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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
...
And the idea that the UK banned slavery because they feared a revolution highlights your total lack of British history. I suggest you stop shunning "White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books" when discussing European and American history.
...


Your WASP revisionist history is one-sided at best. Britain's fear was a primary driver, leading it to abolish slavery ahead of the US. I bet members of the West India lobby shared your "ethnocentrist" and "elitist" view - and were asking why their slaves "couldn't protest peacefully?".

1801 - Irish Act of Union - Britain's fear-inspired response to rebellions in Ireland, inspired in turn by US and French revolutions
1807 - Britain abolishes slave trade - with help of 100 pro-abolitionist Irish MPs
1831-2 - Jamaican slave rebellions - inspired by 1790-1801 Haiti slave revolution - "many terrified plantation owners were now ready to accept abolition, rather than risk a widespread war. Just one week after Sharpe's death, Parliament appointed a committee to consider ways of ending slavery"
1832 - Great Reform Act - British fear-inspired response to European revolutions in the 1830's to "produce enough reform to turn the threat of revolution" - "two-thirds of those who supported slavery were swept from power. The once powerful West India Lobby had lost its political strength"
1833 - Britain abolishes slavery

Sources:
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_111.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_113.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/resistance_54.html
http://www.worldhistory.knowledge4afr ... /modern/revolution-01.jsp
http://www.irish-society.org/home/hed ... y-events/the-act-of-union


LOL, you're off the deep end. The British had absolutely minimal fear of any external group save the French during that era. They were an absolute superpower and Britain vs France was the more archaic equivalent of the US vs USSR. The notion that they were terrified of slaves and therefore banned it rather than that the abolitionist POV simply won out democratically is ridiculous. And LOL @ my "WASP revisionism." Good one.

FYI - with regards to the Great Reform Act, I guess I can give you that one. Though of course it wasn't fear of the slaves, it was fear of their own citizens, which was a much more serious issue. That led to reform and that led to even more representation of the dominant views, which were again, more progressive in the UK than the US. The US, of course, had democracy the entire time but banning slavery took considerably longer anyway and sparked a massive civil war. Which, if you recall relates to my original point. The US did not kick the British out because we were so progressive and the British were evil slave owning elitist jerks. We were elitist slave owning jerks as well and everyone who came to power was in the domestic elite.


I never said Britain as a nation feared slaves, but that it's fear of revolution and rebellion drove it to abolition faster than in the US . British abolition wasn't about a bunch of white Wilberforces sitting around a campfire singing "Amazing Grace" and gaining enlightenment.

Simply put, Thomas Jefferson was the main architect of abolition in both the US and UK (and France for that matter) - and the US Declaration of Independence and US Constitution set the abolitionist dominoes falling.

In case you had forgotten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S ... claration_of_Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Posted on: 2014/9/26 15:10
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

devilsadvocate wrote:
...
And the idea that the UK banned slavery because they feared a revolution highlights your total lack of British history. I suggest you stop shunning "White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books" when discussing European and American history.
...


Your WASP revisionist history is one-sided at best. Britain's fear was a primary driver, leading it to abolish slavery ahead of the US. I bet members of the West India lobby shared your "ethnocentrist" and "elitist" view - and were asking why their slaves "couldn't protest peacefully?".

1801 - Irish Act of Union - Britain's fear-inspired response to rebellions in Ireland, inspired in turn by US and French revolutions
1807 - Britain abolishes slave trade - with help of 100 pro-abolitionist Irish MPs
1831-2 - Jamaican slave rebellions - inspired by 1790-1801 Haiti slave revolution - "many terrified plantation owners were now ready to accept abolition, rather than risk a widespread war. Just one week after Sharpe's death, Parliament appointed a committee to consider ways of ending slavery"
1832 - Great Reform Act - British fear-inspired response to European revolutions in the 1830's to "produce enough reform to turn the threat of revolution" - "two-thirds of those who supported slavery were swept from power. The once powerful West India Lobby had lost its political strength"
1833 - Britain abolishes slavery

Sources:
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_111.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_113.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/resistance_54.html
http://www.worldhistory.knowledge4afr ... /modern/revolution-01.jsp
http://www.irish-society.org/home/hed ... y-events/the-act-of-union


LOL, you're off the deep end. The British had absolutely minimal fear of any external group save the French during that era. They were an absolute superpower and Britain vs France was the more archaic equivalent of the US vs USSR. The notion that they were terrified of slaves and therefore banned it rather than that the abolitionist POV simply won out democratically is ridiculous. And LOL @ my "WASP revisionism." Good one.

