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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Poor Yvonne must be having the biggest existential crisis of her life right now. A poor surface parking lot is being dug up...bad. But a big, beautiful, possibly unnecessary parking deck is going up in its place...that's great! But there's going to be awful, awful street level retail with a much needed grocer and create an enjoyable public plaza...terrible! And not to mention it could back up traffic in parts of the city...horrendous! What to do??

Posted on: 2016/7/14 22:35
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JCishome wrote:

The co-op owners in those "projects" will be able to buy and sell you, my friend. They're sitting on a gold mine.


Not me, but thanks for playing.

I'm sure they've appreciated over time - probably quite a bit, given how old they are and how much the area around them has improved. Getting 3x or 4x on your money is nice, but on a small amount it isn't "buying or selling" anyone. I know Tommy the slumlord has done well, but the average person isn't walking away with a truckload of cash. Either way, that place is a rathole.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 16:36
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tommyc_37 wrote:

I wonder when, if ever, Jersey City will realize that it's a city and start behaving that way, instead of constantly shoehorning itself into a car-first midwestern satellite city-suburb.


The proposed plan is very similar to the P Street WF near DuPont Circle in DC - which is dense and has a lot of carless residents. Parking is the cost of doing business in most cases with WF and let's be honest - as much as you and I would like to pretend otherwise - JC is still more car dependent than it needs to be. Just look at the ShopRite parking lot any weekend day.

I like the fact that the surface lot at the projects will disappear. Now, if they could just do the same with the buildings....


The co-op owners in those "projects" will be able to buy and sell you, my friend. They're sitting on a gold mine.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 16:23
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JcDevil wrote:
They are replacing the gigantic parking lot that currently exists with a parking garage on top of a Whole Foods and people are still whining? I guarantee that this was a requirement by the residents of Metropolis Towers - it's not like they're going to agree to a redevelopment plan that gets rid of their parking spaces permanently.


Seriously. We're replacing a surface lot with a deck, on top of retail. It is a pretty damn good solution.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 14:14
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I am not sure I buy into the idea that people are going to WF and leaving with carts teeming with groceries. From my experience in this area, as well as in suburbia in NJ and elsewhere, it seems like most WF purchases can be fit in four bags or less. Perhaps a result of the high prices. After all, they don't call it Whole Paycheck for nothing.


I live alone, so most of the time, my Whole Paycheck purchase does fit into just a bag or two. However, about once a month I do use the car to load up on stuff like the house brand Italian sparkling water (cheaper than Pellgrino by far). It's summer and I like watermelon, but there's no way I'm going to schlep a watermelon - or even half a melon - home on foot. They will also run pretty good sales on those pricey cans of San Marzano tomatoes, and that's when I stock up and buy an entire flat of those cans. I make my own sauce and always have some in the fridge. In fact I have marinara simmering on the stove right now.


Nice...! And, indeed, whenever they have the San Marzano on sale, I do buy too much of it. I used to buy the same sparkling water, until I switched to a Sodastream. (BTW, if anyone else in here uses Sodastream, you can get replacement cartridges at Bed Bath and Beyond for $10 if you use one of their $5 off $15 coupons that show up in the mailbox every month or so.)

Posted on: 2016/7/14 11:36
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bodhipooh wrote:
I am not sure I buy into the idea that people are going to WF and leaving with carts teeming with groceries. From my experience in this area, as well as in suburbia in NJ and elsewhere, it seems like most WF purchases can be fit in four bags or less. Perhaps a result of the high prices. After all, they don't call it Whole Paycheck for nothing.


I live alone, so most of the time, my Whole Paycheck purchase does fit into just a bag or two. However, about once a month I do use the car to load up on stuff like the house brand Italian sparkling water (cheaper than Pellgrino by far). It's summer and I like watermelon, but there's no way I'm going to schlep a watermelon - or even half a melon - home on foot. They will also run pretty good sales on those pricey cans of San Marzano tomatoes, and that's when I stock up and buy an entire flat of those cans. I make my own sauce and always have some in the fridge. In fact I have marinara simmering on the stove right now.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 11:18
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Definitely agree that replacing the surface lot with the parking deck is a huge improvement. And, of course, parking right on site is much more convenient than having to go across a busy street.

I am not sure I buy into the idea that people are going to WF and leaving with carts teeming with groceries. From my experience in this area, as well as in suburbia in NJ and elsewhere, it seems like most WF purchases can be fit in four bags or less. Perhaps a result of the high prices. After all, they don't call it Whole Paycheck for nothing. In any case, I am sure some smart people looked at the problem and determined a lot was necessary to make it viable. So, a lot it is. I am just surprised that so many people complain about lots in JC and this one seemed to have flown under the radar.

