Browsing this Thread:
1 Anonymous Users
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
 
|
Stani,
I didn't mean to say that you equate handicapped students with disruptive ones. I was just trying to say that because of the American ideals and philosophies established at the onset of our country, all kids are considered equal and deserve an equal education. Of course, you, like most people, agree with this ideal. And although it's very difficult to do, the important thing is that we still strive towards the perfection of that ideal. And athough many people disagree with how to carry it out, it's important that nobody lose sight of ideals of equality and fairness. It's ironic that some sort of separation may be necessary at times to create a system that is fair and equal to all students. I think part of the problem lies with the idea that a lot of people, including those in government, equate separation with inequality. We've done a lot to deal with the separation issues, but on this special day I don't know if MLK would be happy to see the results of JC's latest public school report card. I am not advocating removing bad students from classrooms solely in an effort to give the better kids a chance. I think it would also benefit the troublemakers as well. It's easy to look at it objectively and say the troublemakers are just creating problems, but when you are in the schools you see that they are just kids who need help. I would just say also, that helping kids when they hit middle school is too late. You have to get them when they're young.
Posted on: 2010/1/18 17:21
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
Re: Stani's comment
I can see your point but... 3. The separated kids would receive special attention to address their socialization issues. This special attention could do a lot of good if it keeps these kids out of the path to truancy and crime. In other words, these kids may need something other than a traditional education and they're not getting it now. If this would happen how many additional staff do you think this would require? Teachers, school psychologists, social workers, teacher's aides.
Posted on: 2010/1/18 14:38
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/6/27 22:27 Last Login : 2012/4/20 14:33 From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
235
 |
Quote:
Thanks for your perspective. A few of points: 1. I don't equate handicapped students with disruptive students. I'm sure most handicapped students want to learn. 2. The separation should take place only after a clear pattern of behavior has been established and after other corrective measures have been taken, in my opinion, in middle school, not earlier. 3. The separated kids would receive special attention to address their socialization issues. This special attention could do a lot of good if it keeps these kids out of the path to truancy and crime. In other words, these kids may need something other than a traditional education and they're not getting it now. 4. I would consider our inner city school systems as already being on the "slippery slope", so why not try to do something different?
Posted on: 2010/1/18 14:20
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2006/11/8 20:49 Last Login : 2022/4/26 19:42 From Chilltown, NJ
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
836
|
Quote:
Have you ever attended Dickinson or Snyder? Both of those schools have excellent teachers but they also have MANY teachers that do nothing and could care less about the kids. Epps you are giving too much credit to, he doesn't do as good a job as you make it sound. Certain teachers do deserve more money but not all.
Posted on: 2010/1/18 7:00
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I'd also like to add that it is a crime that so much more money is given to programs to help failing students than for programs for smart students. It should be a law that the amount of money should be equal. Smart kids are being given the shaft, even in the best public schools. It's bad for kids, and it's bad for our country.
Posted on: 2010/1/18 0:57
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I'd like to butt into Stani and Ogden 1 discussion of disruptive students being removed from classrooms. I worked in JC public schools, and I have to say that there are a handful of students in every classroom whose job it is to ensure that the other kids in the group do not learn. If I were the parent of a decent kids, I would definitely want the bad seeds out. And, trust me, most teachers would love it too. But here's the problem. Once you start separating the good kids from the bad, especially in the early grades where it would make a big difference, you become like countries such as Japan where kids' lives are pretty much mapped out for them in kindergarten. In the US we try to adhere to the idea that every kid, even the handicapped, deserve the best education they can get. Starting to separate kids seems like a good idea, but it might be a slippery slope.
I agree that something has to be done about disruptive students destroying the chance of so many good kids, but it is a very complex situation, and any solution has to be well thought out. I'm all for separation if it means that it would be temporary, and each kid who is removed from the regular classroom would be given a chance to return every year. It would also cost money. The academics and college professors will say that poorly performing students, when placed with a group of better students, will improve. That is complete bull****. It is just the opposite. As the saying goes, One bad apple spoils the whole gang.
Posted on: 2010/1/18 0:53
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Money is always the solution according to the experts. Apparently, Bayonne system is working and it is not the dollalrs but the dedication. In the State of New Jersey we hold taxpayers accountable for not spending enough money. Besides the teachers, we must hold students accountable.