FYI - with regards to the Great Reform Act, I guess I can give you that one. Though of course it wasn't fear of the slaves, it was fear of their own citizens, which was a much more serious issue. That led to reform and that led to even more representation of the dominant views, which were again, more progressive in the UK than the US. The US, of course, had democracy the entire time but banning slavery took considerably longer anyway and sparked a massive civil war. Which, if you recall relates to my original point. The US did not kick the British out because we were so progressive and the British were evil slave owning elitist jerks. We were elitist slave owning jerks as well and everyone who came to power was in the domestic elite.

Posted on: 2014/9/26 14:30
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Old-Skool-JC wrote:
Luckily, Darren Wilson was a "highly trained" officer, a veteran with six years experience, three of which were at a force disbanded due to racial tension and corruption issues.


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Yes, with no civilian complaints but awarded commendations during those 6 years.

Do we know the background of the black cop who killed the 14 year old black child in Louisiana earlier this week?

Is that story still on the news? I haven't seen Eric Holder or Al 'Tawana Brawley' Sharpton mention it, have you?

Posted on: 2014/9/26 11:07
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devilsadvocate wrote:
...
And the idea that the UK banned slavery because they feared a revolution highlights your total lack of British history. I suggest you stop shunning "White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books" when discussing European and American history.
...


Your WASP revisionist history is one-sided at best. Britain's fear was a primary driver, leading it to abolish slavery ahead of the US. I bet members of the West India lobby shared your "ethnocentrist" and "elitist" view - and were asking why their slaves "couldn't protest peacefully?".

1801 - Irish Act of Union - Britain's fear-inspired response to rebellions in Ireland, inspired in turn by US and French revolutions
1807 - Britain abolishes slave trade - with help of 100 pro-abolitionist Irish MPs
1831-2 - Jamaican slave rebellions - inspired by 1790-1801 Haiti slave revolution - "many terrified plantation owners were now ready to accept abolition, rather than risk a widespread war. Just one week after Sharpe's death, Parliament appointed a committee to consider ways of ending slavery"
1832 - Great Reform Act - British fear-inspired response to European revolutions in the 1830's to "produce enough reform to turn the threat of revolution" - "two-thirds of those who supported slavery were swept from power. The once powerful West India Lobby had lost its political strength"
1833 - Britain abolishes slavery

Sources:
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_111.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_113.html
http://abolition.e2bn.org/resistance_54.html
http://www.worldhistory.knowledge4afr ... /modern/revolution-01.jsp
http://www.irish-society.org/home/hed ... y-events/the-act-of-union

Posted on: 2014/9/26 10:03
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Luckily, Darren Wilson was a "highly trained" officer, a veteran with six years experience, three of which were at a force disbanded due to racial tension and corruption issues.


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Posted on: 2014/9/26 5:26
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South Carolina does the right thing.

A South Carolina state trooper was fired last week and arrested on Wednesday after a dashcam video showed him shooting an unarmed man during a routine traffic stop.

Former officer Sean Groubert, 31, is seen in the newly released video pulling over Levar Edward Jones. The clip, which was recorded on Groubert's dashcam on Sept. 4, shows Jones getting out of his vehicle at a gas station in Columbia.

Groubert asks Jones for his driver's license. As Jones reaches into his vehicle to retrieve it, Groubert shouts, "Get out of the car!"

More


Trigger happy cop for which the department is fully accountable for - Poor training, poor recruiting and poor screening of officers.

Do we recall Healy's drunk family member that killed members of one family and that he had a history of alcohol abuse and a previous firing from another PD before working for JCPD, but don't forget Healy's son that failed his psychological test but still got into the JCFD !

