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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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dtjcview wrote:
Thanks Nyrgravey9.

And for the record there's no excuse for a dog owner not picking up their dog poop. I'm happy to see dog owners fined for that. What earned me my "champion" moniker was opposing public shaming by posting photos or videos. I happen to believe it can lead to unnecessary friction between residents.

What might be a good alternative to public shaming is the City implements an app like this. Take a photo with time and location, and report it. The City could then use this for targeted enforcement.

http://westseattleblog.com/2013/08/fi ... -potholes-abandoned-cars/

Posted on: 2013/11/13 14:25
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Thanks Nyrgravey9.

And for the record there's no excuse for a dog owner not picking up their dog poop. I'm happy to see dog owners fined for that. What earned me my "champion" moniker was opposing public shaming by posting photos or videos. I happen to believe it can lead to unnecessary friction between residents.

What might be a good alternative to public shaming is the City implements an app like this. Take a photo with time and location, and report it. The City could then use this for targeted enforcement.

http://westseattleblog.com/2013/08/fi ... -potholes-abandoned-cars/

Posted on: 2013/11/13 14:19
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Seagull, I don't think that's warranted. To be fair, DTJC directed the poster on how to deal with the problem when it arises, which was an appropriate suggestion, no?

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There will always be people like the Champion of Dog Crap here aka dtjcview, who will defend their position, no matter how ridiculous the rest of society deems it. In their perfect world, everyone would just let their dogs crap all over other people's streets without any sort of repercussion.

Posted on: 2013/11/13 12:34
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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There will always be people like the Champion of Dog Crap here aka dtjcview, who will defend their position, no matter how ridiculous the rest of society deems it. In their perfect world, everyone would just let their dogs crap all over other people's streets without any sort of repercussion.

Posted on: 2013/11/13 12:27
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Re: Dogs off leash
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amanda_r wrote:
...

If you see a dog off-leash, you should tell the person that it would be a good idea, for the sake of their own dog, to use a leash. I use to hold back on telling people (didn't want to seem bossy), but after my dog got bit on the neck, and has had numerous close encounters since, I refuse to hold back. And neither should you.
....


You may be better off calling JC animal control or the JC non-emergency number to report off-leash dogs, rather than confronting the owner. It's an emotional topic as you can tell from this forum. There have been some pretty ugly confrontations in the past: slinging poop, etc...

Posted on: 2013/11/13 11:58
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Sadly the off leash debate has been going on for years on this list. Those of us who have been on this list that long are well aware of the long history of these discussions. There was a very active discussion back in 2007/8 before the Hamilton Park renovations which I cannot find cause I think it was within one of the many Hamilton Park threads back then. Likely during the talks about the different plan options for the park.
Here is a more recent one I found:
http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewt ... order=DESC&status=&mode=0


Posted on: 2013/11/13 10:59
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Jerseygirl, here's the point. Those other parks have dog runs and yet people continue to just flaunt the laws and let their dogs off leash all over the park (not all, but enough people). Compromises have been made and money has been spent accommodating dog owners by building dog runs and designating areas for them. Hell, some areas even provide poop bags. What's lacking at this point is enforcement. That's an area that must and will change.

Once the rules, as written, have been followed, then there can be wiggle room to find a compromise. It's a lot longer and more difficult of a process to change the laws, but it's much easier to increase enforcement of existing laws.

Given that, until dog owners can prove collectively that they can follow the rules, police themselves and be considerate of non-dog owners, it's a moot to point to say "give us a designated area".

Posted on: 2013/11/13 10:19
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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As a dog owner in JC - I agree with mRanger. A comprimise needs to be reached in the use of Morris Canal Park - especially allllll the way at the end of the point.

So much work has been put into refurbishing and landscaping of Van Vorst and Hamilton Park, many residents make use of the great ammenties AND those parks do have dog runs - off leash dogs have no place in those parks.


Morris Canal Park is just a peninsula with an amazing view, there are no man-made ammenities like playgrounds, gardens or sitting areas for people to enjoy at the end of the peninsula.

Why not let dogs be dogs and just allow them to run around on grass and play fetch within a designated area? Of course with owners picking up dog waste. (Seriously I don't get how some owners can just LEAVE it there and not clean up after your dog).

Has anyone made a suggestion for Morris Canal Park to be leash free during certain hours (like Central Park?) Or maybe a leash free area like at the end of the point?


Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
mRanger, great post.

What i've seen in previous posts is that people feel the dog park proposal in LSP is too small and too far away.

You just can't please them, dude...

Quote:

mRanger48 wrote:
I see this thread has become award winning since last i visited....my thoughts (from one ranger fan to another):

Regarding leash laws:

Hamilton Park - 100% 24/7 all dogs must be on leash. Way too much going on over there for them not to be.

