JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes? [Politics & Government]

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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SilveryJessica wrote:
Quote:

RiverRat wrote:
Yes! It is time for JC (and Hoboken) to follow the experiment that has been going on in NYC for the past few years, and make a region wide bike lane system as part of a "complete streets" makeover that improves safety for all users of our streets.

I would also like to see the bike share program that will start next summer in NYC expand to this side of the Hudson eventually.

Having just returned to JC from first the Village and then Park Slope, Brooklyn, in my experience the bike lane experiment in NYC is a miserable failure. I am not anti-bike, and I appreciate those people who want to do what they can for traffic, health and environment and intrepidly bike around town. However, the bike lanes in NYC and especially Brooklyn wreak havoc even more than the pedestrians do. I do not hold all bikers responsible for the actions of some, but in my experience and the experience of a lot of my friends, MANY bicyclists either get complacent or develop some kind of myopic view, and do NOT pay attention to traffic signals, use common sense, and worst of all, do not watch for cars or pedestrians when on side streets. When you create a bike lane, you obviously lose more room on the streets for cars to pass by, and it creates very dangerous bottlenecks on many corners where I have seen horrific close calls created by NOT the drivers but the bikers deciding that making a light was worth risking multiple lives.

I cannot emphasize enough that I am not opposed to bikes in general nor the reasons of those wishing to bike more, and I am not even considering the loss of parking when I weigh in here, even though I own a car. I have been knocked over by bikers twice, seen two of them hit by car doors opening and lost one acquaintance who hit a car--he wasn't hit BY a car, but he hit one because he wasn't paying attention to traffic and he died. Since I was a witness to both car door accidents, I stayed to see if I could help, and in one case, the cyclist had been talking on his phone. !!!! While many folks who ride bicycles are careful and responsible, just like car drivers, MANY are not. When you consider that you can't lose a license to bicycle as you can if you're an automobile offender, there is little incentive for people to adhere to rules. Tons of people ride bikes on the sidewalks in Brooklyn and Manhattan, even though there are now multiple bike lanes and it's against the law. I notice many riders doing so here, and since there are no bike lanes and I don't know the local laws, I have tried to be understanding. Will that change here? I doubt it.

I don't argue that in certain areas with less vehicular traffic a bike lane would be a blessing for the cyclist and not much of an imposition on the driver or pedestrian, but overall, in lower Manhattan and Chelsea and especially in Brooklyn, I have seen a lot of reckless disregard for their surroundings by cyclists and in my opinion, they create more problems than they solve. I don't have a solution. I wish I had one. I think the bike share program is a wonderful idea, but in the last months I lived in NYC, I can't tell you how many hapless riders I have seen who have jeopardized their own safety and that of others because they simply don't know what they are doing.

Anyhow, just my two cents. I wish I could support bike lanes, but given my experience with them, I don't believe I can.

This is complete bunk. Do you really think that things would be better without bike lanes? At least with bike lanes you have designated areas that pedestrians, bikes, and cars can clearly see. Without bike lanes, you have everything that you just mentioned, but a lot worse, because there's no clear guide, and you never know when or where to expect one. People will flaunt the rules no matter what. Nobody is running lights or stop signs or making dangerous turns because they have a bike lane. They would have done that anyway.

Really just a completely ignorant comment. It seems like you just have a problem with bikes in general, and it's got nothing to do with bike lanes.

Posted on: 2013/7/10 17:51

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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PBW wrote:
If cyclists have to follow the rules of the road don't they have to stop for pedestrians (at corners)? Even if they are in a bike lane and regardless if the pedestrian is paying attention? I know if doored the cyclist is not at fault but would they be if they hit a pedestrian?

Sure if you hit someone that's just standing in front of you it's your fault, but there's a big problem with pedestrians walking into bike lanes without looking, and it's hard to stop for someone when they walk out right in front of you.

There are also plenty of peds that will just stand or walk around in bike lanes. There are some neighborhoods in NYC where people use bike lanes as an extension of the sidewalk, and then have the nerve to yell at you when you tell them to get out of the way.

And in general, I don't think any cyclist wants to hit anyone, cyclists are going to try their damn hardest to avoid people. Last thing I want is to clip someone and go flying off my bike.

Posted on: 2013/7/10 17:45

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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If cyclists have to follow the rules of the road don't they have to stop for pedestrians (at corners)? Even if they are in a bike lane and regardless if the pedestrian is paying attention? I know if doored the cyclist is not at fault but would they be if they hit a pedestrian?

Bicyclists SHOULD yield to pedestrians, when practical and possible, and if conditions allow it, or when required (red lights, stop signs, etc). Now, having said that, why should cyclists have to yield, or stop, for pedestrians blissfully walking in a clearly designated bike lane? I am not saying we should mow down pedestrians, but I usually swerve around them and, more often than not, fling a few choice words their way. Too often, they step into them unaware of, or without looking for, incoming bike traffic. It can make for dangerous collisions.

