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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Monroe wrote:
Just imagine, if we had 30% more to spend on road repairs! Want it? Get NJ to drop prevailing wage laws that add 30% to the cost of road repairs. As long as codes are enforced to insist quality work from contractors we'd have huge, instant savings.

But the politicians are scared to buck the special interest groups that fund their campaigns.

Damn those unions for fighting for living wages that help provide food for their families! Damn those unions for requiring that their membership is properly certified and trained on the best techniques! If only our state could hire a bunch of schmucks off the street to man the machines and work on roads for half the cost, everything would be so much better. It?s not like workers won?t be able to afford to spend the money necessary to keep the economy moving. It is so much better when we continue to keep taking money away from the middle class.

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brewster wrote:
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Frank_M wrote:
She wants to catch people who break the law? Good for her, but that?s called police work, and police work isn't cheap.


I disagree that it's necessarily "police work" that needs to be done in the most expensive possible way. I think there's lots of ways to achieve enforcement, same as using parking agents or traffic agents for those jobs freeing cops for real crime.

I find it sad that the traffic cam issue has run so far off the rails, in part due to greed. It's a great idea to make our streets safer. That's why I like the idea of citizens submitting footage of traffic violations, maybe it would cut down on the absurd amount of stop sign running here, and I don't mean roll throughs.

This city absolutely needs to become more pedestrian friendly. As such there should be steps taken towards that aim. I have no desire to crush traffic to a grinding halt over people crossing the street, but on certain roads, stop signs definitely need to be enforced, along with speed limits. Far too often, I see people racing down my street from one speed bump to the next. This morning, I saw two cars nearly collide because one was driving fast and not paying attention to another car back out of a driveway.

We can?t have police on every corner, but we should absolutely have some CCTV on each corner monitoring the city and setting up patrols where we need it most. If that starts with citizens popping out cell phones and recording people, then I?m fine with it.

Posted on: 2015/3/13 15:06
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Frank_M wrote:
She wants to catch people who break the law? Good for her, but that?s called police work, and police work isn't cheap.


I disagree that it's necessarily "police work" that needs to be done in the most expensive possible way. I think there's lots of ways to achieve enforcement, same as using parking agents or traffic agents for those jobs freeing cops for real crime.

I find it sad that the traffic cam issue has run so far off the rails, in part due to greed. It's a great idea to make our streets safer. That's why I like the idea of citizens submitting footage of traffic violations, maybe it would cut down on the absurd amount of stop sign running here, and I don't mean roll throughs.


Posted on: 2015/3/12 20:27
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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brewster wrote:


I don't think the idea is for people to make their living videoing idlers, just that they're giving a "non-altruistic" incentive to do it.


I know that?s not the idea, but it still follows the unfortunate trend of unloading the responsibilities of what should be salaried work on to cheap contract labor. The councilwoman is suggesting this plan only because, ?Current laws against environmentally dangerous idling* are almost never enforced.? Ms. Rosenthal says there?s a problem with law enforcement, but instead of addressing it, she wants to ask the public to fill in the gap for the promise of a small reward? less of course all the benefits that law enforcement personnel normally enjoy. She wants to catch people who break the law? Good for her, but that?s called police work, and police work isn't cheap.

*I don?t believe the difference between idling and environmentally dangerous idling can be precisely defined or quantified, but never mind that point.

Posted on: 2015/3/12 19:20
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Just imagine, if we had 30% more to spend on road repairs! Want it? Get NJ to drop prevailing wage laws that add 30% to the cost of road repairs. As long as codes are enforced to insist quality work from contractors we'd have huge, instant savings.

But the politicians are scared to buck the special interest groups that fund their campaigns.

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Frank_M wrote:
Of course idling engines burn fuel and generate pollution, but if we were sincere about working on the problem of automobile pollution, we would start by owning fewer cars and driving much less, our legislators would demand emission standards appropriate to the capabilities of twenty-first century technology, and Councilwoman Rosenthal would push for a congestion pricing initiative in Manhattan.

Instead, Americans continue to purchase and use oversize, inefficient automobiles for extremely light duties, our legislators continue to avoid rocking the emissions standards boat lest they interrupt the flow of campaign money, and here, Ms. Rosenthal lays two incredible turds at once by trying to create an underpaid, benefit-exempt contract work force (the cornerstone of America?s race to the bottom), only to have them report their fellow citizens to the authorities for a petty offense. That?s not a sincere effort, that?s just sad.


You left off the low gas taxes, both national and NJ. The reason roads are falling apart is that the tax was not indexed, so the US tax has fallen 40% in real dollars, I can't find when NJ's was last raised. Funny how some taxes like Sales are % and other are fixed, like they love to leave a bone to fight over in the future.

I don't think the idea is for people to make their living videoing idlers, just that they're giving a "non-altruistic" incentive to do it.

Posted on: 2015/3/12 19:19
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Frank_M wrote:
Of course idling engines burn fuel and generate pollution, but if we were sincere about working on the problem of automobile pollution, we would start by owning fewer cars and driving much less, our legislators would demand emission standards appropriate to the capabilities of twenty-first century technology, and Councilwoman Rosenthal would push for a congestion pricing initiative in Manhattan.

