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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Home away from home
 
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Wow. So they McNair really was open only to school district employees from outside the district, not just workers (e.g., Goldman Sachs employees, or Target employees) from outside the district. That's pretty obnoxious. If it turns out that "district employee" means "low-paid maintenance engineer," OK, but, if it means white-collar employee with a good salary, who has consciously chosen to live outside in Jersey City (and probably in a community with decent schools), that's another story.
Posted on: 2008/9/18 2:32
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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one school district employee is responsible for three of the five out-of-town children at the school, Donnelly said. Cry me a friggin' river..... this is beyond ludicrous! They are JC PUBLIC Schools!!!! As I mentioned earlier, I send my son to a private school. Since JC now seems to be making our tax-payer backed, public schools available for out-of-town, tuition paying students, it would make just as much sense for JC to refund the 11K worth of public education I am not using. On another note, has it been established that these out-of-town kids of JC BOE employees have TAKEN AND PASSED the entrance exam for McNair?
Posted on: 2008/9/18 2:16
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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The same place many people do who want a better education than our district public school provides, the credit card. Why is this person entitled to more than $30,000 of the finest education JC has to offer, in slots that are desperately competed for by people wanting the best for their childrens future? If he can't afford the ridiculously low price of $7,403, he should send his kids to his local high school, not ours, because I doubt he could find a private HS of McNair's caliber for twice that. 3 times is more like it.
Posted on: 2008/9/18 2:06
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Jersey City school district will consider raising tuition for out-of-town students
by Ken Thorbourne/The Jersey Journal Wednesday September 17, 2008 The Jersey City Board of Education plans to introduce two resolutions at its meeting tomorrow night to address the recent controversy over out-of-town students being allowed to attend McNair Academic High School because they have a parent who works for the school district. The first resolution ends the acceptance of out-of-district students to magnet programs, including McNair, beginning next September. The second resolution hikes the yearly tuition the five out-of-towners currently at McNair have to pay, from $1,204 to $7,403 beginning February. The $7,403 amount is what the state authorizes the district to charge out-of-district high school students, said Board of Education General Counsel Charlotte Kitler. "It's the right thing to do as far as our Jersey City taxpayers are concerned," said Terry Dehere, chair of the board's policy committee, about upping the fees on the out-of-town students. Board member Peter Donnelly said he favors ending the policy of letting in students to McNair because a parent is a school district employee, but he believes upping the tuition shows bad faith. "I don't believe in changing the tuition after the year starts," Donnelly said. "We sent out a letter of admission to the students with the understanding the tuition would be the same. This procedure has been in effect for 12 years." In addition, one school district employee is responsible for three of the five out-of-town children at the school, Donnelly said. "Where are they going to come up with $21,000?," he said. Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy urged the board to charge the students the full cost of educating them at the school, which he estimated to be more than $11,000. McNair, which Newsweek magazine ranked the 30th best high school in the nation this year, admits 200 freshmen each year out of roughly 1,100 students who apply. The board meeting is scheduled for 6 p.m. at School 11, 886 Bergen Ave.
Posted on: 2008/9/18 1:02
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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I would argue that those seats are worth far more to JC residents than a measly $7k a year. How is Healy serving the residents of Jersey City with this decision?
Posted on: 2008/9/14 12:14
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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I think that requiring school employees -- particularly teachers -- to live in JC would make what is now a tough recruiting effort even harder. We need all the good teachers we can get to help turn around the school systems. They could come from Mars for all I care, as long as they are dedicated to our kids. Not my kids, of course. My kid is a dog. And she got kicked outta obedience school. 
Posted on: 2008/9/13 19:55
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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what you opened with was "As a teacher, I cannot afford to live in Jersey City." A very broad provocative statement. It would have been more honest and less political had you said: "since I couldn't afford a space to my liking downtown where I prefer, I said screw it, and got more bang for the buck elsewhere". See the difference? I know people who stayed in Manhattan and raised families in spaces I would not have considered. I chose not to, but I "could have", had my priorities been theirs. My father was raised with his sister in a 2 bedroom in the Bronx. Most middle class people today outside NYC would say that would be "impossible to do", yet it's common there and here. My mother in law cannot fathom why anyone with a choice would live in a city at all. She drives an SUV, lives alone in a 4k sq ft house, and recycles and composts to salve her conscience. Again, congrats on the job you've taken on. It sounds like you're one of the ones that care, not the ones serving time till their pensions.