Lastly, for those who don't think this will make traffic worse in the area, I am simply without words. That intersection is a shitshow and it will only get worse. Already, most days in the afternoon, the traffic along Marin Blvd backs up at least two blocks in both traffic directions from Columbus Drive. Just wait until the hotel opens and then you will have cars trying to drop off guests at the curb, and others presumably loading and unloading (hopefully along the northern side of Columbus) and that corner will be a veritable mess.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 10:58
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tommyc_37 wrote:

I wonder when, if ever, Jersey City will realize that it's a city and start behaving that way, instead of constantly shoehorning itself into a car-first midwestern satellite city-suburb.


The proposed plan is very similar to the P Street WF near DuPont Circle in DC - which is dense and has a lot of carless residents. Parking is the cost of doing business in most cases with WF and let's be honest - as much as you and I would like to pretend otherwise - JC is still more car dependent than it needs to be. Just look at the ShopRite parking lot any weekend day.

I like the fact that the surface lot at the projects will disappear. Now, if they could just do the same with the buildings....
so true, shop rite on the weekend day is a madhouse.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 10:42
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tommyc_37 wrote:

I wonder when, if ever, Jersey City will realize that it's a city and start behaving that way, instead of constantly shoehorning itself into a car-first midwestern satellite city-suburb.


The proposed plan is very similar to the P Street WF near DuPont Circle in DC - which is dense and has a lot of carless residents. Parking is the cost of doing business in most cases with WF and let's be honest - as much as you and I would like to pretend otherwise - JC is still more car dependent than it needs to be. Just look at the ShopRite parking lot any weekend day.

I like the fact that the surface lot at the projects will disappear. Now, if they could just do the same with the buildings....

Posted on: 2016/7/14 10:29
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JcDevil wrote:
They are replacing the gigantic parking lot that currently exists with a parking garage on top of a Whole Foods and people are still whining? I guarantee that this was a requirement by the residents of Metropolis Towers - it's not like they're going to agree to a redevelopment plan that gets rid of their parking spaces permanently.


Exactly. How many years have people have been whining on JC List about not having a Whole Foods? And now that one is finally coming they whine about a parking deck that by all accounts seems to be tastefully designed. Let's face it, those acres of surface parking at Metropolis Towers are an eyesore and serve to isolate those buildings as islands unto themselves. The redevelopment is an improvement in the downtown streetscape and will no doubt lift the value of properties that have largely been left out of the real-estate boom. A discreet parking deck is a small trade-off, imho.
of course, some people aren't happy unless they are compalining about something

Posted on: 2016/7/14 10:11
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JcDevil wrote:
They are replacing the gigantic parking lot that currently exists with a parking garage on top of a Whole Foods and people are still whining? I guarantee that this was a requirement by the residents of Metropolis Towers - it's not like they're going to agree to a redevelopment plan that gets rid of their parking spaces permanently.


Exactly. How many years have people have been whining on JC List about not having a Whole Foods? And now that one is finally coming they whine about a parking deck that by all accounts seems to be tastefully designed. Let's face it, those acres of surface parking at Metropolis Towers are an eyesore and serve to isolate those buildings as islands unto themselves. The redevelopment is an improvement in the downtown streetscape and will no doubt lift the value of properties that have largely been left out of the real-estate boom. A discreet parking deck is a small trade-off, imho.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 9:53
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They are replacing the gigantic parking lot that currently exists with a parking garage on top of a Whole Foods and people are still whining? I guarantee that this was a requirement by the residents of Metropolis Towers - it's not like they're going to agree to a redevelopment plan that gets rid of their parking spaces permanently.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 9:44
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I think the parking deck there is a sensible solution that meets the needs of the residents and Whole Foods. To be viable, they probably need a critical mass of shoppers who don't just live in Downtown JC or within easy reach of mass transit. There are vast swaths of JC that are underserved by mass transit, and those people have cars. Plus Whole Foods is probably hoping to draw people in from surrounding communities like Bayonne and Hoboken. Also, have you seen parents shopping at a supermarket with a couple of kids in tow? Try getting a loaded shopping cart and two small kids across a busy four-lane street like Columbus. I love how people on JC List complain about reckless drivers on Columbus speeding off the Turnpike and creating hazardous conditions for pedestrians on one thread. But suddenly on another thread it's no big deal to ask people - with cumbersome shopping carts - to cross the same hazardous street because it doesn't fit with a certain dogmatic view. Let's just say for argument's sake that WF does use the parking garage at 50 Columbus. In all likelihood, they would have to lengthen the red light at that intersection to allow lots of people with shopping carts and kids enough time to cross safely. What does that do to traffic congestion in that area? I'm also picturing how much more difficult it would be to get all those shopping carts left at 50 Columbus back to WF.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 8:58
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I too hate the idea of the parking deck garage but the residents are losing their parking area and need a place to park their cars and it probably doesn't make sense to build an underground parking area since that area does flood .

