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Re: HUGE GAS PIPELINE COMING - through Jersey City
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kellyh wrote:
And what makes you such an expert?

I'm not an expert, and I have no more information than anyone else. I've stated the facts as I know them, and it's all from public sources.

If you want to know about risk evaluation, Dan Gardner's book The Science of Fear is a decent place to start: http://www.amazon.com/Science-Fear-Sh ... ves-Greater/dp/0525950621

A Psychology Today article also summarized some recent findings on the topic. Several items mentioned in the article likely apply here. http://www.psychologytoday.com/articl ... ays-we-get-the-odds-wrong

Posted on: 2013/2/21 1:08
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I appreciate your stance and the facts you presented. I however, would like to mitigate any risk to myself or my loved ones by keeping away as far as possible from any gas pipeline. If by any chance or likelihood there is a leak or explosion, i'd like to know i did everything i could to prevent it from coming through JC.


Posted on: 2013/2/21 0:22
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Dolomiti wrote:
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tommyc_37 wrote:
Who is this Dolomiti character and why is he/she supporting the pipeline?

Oh, for cryin' out loud.

I've lived in JC for over 10 years, I'm a homeowner. Heaven forbid I disagree with people on this topic... or point out that most people are terrible at evaluating risk.


And what makes you such an expert?

Posted on: 2013/2/21 0:00
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tommyc_37 wrote:
Who is this Dolomiti character and why is he/she supporting the pipeline?

Oh, for cryin' out loud.

I've lived in JC for over 10 years, I'm a homeowner. Heaven forbid I disagree with people on this topic... or point out that most people are terrible at evaluating risk.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 22:10
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Who is this Dolomiti character and why is he/she supporting the pipeline?

Posted on: 2013/2/20 21:44
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jcdd wrote:
Dolomiti -this pipeline is being built within 100 feet of an elementary school and a high school. Also my house. I have a baby. Would you like to be living within 100 feet of 30 inch highly pressurized gas pipeline?

Yes. I am categorically stating that I am not any more concerned about a gas transmission pipeline than I am any other residential gas pipeline.

I do not believe that you, or your child, or the students of the school, or myself or anyone else is facing a significantly elevated risk because of this pipeline.


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Do you think that this would be acceptable if it was being built through a densly populated Summit, NJ community?

Gas pipelines already run through many densely populated communities on their way to the Linden, NJ storage facility. Big cities like Boston, NYC, Philly and DC all need transmission lines.

Or, in California, transmission pipelines run through a variety of densely populated and affluent cities like San Francisco, San Jose, Santa Cruz, Monterey and Berkeley. (see http://www.pge.com/myhome/edusafety/s ... as/transmissionpipelines/) And those lines run right through dozens of residential neighborhoods.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 21:43
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thor800 wrote:
The fact that residential gas lines can produce this kind of resuilt shows the fallacy of your statement....

Actually, the size and harm caused by incidents doesn't vary much based on the size of the pipeline. There are numerous transmission line incidents which result in no fires, or cause minimal harm; and numerous residential lines that someone broke with a backhoe that result in big explosions.

Carbon monoxide poisoning kills around 500 people per year. In contrast, an average of 2 people per year die in gas pipeline explosions. And 5,700 Americans die from food poisoning every year.

I'm 2,850 times more likely to be killed by eating in a neighborhood restaurant than I am to be blown up in a gas explosion. So which of these two should concern me?

And what do you plan to do, rip out every residential gas line in JC?

What about the gas lines that already run through Woodbridge and Carteret and Sayreville, to the massive storage facility in Linden?

The point is that we've already decided as a society that natural gas lines are an acceptable risk. While the installation and placement should get input from affected citizens, it's also important to realize that much of the objection is good ol' NIMBYism.


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Congress does not have oversight of the FERC...

Congress passed the laws which determine how FERC operates and who has oversight. So like I said: If Congress wants oversight, all they have to do is change the law.


What the hell PR firm do you work for?

Your averages are meaningless. Who is more likely to die in a pipeline accident, someone twenty miles away from one, or someone living on top of one?

Posted on: 2013/2/20 21:42
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Dolomiti wrote:
Carbon monoxide poisoning kills around 500 people per year. In contrast, an average of 2 people per year die in gas pipeline explosions. And 5,700 Americans die from food poisoning every year.

I'm 2,850 times more likely to be killed by eating in a neighborhood restaurant than I am to be blown up in a gas explosion. So which of these two should concern me?


The fatality rate from nuclear weapons is even lower--does that make them safe?

A catastrophic gas transmission line failure may be a low-probability event, but the tolerance for mishap is also particularly low in this case.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 21:17
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thor800 wrote:
The fact that residential gas lines can produce this kind of resuilt shows the fallacy of your statement....

Actually, the size and harm caused by incidents doesn't vary much based on the size of the pipeline. There are numerous transmission line incidents which result in no fires, or cause minimal harm; and numerous residential lines that someone broke with a backhoe that result in big explosions.