Instead, Americans continue to purchase and use oversize, inefficient automobiles for extremely light duties, our legislators continue to avoid rocking the emissions standards boat lest they interrupt the flow of campaign money, and here, Ms. Rosenthal lays two incredible turds at once by trying to create an underpaid, benefit-exempt contract work force (the cornerstone of America?s race to the bottom), only to have them report their fellow citizens to the authorities for a petty offense. That?s not a sincere effort, that?s just sad.


You left off the low gas taxes, both national and NJ. The reason roads are falling apart is that the tax was not indexed, so the US tax has fallen 40% in real dollars, I can't find when NJ's was last raised. Funny how some taxes like Sales are % and other are fixed, like they love to leave a bone to fight over in the future.

I don't think the idea is for people to make their living videoing idlers, just that they're giving a "non-altruistic" incentive to do it.

Posted on: 2015/3/12 17:45
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Of course idling engines burn fuel and generate pollution, but if we were sincere about working on the problem of automobile pollution, we would start by owning fewer cars and driving much less, our legislators would demand emission standards appropriate to the capabilities of twenty-first century technology, and Councilwoman Rosenthal would push for a congestion pricing initiative in Manhattan.

Instead, Americans continue to purchase and use oversize, inefficient automobiles for extremely light duties, our legislators continue to avoid rocking the emissions standards boat lest they interrupt the flow of campaign money, and here, Ms. Rosenthal lays two incredible turds at once by trying to create an underpaid, benefit-exempt contract work force (the cornerstone of America?s race to the bottom), only to have them report their fellow citizens to the authorities for a petty offense. That?s not a sincere effort, that?s just sad.

Posted on: 2015/3/12 14:07
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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HeightsBrat wrote:
Funny that this thread started up.

This morning on the radio, before 6am, they had one of those 'man in the street' questions; this was in Manhattan. It was, in effect, would you take a video/picture of someone idling & turn it in if you could collect 1/2 of the ticket value for doing so. All but one person would.


I know that it is an unpopular take/opinion, but I really do think that people idling their cars are being selfish and a detriment to everyone in their surroundings and the overall health of the region. NYC has one of the largest incidences of pediatric asthma in the US (to the tune of close to 50% higher!) and the same is true for adult lifetime prevalence, and adult current prevalence. Simply put, there are too many cars in the region, too many people idling in their cars, or double parking, while waiting for kids to be discharged from school, while they run into stores to grab a quick coffee/bite, etc. It sucks to have things come to this, but perhaps it is way overdue and this is simply a result of the lax enforcement of idling laws. People should be more considerate of their neighbors, surroundings and overall environment.

Posted on: 2015/3/11 14:11
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Funny that this thread started up.

This morning on the radio, before 6am, they had one of those 'man in the street' questions; this was in Manhattan. It was, in effect, would you take a video/picture of someone idling & turn it in if you could collect 1/2 of the ticket value for doing so. All but one person would.

Posted on: 2015/3/11 11:18
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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trambone wrote:
Wouldn't this violate the sixth amendment?


No. Why would you thnk so?

Posted on: 2015/3/11 9:58
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Wouldn't this violate the sixth amendment?

Posted on: 2015/3/11 3:30
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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I'd hit bus terminals, taxi ranks (many drivers step out for a smoke and allow their cars' to idle), school pick-up / drop off points, city tour buses, people warming up their cars in the morning (especially during winter with smoke fumes coming out from their exhausts), mechanic work shops.

I could make a small fortune as its only a 3 minute wait before cha-ching!

Remember its an environment and public health issue.

Then again, they could make it a role for the auxiliary police of NY to enforce!

In JC, why don't we get the parking cops to take on the role?

Posted on: 2015/3/11 1:50
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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JCMan8 wrote:
Reporting your neighbors is a tactic out of the Nazi's playbook. But I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if one could report cops who are idling their cars. No one is above the law, right?


Funny... Your post is probably the quickest manifestation of a proof of Goodwin's Law in a JCLIST thread, ever. Congrats.

But, in all seriousness, haven't we been down this road before? In the immediate days following 9/11, the federal government actively encouraged citizens to spy on their neighbors and report any "suspicious" activity. Of course, they also told us to stock up on duct tape as a precaution against airborne pathogens. :o

Posted on: 2015/3/11 1:29
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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JCMan8 wrote:
Reporting your neighbors is a tactic out of the Nazi's playbook. But I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if one could report cops who are idling their cars. No one is above the law, right?


How about the neighbor who's idling the car for 20min to 30min while he's in the house getting dressed, having coffee or whatever.

I agree about the police especially if there is no particular reason for the vehicle to be running.

Posted on: 2015/3/10 22:33
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Guess it's one way to cook or freeze your kids.

Posted on: 2015/3/10 20:47
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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There's a cop van that idles pretty much all day long in the parking lot of the old court house on Newark Ave, and then there's a cop car idling pretty much all day long in front of the new court house building also on Newark Ave, while the cop directs traffic?

Lets start with those two.

Posted on: 2015/3/10 20:42
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Re: Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Reporting your neighbors is a tactic out of the Nazi's playbook. But I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if one could report cops who are idling their cars. No one is above the law, right?

Posted on: 2015/3/10 20:41
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Idling pollution tickets to be issued based on Citizen videos. Why stop there?
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Imagine if you could submit dashcam video of all the illegal driving that happens in front you on any JC trip? It would bring in millions! Do it like red light cams, fines but no points. I'd nab 2 or 3 stop runners or turn lane abusers every time I got in the car!

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/v ... sh-bill-article-1.2143657

Posted on: 2015/3/10 20:34
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