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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

So given your tortured logic, both you and CC think all slim, tall Giant fans of an "unspecified ethnic group" are vicious thugs?


Er, no. Not our logic, YOUR logic. I think you need to explain why if the JJ includes race in the description that "creates a stereotype" but including other details do not.

..........

If you don't think that, what makes you presume other people will think it?


Perhaps because the police and JJ are looking for witnesses, and not create stereotypes. How does the JJ statement create stereotypes? Your logic is twisted... Nope, actually absurd.

From JJ post:
"slim build and wearing a red shirt, blue jeans and a dark colored hat, reports said. The second man being sought was wearing a NY Giants T-shirt, blue jeans and white sneakers, reports said"

Posted on: 2010/9/8 1:01
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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the article above said the suspect's girlfriend "has been arrested" on charges she helped him flee.

the bar isn't to blame for a girl being touched or the attack.

but if they helped him flee, they should be charged as well.

the guy on the phone was definitely on the side of vietnamese thug rather than the kid on life support.

but did they help him flee the country?

Posted on: 2010/9/7 23:15
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Maybe mommy and daddy should have taught him not to grab at a lady (at anyone in general). Both these fools should be removed from society. And your gonna blame the bar? Maybe if people took responsibility for their own actions... this world wouldn't see so unfair to the rest of us that do. Criminals thrive on societies "understanding"...

Posted on: 2010/9/7 18:09
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:

So given your tortured logic, both you and CC think all slim, tall Giant fans of an "unspecified ethnic group" are vicious thugs?


Er, no. Not our logic, YOUR logic. I think you need to explain why if the JJ includes race in the description that "creates a stereotype" but including other details do not.

We know the guy that tried to take over the Discovery Channel building a few days ago was Asian and the guy that shot 32 people at Virginia Tech was Asian. So do we think all Asian people are more likely to go crazy like that? Personally, I don't and don't think other people do. However, YOU, dtjcview, do think that other people will draw those kind of inferences from knowing details of ethnicity of people who commit crimes. I don't know why you would think that unless you, yourself believe that people of a certain ethnicity are more likely to commit crimes.

If you don't think that, what makes you presume other people will think it?

Posted on: 2010/9/7 13:03
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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i called Grand Banks and they said the guys were attacked because some girl "got touched" and that "the truth" would come out in a few days. well, that was a few days ago. the guy on the phone was very defensive about the whole thing and was on the verge of justifying the attack.

so, it felt like the bar was protecting the vietnamese scumbag attackers and letting them flee the country.

this bar has to answer for their complicity in letting this happen.

anyway... how is the guy inthe hospital doing?

Posted on: 2010/9/7 2:32
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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sinik wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
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sinik wrote:
I think Crazy_chester was using reductio ad absurdum to make his point which went over dtjcview's head.


Nope. It didn't go over my head. It was just badly worded by CC. It implied a number of things that neither I nor the JJ stated. I get RAD.


No I don't think you do. Of course he is implying things you didn't explicitly state, that's kind of the point of RAD. The JJ has nothing to do with it. It's about what YOU think stating the race of the perps implies and using the same logic (your logic) to draw a similar inference form what they did actually say.


I don't think it's a stretch to say that the people that did this (kicking a guy on the ground until he is in critical condition) were "vicious thugs". If you don't think they were, then you really don't get it.


So given your tortured logic, both you and CC think all slim, tall Giant fans of an "unspecified ethnic group" are vicious thugs?

Posted on: 2010/9/7 2:16
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Pay some bikie gang dudes to pay them a visit for a case of beer

Posted on: 2010/9/7 0:13
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

sinik wrote:
I think Crazy_chester was using reductio ad absurdum to make his point which went over dtjcview's head.


Nope. It didn't go over my head. It was just badly worded by CC. It implied a number of things that neither I nor the JJ stated. I get RAD.


No I don't think you do. Of course he is implying things you didn't explicitly state, that's kind of the point of RAD. The JJ has nothing to do with it. It's about what YOU think stating the race of the perps implies and using the same logic (your logic) to draw a similar inference form what they did actually say.


I don't think it's a stretch to say that the people that did this (kicking a guy on the ground until he is in critical condition) were "vicious thugs". If you don't think they were, then you really don't get it.

Posted on: 2010/9/6 15:40
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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The concept of personal responsibility is no longer a part of western civilization.

Posted on: 2010/9/6 1:58
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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sinik wrote:
I think Crazy_chester was using reductio ad absurdum to make his point which went over dtjcview's head.


Nope. It didn't go over my head. It was just badly worded by CC. It implied a number of things that neither I nor the JJ stated. CC was the only person that used the phrase "vicious thugs". I get RAD. Sometimes inferring one thing from another comes across as simple mud-slinging, and needs a clear response.

Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
I do like
how the bar is not responsible - alcohol fuelled fight: Bar happy to take their money but not responsible once they are turf'd on the sidewalk !

I would have thought part of the process of issuing liquor licences factored in whether there was adequate external policing around closing time. Would you hold the bar also responsible for drunk driving and any offense off-premises? I think you have a point. Not sure how to enforce this kind of accountability though.

Posted on: 2010/9/6 0:30
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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any CCTV in that location or direction of travel that the hero's went (kicking a guy in the face when they are down)

I do like how the bar is not responsible - alcohol fuelled fight: Bar happy to take their money but not responsible once they are turf'd on the sidewalk !

Posted on: 2010/9/5 11:38
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I think Crazy_chester was using reductio ad absurdum to make his point which went over dtjcview's head.

Maybe they also shouldn't put the gender of suspects in descriptions because that is clearly stereotyping males.

The description of the second attacker is particularly pathetic. Apparently he was between 22 and 23 but whoever reported that was not able to say anything about the second man's height or build or the kids at the JJ forgot to mention it.