Posted on: 2010/1/17 17:12
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
And your point is???
They should make a lot less? I assume the 103k is the principal. How at. The years of service provided by these folks. I had a teacher that retired from this school. She was by far the most intelligent and qualified educator I have ever encountered. She changed my life and enriched my understanding of literature more than any college professor. She should have been at Mt. Holyoke or Smith. -I know she made a huge difference and should have earned 500K. There are gun battles at this school. How do you suggest that activity is curtailed? Maybe you could ask the overpaid police officers how they recommend the overpaid teachers handle this. Let's just rail against everyone, throw them all in the same bucket and disparage them. Pay them what the security guards earn so we can get the best and brightest This is some of the most ill thougt, mean spirited crap spewed by hate. I never hear solutions!!!!!
Posted on: 2010/1/17 3:42
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
The Jersey Journal ran a story a while back, perhaps 5 years ago, it listed the average salary of teachers in Hudson County. Surprise, Bayonne teachers made the lowest salary of any public teacher in Hudson County.
Posted on: 2010/1/17 1:19
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
There is a website that lists the salary of every public school teacher and administrator
http://php.app.com/edstaff/search.php For example, Lincoln HS has 130 total staff (the site lists 138 but there are duplicates) For the 2008 - 2009 year 105 Teachers 25 Admin and support (e.g. Nurses, social workers, counselors) The average non teacher salary is 92,246 (max = 142,440, min = 48,923) The average teacher salary is 70,051 (max = 103,260, min = 47,323) Personally, I disagree with putting the teacher's names on the website, but I do like the transparency it provides. Does anyone know the contracted number of working days, sick days, etc for JC teachers?
Posted on: 2010/1/17 0:56
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
That's abt. 125K per position citywide. Juxtapose that with a corporate heirarchy. It's maybe middle management level?
So again, what should these folks make 75K, 80K. It took most of my teaching friends 30-35 years to go to top salary around 85K. Think about that....... and they are GREAT TEACHERS! Am I missing something? Corporate America screwed everyone by reducing/eliminating pensions, benefits etc...and paying the executive level ridiculous money. They appointed all their friends to the board and went to town. Don't blame these folks because their union stood up for them.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 21:10
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/6/27 22:27 Last Login : 2012/4/20 14:33 From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
235
|
Quote:
What I was suggesting was separating disruptive kids from the rest of the school population. The disruptive kids need special attention. You can think of them as gifted, if you'd like. In the process, you get an environment more conducive to learning for the rest of the students and one in which teachers are able to do their jobs. It's a win/win. The disruptive kids get specialized attention, the rest of the students get a better learning environment. And with respect to Epps, I just don't see the justification. It's a big job to spend a lot of money running a school district into mediocrity? I might agree with you if it was a matter of running a mediocre school district on a tight budget, or a good school district with a big budget, but neither of these are our case.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 20:44
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Not too shy to talk
|
The Jersey City Board of Education currently pays out almost $5 million dollars in executive salaries alone. That covers 39 people= 12 special assistants, 9 associate superintendent, 1 executive assistant and it goes on. The nearly $5million doesn't include their bonuses or stipends. All of this while enrollment has declined and the schools have shown no improvement what so ever. Its criminal.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 20:34
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
Remember when the state took over and installed Elena Scambia, a very qualified professional.
Well...what changed. Did you ever look at other superintendent's salaries? Why should Epps or anyone else make less? This job is not a piece of cake. As far as segregating kid's....enlighten me.......put all the stupid ones together? who makes that determination? This is laughable. There are gifted and talented programs in schools now. There is McNair Academic. So I guess we just put the unteachables somewhere and let them fail? It is very complex my friend and your solution is very shaky.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 16:42
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/6/27 22:27 Last Login : 2012/4/20 14:33 From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts:
235
|
Quote:
I think the school system should do a better job separating students that want to learn from those that don't. I think there is a small number of students who make it hard for other students to learn and for teachers to teach. The former should be put in a special, alternate school school system. As far as Epps's salary goes, the problem is that it's too high for someone who provides "more of the same" mediocre leadership and management. In other words, you should be able to get someone with his management and leadership skills for much less.