Just like pedestrians shouldn't walk in the middle of a road, they shouldn't walk on a bike lane. Simply put, people need to pay attention to their surroundings.

As for the person claiming there being little incentive for people to follow the rules, I disagree. What more incentive that preserving your own life?? People who dangerously flaunt rules, driving aggressively in congested areas, or crossing through busy traffic intersections when not advisable, are nuts, but are not representative of all cyclists. For most folks, protecting their own lives is important. Not everyone on two wheels is a kamikaze looking to make an impact. Also, the easier fix, and which has had markedly good effect at times, is sensible enforcement of rules. The police doesn't have to act like douches (like when they decided to enforce a speed limit against cyclists riding in Central Park when it was closed to vehicular traffic) but they should enforce the basic rules (sidewalk riding, salmoning, etc.)

Posted on: 2013/7/10 17:23

brewster

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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hero69 wrote:
Bike lane in Hoboken is not useless. Equip bikes with bells and have police tell pedestrians not to stand in bike lane

Mayor Zimmer told me she has given up on that, it seems people are hopeless when it comes to giving anyone courtesy anywhere.

It's amazing how this has been exacerbated by cellphones, and not just by drivers or cyclists. I was behind someone in line at an ATM yesterday and I couldn't understand what was taking her so long....she was texting between prompts! I said "ARE YOU DONE?", and she just glared at me, like I had a problem.

Posted on: 2013/7/10 15:56

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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Bike lane in Hoboken is not useless. Equip bikes with bells and have police tell pedestrians not to stand in bike lane

Posted on: 2013/7/10 14:02

SilveryJessica

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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Quote:

RiverRat wrote:
Yes! It is time for JC (and Hoboken) to follow the experiment that has been going on in NYC for the past few years, and make a region wide bike lane system as part of a "complete streets" makeover that improves safety for all users of our streets.

I would also like to see the bike share program that will start next summer in NYC expand to this side of the Hudson eventually.

Having just returned to JC from first the Village and then Park Slope, Brooklyn, in my experience the bike lane experiment in NYC is a miserable failure. I am not anti-bike, and I appreciate those people who want to do what they can for traffic, health and environment and intrepidly bike around town. However, the bike lanes in NYC and especially Brooklyn wreak havoc even more than the pedestrians do. I do not hold all bikers responsible for the actions of some, but in my experience and the experience of a lot of my friends, MANY bicyclists either get complacent or develop some kind of myopic view, and do NOT pay attention to traffic signals, use common sense, and worst of all, do not watch for cars or pedestrians when on side streets. When you create a bike lane, you obviously lose more room on the streets for cars to pass by, and it creates very dangerous bottlenecks on many corners where I have seen horrific close calls created by NOT the drivers but the bikers deciding that making a light was worth risking multiple lives.

I cannot emphasize enough that I am not opposed to bikes in general nor the reasons of those wishing to bike more, and I am not even considering the loss of parking when I weigh in here, even though I own a car. I have been knocked over by bikers twice, seen two of them hit by car doors opening and lost one acquaintance who hit a car--he wasn't hit BY a car, but he hit one because he wasn't paying attention to traffic and he died. Since I was a witness to both car door accidents, I stayed to see if I could help, and in one case, the cyclist had been talking on his phone. !!!! While many folks who ride bicycles are careful and responsible, just like car drivers, MANY are not. When you consider that you can't lose a license to bicycle as you can if you're an automobile offender, there is little incentive for people to adhere to rules. Tons of people ride bikes on the sidewalks in Brooklyn and Manhattan, even though there are now multiple bike lanes and it's against the law. I notice many riders doing so here, and since there are no bike lanes and I don't know the local laws, I have tried to be understanding. Will that change here? I doubt it.

I don't argue that in certain areas with less vehicular traffic a bike lane would be a blessing for the cyclist and not much of an imposition on the driver or pedestrian, but overall, in lower Manhattan and Chelsea and especially in Brooklyn, I have seen a lot of reckless disregard for their surroundings by cyclists and in my opinion, they create more problems than they solve. I don't have a solution. I wish I had one. I think the bike share program is a wonderful idea, but in the last months I lived in NYC, I can't tell you how many hapless riders I have seen who have jeopardized their own safety and that of others because they simply don't know what they are doing.

Anyhow, just my two cents. I wish I could support bike lanes, but given my experience with them, I don't believe I can.

Posted on: 2013/7/10 13:54

PBW

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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If cyclists have to follow the rules of the road don't they have to stop for pedestrians (at corners)? Even if they are in a bike lane and regardless if the pedestrian is paying attention? I know if doored the cyclist is not at fault but would they be if they hit a pedestrian?