It wouldn't surprise me if this cop had political or family links in this police department.

Posted on: 2014/9/26 1:50
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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The amusing part is where after the racism card is played to insult opponents of, say, Obama and Holder-and your reply is 'well, the conservatives love Condi Rice (first black woman Sec of State) and Colin Powell (first black man Sec of State) what you get is them getting the 'Uncle Tom' card played!

Posted on: 2014/9/25 20:09
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
"Racism!!!" has become the Left's "Benghazi!!"


Yeah, except the bleating really got loud even before Obama's first term (even during the Democratic primaries). It hasn't died down for a moment since. The funny thing is that while it was promised that a black POTUS would result in better race relations it seems that the exact opposite has happened.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 20:03
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Not sure we're on the same page. I'm saying the media will claim he resigned because too many racist factors in government, media blah blah blah forced him out.

You know, from the playbook.

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JCMan8 wrote:
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nyrgravey9 wrote:
In a slightly related note, countdown until Eric Holder's resignation is blamed on racism in 3...2...1...


Considering Eric Holder was very racist himself, it would be appalling but not surprising for some to say this.

He was one of the worst Attorney Generals of all time so his resignation is great news for the country. Too bad it isn't effective immediately.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 20:00
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In a slightly related note, countdown until Eric Holder's resignation is blamed on racism in 3...2...1...


Considering Eric Holder was very racist himself, it would be appalling but not surprising for some to say this.

He was one of the worst Attorney Generals of all time so his resignation is great news for the country. Too bad it isn't effective immediately.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 19:34
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"Racism!!!" has become the Left's "Benghazi!!"

Posted on: 2014/9/25 19:18
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In a slightly related note, countdown until Eric Holder's resignation is blamed on racism in 3...2...1...

Posted on: 2014/9/25 19:16
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In other news its the same small dick, racist, circle jerk but just a different day. Carry on.


This is how I view the liberal side here, yes.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 18:36
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user1111 wrote:
South Carolina does the right thing.

A South Carolina state trooper was fired last week and arrested on Wednesday after a dashcam video showed him shooting an unarmed man during a routine traffic stop.

Former officer Sean Groubert, 31, is seen in the newly released video pulling over Levar Edward Jones. The clip, which was recorded on Groubert's dashcam on Sept. 4, shows Jones getting out of his vehicle at a gas station in Columbia.

Groubert asks Jones for his driver's license. As Jones reaches into his vehicle to retrieve it, Groubert shouts, "Get out of the car!"

More


I don't think anyone disagrees with this result in this case.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 18:35
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South Carolina does the right thing.

A South Carolina state trooper was fired last week and arrested on Wednesday after a dashcam video showed him shooting an unarmed man during a routine traffic stop.

Former officer Sean Groubert, 31, is seen in the newly released video pulling over Levar Edward Jones. The clip, which was recorded on Groubert's dashcam on Sept. 4, shows Jones getting out of his vehicle at a gas station in Columbia.

Groubert asks Jones for his driver's license. As Jones reaches into his vehicle to retrieve it, Groubert shouts, "Get out of the car!"

More

Posted on: 2014/9/25 18:00
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In other news its the same small dick, racist, circle jerk but just a different day. Carry on.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 17:30
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greenville wrote:
The Michael Brown shooting to me should not have been the big a deal since he was fighting a cop. Something like the following is something that you can understandably get mad over.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice ... ting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


That looks like a bad shooting. Thankfully the driver is ok.

In another tragedy, the sprint car driver accidentally killed by NASCAR star Tony Stewart was found to have enough marijuana in his system to cause 'significant impairment'. If you recall, he charged Stewart to confront him after an accident in a rage.

Didn't Brown have marijuana in his system? Was it enough to cause 'significant impairment'?


Ssshhh, Baby Brown was executed by a racist cop. He was about to attend college and in fact was telling people about Jesus minutes before he was brutally murdered.

Don't desecrate his memory!

