The amount of Sandy damage to houses already assessed could also be a factor in going forward.

Quote:

Healy asked the county to initiate the reval process. ONce the county gave the city the go-ahead, the Council had to vote on the resolution to approve the contract for the firm conducting the reval. I doubt that Fulop voted to approve that resolution.

The flyer is real and what I take away from it is that Fulop will work to stop the reval for now. I think that the entire process is be tainted, as already mentioned in this thread. Also, you can't look at these mailings as a primary source of information. This one wasn't so clear, and Healy's mailings on the other hand, are pretty much total rubbish.

Quote:

Look, there are 3 factors in RE tax.

Assessment- how much it's worth at the time of the last valuation

Ratio- a multiplier used by the city to correct above for inflation and appreciation over time (typically around .33 now, meaning the assessment is ~1/3 of actual value)

Rate- how much you're taxed per $ of assessment x ratio

So, when they reval, since the value is now "correct" the ratio goes to zero, and the rate is supposed to stay the same. Thus yielding the exact same overall tax yield to the city. Repeat, the rate stays the same, unless a separate tax increase is done at the same time to confuse the masses, in which case all bets are off.

This is, without a doubt, real. It's not like this is a secret Fulop position, go ahead and ask him yourself.

Quote:

I know the flyers you are talking about -- but blame the darkness on my camera phone -- otherwise the text was washed out -- as best as I can tell this is real.

brewster, you are assuming that the rate applied will be decreased since nearly all properties will increase in assessed value (just based on a decade plus of inflation).

About the flyer I don't buy it the picture of the candidate seems to show a darker image that is usually used by the opposition. I am still waiting to hear mayoral candidate Steven Fulop's answer on "his" campaign mailing, and of course his stance on the tax reval. By the way did he vote for it ?

I think many long term owners Downtown, as well as elsewhere in Jersey City, will support Fulop with this new message -- but can he in fact stop the tax revaluation?

Steven Fulop WILL:

Stop the tax revaluation because homeowners can't afford a rise in property taxes

Click picture to enlarge:










Click link below to see details of the flyer:
http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/notme3311/library/

Postponing the reval until after the election benefits Healy either way. Its a win-win for him

Quote:

Barring serious misconduct of the reval, the only way that could happen is if that other 10% was ridiculously over assessed. The net tax to the city is SUPPOSED to be the same after as before, just distributed more equitably. For every dollar more from one taxpayer, another pays a dollar less. If it's not, well, it's not 1987, we the citizens have much better communications and access to info than we did then. Hell will certainly be raised.

Maybe Fulop is saying that as we all know the reval deal was a very fishy deal and should be examined or maybe redone. Remember he brought up concerns back in February 2011 when the contract was awarded to a firm that employed recently retired Jersey City BA (and former Tax Assessor) Brian O'Reilly? Fulop and Lopez voted no and Richardson didn?t bother showing up.

Maybe she didn?t show up because she knows what property tax increases can do to seniors. As shown with her below statement on taxes after the Healy July 2009 22.3 % increase two months after the May 2009 election. Gee taxes were stable 3 years before that increase. Where did I hear that taxes have been stable for 3 years line???

JJ 2009 Quote:

Like I said in my below post #16?I am betting 90% of the 60K properties in JC are going to get hit.



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Jersey City revaluation contract awarded to company that employs former city business administrator (JJ 2/10/2011)



?The council awarded the contract 5-2-0, with council members Steven Fulop and Nidia Lopez voting "no." Councilwoman Viola Richardson was absent.

Fulop raised concerns about O'Reilly's employment with the company, saying he's not convinced by the legal department's opinion that there is no conflict of interest.
"From my viewpoint on the legalities, it's concerning," Fulop said. "But this council is going to do what this council wants to do, unfortunately."

Defending the council's decision, Council President Peter Brennan cited the legal department's opinion that O'Reilly, also formerly the city's tax assessor, had no involvement with the city's reval process during his time with the city.