Posted on: 2008/9/13 5:24
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Newbie
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Petulant? Why? I did not say there aren't beautiful homes throughout Jersey City, nor did I make any negative statements about the other areas. I said I would only live downtown. It is where I was born and raised. My grandparents live there and so does my mother. If I said I cannot afford to live downtown, then I cannot. Who are you to question that? More importantly, why would you?
My allegiance to downtown has always been strong and long before anyone wanted to live there. In fact, growing up people from other areas like Country Village or the Western Slope looked down on downtowners. I could never understand why because I never desired to live anywhere else. (Although, I loved the homes on Bentley Avenue that I passed on my way to lunch during high school. McNair was located there prior to its new location). I do not live in Jersey City because I think it is "Jersey Shitty." I live elsewhere because I get more bang for my buck, I can usually find parking and I am five miles from the school that I teach in. I resent the comment that in order to have a vested interest in my students, I need to live in Jersey City. It is ridiculous. I am extremely committed to educating my students. Many who are significantly behind their suburban counterparts. A fact that troubles me deeply. The drive to do my best for them would not change even if I lived in the suburbs.
Posted on: 2008/9/13 3:45
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I think there's even more to it than that. Where I went to school on LI there were the kids of many of the teachers in class with us. The teachers had both an investment in, and an identification with the schools. While cops and firemen may live down the shore, they only contact citizens on "unusual" occasions to those people. Teachers are with kids day in and day out, and if those kids are from not just a neighborhood, but a whole city the teacher wouldn't be caught dead living in, it seems to me the empathy hurdle is quite high. Not impossibly, but high.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 16:09
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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I think this is despicable.
I grew up in a town in Central Jersey that had excellent schools. In fact, it was not unusual for families to opt to move into the town rather than pay for private schools while living elsewhere. (Even with incredibly high taxes, it makes sense if you have a few kids.) The Board of Ed in the town also spent money on an investigator to investigate students who claimed they were living locally when they really lived elsewhere. (I think the most typical thing was "I'm living with grandma." when really mom was dropping them off at gradma's house every morning in time for the bus.) They kicked those kids out and sued them for their educational costs. Moving on to the other issue here: Quote: For the record, I don't see how a city could make living in the city a condition for employment. I know NYC has residency requirements for some jobs. (For example, I know to be a lawyer with NYC TLC or Dept of Investigation you have to be a city resident.) However - these are not union positions. Maybe it really is union power keeping that from being a reality in JC. There are also some significant studies that people do better at their job, and are more invested in their job, when it's local. For example, you're more likely to come to work in, let's say inclement weather, and get there on time, when you live locally. You're willing to come in a little earlier in the morning or stay a little later when you know your commute home is only a few minutes. And you're less likely to be a job slacker when all of your co-workers are also your neighbors. Many colleges give professors a stipend to live locally for this reason - it helps the school's community and it helps the school.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 14:31
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Thank you for making The Great Jersey City SOUP SWAP an annual success! See you in January 2013 for the next Soup Swap!
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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This thing about forcing city employees to live in the city gets away from the original topic. For the record, I don't see how a city could make living in the city a condition for employment. It would probably end up making the city have a shortage of employees in many depts.
The original point is about out-of-town residents who work for the city getting their kids into a city run school financed by my tax dollars, which in my opinion is total BS. There is no way this should happen, much less that there is a waiting list for that school of what I assume are city kids. I send my son to one of the private Catholic High Schools, and pay plenty for the privilege. I would be very interested to hear if the city, for even a nanosecond, would consider reimbursing my cost for an equivalent amount in light of this extra income they are receiving by getting into what is essentially the private school business. Jersey City continues to amaze with examples of nepotism across the board that one, if asked, would be hard pressed to make up.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 13:00
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Hey folks, this is Jersey City, what did you expect, city employees to play by the rules? Come on!!
Posted on: 2008/9/10 12:54
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Just can't stay away
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Well, its illegal to make teachers live in disctict so it won't happen (courtesy of strong unions). The teacher who claims its too expensive to live here is being disengenuous. There are neighborhoods that are affordable and there are even ways to live in the gentrified areas on a budget. The preferred towns for muncipal employees seem to be places like Toms River which has not been cheap for many years.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 12:51
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Home away from home
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And you also have the best bar with burgers too! 
