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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Home away from home
 
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I meant to post this a few days ago, but I thought that those who are hungry for Whole Foods in Jersey City may find this Washington Post article interesting. It's called, you guessed it, "Hungry for Whole Foods." It's about a gentrifying neighborhood's quest to get them to open up in their DC neighborhood. And while it's from 2006, it touches on many of the same issues we've been discussing in Downtown Jersey City today. Here are some interesting quotes from the article: HOW WHOLE FOODS MAY POSITIVELY IMPACT A COMMUNITY: "Here's one for the B-school textbooks: the Whole Foods Effect. In Pittsburgh's East Liberty neighborhood, a Whole Foods is credited with triggering a revival. In Sarasota, Fla., developers say they pre-sold all 95 apartments in a condominium tower because a Whole Foods opened on the first floor. And in Washington, many trace the revival of Logan Circle and the 14th Street corridor to the opening in 2000 of a Whole Foods on P Street NW." WHAT RESIDENTS ARE DOING TO GET WHOLE FOODS' ATTENTION: "Whole Foods has received about 500 e-mails from people in Columbia Heights. Some bear messages as simple as "We beg you!" Others contain sophisticated references to the company's stock price, corporate strategy and the neighborhood's demographics. Many of the writers said they admired the company's social conscience and employment practices." "Robin Kang, 29, a computer specialist who bought a Victorian on Newton Place less than a year ago, began the e-mail campaign using a Web site he created. His role models are the Logan Circle residents who enticed Whole Foods with a 52-page demographic study that demonstrated the affluence of homeowners within half a mile. They also flooded Whole Foods' headquarters with 3,000 pre-printed postcards." WHOLE FOODS IS LISTENING AND RESPONDING: "For three years, Whole Foods has been weighing whether to locate a store in the heart of Columbia Heights, at 14th Street and Park Road NW, where a New York developer, Grid Properties Inc., is building a massive retail center on public land. The center, scheduled to open in 2008, will include Washington's first Target and a Best Buy." HOW THIS PERTAINS TO DOWNTOWN JERSEY CITY: I just thought I'd throw this article out there for anyone who's interested in starting some sort of stepped-up campaign to bring Whole Foods to the neighborhood. While I am quite content without a Whole Foods or Trader Joe's, either would be a really nice addition to 07302.
Posted on: 2008/7/12 17:43
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Home away from home
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Downtown Jersey City has some struggles similar to those I remember reading about when I lived in the DC area until June 2001.
Anne Hull, a Washington Post reporter, crafted a revealing April 2001 article about Whole Foods opening in a gentrifying part of DC -- 14th and P Street NW. HERE ARE SOME MEMORABLE QUOTES: "With the cars double-parked outside, it became apparent there was a new drug on P Street. It was called food." "But in this neighborhood? This neighborhood was more Popeyes and bulletproof windows, arroz con leche and $3.29 fried whiting in greasy carry-out joints that played "Bad Bad Leroy Brown" on scratchy AM radio." "Not on P Street, home of Best-In Liquors and its large sign warning, "DO NOT URINATE HERE, VIOLATORS WILL BE ARRESTED." "The area still had its share of soup kitchens, homeless shelters and armed robberies. But in 1997, an unlikely retailer began scouting the area for property." "Psychographic figures revealed that dining and entertaining were core values in the gentrifying P Street radius, which was increasingly white, gay and affluent." "The majority of the 300 hires are from the neighborhood. They live in the shrinking inventory of affordable housing, Section 8 apartments and much-prized rent-controlled units. For them, grocery shopping means 69-cent chicken thighs on sale and Donald Duck orange juice and bread that's either white or wheat. This is a whole new galaxy." "It would be one of the largest stores in the company, with 37,000 square feet of shopping area and a parking garage for 151 cars. Hoping for a visual echo, the architect studied the abandoned auto showrooms that lined 14th Street in the 1940s. A glass facade would throw light everywhere, creating a colossal blast of radiance on P Street. Galvanized steel beams were left exposed in the ceiling. The aisles would be roomy and wide, mocking the Lilliputian lanes of cramped city markets. Special bulbs were used to create a natural warmth, not the cold blue of other grocery stores." "Groupies monitored the construction site as if it were a sacred dig. When the glass front went in, they pressed their noses to it and tried to guess how much longer." "On this Sunday morning, the store is something to see: brunch hunters in leather jackets, scruffy pagans, matching male couples and worshipers from the nearby AME Zion, cooling their gospel throats with power smoothies in the juice bar. And yet there's the sense that all parties are grappling with one another's folkways. Those most mystified are the employees." Here's the full article (you may have to scroll down for it) and the transcript of a web interview with Anne Hull where she answers questions from the community. Both provide an interesting look at a mix of cultures and classes in a shifting urban environment. (Note: At times, the article refers to Whole Foods as Fresh Fields. Whole Foods operated under the name Fresh Fields in the DC/MD/VA market from 1996 until 2002 when it changed the name of its stores to Whole Foods. Fresh Fields opened its first store in 1991 and had 22 stores in four major markets nationwide before it merged with Whole Foods in 1996. For more details on Whole Foods' and Fresh Fields' corporate history, click here.)
