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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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hero69 wrote:
guess what! Washington has highest minimum wage rate but its doing dandy

While that makes sense, I'd still hesitate to draw too strong a conclusion here. There are lots of other factors involved.

NJ's law looks like a good idea, though -- annual wage hikes linked to CPI.

Posted on: 2014/3/5 14:21
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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guess what! Washington has highest minimum wage rate but its doing dandy

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03 ... -beats-u-s-with-jobs.html

Posted on: 2014/3/5 13:44
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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dtjcview wrote:
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thor800 wrote:
Corporations already pay taxes less than half than that of a typical taxpayer.

How about limiting executive bonuses and compensation ? These are the worst examples of a market rate


I view that as part of the eat-the-rich vs eat-the-poor bipolar argument that's been going on for decades. Need to figure ways of getting everyone pulling in the same direction...

Kind of like sandbox rhetoric here. Wage set too low the boss wins, wage set too high the worker wins. Boss pays whatever he wants and the worker opts for the welfare check or the worker does not strive for the better.

Posted on: 2014/2/16 13:52
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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why is it ok to pay executives millions that corporations can deduct, while john doe can't even deduct his health insurance

Posted on: 2014/2/16 2:07
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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thor800 wrote:
Corporations already pay taxes less than half than that of a typical taxpayer.

How about limiting executive bonuses and compensation ? These are the worst examples of a market rate


I view that as part of the eat-the-rich vs eat-the-poor bipolar argument that's been going on for decades. Need to figure ways of getting everyone pulling in the same direction...

Posted on: 2014/2/15 18:38
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Corporations already pay taxes less than half than that of a typical taxpayer.

How about limiting executive bonuses and compensation ? These are the worst examples of a market rate

Posted on: 2014/2/15 17:42
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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To me this $4 idea just screams wrong. It's a direct gov subsidy to a company's bottom line - labor costs. Haven't we been battling those kinds of subsidies for decades against other countries?

We'd be better off tackling this from the top line. For example, how about cutting corporation tax by 5% and instead sharing that profit with workers getting less than a defined minimum?

Posted on: 2014/2/15 13:33
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Adonis wrote:
That reinforces my point.

Does it? Really?

1) It is not the case that the law was motivated by racism. In fact, it was the exceptions that were motivated by racism.

2) The law was not designed to cultivate minority voters.

3) The Democrats were not particularly interested in minority voters at that time. (E.g. blacks were a heavily Republican constituency until the 1960s.)

4) It is the Republicans, not the Democrats, who seem to be associating minimum wages with minorities. E.g.:

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/12/rais ... jobless-rate-is-now-44-3/

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/ ... ike-will-hurt-minorities/

Meanwhile, the primary beneficiaries are mostly young and white.

By the way, as far as I know the claim that "minority workers will be harmed by minimum wage increases" is not supported by any empirical data.

And whom did Obama say he wants to help? This is from the 2014 SOTU Address:

"Today the federal minimum wage is worth about twenty percent less than it was when Ronald Reagan first stood here. And Tom Harkin and George Miller have a bill to fix that by lifting the minimum wage to $10.10. It's easy to remember: 10.10. This will help families. It will give businesses customers with more money to spend. It does not involve any new bureaucratic program. So join the rest of the country. Say yes. Give America a raise."

Also, review a transcript of Obama's remarks on the minimum wage. Minorities are never mentioned; he only discusses families. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-o ... nt-minimum-wage-lanham-md

5) The BLS did not start collecting employment data by race until 1952. For 1952 to now, black unemployment has consistently been higher than, and largely in tandem with, white unemployment. There is no correlation between minority unemployment rates and changes to the minimum wage.

I know of no reliable data sources which claim that unemployment was lower for blacks than for whites prior to 1938. Such data would also be complicated by institutional racism, e.g. sharecropper systems, difficulty collecting data in the South.


Not really seeing how any of the facts support any of your claims.


You have to do more research. JC List isn't important enough to me to do it for you especially since it's such a limited audience.

Eventually you'll see the light, I hope.

Posted on: 2014/2/15 5:52
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Adonis wrote:
That reinforces my point.

Does it? Really?