Posted on: 2016/7/14 5:55
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Not to mention it's simply idiotic to think that people driving to a Whole Foods will park their car in a parking garage (paying for parking at a grocery store) located at least a block away. So you'll have a constant stream of people crossing the street with shopping carts to get to the garage(s)?


This is simply an exaggeration. The lot at 50 Columbus is literally across the street! Also, WF could offer parking validation for those with cars, as they do in other city locations, like in Portland. One could easily walk across the street with two, three or four bags to carry to one's car.


They have the bargaining power, and I'm sure this was their idea. They don't want their customers going down the street with carts. When most people go food shopping, they get more than 2-4 bags.


Most Americans in general, or most people who live in cities? Extremely different behavior sets.

I never have more than 3-4 bags because I live in a city and walk to the store. Instead of going every 2 weeks I go once a week.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 0:28
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Not to mention it's simply idiotic to think that people driving to a Whole Foods will park their car in a parking garage (paying for parking at a grocery store) located at least a block away. So you'll have a constant stream of people crossing the street with shopping carts to get to the garage(s)?


This is simply an exaggeration. The lot at 50 Columbus is literally across the street! Also, WF could offer parking validation for those with cars, as they do in other city locations, like in Portland. One could easily walk across the street with two, three or four bags to carry to one's car.


They have the bargaining power, and I'm sure this was their idea. They don't want their customers going down the street with carts. When most people go food shopping, they get more than 2-4 bags.

Posted on: 2016/7/14 0:15
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JCMan8 wrote:
Not to mention it's simply idiotic to think that people driving to a Whole Foods will park their car in a parking garage (paying for parking at a grocery store) located at least a block away. So you'll have a constant stream of people crossing the street with shopping carts to get to the garage(s)?


This is simply an exaggeration. The lot at 50 Columbus is literally across the street! Also, WF could offer parking validation for those with cars, as they do in other city locations, like in Portland. One could easily walk across the street with two, three or four bags to carry to one's car.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 22:41
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I have no idea about the parking situation in 50 columbus but I can say that every time I have parked in the grove path building you have to go almost to the roof to get a spot.... not sure where these rumors of it being unused come from.

perhaps at night its different but 9-5 working days it is pretty packed in there from my perspective


The lot at grove pointe is now more and more crowded during the day because they lowered their rates tremendously to spur usage. I have friends from Livingston who drive to Grove and park there because it is so cheap, that it is more convenient and cheaper for them to do that. In any case, the lot is never full. The one at 50 Columbus is also partly empty with plenty of spots.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 22:38
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Not to mention it's simply idiotic to think that people driving to a Whole Foods will park their car in a parking garage (paying for parking at a grocery store) located at least a block away. So you'll have a constant stream of people crossing the street with shopping carts to get to the garage(s)?

Opposition to the WF parking garage really exposes the anti-car at all costs people vs. those who actually want improved streetscapes and a better urban environment. As Dr. Nick said, the parking will be located above the ground floor, so pedestrians can still have an engaging commercial space. I don't like sidewalks filled with parking garages either, and this WF design is an excellent example of how to do it right.


I'm not opposed to the WF having its own parking lot, or to parking lots in general. How could I!? I own too many vehicles to not rely on lots.

My point is that there are two lots right across from this WF location (one closer than the other) and anyone coming to this WF location with a car could park at one of those two lots. Whole Foods could make this easy for people with cars by validating their tickets. They do this in other cities around the country. They do not need to have their own lot. At all.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 22:35
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Not to mention it's simply idiotic to think that people driving to a Whole Foods will park their car in a parking garage (paying for parking at a grocery store) located at least a block away. So you'll have a constant stream of people crossing the street with shopping carts to get to the garage(s)?

Opposition to the WF parking garage really exposes the anti-car at all costs people vs. those who actually want improved streetscapes and a better urban environment. As Dr. Nick said, the parking will be located above the ground floor, so pedestrians can still have an engaging commercial space. I don't like sidewalks filled with parking garages either, and this WF design is an excellent example of how to do it right.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 17:20
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I have no idea about the parking situation in 50 columbus but I can say that every time I have parked in the grove path building you have to go almost to the roof to get a spot.... not sure where these rumors of it being unused come from.

perhaps at night its different but 9-5 working days it is pretty packed in there from my perspective

Posted on: 2016/7/13 17:06
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third_street_hats wrote:
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Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?


Normally I would agree with you, but this is a grocery store.

Do you intend to see folks walking across those major roadways with shopping bags in tow or pushing their carts to these other lots and then returning those same carts to the store?


Um, yes? It's a dense as hell city and this location is on top of a subway station. There is no need for parking, especially with other (empty) garages on the same block.