Posted on: 2008/7/9 21:05
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Metro Plaza has a theoretical concept from the architectural firm responsible for the Metropolitan renderings.
This information comes from the architectural firm Arqitectonica, better known for its Miami glass towers, but also responsible for Newport's future Ellipse building. Flash Navigation (Projects => Mixed Use => Hudson Square) From their website: (speaking of the Metropolitan) "It is the first tower of the Hudson Square residential and retail development, only a block in from the Hudson River in Jersey City, NJ. A total of eight residential buildings are planned, which surround a newly developed park. The park acts as a the town square of the project and provides space for leisure activities, as well as street vendors and possibly water features. Retail lines the park and the newly created Boulevard, offering both boutique and big box options to the residents and surrounding community" The Metropolitan is the 755 foot / 67 story tower with 809 residential units proposed about 18 months ago, before the credit crisis. It supposedly was to break ground in the spring of 2007, and then the summer of 2007, just as soon as the Pep Boys lease expired. Pep Boys is still there. So what are the chances that the Hudson Square development will include a Whole Foods? Well, it doesn't really matter since the first tower in the development hasn't even broken ground. Meanwhile, over in Liberty Harbor North, there is a limited amount of factual material. Fact 1: phase I of Liberty Harbor calls for a retail building at Grand and Jersey. Fact 2: Peter Mocco thinks "Whole Foods is a great retailer" but has not confirmed anything. The only sources that say a Whole Foods is coming to Liberty Harbor North is anonymous postings on a message board notorious for being the hunting grounds of real estate brokers, and unnamed "city sources." Great. Lots of confidence. Also, while in April 2007, 350,000 square feet of LHN retail was 2 to 2 1/2 years away, that statement was made before the credit crisis (Happy First Birthday, Credit Crisis!). Based on the absurd level of shyster spam marking Liberty Harbor has been engaging in lately, I would guess that the development, like everything else has been bit hard by the shortage of buyers and lack of available money. The pace of construction on the site has slowed, even more than the usually slow pace. While they were at one time working on three blocks of housing, it appears they are only very slowly working on the single large building 3 and maybe a few more detail work around the rest of the development. So its probably a good bet that those 2 to 2 1/2 years until there is 350,000 square feet of retail has been extended, even though we should be a year closer. Also, even if the retail building at Grand and Jersey was to begin construction sooner rather than later, there is nothing that makes certain Whole Foods is the tenant. The only thing that has sort of been confirmed is that there will be a gourmet grocery. On the other hand, if Whole Foods has an agreement already worked out, its likely the retail building will be built on time (since any agreement probably is an assured revenue stream, unlike built on speculation housing). However, Whole Foods also is working on plenty of actually confirmed locations, like the the Greenwich Street location that is opening in two days. So anyway, let's stop wasting all our time with anonymous message board rumors.
Posted on: 2008/7/8 14:39
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Just can't stay away
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If within one week, you must fit in 40 hours at your fulltime job, 8 hours commuting, 3 hours of lunch-time dedicated to Physical Therapy to avoid surgery, a household to run, a 9 month old baby to raise, an elderly mother who requires a lot of help, a marriage (to a very helpful husband:o), friendships and family to maintain?Not to mention, church, community or volunteer?.what Whole Foods or Trader Joes has that they do not is everything you need centrally located in one store so that you can, at least, eat well and purchase your foods within an hour. I sure do wish I could stay home with my baby, shop for the best foods at local stores and cook them up fresh at a reasonable dinner-time?But, I choose to live in NYC, and that's hardly possible for me, so I need Whole Foods to help me along.