1) It is not the case that the law was motivated by racism. In fact, it was the exceptions that were motivated by racism.

2) The law was not designed to cultivate minority voters.

3) The Democrats were not particularly interested in minority voters at that time. (E.g. blacks were a heavily Republican constituency until the 1960s.)

4) It is the Republicans, not the Democrats, who seem to be associating minimum wages with minorities. E.g.:

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/12/rais ... jobless-rate-is-now-44-3/

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/ ... ike-will-hurt-minorities/

Meanwhile, the primary beneficiaries are mostly young and white.

By the way, as far as I know the claim that "minority workers will be harmed by minimum wage increases" is not supported by any empirical data.

And whom did Obama say he wants to help? This is from the 2014 SOTU Address:

"Today the federal minimum wage is worth about twenty percent less than it was when Ronald Reagan first stood here. And Tom Harkin and George Miller have a bill to fix that by lifting the minimum wage to $10.10. It's easy to remember: 10.10. This will help families. It will give businesses customers with more money to spend. It does not involve any new bureaucratic program. So join the rest of the country. Say yes. Give America a raise."

Also, review a transcript of Obama's remarks on the minimum wage. Minorities are never mentioned; he only discusses families. http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-o ... nt-minimum-wage-lanham-md

5) The BLS did not start collecting employment data by race until 1952. For 1952 to now, black unemployment has consistently been higher than, and largely in tandem with, white unemployment. There is no correlation between minority unemployment rates and changes to the minimum wage.

I know of no reliable data sources which claim that unemployment was lower for blacks than for whites prior to 1938. Such data would also be complicated by institutional racism, e.g. sharecropper systems, difficulty collecting data in the South.


Not really seeing how any of the facts support any of your claims.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 18:24
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Dolomiti wrote:
78% of minimum wage workers are white.


That reinforces my point.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 15:45
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Adonis wrote:
Minimum wage laws are racist laws. They were first enacted decades ago.....

Today, only 1.5 million workers earn the minimum wage. Another 2 million are in jobs exempted from MW (e.g. jobs that pay with tips). These two groups combined are around 4% of the workforce.

78% of minimum wage workers are white.

Half are between the ages of 17 and 24. Most work part-time.

The US passed its first minimum wage law in 1938. That same law barred most child labor, guaranteed overtime pay for numerous occupations, and set a 44-hour work week.

The racism of the legislators who voted for the Fair Labor Standards Act wasn't in establishing minimum wages. It was in the exemptions for agricultural and domestic workers, pushed by racist white Southern Democrats, who wanted to maintain cheap African-American labor.

Remember, at that time blacks voted mostly Republican -- that is, when they were allowed to vote at all.

I do not think they should tie in tips as part of pay you are at the mercy of a second boss...the customer. Also having products made in another country other than the USA is unfair competition due tho their low salaries. We should not use foreign products unless their working conditions and salaries are equal to ours.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 12:53
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Adonis wrote:
Minimum wage laws are racist laws. They were first enacted decades ago.....

Today, only 1.5 million workers earn the minimum wage. Another 2 million are in jobs exempted from MW (e.g. jobs that pay with tips). These two groups combined are around 4% of the workforce.

78% of minimum wage workers are white.

Half are between the ages of 17 and 24. Most work part-time.

The US passed its first minimum wage law in 1938. That same law barred most child labor, guaranteed overtime pay for numerous occupations, and set a 44-hour work week.

The racism of the legislators who voted for the Fair Labor Standards Act wasn't in establishing minimum wages. It was in the exemptions for agricultural and domestic workers, pushed by racist white Southern Democrats, who wanted to maintain cheap African-American labor.

Remember, at that time blacks voted mostly Republican -- that is, when they were allowed to vote at all.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 11:34
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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adonis - i am touched by your eloquence in wanting to stop the exploitation of blacks by the democratic party. lol. i can see the day when i can have a maid in each room working for $1 a day.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 3:14
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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It's a MINIMUM wage people, not a maximum. If you bring a skill set to an employer that's more valuable to them than minimum wage then you'll get what you're worth (if you're smart about it).

All the minimum wage does is make a de facto minimum requirement that an employer has to meet to pass regulatory muster. If there was no minimum wage then employers would be forced to pay somebody what that person is worth no matter what wage rate that is.