Just like the handful of dog owners that make the group as a whole look bad, I always find it funny when people complain about bikers rights meanwhile they ride on the sidewalk, blow thru stop signs and red lights, ride against traffic, etc......

Oh, and yes I would like to see more bike lanes.

Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Bicyclists are only a hazard to pedestrians if one, or the other, is doing something wrong. I have ZERO sympathy for the hapless pedestrians that get yelled at, bumped, or plain ran over, by cyclists who are following all the rules (within bike lane, not salmoning and paying attention). Too many clueless idiots texting while walking, talking into their cell phones without paying attention, or simply completely unaware of their surroundings. This is especially true of tourists on the Brooklyn Bridge (mentioned below) and harried commuters during rush hour. Regardless, watch where you are going. It's that simple.

To the inconsiderate cyclists that go against traffic, or ride on sidewalks, well, they are equally clueless and deserve to be hassled by cops and despised by pedestrians.

Posted on: 2013/7/10 13:28

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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hero69 wrote:
I think riding on sidewalks should be discouraged (sometimes it is necessary) such as when bike lanes are closed and the only other alternative is the HIGHWAY.

I sometimes ried against traffic but I am cautious. The bike lines are wide enuff for 2-way traffic

Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
If a bike lane is closed, the rider should dismount and walk his bicycle until it is possible to jump back on the bike lane. There really is no excuse to ride on sidewalks. It is dangerous to pedestrians, and oneself. I do wish police would be more vigilant about keeping people and vehicles from blocking bike lanes. The bike lanes along Grove are ridiculously abused by delivery trucks, people running into restaurants to pick up takeout orders, and double parking douches waiting for something/someone.

I often hop onto the sidewalk for roads that are dangerous for bikes, and I think so long as you're courteous and careful and there aren't many people, it's not really an issue. Just bike slower, give people a wide berth, ring your bell to warn someone if you're passing, don't try to pass in a narrow space, and get off and walk it if there are too many people.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 20:13

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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bodhipooh wrote:
Actually, protected lanes have their own issues. And, depending on whose view, or study, you follow, or believe, they could be as dangerous, or more so.

Protected bike lanes can exacerbate one particular dangerous situation: the crossing of intersections and cross streets. When a cyclist approaches a cross street, or intersection, a car turning into the cyclist will not see him until he is at the point of impact, because the cyclist is likely "hidden" by cars.

Additionally, protected bike lanes lull riders into a false sense of security, which leads to riders being less alert. Several studies back this one up: more women, seniors and children take up bike riding when protected bike lanes are present. The problem is that while riders will be "safer" from moving traffic, they are not necessarily safer from either of the following: inattentive drivers (or, passengers) who are parked and may open a door onto the cyclist's path, or from pedestrians who decide to jump onto the bike lane without first making sure a bike is not traveling on said lane. These last two are particularly bad when there is no "road sharing culture" or "bike awareness". I think we can all agree that neither is prevalent here in JC, or even regionally.

I have been "doored" on several occasions in Manhattan, with MANY near misses, and have had a TON of close encounters with pedestrians who are SO oblivious to their surroundings that they have actually walked into my path as I am about to reach them.

I don't have an answer. I do think that protected lanes have some benefits, but I don't think they are the panacea that some wish or advertise.

never really considered that, but now that you mention it, there are some problems I hadn't considered. The turning cars problem and unaware pedestrians would be big problems with protected lanes. Dooring is less of a problem I think, but still an issue. NYC's lanes that have an extra buffer zone, painted lanes, and a turning car "merge" into the bike lane are decent ways around that, but I guess most streets here can't accommodate that.

But without protected lanes, we have people parking in lanes, forcing bikers into the roads, which is dangerous for everyone as well, not to mention the proximity to drivers. Quite a predicament, and now I'm not sure what to think.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 20:09

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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If a bike lane is closed, the rider should dismount and walk his bicycle until it is possible to jump back on the bike lane. There really is no excuse to ride on sidewalks. It is dangerous to pedestrians, and oneself. I do wish police would be more vigilant about keeping people and vehicles from blocking bike lanes. The bike lanes along Grove are ridiculously abused by delivery trucks, people running into restaurants to pick up takeout orders, and double parking douches waiting for something/someone.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 19:43

brewster

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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If you bike the Hoboken waterfront, you realize the bike lane battle is hopeless. Even with a wide pedestrian walk, large numbers insist on walking, or even just standing talking, in the bike lane. If a bike lane can't get respected when there's absolutely no reason not to, painting a stripe down the side of a narrow road is simply political theater. And as pointed out upthread, possibly even more dangerous by lulling people into thinking they're safer than they are.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 19:38

MikeyTBC

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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So you're saying women are akin to seniors and children?