Posted on: 2010/1/16 15:11
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
Yes. It is very complex. I was thinking that parenting skills should be taught. Maybe making that a requirement for those folks on public assistance
But what do I know.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 23:57
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Agreed. It seems that the only solution is to start the kids in school at the age of two and keep them out of their houses as much as possible. There are some cities such as Washington which are piloting boarding school programs for inner city kids. I think it's a great idea, but the kids need to start really young.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 22:51
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Just can't stay away
|
Exactly. How can anyone teach kids whose parents don,t care.The teachers need our support not condemnation. All of you geniuses who mock them should conduct an algebra class at Dickinson or Snyder or better yet a study. It takes teachers 25 years to get to full pay which is abt. 85K
WHOOPEE. As for MR EPPS ...he is running a huge operation with THOUSANDS reporting to him. What do think his salary should be 50K??? We should revere teachers instead of Wall St execs. Our values have become garbage.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 21:00
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
I am not shocked. I think it is kids from social-economic groups that are failing and the sad thing is that their parents are too stupid or mean to care about their child's education..yet people blame the teachers/schools if certain kids don't want to learn.
Maybe society should take a much harsher attitude to parents who have children who fail in school.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 20:32
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Tell me again how much Epps makes a year and the benefits that he gets with his job?
Posted on: 2010/1/15 18:26
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Charter schools can and do have their charters revoked for poor performance. There is direct accountability. What is the accountability for poor performance at district schools - besides the NCLB silliness?
If charter schools were in fact considered public schools, then the JC charters would receive $17,000 per child that the district schools receive, rather than about $8,500.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 15:43
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Quite a regular
|
Just a point that should be considered...... Charter schools are considered public schools and just as there are outstanding public schools and those that perform poorly, the same is true for charters. The magic bullet that our new ed. commissioner has for us in the form of charter schools will make no difference.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 15:17
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Quote:
It's not always the schools, or the parents either. Actually it's never the schools, what's next blaming the books, desks, and other dry materials.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 15:01
|
|||
|
||||
|
Re: Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Does this really shock anyone???? Come on....
Posted on: 2010/1/15 14:47
|
|||
|
||||
|
Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
|
||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Home away from home
|
Jersey City's schools again do poorly on tests; Bayonne's do well
Friday, January 15, 2010 By KRISTEN ALLOWAY Journal staff writers and JEANETTE RUNDQUIST More than 36 percent of schools where students were tested last year failed to meet federal goals for performance on standardized tests, according to data released yesterday by the state Department of Education. More than 800 public schools in New Jersey did not meet the targets set under the federal No Child Left Behind Act, an increase of about 150 schools from 2008, when almost 71 percent hit the mark. In all, students in 2,200 schools were tested last year. In Jersey City, 21 elementary schools and four of the five high schools failed to make the required adequate yearly progress (AYP). Dickinson, Snyder, Ferris and Lincoln fell short for the seventh consecutive year, while McNair Academic made AYP. Among elementary schools, School 41 failed to make AYP for the ninth straight year. Bayonne fared well, with only Midtown Community School failing to make AYP among the city's 12 elementary schools. Bayonne High also failed to make AYP, based on a poor showing in the "students-with-disabilities" category. In the Hoboken district, only the Connors School failed to make AYP. "We in New Jersey have been raising our academic standards and increasing the rigor of our tests," Assistant Commissioner Barbara Gantwerk said in a statement. "We have very high expectations here." The data released yesterday was part of the state's annual report on how New Jersey schools are doing under No Child Left Behind, which requires that every school reach pre-established achievement goals in 40 categories. Included in that, subgroups of students, broken down by things such as race, income and special needs, must all meet the target. Districts can fail to meet the federal target because of a relatively small number of test scores. Dr. Ellen O'Connor, assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction in the Bayonne school district, said the district's performance was "phenomenal." O'Connor said that Bayonne High School, with a large number of special needs students, failed to make AYP in math and language arts because students with disabilities are expected to perform the same as the general population. Charles Hack and Ron Zeitlinger contributed to this story. Additional details about No Child Left Behind by district are available at the state Department of Education Web site at: www.nj.gov/education/schools/achievement/2010/.
Posted on: 2010/1/15 11:13
|
|||
|
||||