Van Vorst Park - 100% 24/7 all dogs must be on leash. I know all the hard work and effort that went into refurbishing that park, and the beautiful landscaping and flowers that encompass the inside. An amazing job was done by all there, and in no way should dogs be allowed to traipse through and ruin it all.

Morris Canal Park - I think we need to have some leniency there with regard to off leashing dogs. As Colleen stated, if my dog is offleash all the way out by the point, is it REALLY bothering u that much out there? In fact, I actually was there this week with my dog (on leash) and saw a cop there w/ his canine (off leash) playing out by the point. I asked the cop about leash laws and he said as long as it's not bothering anyone out here, it shouldn't be a problem, just make sure u pick up after ur dog - we want to keep the park clean for everyone to use. What that cop said is probably the most reasonable statement I have heard or read regarding this matter. And also, I've read some people posting about getting an active dog in an urban environment. Well, I'm sorry that wasn't going through my mind when my future to-be-adopted dog was on the "kill list", when i rescued him.

As far as I'm concerned we should only become anal retentive over-actors about dogs being off leash (in an area that affects barely anyone) if we see a refurbishment like this:

Resized Image

As far as not picking up dog crap: That sh*t needs stop everywhere. People like that should not have dogs. In retrospect, I do agree with many points in this thread. However, I do feel it should not be all one-sided as some are trying to make it out to be. The point out in Morris Canal Park needs to be some sort of concession by nyrgravey and the other prosecutors about off leashing dogs EVERYWHERE. I do retract my stance if and when they decided to refurbish the park.


Posted on: 2013/11/13 10:05
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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owlie wrote:
That's right Amanda, don't say anything. We should all sit back and be victimized by these filthy "folks". I find it so amazing how some people get offended by the people who are offended by the dog poo. It says a lot about the people who defend the perps.

Posted on: 2013/11/13 8:47
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Keep your dog on a leash. never know what they might bring home....

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vid ... home-human-foot.komo.html

Posted on: 2013/11/13 3:06
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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That's right Amanda, don't say anything. We should all sit back and be victimized by these filthy "folks". I find it so amazing how some people get offended by the people who are offended by the dog poo. It says a lot about the people who defend the perps.

Posted on: 2013/11/12 22:03
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Re: Dogs off leash
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Amanda this topic has already been discussed in another thread (search for "an open letter").

The best thing you can do is join your local neighborhood association and get involved.

Some of these fools have no idea what changes are being contemplated behind the scenes to curb this behavior. But changes are definitely coming.

Get involved and make your voice heard where it matters. Don't waste your time here.

Posted on: 2013/11/12 20:59
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Re: Dogs off leash
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Posted on: 2013/11/12 20:48
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Re: Dogs off leash
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You make good points. Unfortunately there are strong opinions here that think they are better than having to leash their dogs and will make up any excuse to "justify" not to do that even though it is against the law. Good luck.

Posted on: 2013/11/12 20:45
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Re: Dogs off leash
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This aughta be good, hasn't been decent leash fight around here in at least a couple months....Resized Image

Posted on: 2013/11/12 20:39
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Dogs off leash
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I've noticed a bunch of dogs off-leash recently. I'm not just talking about in the pet-friendly areas of Hamilton Park, but around the neighborhood. I have to say, this is alarming and dangerous on several levels, and I would like to suggest a few things that we, as a community, can do about it.

First, why it's dangerous: Your dog may be friendly and do well off-leash, but my dog may not be so friendly. Having an off-leash dog come up to a dog walking on the leash can provoke that dog. I know this because it has happened to my dog. She is a very good dog but she gets nervous around dogs off-leash. A dog off leash tried to come up to her once, prompting her to growl and bark. Once she growled and barked, the off-leash dog bit her. Over $700 later, and a nasty wound to the neck, she has never quite been the same.
Another reason why off-leash dogs are dangerous is that this is a very busy neighborhood. I just now experienced a dachshund flying across a busy street (off-leash of course) to say "hello" to my dog (my dog is also a dachshund) despite my pleas that my dog is not friendly. This dog completely ignored its human's calls. It could have easily been hit by a car in rush hour traffic. Why subject your beloved pet to that danger? There are tons of car accidents and near misses around here. Our dogs should not be potential victims to that.
Also, a dog off-leash could be scary to kids (or anyone really!). Some kids love animals, but others could be scared. Just leash your dog. If it's such a great dog, it won't mind a leash with plenty of slack. Sometimes, depending on the leash, your dog won't even feel like its on a leash! But you will have the control.