Besides, Brennan said, Realty Appraisal's bid, which came in far under the next highest of the four bids, means a "savings of $2 million" for taxpayers.

And O'Reilly's employment with the company doesn't hurt, Brennan said. "If anybody knows Jersey City, it's going to be Brian O'Reilly," he said....?

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_revaluation_contra.html


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And lets not forget Jersey City ( aka Healy )asking for a one year delay with the reval results?

Jersey City requesting one-year delay of citywide reval (JJ 2/6/2012)

?In a statement, Mayor Jerramiah Healy said the city could not conduct the reval in the current timeframe because of problems updating its tax maps and because of the number of homeowners who did not allow inspectors in their homes.?


http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_requesting_one-yea.html

.

Here is the flyer -- it seems real to me.

Click link below to see all of it:
http://s1331.photobucket.com/user/notme3311/library/

Can Fulop set aside the reval -- and if so for how long?

Quote:

I can understand how you are feeling. Next time I am at Fulop HQ, I will try to see what I can learn about this. But please, oh please - do vote. There are so many things that need to be fixed. You'd be only helping Camp Healy by abstaining. He's hoping to win due to apathy/low turnout.

Better yet - come to the final debate being held downtown next Thursday and ask Fulop about this.

Could someone read my rambling?s and discuss the tax revaluation? I think I tried something like this a while ago and people just started mocking on me instead of helping to understand the tax reval process and what we may expect. It seems there are people on here who know what?s going on?

I am glad to see one of the candidates finally talking about the tax reval in the campaign. Don?t be disgusted that it is being brought up at all. (Healy should be getting blasted for it) It?s not that fact that a JC tax reval is taking place, it?s the fact that Healy has somehow gotten the results pushed off until after the May 2013 election. Gee a reval firm that has ex-JC BA Brain O?Reilly working for it gets the contract in January 2011 , after just retiring from being the JC BA in August 2010. (he was also the JC Tax Assessor for many years)

Healy said the year extension was needed because the reval firm was having problems with JC?s tax maps/books. Really.. O?Reilly? You would think there wouldn?t be any problems because this is what Brennan said at the contract vote: "If anybody knows Jersey City, it's going to be Brian O'Reilly". ( I guess he didn?t know JC that well after all)

The Realty Appraisal Company http://www.realtyappraisal.net/ is no fly by night firm. Take a look at their long list of clients. Were any extensions needed for any of the many NJ cities and towns they did in the past? Their homepage says ?over 400 revaluations completed?. (on time??) Funny on their home page they also actually have a list of Quick Reference Links?the Jersey City Revaluation is in the list. (hmmm)

** ******
I think 1/3 no increase, 1/3 decrease, 1/3 increase rule (of JC?s 60K properties) is BS. If you read the FAQ on the CityofJC web site http://www.cityofjerseycity.com/tax_assessment.aspx?id=6312 it has this:

How Are The Revaluations Done?

Licensed appraisers review the inspection data. They then analyze all recent property sales in each neighborhood, giving most weight to the sales which occur within one year of October 1st of the year the reval is being conducted. Those sales are used to formulate all of the valuations in that specific neighborhood.

From reading that answer I bet 90% of JC properties will get an increase. And yes it is going to be rough on elderly property owners any tax increase is. Like the 22.3 %increase after Healy?s 2009 election.

JJ 2009: Quote:

Real estate prices all over JC (and outside of JC) have risen sine 1988, peaked in 2005, and currently went down a little. So if they are basing the reval on recent property sales than taxes have got to go up right? The taxes on the properties that were legally renovated and those that were newly built and sold around 2005 the peak may see their taxes go down a bit but how many are there a couple thousand?

Example: Society Hill One has around 600 condos it was finished in the early 90?s. A two bedroom 2 bath was selling for 120K. Now 20 years later that same condo is selling for 320K. (after the bust) So if they are using current sales data yes those 600 condos are going to get an increase right?

