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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Monroe wrote:
Of course, the party that always says there is no voter fraud-just ask them about Bush/Gore in Florida and they do a 180!
Florida had absolutely nothing to do with voter fraud and everything to do with the sham of a process that was the vote counting and recount. So no, even Florida would not have been stopped by Voter ID. Go on, keep trying.

Posted on: 2015/11/5 15:34
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Monroe wrote:
Of course, the party that always says there is no voter fraud-just ask them about Bush/Gore in Florida and they do a 180!

If you look at my lists, The Snopes piece is in relation to Florida.

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sullyx wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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People attempted to cheat and were caught. How is that proof that there is ongoing fraud? If anything, it proves that cheating the system is damn near impossible, even if the election is a low level city council position.


Nonsense, he wouldn't of committed the crime if he thought he would get caught. This is afterall Hudson County, one of the most corrupt political places in the entire USA.

They attempted fraud and were caught.

Regardless of the system, there will always be someone somewhere trying to cheat the system. To argue that people who tried to cheat and were caught is some sort of endemic problem is absurd.

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Monroe wrote:
Keep walking, nothing to see here.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ant_voter_fraud_in_n.html

A campaign manager makes a claim and suddenly its gospel?!

Sometimes people lose despite polling (see Kentucky Dems).

Posted on: 2015/11/5 14:30
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Posted on: 2015/11/4 20:38
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Pebble wrote:
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People attempted to cheat and were caught. How is that proof that there is ongoing fraud? If anything, it proves that cheating the system is damn near impossible, even if the election is a low level city council position.


Nonsense, he wouldn't of committed the crime if he thought he would get caught. This is afterall Hudson County, one of the most corrupt political places in the entire USA.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 20:36
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Of course, the party that always says there is no voter fraud-just ask them about Bush/Gore in Florida and they do a 180!

Posted on: 2015/11/4 20:31
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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People attempted to cheat and were caught. How is that proof that there is ongoing fraud? If anything, it proves that cheating the system is damn near impossible, even if the election is a low level city council position.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 20:23
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Posted on: 2015/11/4 20:08
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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JCMan8 wrote:
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shuklad wrote:
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richieveal wrote:
Voting should require your identification. It is idiotic not to.


agreed. dont understand why you shouldnt have to show it


Democrats don't want to lose votes.

I have absolutely no problem with providing ID to vote, if it's easy and free to get an ID. My problem is with all the things that accompany it, which are obvious efforts to suppress Democratic votes.
- Voter fraud is a non-existent problem. It's an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist
- Usually paired with shuttering of agencies where minorities or other Democratic voters live (see Alabama)
- Often paired with fees
- Often requires multiple other forms of ID which can be difficult to obtain (hell, even in NJ and NY it's a pain)
- Cuts in early voting or other voting hours Like Florida and NC
- Elimination of polling places, usually in Democratic strongholds
- Restrictions on voter registration drives
- Purges of voter rolls in Democratic supporting areas (like Georgia)


Like I said, I have no problem with the theory of requiring ID to vote. But I do have a problem with how transparent it is that it is about suppressing Democratic votes, and not about preventing voter fraud. When you have Republicans like Pennsylvania House Leader Mike Turzai saying that his proposed voting law changes would hand the election to Romney, it's pretty clear what the motivations are.


There's never any substantive response to ANY of these problems by supporters of voter ID beyond "yeah but why shouldn't you show an ID to prove who you are?" as they would prefer to just ignore the obvious voter suppression angle of these laws.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 18:37
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Yup. Good article on why the diehards on both sides are just partaking in silly, intellectual masturbation.


Gotta say, that article was a lot better than I thought it would be, coming from Ezra Klein. But we can't let it slip by that Ezra Klein is certainly not "above it all," which is the impression he likes to give off in the article.

I'm sure many people are not aware, but he pretty much proved that the liberal media is not some fringe conspiracy theory, as he actually secretly organized over 400 left leaning journalists from all corners of the media, along with professors so they could better coordinate and push their agenda (such as professors giving "expert" opinions). He did this for 4 years, from 2007 - 2010, only stopping when his activities were exposed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

And it would be pretty naive to believe it ended when he stopped his activities. So while the linked article does contain some wisdom, keep in mind it's coming from one of the biggest "progressive" ideologues in the country.