Now, here are some thoughts as to what we can do as a community: Dog owners, please leash your dog. Just do it. It's the law, actually. I know there are no cops who are actively enforcing this but for the reasons above, there should be no need to even bring up that off-leash is illegal. You should leash your dog out of basic responsibility for the well-being of your animal.
If you see a dog off-leash, you should tell the person that it would be a good idea, for the sake of their own dog, to use a leash. I use to hold back on telling people (didn't want to seem bossy), but after my dog got bit on the neck, and has had numerous close encounters since, I refuse to hold back. And neither should you.
Maybe do a little campaigning around the neighborhood. If anyone wants, I am totally willing (especially in the spring when the weather gets nicer) to leaflet the neighborhood reminding people that leash laws are for everyone's safety. It's not preachy, it's kind and humane. We can make a nice little symbol to represent that this is an on-leash community!

So I hope this whole thing wasn't too much like a rant, but I am an all-around pet lover. I have a dog, house rabbit, turtle, and I actively take care of a neighborhood cat. I would hate to see any animal get hurt because of their human's irresponsibility, or our own silence for fear of upsetting someone. I know many of you feel the same. Feel free to offer more suggestions!

Posted on: 2013/11/12 17:20
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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To vigilante, look...the purpose of this thread isn't to shit anybody down. But your comments were never constructive and caused people here to get defensive or even offensive.

No one saying go away. Rather than provide vitriol, provide realistic, actionable solutions. Hell, just like I tell people on my side, I'm going to tell you: get involved with your neighborhood association! Be the voice on the other side. Have a say.

Some good ideas have been formed in this thread once you weave through the bullshit and petty crap (off leash hours, larger fenced dog runs), and we need more.

To mdips, you know I'm a pretty moderate voice here. People are going to add there $0.02 and go on tangents, and I try hard to bring it all back to the core message.

The core message is still, as it stands now that dogs need to be on leash at all times (except in dog runs), owners need to clean up their poop, and that's that.

You gotta filter out the noise and stay on target.


Posted on: 2013/8/28 0:28
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Area_Man wrote:
Quote:

Bksballers wrote:
I agree 100%
Every single morning I walk to the train all I smell is dog piss... it's just disgusting. That coupled with the insane amount of littering in the neighborhood really lowers the quality of life. Sure, it's convenient, but to walk through dog crap/piss and garbage is unacceptable.

Wait, now all the off-leash dogs are pissing on the PATH trains instead of the streets? We all know dogs cant pay fare... so that's at least three broken laws.

THESE OFF LEASH TURNSTILE HOPPING TRAIN PISSING DOGS MUST BE STOPPED


Seriously, aren't we going overboard at this point. The OP was a discussion of off leash dogs at Morris Canal park, a point which was fine as a rational jumping off point for a discussion. But at this stage now I should not be walking off leash at the park(fine), not throwing my dog crap away in a public garbage can and now not even allowing my dog to urinate on a sidewalk? Why would any dog owners take these arguments seriously when the apparent end point of this discussion now seems to be taking a course to; don't allow your dogs outside and near any other JC residents.

If I want to allow my dog off leash people weren't willing to discuss the possibility for off leash hours, instead offered up the idea that I drive outside my city to somewhere else offering off leash hours. So I should have to drive 30 minutes to walk my dog off leash but people aren't willing to go to LSP or Newport Green(which doesn't even allow dogs in the park) when they want a renovated park with a view? Where is the empathy? All I was asking for was the possibility of a few hours set aside for off leash hours. Seriously, you complain that morris canal is being wasted but JC just spent all that money providing a top tier waterfront park that doesn't even allow dogs in it and that's still not good enough? I should drive 30 minutes but you can't take a $2 ferry ride across the canal or a light rail/bike ride to newport?




Posted on: 2013/8/27 23:22
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Vigilante wrote:
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JCbiscuit wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.


stop trying to make this about grave danger. it's about quality of life and you know it. your arguments are as disingenuous as they are tiresome.


If that little white fluff ball is effecting your quality of life then you have some serious hang-ups.


Man, Vigilante, you used to have some say, some power and some great use updating us viewers on this board. But the "last word" need and weak argument on this thread is dissipating the value you had on many community issues you stand up for and make points about. Can you back off on this so we can stop getting sick of you and learn from you when you have something important to contribute on the community boards again? Either that, or get a hobby!


You're right. I am "off the hook" and I apologize to you, Arcy and NyrGravey9. I will stay off this thread. Just remember that we are neighbors and although some people get bent out of shape about things it's best to stay civil. I am always civil in the park and outside the park (except for the a-hole I chased down a few months back after he tailgated me and ran a Stop Sign twice to do so.) Just please, no photos of your neighbors. It reminds me of Pol Pot.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 21:30
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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JCbiscuit wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.


stop trying to make this about grave danger. it's about quality of life and you know it. your arguments are as disingenuous as they are tiresome.