Example: A small block around JSquare that has 20 houses on it that have similar floor plans. In 1988 an old 2 family was going for maybe 150K if that. At the peak in 2005 close to 450K. Now they are selling for 350K. Out of those 20 houses 2 were built new (because of a fire) and sold new around 2005 at the peak so they are paying high taxes. A few had legal renovations new kitchens and bathrooms that were inspected by the city so they are also paying higher taxes. A few had illegal renovations so they are paying what the 1988 assessed value was. The rest of the houses did no work but are in perfect condition so they are paying the 1988 assessed value.

Is it logical to assume that this is what will happen on that little block of 20 houses? Because the houses are now selling for 350K the 2 newer houses will see a tax decrease. The few that have legal renovations may either see an increase, decrease, or nothing depending on when the renovations and inspections were done. The houses with the illegal renovations and the houses that had no work done on them will see tax increases because the houses on that block are selling for 350K. I feel that little block represents the majority of JC. (except for DT)

** *******
This is the status the reval firm have listed for JC on their web site:

April 1, 2013

As of the above date, in addition to the progress previously reported, we have/are:


1. Attended various meetings at Jersey City Office of Tax Assessor to facilitate the conversion of all lots and
blocks to conform to the new city tax map.
2. Created data spreadsheets for most condominium units in Jersey City, including units subject to PILOT
agreements.
3. Established a local office at 30 Montgomery Street, Unit 1255.
4. Mailed notification letters to all city taxpayers beginning on June 21, 2011.
5. Completed the training of local field inspectors hired through the JC Economic Development Corporation.
6. Printed approximately ALL inspection forms.
7. Attended various community meetings to describe the revaluation and answer taxpayer questions.
8. Superimposed zoning districts on Jersey City tax maps.
9. Measured and inspected 35,481 (84.03%) residential properties.
10. Measured and inspected 4,485 (80.36%) commercial and improved exempt properties.
11. Completed reconciling new City Tax Map with new MOD-IV Tax List.
12. Taken approximately 40,971 digital photos.
13. Established preliminary land formulas for approximately 95% of the City.

** ********

Jersey City requesting one-year delay of citywide reval (JJ 2/6/2012)

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_requesting_one-yea.html

?In a statement, Mayor Jerramiah Healy said the city could not conduct the reval in the current timeframe because of problems updating its tax maps and because of the number of homeowners who did not allow inspectors in their homes.?

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Jersey City revaluation contract awarded to company that employs former city business administrator (JJ 2/10/2011)

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_revaluation_contra.html

?The council awarded the contract 5-2-0, with council members Steven Fulop and Nidia Lopez voting "no." Councilwoman Viola Richardson was absent.
Fulop raised concerns about O'Reilly's employment with the company, saying he's not convinced by the legal department's opinion that there is no conflict of interest.
"From my viewpoint on the legalities, it's concerning," Fulop said. "But this council is going to do what this council wants to do, unfortunately."

Defending the council's decision, Council President Peter Brennan cited the legal department's opinion that O'Reilly, also formerly the city's tax assessor, had no involvement with the city's reval process during his time with the city.

Besides, Brennan said, Realty Appraisal's bid, which came in far under the next highest of the four bids, means a "savings of $2 million" for taxpayers.

And O'Reilly's employment with the company doesn't hurt, Brennan said. "If anybody knows Jersey City, it's going to be Brian O'Reilly," he said....?

** **
PS - I will throw this on in as a treat?

Jersey City mayor granted sick time payouts to four city employees who weren't retiring (JJ 5/15/211)

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_mayor_granted_sick.html

?Two years ago, Jersey City quietly permitted four top officials to accept payments of up to half their accrued sick leave in what officials say was an attempt to keep the four administrators from retiring amid rumblings that the state was about to curtail sick-time buyouts.

The payments were approved in a June 3, 2009 (***2 weeks after the May 2009 election***) executive order issued by Mayor Jerramiah Healy.?