Posted on: 2014/9/25 16:35
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What I'm saying is that in your arguments, you're treating the shooting as if it exists in a vacuum. We all wish it were that simple. Unfortunately it's not.

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AlexC wrote:
No of course not, because there is no history of Black Cops brutalizing Black Folks. What part of this argument are you missing? It's about history and not one particular incident.

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Monroe wrote:
14 year black child killed by cop-a black cop. Will there be outrage over this?

http://news.yahoo.com/louisiana-14-ol ... ltercation-043911512.html


Ah, so the goal posts have changed. Police brutality against black Americans (including 14 year old childen) only is important when it's a white cop. Got it!

Posted on: 2014/9/25 16:33
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The Michael Brown shooting to me should not have been the big a deal since he was fighting a cop. Something like the following is something that you can understandably get mad over.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice ... ting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


That looks like a bad shooting. Thankfully the driver is ok.

In another tragedy, the sprint car driver accidentally killed by NASCAR star Tony Stewart was found to have enough marijuana in his system to cause 'significant impairment'. If you recall, he charged Stewart to confront him after an accident in a rage.

Didn't Brown have marijuana in his system? Was it enough to cause 'significant impairment'?

Posted on: 2014/9/25 16:31
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The Michael Brown shooting to me should not have been the big a deal since he was fighting a cop. Something like the following is something that you can understandably get mad over.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice ... ting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Posted on: 2014/9/25 16:07
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Monroe wrote:
“We cannot promise a federal indictment, but we can promise a federal investigation,” she said. (She being Christy Lopez of the Justice Department).

The mob didn't agree and wants a lynching of Officer Wilson before the facts of the cast have been determined.


The peaceful Ferguson residents engaged in more looting, attacking police, and attempted arson simply after their own stupidity caused a memorial to Big Brown to be burned down.

What do you think they'll do if Officer Wilson either isn't charged or gets off?


Getting really sick of us appeasing a bunch of criminals. They should be shot/arrested, not coddled.

In other news, Holder just resigned. This is obviously a big event here.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 15:40
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“We cannot promise a federal indictment, but we can promise a federal investigation,” she said. (She being Christy Lopez of the Justice Department).

The mob didn't agree and wants a lynching of Officer Wilson before the facts of the cast have been determined.


The peaceful Ferguson residents engaged in more looting, attacking police, and attempted arson simply after their own stupidity caused a memorial to Big Brown to be burned down.

What do you think they'll do if Officer Wilson either isn't charged or gets off?

Posted on: 2014/9/25 14:41
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...
You can't compare colonization and outright slavery. Colonization was about ownership of resources in places like Africa. Slavery was outright ownership of people. While you can say both are bad, they are nowhere near equally bad.
...


When the colonization enslaves a nation, yes you can definitely compare slavery and colonization. Nowhere near equally bad? How about the genocide of 1.8 billion people in India under British rule? Also google what went on in Sri Lanka, South Africa, Kenya, Rhodesia, Australia, Tasmania and Ireland to name a few - after slavery was abolished in Britain and well into the 20th century.

It was the American Revolution and US constitution that ignited the abolitionist debate, the US Quaker movement that took the fight to both the US and Britain. Britain only got there first through fear and circumstance, not enlightenment - fear of further US/French-style revolutions at home and in their colonies - circumstance granting Britain access to virtually free labor like from the Indian sub-continent. Britain didn't need to enslave individuals, when it had plenty of enslaved nations to do it's bidding.

Think you need to take a look beyond your White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books when trying to give history lessons.

http://abolition.nypl.org/print/abolition/


The Quakers were indeed abolitionists, and the revolution did spark debate about what exactly "all men are created equal" actually means. But it was neither a significant driver of the revolution nor did they ultimately decide that "all men" included non-whites. And the idea that the UK banned slavery because they feared a revolution highlights your total lack of British history. I suggest you stop shunning "White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books" when discussing European and American history.