Carbon monoxide poisoning kills around 500 people per year. In contrast, an average of 2 people per year die in gas pipeline explosions. And 5,700 Americans die from food poisoning every year.

I'm 2,850 times more likely to be killed by eating in a neighborhood restaurant than I am to be blown up in a gas explosion. So which of these two should concern me?

And what do you plan to do, rip out every residential gas line in JC?

What about the gas lines that already run through Woodbridge and Carteret and Sayreville, to the massive storage facility in Linden?

The point is that we've already decided as a society that natural gas lines are an acceptable risk. While the installation and placement should get input from affected citizens, it's also important to realize that much of the objection is good ol' NIMBYism.


Quote:
Congress does not have oversight of the FERC...

Congress passed the laws which determine how FERC operates and who has oversight. So like I said: If Congress wants oversight, all they have to do is change the law.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 20:59
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Even if the pipeline itself is safe (and that I doubt), emergency services will put protecting the pipeline ahead of protecting your property. Your house will burn before the pipeline, and firefighters make that kind of choice every day.

...and I bet we end up paying most of the bill for protecting the pipeline.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 20:22
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It is truly infuriating that the pipeline is marching forward. I can't even comprehend how the public really had/has no say in this. It's really mind boggling.

That's a scary article from the Village Voice. Perhaps this quote is most telling: "If politicians aren't prepared to make an issue out of the pipeline, it's likely because their constituents don't even know about it".

How true that is. I bet if you asked the 250,000 JC residents if they know about the pipeline, less than 10% would know ANYTHING about it.

Sickening, really. In a way I hope there is an explosion, nobody is hurt, so that everybody can learn their lesson that a dangerous pipeline does not belong in *the densest part of the United States*. This ain't West Virginia.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 19:43
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Posted on: 2013/2/20 18:41
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Also the light rail and PATH trains

Posted on: 2013/2/20 17:57
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if there's an explosion, more than likely it will take down I78 extension.... did they actually consider the potential risks to the drivers and people who depend on driving that road everyday??? Who was asleep at the wheel when this was approved????

Posted on: 2013/2/20 17:30
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The Spectra pipeline doesn't result in a significantly higher risk.


Yeah? Tell that to the owner and potential tenants of this building:

http://www.castironloftsjerseycity.com/

This is the Spectra route:

http://nogaspipeline.org/the-pipeline


Why does that map only show schools and playgrounds? Contrary to some parents' opinions around here, kids aren't the only things in town.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 17:24
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Dolomiti -this pipeline is being built within 100 feet of an elementary school and a high school. Also my house. I have a baby. Would you like to be living within 100 feet of 30 inch highly pressurized gas pipeline? We are the potential collateral damage, which is apparently acceptable in the name of corporate profits. Do you think that this would be acceptable if it was being built through a densly populated Summit, NJ community?

I have said it before and will say it again - shame on all individuals who are employed by Spectra, profit from this pipeline or support this pipeline. Shame on you. Your actions will never be justified and you are the epitome of selfishness.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 17:00
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Actually to most of us, the route through Staten Island and the Hudson River is perfectly acceptable.

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:

The problem with your saying this is that to you, ANY spot is an unacceptable location. If it's near a building or a factory or a highway (like it is now) or a park or an abandoned lot, it doesn't matter. Kind of blunts the effectiveness of that rhetorical tactic. ;)

Posted on: 2013/2/20 16:38
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The fact that residential gas lines can produce this kind of resuilt shows the fallacy of your statement. 2" diameter low pressure gas lines vs. 30" diameter high pressure pipeline. How can they have the same risk ?

Congress does not have oversight of the FERC - they are an agency in the Executive Branch charged with regulating interstate energy markets. I believe the president appoints directors / commissioners, but is not actively involved in day to day decisions.

The fact that Spectra Energy refuses to reconsider the path of the pipeline shows their arrogance and disregard for the city and its residents.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 16:32
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The Spectra pipeline doesn't result in a significantly higher risk.


Yeah? Tell that to the owner and potential tenants of this building:

http://www.castironloftsjerseycity.com/

This is the Spectra route:

http://nogaspipeline.org/the-pipeline

Posted on: 2013/2/20 15:26
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Dolomiti wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
....news reports are just coming in about a huge gas blast in Kansas City, MO, in a high end retail complex.

As I always have to note:
The natural gas line in that unfortunate explosion was a normal residential line -- the type that is already installed all over Hudson County.
The Spectra pipeline doesn't result in a significantly higher risk.

Then perhaps the focus is on the wrong pipeline, we should concentrate on removing residential gas lines instead.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 15:12
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thor800 wrote:
who is watching the watcher ?

The Federal Courts.

If Congress does want oversight, they can always rewrite the laws.


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Great spot for the pipeline - right next to a park.