You need to seek help.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 18:25
Dos A Cero
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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it's pretty simple. there is an existing, long-standing even law that states you can not have a poll tax. until ID cards are distributed freely, you can not mandate that someone pays money to get something to vote.

simple solution? make id cards/drivers licenses/etc free and easy to obtain. then you can legally require id cards to vote.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 17:43
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Yup. Good article on why the diehards on both sides are just partaking in silly, intellectual masturbation.


Gotta say, that article was a lot better than I thought it would be, coming from Ezra Klein. But we can't let it slip by that Ezra Klein is certainly not "above it all," which is the impression he likes to give off in the article.

I'm sure many people are not aware, but he pretty much proved that the liberal media is not some fringe conspiracy theory, as he actually secretly organized over 400 left leaning journalists from all corners of the media, along with professors so they could better coordinate and push their agenda (such as professors giving "expert" opinions). He did this for 4 years, from 2007 - 2010, only stopping when his activities were exposed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

And it would be pretty naive to believe it ended when he stopped his activities. So while the linked article does contain some wisdom, keep in mind it's coming from one of the biggest "progressive" ideologues in the country.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 17:33
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Yup. Good article on why the diehards on both sides are just partaking in silly, intellectual masturbation.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 17:20
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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The noted liberals on Nate Silver's 538.com website recently explained how Democrats are "champions" at suppressing the vote. Showing the hypocrisy of their resistance to requiring voter IDs.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/h ... ocrats-suppress-the-vote/

Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:54
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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One of the most overlooked steps in problem solving is first identifying whether something is actually a problem.

Whether voter fraud exists is a much less relevant question than whether voter fraud influences the democratic process in a meaningful, counterproductive way. We then have to ask if an ID requirement would influence the process in a more meaningful, counterproductive way. Our election laws seem to imply ?no? to the first question, and ?yes? to the second.

Never mind that identity theft?an enormous problem that certainly does exist?probably wouldn?t be such a leap for a person intent on committing voter fraud.


Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:51
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:36
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Monroe wrote:
Citing any university in a political discussion is silly, given that professors vote and donate 90% Democrat!

http://www.nationalreview.com/article ... er-fraud-denial-john-fund

You follow up Breitbart with an NRO article?! Come on!

What's next? Mark Levin? How about articles from Sean Hannity?

Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:35
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Citing any university in a political discussion is silly, given that professors vote and donate 90% Democrat!

http://www.nationalreview.com/article ... er-fraud-denial-john-fund

Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:31
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Not only does it happen, but Democrats celebrate those that do it.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governme ... onored-by-ohio-democrats/

I give you actual research provided by law schools. I give you court cases. I give you articles on Forbes (hugely liberal!) and you give me Breit fucking Bart?!

I may have included a Media Matters article but at least I added places that have some legitimacy. Breitbart is a proven liar and fraud.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 16:18
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Not only does it happen, but Democrats celebrate those that do it.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governme ... onored-by-ohio-democrats/

Posted on: 2015/11/4 15:55
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Isn't it funny that the people who would benefit from voter fraud always deny its existence? And now California is automatically registering people to vote when they get a drivers license-and you can be an illegal alien and get a drivers license in CA. That won't lead to voter fraud?

It's not a matter of denying its existence. It's that it doesn't exist.

Washington Post: 7 papers, 4 government inquiries, 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth
Brennan Center at NYU Law: Myth of Voter Fraud
Bill Moyers: The myth of voter fraud
NY Times: Voter Fraud Is Rare, but Myth Is Widespread
Media Matters: Debunking The Conservative Media's 2014 Voter Fraud Horror Stories
Scholars Strategy Network: THE MISLEADING MYTH OF VOTER FRAUD IN AMERICAN ELECTIONS
Snopes: 2012 Voter Fraud
Forbes: Voter Fraud: A Massive, Anti-Democratic Deception

Posted on: 2015/11/4 15:28
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Isn't it funny that the people who would benefit from voter fraud always deny its existence? And now California is automatically registering people to vote when they get a drivers license-and you can be an illegal alien and get a drivers license in CA. That won't lead to voter fraud?

Posted on: 2015/11/4 15:07
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Jersey City perfected voter fraud under Hague. People six feet under are still voting here I'd bet.