If that little white fluff ball is effecting your quality of life then you have some serious hang-ups.


Man, Vigilante, you used to have some say, some power and some great use updating us viewers on this board. But the "last word" need and weak argument on this thread is dissipating the value you had on many community issues you stand up for and make points about. Can you back off on this so we can stop getting sick of you and learn from you when you have something important to contribute on the community boards again? Either that, or get a hobby!

Posted on: 2013/8/27 18:34
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.


stop trying to make this about grave danger. it's about quality of life and you know it. your arguments are as disingenuous as they are tiresome.


If that little white fluff ball is effecting your quality of life then you have some serious hang-ups.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 18:21
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Vigilante wrote:
I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.


stop trying to make this about grave danger. it's about quality of life and you know it. your arguments are as disingenuous as they are tiresome.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 17:07
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Agreed Vigilante....but it's not the caller's fault.

If, when asked, dog owners just complied and did what they're asked, and didn't berate people who ask them, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place, right?

Look, this whole thing sucks. But it's gotten a little out of control on the part of the dog owners who do this stuff. And responsible dog owners should man up and call people out when they see it.

One offs wouldn't be a big deal, but it's all the time, in all the parks (not by all dog owners, but enough of them).

Enough is enough man. When it settles down and people start following the law, then i for one will ease up.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 17:00
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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Bksballers wrote:
I agree 100%
Every single morning I walk to the train all I smell is dog piss... it's just disgusting. That coupled with the insane amount of littering in the neighborhood really lowers the quality of life. Sure, it's convenient, but to walk through dog crap/piss and garbage is unacceptable.

Wait, now all the off-leash dogs are pissing on the PATH trains instead of the streets? We all know dogs cant pay fare... so that's at least three broken laws.

THESE OFF LEASH TURNSTILE HOPPING TRAIN PISSING DOGS MUST BE STOPPED

Posted on: 2013/8/27 16:45
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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o73o2 wrote:
A suggestion to -- potentially -- solve the problem:

Perhaps, we should start photographing unleashed dogs and their owners and posting those pictures here on the JCList.

Thoughts?


While I wouldn't endorse that, I will say it's a pretty smart idea lol.


I'll start:

Resized Image


Hamilton Park, this morning.


And every time you call the Cops or Animal Control over something like this then the less seriously they will take you. If anything you will just piss them off and they won't respond very quickly when you really need them.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 16:36
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I agree 100%
Every single morning I walk to the train all I smell is dog piss... it's just disgusting. That coupled with the insane amount of littering in the neighborhood really lowers the quality of life. Sure, it's convenient, but to walk through dog crap/piss and garbage is unacceptable.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 16:23
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I'm the one who posts photos on line so I take full responsibility. I also take full responsibility for the fact that several people who I've posted photos of have stopped having their dogs unleashed. I offer people the opportunity to put their dog on a leash. And if they don't, I threaten to call animal control and email the photos to animal control. Because they are bogged down with short staffing and the like, I also post on this board among others. I know some people disagree with this tactic but it has worked in the past. I will continue to call animal control , the police and local officials. The law exists for a reason. The "entitled people " are the ones who think the law doesn't apply to them. I think more enforcement of the laws and a better police prescience is necessary. It would be better for the animal control officers and police to enforce the laws than me. Whatever the breed, the dog has to be on a leash. If they want to have their dog roam free, then they should use to dog run.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 15:34
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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there's even a whole website that sprung up, specifically to shame JC dog owners who do this stuff. And the site was made by a dog owner

I'm not going to link it here, but it's getting pretty popular. There are tons of pictures of dog owners either ignoring poop, letting their dogs off leash or both.

I think you underestimate just how many people are pissed off about these infractions.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 15:29
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
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I don't agree with anyone posting pictures of ANYONE (but I'm not going to stop them either), so I don't know why you're driving that point home with me.

And no, we can't agree on pitbulls. There are no such things as bad dogs (save for mental illness, and injury), there are only bad owners. Period.

We can agree some dogs are more dangerous than others, of course. Thats not what this thread is discussing.

It's simple...

1. Walking your dog, any dog, off leash, is illegal.
2. Not cleaning up after your dog is illegal
3. Residents are sick of both of these things being ignored everywhere and residents are taking action. This thread is raising awareness of it.


Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 15:24

Edited by nyrgravey9 on 2013/8/27 15:41:45
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Re: An open letter to the Dog Owners of DTJC (brace yourselves)
Home away from home
Home away from home


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2007/10/10 23:28
From Leashless Glory.
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I think we can all agree on pit-bulls but posting photos of Maltese dogs and trying to convince people they are in grave danger is a joke. You know it.

Posted on: 2013/8/27 15:15
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