Posted on: 2010/9/5 6:24
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
I think neither the police nor the JJ need to publish race/ethnicity when they are looking for witnesses to this kind of crime. They're more interested in hearing from people on the spot, at or near the crime scene, at the time. The info in the story is more than enough to jog people's memories.

For any crime the police will always withhold facts. If you're a potential witness, give them a call.

If they're doing an AMW-style manhunt then they'll publish more details, including race, photos/drawing of suspects, etc.

Putting race/ethnicity into this story does nothing but create stereotypes, and while Joe public might be interested in the info, it really serves no purpose other than creating tensions in the community.


Oh, shut up. They shouldn't bother printing any type of suspect description at all if this is the case. If you were correct, then all slim, tall Giant fans are vicious thugs, and we all know that this is mostly untrue.


I never claimed all slim, tall Giants fans are vicious thugs. What else do you want to see to validate your own prejudices? If there was a person dressed like the JJ description, at that bar, at that time, then the police would be interested. How is that untrue?

If you were not at, nor near the bar at the time of the incident, nor have any inside knowledge - the police probably don't care what you think. Look up "deduction" and "inference" in the dictionary, because clearly you don't get it. Shut up yourself :)

Posted on: 2010/9/4 3:06
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
I think neither the police nor the JJ need to publish race/ethnicity when they are looking for witnesses to this kind of crime. They're more interested in hearing from people on the spot, at or near the crime scene, at the time. The info in the story is more than enough to jog people's memories.

For any crime the police will always withhold facts. If you're a potential witness, give them a call.

If they're doing an AMW-style manhunt then they'll publish more details, including race, photos/drawing of suspects, etc.

Putting race/ethnicity into this story does nothing but create stereotypes, and while Joe public might be interested in the info, it really serves no purpose other than creating tensions in the community.


Oh, shut up. They shouldn't bother printing any type of suspect description at all if this is the case. If you were correct, then all slim, tall Giant fans are vicious thugs, and we all know that this is mostly untrue.

Posted on: 2010/9/4 1:08
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I think neither the police nor the JJ need to publish race/ethnicity when they are looking for witnesses to this kind of crime. They're more interested in hearing from people on the spot, at or near the crime scene, at the time. The info in the story is more than enough to jog people's memories.

For any crime the police will always withhold facts. If you're a potential witness, give them a call.

If they're doing an AMW-style manhunt then they'll publish more details, including race, photos/drawing of suspects, etc.

Putting race/ethnicity into this story does nothing but create stereotypes, and while Joe public might be interested in the info, it really serves no purpose other than creating tensions in the community.

Posted on: 2010/9/4 0:48
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Posted on: 2010/9/3 16:49
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Stay in Warren in Lebanon, people don't kick in each other's faces here.

Posted on: 2010/9/3 15:00
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Nothing good happens after midnight. Need better descriptions too, what is the big deal saying the perp is white, black, blasian, asian, caucasian, or on vacation.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 14:59
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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If the suspect is described as 5'10" there's a chance he's not filipino.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 14:15
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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The stupidist things people have done they have probably done while drunk.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 5:03
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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well, yeah. By 33.33%...

Posted on: 2010/9/2 3:19
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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eggs, if they said it was a white guy, asian guy or a black guy..would that really narrow it down for you?

Posted on: 2010/9/2 3:08
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Why don't they ever mention the race, or percieved race, of suspects?

Mentioning they are 5' whatever in a Giants Jersey is useless. It's like saying "The victim was mugged by a mugger", or "the store was robbed by a robber". Why bother mentioning the height and apparell at all? According to that article, I'd guess 35% of JC residents fit that description on a Sunday afternoon.

Real hard hitting journalism there...

Posted on: 2010/9/2 2:51
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I think I saw one of the suspects at a Giants game.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 2:39
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Quote:

alanwright wrote:

In any case, it's conceivable that race-relations entered the minds of the attackers.


It's highly conceivable that you're just making shit up for no good reason.

Anyway.. this is why I never go to places that need bouncers in the first place. Take your collared shirts elsewhere, bros.

Posted on: 2010/9/2 2:10
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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well looks like we're not gonna be welcome to have truce's b-day party there...

Posted on: 2010/9/1 21:20
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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The second man being sought was wearing a NY Giants T-shirt, blue jeans and white sneakers, reports said.


sound like a off duty/undercover cop.

Posted on: 2010/9/1 21:19
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I don't know anything about what went inside the bar.

If by "disrespectful" you mean that other guys girlfriends were being hit on... well, that doesn't justify an attack anyway. Women are not possessions.

If women were being touched against their will, that is a different story. If the women were being abused or attacked, well that is a different story.

But, it doesn't justify cold-cocking three dudes. That's why bouncers are hired by the bar.

In any case, it's conceivable that race-relations entered the minds of the attackers.

Posted on: 2010/9/1 21:13
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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alanwright wrote:

I've heard that the fights "started" when three Asian guys sucker-punched some white guys for hitting on "their" girls. (Asian guys are apparently angered about this problem).



obviously it's about race and not just getting beat for being disrespectful?

Would you also make this statement? ->

I've heard that the fights "started" when three white guys sucker-punched some black guys for hitting on "their" girls. (White guys are apparently angered about this problem).

just sayin'

Posted on: 2010/9/1 21:04
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Grand Banks attracts a large East and Southeast Asian crowd.

I've heard that the fights "started" when three Asian guys sucker-punched some white guys for hitting on "their" girls. (Asian guys are apparently angered about this problem).

So, based on those two pieces information (however reliable or true), I believe the assailant was East Asian.

Posted on: 2010/9/1 20:55
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