud of your accomplishments, but maybe get over yourself a little.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 17:40

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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blanquiita wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.

This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.

No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.

It's mediocre based on what?

Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?

I hate to even venture into this particular debate, but I kind of get what devilsadvocate is saying. If I was only making 100K per year, I don't know how I would make do. Maybe I like living large a little too much. But 100K in this region is really not much at all. After basic expenses (rent, car payments, auto and health insurance, utilities, etc) I would be living with very little left over to enjoy myself.

Exactly. You can't get decent housing, a good car, and live a decent lifestyle on $100k. Not in the NYC-metro area, anyway. In middle America where you can get a decent house for about $100k that might be fine. But if I were earning only $100k per year I'd be pretty depressed.

Ok, but then your comment about mediocre is purely subjective as opposed to objective (based on salary/cost of living data in the area)

Oh, please. This being a LOCAL BBS / servlist, it is implied that most statements are local and/or regional.

I know he was speaking locally. Didn't dispute that. I was saying that we need data to say 100K is objectively mediocre, instead of subjectively. In relative terms, 100K could be a lot of money if one doesn't have a car, eat/drink out often, minimizes expense, etc.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 17:06

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

blanquiita wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.

This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.

No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.

It's mediocre based on what?

Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?

I hate to even venture into this particular debate, but I kind of get what devilsadvocate is saying. If I was only making 100K per year, I don't know how I would make do. Maybe I like living large a little too much. But 100K in this region is really not much at all. After basic expenses (rent, car payments, auto and health insurance, utilities, etc) I would be living with very little left over to enjoy myself.

Exactly. You can't get decent housing, a good car, and live a decent lifestyle on $100k. Not in the NYC-metro area, anyway. In middle America where you can get a decent house for about $100k that might be fine. But if I were earning only $100k per year I'd be pretty depressed.

Ok, but then your comment about mediocre is purely subjective as opposed to objective (based on salary/cost of living data in the area)

Oh, please. This being a LOCAL BBS / servlist, it is implied that most statements are local and/or regional.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:50

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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tommyc_37 wrote:
Everything is definitely relative. When I moved to Jersey City 8.5 years ago, my monthly Cost of Living was literally 25% of what it is today! Back then, I could not imagine having 4x the monthly expenses, and I would probably also find it hard to imagine what I'm earning now.

This, exactly! When I had my first job out of college 17 years ago, I clearly remember thinking "wow, I am doing great" with a starting salary of 32K. I almost laugh at my young self now. I think back 8 years, when I first came to JC, and while my expenses are about the same, my income has improved a good amount, and I realize two things: 1) I was living beyond my means for a (short) while, and 2) I wouldn't want to give up what I have achieved. Life is good!

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:48

WhoElseCouldIBe

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

blanquiita wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.

This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.

No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.

It's mediocre based on what?

Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?

I hate to even venture into this particular debate, but I kind of get what devilsadvocate is saying. If I was only making 100K per year, I don't know how I would make do. Maybe I like living large a little too much. But 100K in this region is really not much at all. After basic expenses (rent, car payments, auto and health insurance, utilities, etc) I would be living with very little left over to enjoy myself.

Exactly. You can't get decent housing, a good car, and live a decent lifestyle on $100k. Not in the NYC-metro area, anyway. In middle America where you can get a decent house for about $100k that might be fine. But if I were earning only $100k per year I'd be pretty depressed.

Ok, but then your comment about mediocre is purely subjective as opposed to objective (based on salary/cost of living data in the area)

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:41

tommyc_37

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Everything is definitely relative. When I moved to Jersey City 8.5 years ago, my monthly Cost of Living was literally 25% of what it is today! Back then, I could not imagine having 4x the monthly expenses, and I would probably also find it hard to imagine what I'm earning now.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:35

jcdd

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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But don't forget about those nasty student loans! You might not have had them back in the day, but most kids ( aside from those who are fortunate enough to have parents floating them through college, and probably aren't living in micro apartments anyway) do. If you owe $100,000 in student loans (that's actually not much these days, especially if you went to grad school), you are looking at an $800 to $1000 a month payment, even factoring in the more "generous" income based repayment plan (IBR), which you may not even qualify for. Many young kids I know that went to grad school/law school/med school owe much more than that.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:31

Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City

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Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

jcdd wrote:
Agreed. And if you have kids and presumably work to make that 100K, its really not going to go far in this neck of the woods. Good luck finding full time daycare for less than 18K a year. And if you have student loans (presumable to get a degree that allows you to make 100K), that's probably another 600 to 1000K per month payment, on top of your other expenses. At this rate, you are living paycheck to paycheck.

Gosh, I wasn't even thinking about kids. Can't really imagine kids in the NYC-metro on less than $250k-$300k/year.

That's because this is a thread about microapartments. The idea of a family, daycare etc doesn't really factor into the salary needed to comfortably afford a tiny studio apartment.

The thread may not be about kids, and it may have started with the micro apartments, but the most recent replies are in reaction to the statement made by blanquiita stating that 100K is a 90s-era income and that it shouldnt be considered mediocre.

I get that some people can make do on half that. Personally, I couldn't do it. Not at the level of life quality I have been able to achieve and would like to preserve. If that makes me an aloof, out of touch, two percenter (which, apparently, I am) then so be it. I like my life. I am not going to say that 100K is mediocre (I don't believe it is) but to repeat what someone else has said, it would depress me.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 16:24