Just kidding. I see chicks on oversized mountain bikes zig-zaging down the Grove St sidewalk like a 5 year old all the time. It's endearing.

Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Actually, protected lanes have their own issues. And, depending on whose view, or study, you follow, or believe, they could be as dangerous, or more so.

Protected bike lanes can exacerbate one particular dangerous situation: the crossing of intersections and cross streets. When a cyclist approaches a cross street, or intersection, a car turning into the cyclist will not see him until he is at the point of impact, because the cyclist is likely "hidden" by cars.

Additionally, protected bike lanes lull riders into a false sense of security, which leads to riders being less alert. Several studies back this one up: more women, seniors and children take up bike riding when protected bike lanes are present. The problem is that while riders will be "safer" from moving traffic, they are not necessarily safer from either of the following: inattentive drivers (or, passengers) who are parked and may open a door onto the cyclist's path, or from pedestrians who decide to jump onto the bike lane without first making sure a bike is not traveling on said lane. These last two are particularly bad when there is no "road sharing culture" or "bike awareness". I think we can all agree that neither is prevalent here in JC, or even regionally.

I have been "doored" on several occasions in Manhattan, with MANY near misses, and have had a TON of close encounters with pedestrians who are SO oblivious to their surroundings that they have actually walked into my path as I am about to reach them.

I don't have an answer. I do think that protected lanes have some benefits, but I don't think they are the panacea that some wish or advertise.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 19:15

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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I think riding on sidewalks should be discouraged (sometimes it is necessary) such as when bike lanes are closed and the only other alternative is the HIGHWAY.

I sometimes ried against traffic but I am cautious. The bike lines are wide enuff for 2-way traffic

Posted on: 2013/7/9 19:04

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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Bicyclists are only a hazard to pedestrians if one, or the other, is doing something wrong. I have ZERO sympathy for the hapless pedestrians that get yelled at, bumped, or plain ran over, by cyclists who are following all the rules (within bike lane, not salmoning and paying attention). Too many clueless idiots texting while walking, talking into their cell phones without paying attention, or simply completely unaware of their surroundings. This is especially true of tourists on the Brooklyn Bridge (mentioned below) and harried commuters during rush hour. Regardless, watch where you are going. It's that simple.

To the inconsiderate cyclists that go against traffic, or ride on sidewalks, well, they are equally clueless and deserve to be hassled by cops and despised by pedestrians.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 18:24

heights

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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hero69 wrote:
I see both sides of the argument. maybe put speed bumps are the answer. i know that when i am bicycling it is hard to slow down for pedestrians and when i am walking i realize that bicyclists can be a hazard

Sounds as if you bike the Brooklyn Bridge a lot.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 14:50

Get on your bikes and ride !

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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I see both sides of the argument. maybe put speed bumps are the answer. i know that when i am bicycling it is hard to slow down for pedestrians and when i am walking i realize that bicyclists can be a hazard

Posted on: 2013/7/9 14:01

heights

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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It would have to be pretty wide and quiet streets to accommodate these protected lanes. I am leery of the lanes placed between the curb and parked vehicles due to pedestrians crossing the streets and not looking both ways like mother taught them. The protected lane on Columbus Ave. on the Upper Westside in Manhattan is a problem for people crossing the street with cyclists whizzing by like a bike messenger in Premium Rush.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 12:50

Get on your bikes and ride !

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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Actually, protected lanes have their own issues. And, depending on whose view, or study, you follow, or believe, they could be as dangerous, or more so.

Protected bike lanes can exacerbate one particular dangerous situation: the crossing of intersections and cross streets. When a cyclist approaches a cross street, or intersection, a car turning into the cyclist will not see him until he is at the point of impact, because the cyclist is likely "hidden" by cars.

Additionally, protected bike lanes lull riders into a false sense of security, which leads to riders being less alert. Several studies back this one up: more women, seniors and children take up bike riding when protected bike lanes are present. The problem is that while riders will be "safer" from moving traffic, they are not necessarily safer from either of the following: inattentive drivers (or, passengers) who are parked and may open a door onto the cyclist's path, or from pedestrians who decide to jump onto the bike lane without first making sure a bike is not traveling on said lane. These last two are particularly bad when there is no "road sharing culture" or "bike awareness". I think we can all agree that neither is prevalent here in JC, or even regionally.

I have been "doored" on several occasions in Manhattan, with MANY near misses, and have had a TON of close encounters with pedestrians who are SO oblivious to their surroundings that they have actually walked into my path as I am about to reach them.

I don't have an answer. I do think that protected lanes have some benefits, but I don't think they are the panacea that some wish or advertise.

Posted on: 2013/7/9 12:28

Re: should Jersey City create and implement on-street bicycle lanes?

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h-2-the yes

Posted on: 2013/7/9 3:26