Posted on: 2008/9/10 5:13
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Not too shy to talk
 
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Jersey City Schools, fraught with all the problems of the Jersey City School Board and the years of City/State control issues, should limit the pool of qualified educators to only those who already live in Jersey City or those who are willing to move to Jersey City? Because 12 students in a decade got away with screwing the system? I'm all for rational employment limitations in certain circumstances, but if the JC schools are ever going to improve, adding an extra, unnecessary, considerable hurdle to attracting talented teachers and administrators is absolutely not the way to achieve it. And I happily and proudly live outside of the downtown "Green Zone", from which it's so easy to tell folks to eat cake.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 4:36
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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I respect your career choice, but to say you "can't" live in JC, because you would only live Downtown but can't afford it, is a statement that reeks on several levels. Not only is it petulant, but I know JC public school teachers who, gasp, live in other neighborhoods. In fact, in addition to the many bright, articulate and employed non downtowners (forgive me) on this board, I know some pretty highly educated and well heeled people who have moved to the Heights and other areas for affordable large historic houses. When we bought for a relative song Downtown 11 years ago, people were saying exactly the same thing you are, except the players were Manhattan vs (then affordable) Downtown JC/Park Slope vs burbs. It's still the same old whining that no one is giving you everything you want on a platter because the fancy neighborhoods you like you can't afford. I can't afford Manhattan, but I don't feel victimized about it, I can't afford lots of things I'd like. Go burb if you choose, but don't say you had no choice, your attitude towards the city at large is a reminder why employee residence would be a good thing.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 3:54
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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I agree with you and I'm not even a city employee. There's just no way a city of Jersey City's size could have all of its employees live within the city limits anyway. Other cities (albeit larger ones than Jersey City) have tried that policy and it generally hasn't gone well. Washington,DC in the early 90s comes to mind- it was a total disaster. They couldn't find enough qualified people in the city to fill police officer vacancies, so they ended up hiring people that had felonies on their record. Uh huh. Great policy. But as far as the matter at hand goes, exactly what were they thinking when they set non-resident tuition at $1200? You have to be kidding me. Even back in 1992, that would be incredibly low for non-resident or private school tuition. But then again, many of our city officials, elected and non-elected, are known for acting in a way that defies all logic. Hopefully they will successfully raise the tuition ten-fold or more and this problem will solve itself.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 3:01
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Newbie
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As a teacher, I cannot afford to live in Jersey City. Should we have subsidized housing for city employees? There are certain programs available, but they tend to only be an option if you can tolerate living in the worst part of the city. I would only want to live downtown, the place where had I lived all my life. I cannot afford the rent on my salary, forget purchasing. You cannot force people to live where they work, nor should you.
I like this site, but sometimes I am just amazed at the arrogance that permeates these boards.
Posted on: 2008/9/10 1:58
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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TUITION BOOST
Tuesday, September 09, 2008 By KEN THORBOURNE JOURNAL STAFF WRITER Tuition is going up for the handful of out-of-town students allowed to attend Jersey City's prestigious McNair Academic High School because a parent works for the school district. And these five students will be the last out-of-district students admitted to the high school, officials said yesterday. Joined by Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy, the Board of Education's policy committee decided yesterday the students - two freshmen and three sophomores - shouldn't be booted from the school. But their current $1,204 tuition charge should be significantly upped. Board of Ed attorney Charlotte Kitler said the state has authorized the district to charge out-of-district students $7,400 a year for high school tuition. This figure, she said, is based on the current local school tax levy of $86 million. The state picks up 85 percent of the district's $650 million overall school tab, officials said. Healy wanted the parents of the five children to start paying the higher rate immediately. "We spend - between the taxpayers and the state - anywhere from $14,000 to $19,000 a year per pupil," Healy said. "It is incumbent on us . that we ensure that Jersey City taxpayers' dollars are spent for the benefit of Jersey City residents and Jersey City children." Policy chairman Terry Dehere suggested the new rate take effect in January, when the new semester begins, which most of the other four board members at the meeting seemed to agree with. The policy committee assigned Kitler the task of coming up with a fair tuition charge and said they planned to introduce a resolution with the new number - and a timetable for implementation - at the next board meeting on Sept. 18. School officials said they decided in October not to admit out-of-district students to any magnet programs in the district, including McNair, starting next September. Out-of-district students will still be allowed to enroll in general education programs, but will have to pay the revised tuition rate, they said. State Assemblyman L. Harvey Smith also attended yesterday's meeting and urged board members to change the current policy, which dates to 1992.