This is a once in a lifetime chance to fix JC. You may disagree with Fulop on a few issues, but please vote. He needs a strong DT vote, otherwise we all know what would happen. Reval or not, Mayor will raise your taxes anyways and they would not go towards anything useful, but filling the pockets of a few people.

It doesn't matter who the mayor is - JC is long overdue for a re-eval. The real question is why hasn't the city been keeping up with them (and therefore avoided the sticker shock effect). I do think now is as good a time as any to do it since property values have dipped.

With regard to the issue of evaluators using pencil and not giving property owners a copy, PHOTOGRAPH the diagram/notes they wrote for a record. They left us a door tag andwe have an appt for a 5/3 look-see.

I disagree w/ Fulop on a range of issues but I am still enthusiastically supporting him in the up coming elections.

Not voting is a vote for Healy

"That's BS if it's done properly" - Do you trust Healy to do anything properly? Especially something as complicated and involved as a citywide property revaluation.

If the reval killed downtown (which is lost for Healy anyway) but helped the rest of the city, would the results be made public before or after the election?

I just fished the damn thing out of the recycling bin. It looks legit unfortunately. The cover of it says, "The memories that turn a house into a home make the thought of rising property taxes unbearable." The photos in the brochure show homes that look like those you find in the Heights. Hmmmm.

"As Mayor, I'll fight to stop the tax revaluation that will raise your property taxes, and I'll work to improve our public schools. But on May 14th, I need your help." Also, under the heading "Because we deserve a better city, Steven Fulop will..." and one of the bullet points says "Stop the tax revaluation because homeowners can't afford a rise in property taxes."

I take issue with the built-in premise in this mailing that everyone's taxes will only go up as a result of the reval. That's BS if it's done properly and amounts to nothing more than fear mongering. Steve, if you are reading this, can you explain? You are on the verge of losing my vote.

Quote:

I got the brochure in my mailbox yesterday and promptly threw it away. From my few-seconds glance, it seemed to engage in fear mongering about people's taxes shooting up so high, they couldn't afford their homes anymore. I was so disgusted, I promptly threw it away. I'm disgusted enough that I'm considering NOT voting at all in the election when before I was solidly for Fulop.

The distortion in property taxes simply CANNOT continue. Why should people living in older homes - many of them million-dollar brownstones - be subsidized to the tune of thousands of dollars a year?

There is, of course, the possibility that the mailing is a fake and a dirty trick targeting Fulop's base downtown. But if that's the case, using the subject of a reval seems almost too sophisticated for Team Healy. Plus, I didn't notice any spelling or grammar errors, which one would expect from Healy's people....

Quote:

I got the mailer yesterday as well. Frankly, it kind of surprised me. I was just telling someone last night, it is the first really significant thing I disagree with Steve about.

I'm still supporting him, however.

I am going to get hosed on one of my properties because it is under assessed.

The building I live in is over-assessed because I renovated at a time when property values were sky-rocketing and the tax assessors office was very aggressive.

I might come out a head (slightly) from the reval.

Has anyone corroborated this "Fulop position" other than a one time poster's assertion? It's not on his platform page.

I have a hard time believing Steve would be naive enough to think the reval can, or should be stopped. The main problem with this reval is it's 15 years late. That allowed nonsense like brownstones worth $1.16m paying only $12k. tax record I have a place just appraised at $300k paying $10k. Bring on the reval, and beware the people squealing the loudest, they've been picking your pocket.

Why shouldn't we have the reveal? If peoples' homes are currently being undervalued for tax purposes then I would think most Jersey City residents would want to correct that problem so that they are paying their "fair share". Unless of course the same people only want OTHER people to pay their "fair share" of taxes, not themselves.