Posted on: 2008/3/24 20:04
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I can no longer even enter the JC Pathmarks or the downtown Shoprite. It started with a slight feeling of nausea near the Old Colony PM deli section, to a full-blown ban on going to those stores. Period. The Hoboken Shoprite is much better. I would love a better grocery store option like Whole Foods and would pay for it, because, as it is, I am mostly eating (and paying a fair amount for) take-out from places I trust.
Posted on: 2008/3/24 16:57
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This is a huge thread, and I don't have time to go back to all the posts, so I've only caught the last few.
But, I am consfused why we're down on WF? Are they a bad company? Do they overwork employees for no benefits or something? (I'm not being funny. I'm serious.) I walk across-town once a week to get to WF because the food is delicious....The produce is just beautiful! I'm not an organic weirdo either. For me, it's just better tasting....So, if we're down on WF for a real reason, I need to know why. I would be so happy to see them open one in JC!! And, a Wegmans too! Either or, actually. p.s. I saw some comments about Pathmark. Again, I haven't read all of it, but I can say that I was there yesterday for some last minute Easter items, and I waited on-line at one of the 2 open registers for 50 minutes while 10 employees walked around, talked on their cellphones and joked around with each other. Whenever I or one of the other folks on-line asked if they were opening a register, we were rudely met with a nasty, "No." We all just stood there laughing and shocked at how mind-boggling it was the whole time. That store is a customer service abomination!
Posted on: 2008/3/24 16:38
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Since I'm a five year Wegmans employee in the Woodbridge NJ location and a long time resident of JC I thought I'd add my two cents to this conversation. First I do think that a Wegmans here would 'blow all others away' - of course it would not force others to close or anything but you cannot compare to Shop Rite or Pathmark. I do get a kick out of the renovated A&P - it looks like a very small Wegmans, just with poor quality and sky high prices on many items. Sadly there are no plans for a Wegmans here at home. The expansion plans over the next ten years is going on in Maryland and Virginia. Second, Wegmans is non-union. I came from the corporate world of 9-5 of many years and was laid off due to the horrid bush economy in 2002. I went through four interviews at Wegmans and was one of 147 folks lucky enough to snag a full time slot at Woodbridge - at the time the store received 4000 applications. I could not be happier with my current career - the pay and benefits at Wegmans are the best I've ever received in my life. When I don't bring groceries home from work each day my partner and I do hop over to Trader Joes in Edgewater - they do an outstanding job on most items that they offer - also Whole Foods is great, of course Wegmans offers most Whole Foods products in their Natures Market Section of each store, plus everything else found in a Shop Rite.
Posted on: 2008/3/24 2:47
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What about all of those vacant lots near Washington and Warren? They could certainly build a multi level Whole Foods with parking. I'm not holding my breath on this one. I'll just have to keep trekking my WF groceries on the Path after work.
meh.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 23:11
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The 14th store is in NYC and will cease to significantly serve the area the second a similar large health food focused retailer moves into JC (close to Path). This doesn't necessarily need to be Trader (with enhanced product line) .... I do think Wolf Foods has a nice ring to it.  The point I'm making here is that downtown JC will one day be an area with multiple high density buildings full of high income owners/renters. These buildings are going to continue to proliferate once the markets improve (given the location) and one day create an area that presents a compelling opportunity for a WF or some other like retailer. This is not a 12 to 18 month scenario, but one with a much longer horizon.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 19:52
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We already have a union/antiunion thread here on jclist but I just want to make a point that while Whole Foods and Trader Joes are not unionized, WF is considered to one of the BEST places to work in the USA. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortun ... anies/snapshots/1575.html Just because a store is not unionized does not mean that the employees are treated poorly. I think most of us would agree that shopping at a WF is a much better experience than shopping at a SR from a employee interaction perspective. The employees at WF are happy to work there because they are treated well by the CEO. The employees at SR are contempt and apathetic because they are in a union and there is no recourse for poor performance. I will always support companies that treat their employees well because it is the RIGHT thing to do, not because the members have been coerced into paying a fee to a power greedy group.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 15:18
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My favorite part of this discussion is how no one is saying "I don't want another giant retailer bringing traffic to my neighborhood" the way they bitched and moaned about Home Depot. That store, BTW, is a model of how to create a parking friendly large retail space in an area strapped for available land, should one of these grocers deign to deposit a store here. Given how few cars are there on my visits, perhaps it'll be available eventually.