Posted on: 2008/9/9 13:04
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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Just can't stay away
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It's a Jersey City public school, why are we letting kids in from out of town. I know that if you want to go to a school outside your district in Jersey City you have to get permission. The spaces are limited and giving them to kids from outside the school system is unfair your depriving our kids of getting a good education. Some of these kids can't afford to go to Prep or Hudson Catholic or any other private school. What would happen if some of Jersey City kids went to a public school out of town just because thier parents worked in that city or for the city, the parents would be in an uproar saying that it was unfair. So I say send them back to whatever system they are from and let the Jersey City kids in.
Posted on: 2008/9/9 2:47
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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Home away from home
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alb wrote: I read it the same way, but then I considered that this is the Jersey Journal so prepositions should never be taken literally.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 18:36
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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Are people sure that the policy applies just to kids of parents who work FOR the district? My impression from the article is that it applies to kids of any parents who work IN the district.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 17:55
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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Requiring municipal employee residence would fix more than this problem, it would fix the carpetbagger, uncommitted, "what else do you expect living in Jersey Shitty?" attitude, particularly among the cops. But it'll never happen, the unions are too strong, and the politicians too tied to them.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 17:19
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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Quite a regular
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The most important thing is that enrollment slots are being given away to out-of-district students for the cost of annual school supplies. Most public high school districts that allow out-of-district students do so at full tuition and only if spots are available. Unless they are seniors and have been at McNair since the beginning, and their parents are charged full tuition and fees, the students should be removed immediately. It is only a week into the new school year and they should adjust well in their home districts. Their slots should be given to JC kids.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 16:32
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Re: Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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alarming even if it is one spot since spots are limited.
The cynic in me wonders if someone on the board has an ax to grind with the parent of one of those students. If that is the case and is the motivation for the dust-up, that's pretty sad. Sorry..but can't ever forget that this is politics AND further and more important..This is Jersey City.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 16:18
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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They could fix this by requiring school employees to live in the city.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 15:57
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Re: Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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Wow, $1,204, That's like, what, 1/10 of what our cost per student is?
12 students in 16 years isn't lot, but it appears to be accelerating, and is just another example of JC being run for the benefit of it's employees not it's citizens. Could you imagine the employees of a diamond store being able to buy for 10%? JC's one elite school should not be the equivalent of colleges that give free or discount tuition to employees children.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 15:40
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Jersey City's McNair High taking in out-of-towners related to district staff
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McNair is just for city kids, right?
Monday, September 08, 2008 By LYSA CHEN JOURNAL STAFF WRITER Who knew Jersey City's top-rated high school, McNair Academic High School, has been enrolling students who don't live in the city? Well apparently it has. After a couple of school board members raised questions about the issue last week, school officials acknowledged that McNair - perennially ranked one of the country's best high schools by national media - has been allowing the children of parents who work in the school district to compete for the 200 available spots at the school. Since the policy was initiated in 1992 by former superintendent Dr. Elena Scambio, a total of 12 out-of-district students have attended McNair, including five students currently enrolled, said Deputy Superintendent Francis X. Dooley. The out-of-district students are charged $1,204 a year, Dooley said. Some 1,100 to 1,300 students apply to the prestigious school every year. Most are turned away for academic reasons as well as the limited capacity of the Cole Street facility. Terry Dehere, chair of the school board's policy committee, blasted the policy of allowing out-of-towners to attend McNair, calling it "unfair for the people, kids and students of Jersey City." "It actually does hurt the kids. It also hurts the taxpayers," said Dehere, whose committee plans to address the issue at a public meeting today at 4 p.m., at the Board of Education, 346 Claremont Ave. Board member and former mayor Gerald McCann believes the five out-of-district students at the school should be pulled out immediately. "Why allow them to take advantage of the people in Jersey City?" McCann asked. "I don't have any obligation to some kid who lives in Toms River or Bergen County. As far as I'm concerned, they have denied some student from Jersey City the opportunity to go to that school." McNair keeps a waiting list of 40 students, who are promoted from the list if other students reject offers to attend the school, Dooley said. The school usually ends up accepting everyone from the wait list, he said. Every student must take a rigorous test to enter the school, which offers 23 advanced placement courses. Earlier this year, Newsweek magazine ranked McNair the 30th best high school in the nation. In its current edition, New Jersey Monthly magazine ranks McNair the state's second best public high school, just behind Millburn High School in Essex County.
Posted on: 2008/9/8 13:11
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Outrageous... out-of-town board-of-ed kids going to McNair
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This is just ridiculous....
McCann finally got one right.... http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 20855146294560.xml&coll=3
Posted on: 2008/9/8 12:55
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