Once the county accepts the city request for a reval, nothing can stop it. The reval also effects the county budget. In the early 1990s, one of the municipalities in Essex County sued because Newark ratables were lower. That municipality said they were paying more county taxes. Secaucus is the only municipality that is paying the full tax rate in Hudson County, our ratable base is artifically low partially due to abatements and not a current revaluation. They would probably sue if we do not go through with it, although I do understand the concerns.

I also don't see how we can not have a reval. Taxes are out of whack. For instance, my neighbor has a house similar in age & style to mine. My house is 130 years old, hers about 100 years old. About 5 years ago she had about $250k in renovations done which also included adding a couple of rooms. The value of her home is now substantially more than mine yet she pays a little less in taxes. We could argue our personnal views forever. But here is the problem I had with the way this reval was started.

The company that won the contract came in about 3 million dollars less than the other bidders. You would expect everyone's bid to be in the same ballpark but this wasn't even in the same state. No small 'hmmmm' factor in place here when one knows that Healy's former BA, Brian O'Reilly, just so happened to be doing some work for this company after he retired from the City.


Now, the people coming into your home were supposed to go floor to floor, writing & diagraming exactly what they saw. This information would then be given to the tax assessor for further evaluation. This is also a great way to find all those 3rd & 4th apartments that go unclaimed causing an unfair balance in taxes. Those who don't pay their fair share put a burden on those of us who want to do the right thing. I know the person who came to my house only looked at my first floor & said he didn't have to look any further cause the sceond floor was the same. WHOA there, it's not. He was a little annoyed that I made him go to the attic, then the second floor which is nothing like the first, then the basement. My neighbors told me he didn't go through their whole house & I had heard this from others.


Another thing that bothered me is that the people who came to your home wrote everything in pencil. What is that about? Write what you're seeing in ink so nothing can be changed. And why can't the owner get a carbon copy in case there is a discrepancy?

I think, unfortunately, that we should start this whole process over so that it is done right.

Just more crap from the Healy administration.

People will lose their homes. Contract was given to a Healy friend (who somehow got a waiver -- shocker). If taxes double even in one neighborhood then property values will go down and will have a ripple effect throughout the city.

Not good.

Interesting but I don?t think Fulop can stop it. Healy requested it and like a coward pushed off the results for one year which is a little after the May 2013 election. The below poster didn?t mention it but I think there are 15,000 tax abated properties which will not be affected. Maybe they are in the 20K mentioned below that will ?see no increase? ???

This keeps getting posted in the battles over on nj.com comments section?


Quote:


** **


(too funny the city (aka Coward Healy) did ask for the 1 year extension in Febuary 2012, we are probably going to get hit with the increase on May 15th no matter who wins)

Jersey City requesting one-year delay of citywide reval

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal
on February 06, 2012 at 5:32 PM,
updated February 13, 2012 at 11:41 AM



About six months after property inspectors started going door-to-door in Jersey City for the first citywide revaluation since 1988, the city is hoping to put the brakes on the reval, citing problems with the city's tax maps and a "higher than anticipated" number of residents refusing to allow inspectors into their homes.

The city today formally requested that the Hudson County Board of Taxation allow a one-year extension for the city to conduct the reval, which was expected to be completed by the end of September, with new assessments effective for 2013.

Full nj.com piece?

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... y_requesting_one-yea.html

I can't see how he would be able to stop it, or why it is even a good idea to try. The fact of the matter is that cities need to go through revals every so often. I say this knowing my taxes are likely to go up.

It is one of the things I disagree with him on.

I just got a Fulop campaign flyer that quotes Fulop saying, "...I'll fight to stop the tax revaluation..." The second page of the flyer has a bulleted list of things Fulop will do as mayor. The first is to actually stop, not just fight, the tax revaluation. Does the Mayor have that power?

What would the procedure be for setting aside the reval? I think the reval is a fair idea and one that a lot of new condo owners paying full freight might welcome. For some of us, our property taxes might actually go down.

I haven't seen every debate but was the potential to rollback the reval ever discussed?

Thanks,
Rachel