I agree with the naysaying posters "low $ demographic" argument, based on my frustration with Costco, which refuses to put a store in Hudson County. BJ's is a crappy wannabee. The 3 Costo's in our area are all a 1/2 hr drive, similar to WF & TJ in Edgewater.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 4:02
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Pathmark, A&P, Shoprite, Stop & Shop & Kings are all unionized and all under the same union contract throughout North Jersey (over 40,000 workers). Supremo is also unionized but under a different contract Fresh Direct and Garden of Eden in Hoboken are attempting to unionize. I love basic foods in Hoboken, unfortunately they are non-union. I go there and buy products I cannot get at shoprite. Even if there were a whole foods in the area I would still support Basic Foods instead.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 2:46
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Isn't the Trader Joe's in Edgewater literally right next door to the Whole Foods. Like, the next strip mall over? Kind of like how the Trader Joe's in Union Square is exactly one block east of the Whole Foods? It's not an either or. By your logic regarding a Harrison/Newark/JC/Hoboken Whole Foods needing to be near a PATH station, how is the 14th Street Whole Foods not already this store you speak of? Regardless of whether Whole Foods will one day deign to park it's absurdly over-priced indulgent store in our town, Jersey City will never be able to sustain an urban-style Whole Foods designed to meet profits without substantial parking. Never. Going. To. Happen.
Posted on: 2008/3/22 2:08
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a) That's good to know. Do you know if Pathmark is unionized, too? b) One thing to keep in mind is that we don't have to have a Whole Foods to have a good place to go to get organic groceries. If we could just get a smaller version of the Basic Foods grocery store that Hoboken has, or if we could somehow help Subia's grow to become a store like that, that would be a huge improvement over the situation we have now.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 19:09
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I DO see where you're going Mr Wolf.. we do have higher projected "better" population than a lot of areas of the country, esp with Manhattan. Let's all hope, right?
Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:47
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Ummmmm, you forget the projected increases in population anticipated for these areas, partially driven by the million projected for NYC. The demographics in these areas are CHANGING by the day, fertile ground for earnings hungry companies like WF. No one said they were the same, only that a TJs in JC would take SOME sales from WF in the area. Given that customers are not overly abundant in the area, the notion becomes more relevant (i.e. not an issue in Manhattan since the city easily supports both due to the sizable customer base). This will happen.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:39
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Ummm.. what? These communities may have a lot of population, but they DO NOT have the demographics. ANY way you slice it, most of Hudson County, seen through zips, is at least HALF of the income levels demanded by a chain like WF. HALF. And TJ's and WF are seen as appropriate companion stores, they in NO WAY compete with each other. TJ's tends to follow WF into a market... (Edgewater, Union Square, Ridgewood/Paramus), they simply are NOT the same. Very little fresh food in TJ's, tiny meat selection (all pre-packaged). etc. Whole Foods is a supermarket.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:11
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Maybe. But Jersey City, Hoboken, Harrison and Newark easily have the demographics (assuming a store location set close to the Path). A Whole Foods in JC is an inevitable certainty. Earnings growth and the dynamics of competition require the move. The company cannot allow Trader Joes to waltz into JC and cannibalize its Union Square/Edgewater locations. I hope this helps, Jenny Mayla.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 18:03
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And thus proving the theory that demographically, Jersey City lacks enough consumers financially capable of supporting a Whole Foods.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:40
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ding ding ding. you're already going to Edgewater. They feel they're already servicing the small slice of JC customers from this store that is what-- 4 miles away? I'm sure they even feel Union Square is servicing JC... because it is.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:39
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Quite a regular
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Parking isn't an issue for a Whole Foods opening in downtown JC because there are stores in NYC with no parking at all. I think it would do very well if it is close to a light rail station, and I would love it because then I wouldn't have to deal with River Road traffic driving to the Edgewater store!
 I agree with other posters that Shop Rite/A&P wouldn't lose any business because its too expensive to do ALL your shopping there, its best for their prepared items, cheese, produce, hard-to-find spices...
Posted on: 2008/3/21 17:28
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In defense of Shop-rite and it's appearance ... when you consider the volume that they do, it would be extremely difficult to make everybody's shopping experience pleasant. Their main priority is to keep the shelves stocked and move customers in and out of the store. As for Dunkin Donuts, I stop there every couple days and have never had a problem there. The workers there are doing their best .. I've seen much worse.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 15:12
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To respond to some of the posts on this thread...