How much parking is allotted for the Trader Joe's in Brooklyn Heights? That's a neighborhood with similar density and similar % of car ownership to DTJC.


You need to escape your bubble and realize that most people need cars, especially when going to the grocery store.

No chance in hell to get any kind of major grocer in DTJC without plenty of parking.


How do we know this was really up to the city? Perhaps planners did want to shelve parking or severely restrict it, but Whole Foods is very, very picky and has strict requirements for the places they pick. For example, the WF in Gowanus is relatively new and encircled by a huge surface level parking lot and that area has a comparable density to DTJC.

If WF pushes back against parking restrictions and walks, the city doesn't get its high end grocer and you still have a populous clamoring for better grocery options.

Personally, while I don't like all the extra parking, I don't mind it so much if it's well hidden and NOT on the ground floor, so we can still have an engaging commercial space. Too many projects have gone up with parking smack on the ground floor, forever eliminating the chance to have useful retail or something else there.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 15:40
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third_street_hats wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?


Normally I would agree with you, but this is a grocery store.

Do you intend to see folks walking across those major roadways with shopping bags in tow or pushing their carts to these other lots and then returning those same carts to the store?


Um, yes? It's a dense as hell city and this location is on top of a subway station. There is no need for parking, especially with other (empty) garages on the same block.

How much parking is allotted for the Trader Joe's in Brooklyn Heights? That's a neighborhood with similar density and similar % of car ownership to DTJC.


You need to escape your bubble and realize that most people need cars, especially when going to the grocery store.

No chance in hell to get any kind of major grocer in DTJC without plenty of parking.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 13:44
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Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?


I wonder when, if ever, Jersey City will realize that it's a city and start behaving that way, instead of constantly shoehorning itself into a car-first midwestern satellite city-suburb.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 13:10
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?


Normally I would agree with you, but this is a grocery store.

Do you intend to see folks walking across those major roadways with shopping bags in tow or pushing their carts to these other lots and then returning those same carts to the store?


Um, yes? It's a dense as hell city and this location is on top of a subway station. There is no need for parking, especially with other (empty) garages on the same block.

How much parking is allotted for the Trader Joe's in Brooklyn Heights? That's a neighborhood with similar density and similar % of car ownership to DTJC.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 13:08
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Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?


Normally I would agree with you, but this is a grocery store.

Do you intend to see folks walking across those major roadways with shopping bags in tow or pushing their carts to these other lots and then returning those same carts to the store?

Posted on: 2016/7/13 12:23
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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I do love creative architectural dreaming, but this idea is one of the most ludicrous I've ever read:

"One major obstacle of this walkway is that it dissects the existing eastern tower. In an effort to avoid walking around the building, the architect proposed having the walkway cut through the middle of the building by demolishing the current lobby. Pedestrians on the path could then walk right through the building."

And, not that it matters, but this presentation and several others have referred to the Metropolis Towers site as the first urban renewal project of its type. New York, Chicago and probably other cities had projects that pre-dated this one. Again, nobody cares except me.

Posted on: 2016/7/13 12:11
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Quote:

Seagull wrote:
Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/


I'm surprised no one has chimed in about the FIVE LEVELS of parking integrated into the building. That's a parking lot across from another (the one at 50 Columbus, which is usually mostly empty) and across the street diagonally from another parking lot (the one at Grove Pointe) that is usually somewhat empty, as well. I thought we were trying to move away from the idea of reliance on cars and towards more pedestrian friendly concepts.

In any case, I think it also speaks volumes that neither the Planning Board, nor Traffic Department, seem to think that traffic in the area is already a chaotic mess. WTF?

Posted on: 2016/7/13 11:36
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Jersey City Up Front has an article posted today regarding details of the planned Whole Foods space:

http://www.jerseycityupfront.com/neig ... ullboy-expands-food-menu/

*edit*

Link to the original article on Jersey Digs:

http://jerseydigs.com/whole-foods-met ... owers-jersey-city-update/

Posted on: 2016/7/13 10:40
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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Quote:

Voyeur wrote:
If you want to see what the City has planned for the Metropolis Towers site check out the below presentation. Content on Metropolis Towers begins at 17:50, though no mention is made of Whole Foods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWhOdnQ8NkI

Also, for an additional chuckle go to 24:10 to enjoy an execrable short video starring Fulop awkwardly plugging some sort of virtual reality planning app.

Prepare to crank the cringe factor up to 11!



I didn't get as far as 24:10, but this is a pretty interesting presentation (okay "interesting" in a nerdy way), and it's a great lesson for a lot of newcomers on what JC was like just a short time ago. Remember when the Morris Canal basin was littered with abandoned barges??

Posted on: 2016/6/10 9:35
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