Minimum wage laws are racist laws. They were first enacted decades ago when when whites felt threatened that blacks were undercutting the current pay levels by being willing to work for less than whites. White people responded by creating minimum wage laws to force employers to pay more. The result was that employers decided to higher white people instead of black people since they had to pay the higher wage anyway. The last time the black unemployment rate was less than the white unemployment rate was right before the first minimum wage laws were created. And over the years as the minimum wage laws have expanded so has black unemployment. This is one set of laws that has worked exactly as it was intended. The problem is that now Democratic politicians have exploited people's ignorance to make it seem that these laws are helping minorities. But that's what Democrats excel at doing after all.

The quicker minimum wage laws are eradicated the better for everybody.

Posted on: 2014/2/14 1:49
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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i am curious, it is possible to be against a legal minimum wage and still be a good person? what say you JCList?

Posted on: 2014/2/14 1:38
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Before we even start considering this minimum wage issue why not go back to the Eisenhower era where we tax the wealthy up to 90% of their income and that should include members of congress. Not until recently, in most parts of Europe the income of the highest paid CEO was only four times the national average. Now thats what I call true checks and balance and perhaps address our national debt.

Posted on: 2014/2/13 19:52
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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And why stop at an $8.00/hour minimum wage? Why pay poor working people at all? As I pointed out on another post, here is a suggestion to make conservatives and Republicans drool - just auction off the poor. Oh you might need to slip them some gruel, and provide some straw to sleep on, but maybe get away without a salary: http://www.poorhousestory.com/AUCTION_POOR.htm

Posted on: 2014/2/13 19:32
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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JCMan8 wrote:
Obviously no one here actually read this article. I thought it was crazy too, until I read it.

I read it too, and think it's the most insane idea since the plot for "The Purge" (sci -fi movie were all laws are suspended for 1 night, so people can run amok and blow off steam)!

Corporate America would LOVE this! CEO compensation and bonuses would go through the roof, Welfare rolls would explode, Republicans would knock themselves out thinking of ways to eliminate the government subsidy.

Posted on: 2014/2/13 19:26
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Consider the source: The American Enterprise Institute. It’s a neo-con think tank that gets paid to write things that favor its pro-business mission. It’s like the American Dairy Association suggesting that we drink more milk. No shit—really?

Posted on: 2014/2/13 18:28
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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This is a fundamental misreading of the problem with the labor market. Does anyone think there are millions of low skill jobs going vacant because no one wants to pay $7.25?

The reality is profit margins are at an all time high, so the ability of companies to absorb more costs for salary is not an issue (by an large). Give Walmart the opportunity to hire for $4 instead of $7.25 and all that happens is you have the same minimum staffing level, but Wal-Mart is paying less and the government is paying more.


Posted on: 2014/2/13 18:16
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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And the subsidy would be paid for by lowering/eliminating the mortgage interest tax deduction for wealthy homeowners.

I don't think wages are an issue in unemployment. Corporate America is healthy and sitting on mounds of cash. If you can't afford to pay someone a $60 paycheck for a full day's work, your business can't be much of a business.

Posted on: 2014/2/13 18:11
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Obviously no one here actually read this article. I thought it was crazy too, until I read it. Really isn't so bad because the guy says the federal government would also pay $4 an hour.

So it is actually raising the minimum wage to $8 an hour.

Would never happen because people will say why should the federal government be subsidizing private industry to such a degree? But he makes the interesting point that this will help many long-term unemployed get jobs they ordinarily wouldn't have gotten, and at a higher wage than now.

Posted on: 2014/2/13 17:55
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Don't feed the troll folks.

Posted on: 2014/2/13 17:52
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Re: $4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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Could you pay your bills on $4/hr?

Posted on: 2014/2/13 17:32
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$4 minimum wage would cure jobless rates
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If Obama, Christie and the politicians want to get America back to work, maybe they should consider 4 minimum wage instead of nonsense talk about $10 per hour.

Look at India and Bangladesh as examples of the wonders of low or no minimum wages.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02 ... -people-back-to-work.html

Posted on: 2014/2/13 17:30
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