1. Whole Foods is not putting Shop Rite or A&P out of business any time soon. I love Whole Foods, but I agree, for bulk items, it is too expensive. Places like Shop Rite and A&P don?t care about customer service. Unfortunately that's the way it is always going to be. People shop for convenience and pricing. I agree, if a Wegmans came in, then they would have something to worry about. Another note, I typically shop at A&P which is clean btw, but this week decided to go to Shop Rite and found that it is disgusting in there. 2. Dunkin's are independently owned. The coffee tastes different at each Dunkin, and I have been to many that have run out of Donuts. They don?t care. I wish corporate would have some kind of quality control dept that could keep an eye on the franchises. Like grocery shopping, people go there for price and convenience.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 14:35
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Also, I think Dunkin's death clock started on Thursday morning when Starbucks opened. The store has gotten worse, not better. I went in there last week around 9pm, and they had literally a dozen donuts. Not a dozen types of donuts, but a dozen donuts that probably had been sitting there from the afternoon. It is in a prime retail location-- which means rent is going to be very high when it comes time to renew their lease.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:56
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There's a lot of truth in this. In fact Whole Foods and Trader Joes really do not compete head to head with the Shop-Rites and A&P's. What happens is that many people go to WF and TJ for specialty items then buy the bulk of their food at traditional grocery stores. A bigger worry for traditional grocers are Wegmans, Stu Leonards and Wal-Marts with full line grocery stores inside. All of these however do better in more suburban areas and when I say Suburban I am talking about areas that are spread out, almost all of North Jersey is urban. Also just to remind everyone Shop-Rite, A&P and others are unionized supermarkets where workers receive good pay, health benefits and defined benefit pensions. Whole Foods and Trader Joes are anti-union chains with official policies of Employment At Will meaning your employment is at the will of the company and you can be terminated at any time for any reason (aside from title 7 exemptions).
Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:55
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I actually think that A&P is in greater danger of closing if Whole Foods were to open. ShopRite will probably race to the bottom and compete with PathMark rather than with Whole Foods. A&P on the other hand renovated their store and subsequently raised their prices. However, most likely due to shoddy management, A&P is often understocked, has produce of questionable quality, and on top of that, long lines. I think A&P will need to get their act together to stay in the game since they have driven away the lowest income customers while failing to cater to higher income customers.
Also, as for ShopRite, in the long term, the whole Metro Plaza property has a plan for 8 towers. The first of these, the Metropolitan, has since been put on hold. However, eventually the strip mall will be replaced probably over the next two decades. According to an article I read last year, I think on GlobeSt, "retail will continue to be a major component" of the property; this probably means a major grocery store will be included in the base of one of the planned towers, and only then do I suspect ShopRite will begin catering to upper income demographics, assuming ShopRite continues to be an anchor tenant.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:53
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Do you honestly believe that Shoprite needs to be worried about a Whole Foods in their backyard? I'm sorry, but it is comical for you to mention the thought that Whole Foods could make Shoprite "go under" ..lol Have you ever stepped foot inside Shoprite to see what their sales are like? I would highly doubt that Whole Foods would put any noticeable dent into Shoprite's customer base and sales. Just because you're too good to be around the clientele of Shoprite or the Dunkin Donuts by the PATH station does not mean that they need to get their acts together. Trust me, they are both in prime locations with huge customer bases .. both will do just fine no matter what happens.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 13:37
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couple what Ian says, and what Ive stated MANY times, there simply is not enough critical mass of appropriate demo's that they look for around here. Even 20000 new condos doesnt strengthen the numbers enough around here for it to matter.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 11:34
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Home away from home
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+1  Good article summing up the Whole Food mainliners syndrome of junkies lookin for a fix in JC spinning rumors. Thanks also for bringing in the retail space considerations necessary for a Whole Foods or destination retail which most are oblivious to knowing, whether it's a Whole Foods or B&N, Border's et al. Having been present at the birth of the B&N superstore beginnings, I know that large retailers such as the aforementioned, look for retail space and traffic far in excess of any locale presently in place in JC.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 8:31
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Since I sorted started all this, I figured I should weigh in. I've recapped the last two years of rumors here.
Posted on: 2008/3/21 2:03
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