If you'd bet, you'd lose. It's been proven in study after study.

Also, referencing a guy that hasn't been in office in over 60 years as some sort of evidence that crime is occurring now...

Posted on: 2015/11/4 14:37
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Jersey City perfected voter fraud under Hague. People six feet under are still voting here I'd bet.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 14:33
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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Because voter fraud is a fictitious problem, requiring IDs resolves no problems that actually exist.

I voted yesterday and wasn't required to show my ID.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 14:15
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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The problem with voter id laws exists in states that require very specific kinds of id and access to the source of the id is limited, either by hours of operation of the facility (see Alabama) or distance (think Texas). If a number of different kind of id were acceptable, a lot of the identified problems go away.

The facts are there are elderly or disabled people who can?t get to the places that issue IDs; there are people who can?t access their birth certificates because the documents no longer exist; there are people who don?t have drivers licenses because they can?t afford or just don't own a car.

Please read this piece, which provides two specific cases where, though no fault of their own, eligible voters cannot get valid voter IDs:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/us/ ... battles.html?ref=politics

This piece describes how the Wisconsin voter ID requirements will compel an 84-year-old woman who has been voting for 63 years to pay a fee for a birth certificate and an additional fee to correct a misspelling on her birth record. Although the story may exaggerate when it says the woman could end up paying $200, the point is this: why should she have to pay anything at all?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011 ... ay-200-to-get-a-voter-id/

Simply saying, as so many of you have, that ID cards are a fact of life does not make it so. It may be true for you and everyone you know, but studies and specific cases show that some people who have every right to vote will be disenfranchised by these voter ID laws, and for some people, they impose an unfair financial burden.

In the absence of a question of fraud, a comparison of signatures should be sufficient. That being said, I'm guessing that every volunteer here who asked for id did it in order to expedite looking up the name.

Posted on: 2015/11/4 13:27
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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sullyx wrote:
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shuklad wrote:
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richieveal wrote:
Voting should require your identification. It is idiotic not to.


agreed. dont understand why you shouldnt have to show it


well that's because it would disenfranchise millions of poor Americans that have no identification yet still manage to cash checks, fill prescriptions, buy alcohol or cigarettes, apply for wellfare, food stamps, oh wait, I just ruined that argument.


what a stupid argument. so by not requiring ID when you vote, you could walk in and vote for me ... do you agree this is a HUGE gap in our voting process ?

how about we take these millions of poor Americans and get them IDs ? i need an ID to buy alcohol and fill my prescription -- so why can't we get these folks IDs ? would it take an outreach program ? yes .. ultimately would we be in a better place if that happened ? yes

sometimes its worth doing the hard things rather than complaining about why we can't do them

Posted on: 2015/11/4 13:13
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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shuklad wrote:
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richieveal wrote:
Voting should require your identification. It is idiotic not to.


agreed. dont understand why you shouldnt have to show it


Democrats don't want to lose votes.

Posted on: 2015/11/3 22:04
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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shuklad wrote:
Quote:

richieveal wrote:
Voting should require your identification. It is idiotic not to.


agreed. dont understand why you shouldnt have to show it


well that's because it would disenfranchise millions of poor Americans that have no identification yet still manage to cash checks, fill prescriptions, buy alcohol or cigarettes, apply for wellfare, food stamps, oh wait, I just ruined that argument.

Posted on: 2015/11/3 21:35
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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richieveal wrote:
Voting should require your identification. It is idiotic not to.


agreed. dont understand why you shouldnt have to show it

Posted on: 2015/11/3 21:28
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Re: Take your ID to the polls
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sranade wrote:
I was asked for my drivers license when I voted this morning. Luckily, I had it with me. Even though it's illegal to request ID, play it safe and make sure to have it on you when you vote. My polling station is in Ward E, but who knows what is happening elsewhere.


Maybe you looked like you were going to vote Republican?

Seriously though, they weren't asking at GVV this morning that I noticed, but I can tell you from history, it would make things a lot quicker if they did ask for ID, the poll workers seem to have trouble with the alphabet even when you spell your last name for them.
seriously, every time I've gone to vote, the poll workers say "hmm I can't find your name" while staring directly at it, and I have to point it out to them. They just have poor vision and poor spelling skills, I think.

Posted on: 2015/11/3 20:47
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