The problem with your saying this is that to you, ANY spot is an unacceptable location. If it's near a building or a factory or a highway (like it is now) or a park or an abandoned lot, it doesn't matter. Kind of blunts the effectiveness of that rhetorical tactic. ;)

Posted on: 2013/2/20 14:56
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bodhipooh wrote:
....news reports are just coming in about a huge gas blast in Kansas City, MO, in a high end retail complex.

As I always have to note:

The natural gas line in that unfortunate explosion was a normal residential line -- the type that is already installed all over Hudson County.

The Spectra pipeline doesn't result in a significantly higher risk.

Posted on: 2013/2/20 14:52
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Well, not to (in)flame the current mood and opposition against the gas pipeline, but news reports are just coming in about a huge gas blast in Kansas City, MO, in a high end retail complex. Apparently, a car hit a gas pipeline, which led to a serious, large explosion, followed by a secondary explosion. A restaurant was completely destroyed and there are reports of multiple injuries. Nearby residents are being evacuated.

NBC News link

Posted on: 2013/2/20 2:12
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It is really disgusting how JC is letting Spectra get away with those pipeline dig street detours. The one for Burma Road is the worst. The road way on Thomas McGovern Drive is now almost impassable. It has been like that for weeks. There are deep 2 foot craters right across the road at one point . A midsize car has problems going over..err I mean IN them. Forget about small cars they will get gobbled up.

Hey Healy tell Spectra that if they want to dig on our streets then the detour streets need to be paved by them. If you forgot you are the mayor of Jersey City not Spectra.

Side question didn?t the city say the car pound on Phillips was going to be sold for millions. And that the money would be used on the new DWP complex that is currently being built over on Linden? Funny it now looks like the pipeline is going right down the middle of the car pound property. That is where they are digging. I wonder how much the peoperty will be worth now?( it comes with it's own gas line) It also now makes sense that the JCIA had a large car auction last month. I guess it was to clear the pound for the pipe. Aren?t we accommodating.

Posted on: 2013/2/13 14:50
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It's convenient to defer to the FERC's judgement in this case as they have absolute authority in the matter.

Unfortunately who is watching the watcher ? The FERC does not have to answer to Congress or the President and is subject to Federal court rulings only.

I believe this case by Sane Energy Project was strictly against the Hudson River Park Trust (the area where the pipeline will make landfall in at the Gansevoort Peninsula) and an easement granted to Spectra for 30 years (sound familiar JCRA ?) of non-park use.

Great spot for the pipeline - right next to a park.

Posted on: 2013/2/4 23:13
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.
Bid to block Spectra gas pipeline through Hudson County denied by judge

By Bloomberg News
on February 04, 2013 at 1:52 PM,
updated February 04, 2013 at 2:00 PM



http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/ ... s_pipel.html#incart_river

Posted on: 2013/2/4 21:06
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okay, so Spectra is going to build this. What gives Spectra and FERC the right to ram this down our throats? Spectra is nothing but a faceless corporation that only has profits in mind, and FERC is nothing but a rubber-stamping Federal apparatus. Screw the corps and the Feds. what we need is some old 60's style militancy to assert our rights to prevent this from happening.

Posted on: 2013/2/2 3:54
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Re: HUGE GAS PIPELINE COMING - through Jersey City
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Its good that the Village Voice actually made an effort to raise some valid points about the pipeline. It seems like New Yorkers are making a bigger deal about this than Jersey City - and there's about 15x more pipeline.

This is a really serious issue that has the potential to destroy property values and send JC back to the industrial ages of anthracite coal and railroad barrons.

Tell everyone you know and support NoGasPipeline.org ! KNowledge is power !

Posted on: 2013/2/2 1:42
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How come the citizens of JC have to be inconvenienced by the digging of the freaking pipeline? Like I said they are over on Burma Road and have a detour that takes you over some of the worst roads in JC. There are 6 inch to 1 foot pot holes and chucks of missing black top along the detour. To go with the huge puddles?err I mean lakes of water and ice.

Hey Healy why don?t you grow a pair and at least force them to only dig after morning rush hour and end before evening rush hour. Along with demanding full street repaving if they so much as touch a piece of JC black top or dig along side of it.

Does anyone know if Chief Comey?s ?err I mean Chief Comey?s wife?s security firm Direct Response if it is still in business is supplying any off duty cops to Spectra? Just curious at least someone from JC..err at least someone is benefitting.

One more thing..hey JC old-timers with the digging over on Burma Rd Spectra put up tons of colorful circus like flag banners. To warn of overhead wires. Brings back memories of the OLM feasts down at Roosevelt Stadium. Or better yet the huge Difeo Auto Stadium sales down there I think they actually had circus tents. . Or maybe I just saw them at the real circus..hmmm getting old.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 22:20
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West Villager, is kind of late to the party! (excerpt)

"It makes me very uneasy," King says. "I can't feel safe and comfortable in my home again. There's an established blast zone for when something goes wrong with this kind of technology, and I live inside it."

http://www.villagevoice.com/2013-01-2 ... /Spectra-Energy-Pipeline/

Posted on: 2013/1/26 17:40
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