Colonization is a potentially lengthy conversation sidetrack but sufficient to say that the 1.8 billion figure is highly controversial. This isn't like say, the holocaust where you can say "oh, they were put into a concentration camp and murdered, so for every body there we can attribute to the Nazis." It includes events like numerous famines which back then were common worldwide, and particularly in the uncivilized countries that were targeted for colonization. Some worthwhile reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_India

As for "almost free labor", I will challenge you to look around you right now at the various manufactured goods you use, including the computer or phone you're staring at as you read this. How much do you suppose the laborer that created your technological marvel made? Almost nothing, particularly when you consider it as a percentage of what you paid for it. The real reason colonization stopped is that modern trade made it obsolete and inefficient from a cost perspective. Why pay for running a country when you can build factories, manipulate governments, pay workers almost nothing and if everything goes to hell just leave and move somewhere else that is even cheaper?


Posted on: 2014/9/25 14:22
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Why can't we wait for the investigation and Court Case before we have a public lynching. Trial by media and JClisters is stupid and rumours, opinions and myths on this particular incident are running wild.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 14:19
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“We cannot promise a federal indictment, but we can promise a federal investigation,” she said. (She being Christy Lopez of the Justice Department).

The mob didn't agree and wants a lynching of Officer Wilson before the facts of the cast have been determined.

Posted on: 2014/9/25 14:03
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Archie Bunker types will never get it.



FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) — Department of Justice investigators on Wednesday heard one story after another about police harassment and brutality in Ferguson, the suburban St. Louis city where 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer last month. At least 300 people crammed into a room at St. Louis Community College’s Florissant Valley campus for the meeting hosted by thedepartment’s Civil Rights Division. The investigators were seeking direct input from residents who live in and near Ferguson. “We go in and we try to figure out: ‘Is (misconduct) happening? Is it a pattern? Is it violating the constitution? And most importantly, how do we fix it?’” said Christy Lopez, deputy counsel of the Civil Rights Division. There was no public comment period but tables were set up for people to share their concerns privately with DOJ officials. And investigators got an earful. Brandon Smith, 28, told investigators he moved away from Ferguson four years ago because he was constantly harassed. He said he was once cited for “manner of walking in roadway” and jailed on $1,000 bond for the misdemeanor. He said he posted bond and never got the money back.


Yolanda Lanns, 43, said her family was at a store where a disturbance broke out. Police assumed her husband was part of the fracas “because he was black,” used a stun gun on him three times and took him to jail, Lanns said. She said he had nothing to do with the fight. Joyce Washington, 55, of neighboring Cool Valley, said all three of her adults sons have been pulled over repeatedly in Ferguson.

“It’s just because they’re young, black men,” Washington said. “Now they won’t drive through Ferguson. I want to know why our children have to take alternative routes to get to our destinations.”
Ferguson, with 21,000 residents, is two-thirds black, but only three of the 53 police officers are African-American.
The department’s investigation of Ferguson police is focused on whether officers there use excessive force; whether constitutional rights of some residents are violated by traffic stops, searches and arrests; and if police engage in discriminatory practices.
Police Chief Tom Jackson was not at the meeting but has said he welcomes the investigation.
The meeting followed new unrest in Ferguson. Fire destroyed a memorial to Brown at the site of the shooting early Tuesday, generating new anger among some residents. Police say the cause of the fire is under investigation.
The fire may have been the spark for a violent protest Tuesday night. One store was damaged by looting, another was set on fire, and police were attacked with rocks and bottles. Two officers suffered injuries when they were hit by rocks. It was the latest of several incidents of unrest since Brown, who was black and unarmed, was shot to death by white police officer Darren Wilson on Aug. 9. A state grand jury is weighing if Wilson will face criminal charges, but a decision isn’t expected until mid-October at the earliest. Civil rights investigators are also looking at St. Louis County police, the county’s juvenile justice system and policing at schools in the Ferguson area. Tables were also set up at the meeting for concerns in those areas. Investigators did not say how long they expect the probe to take. Lopez said some changes will be recommended before it is complete. For example, she said residents complained that officers too often don’t wear name plates, making it difficult to point out those suspected of wrongdoing. Jackson assured the division that officers will immediately start wearing name tags.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/ ... ferguson-police/16192233/

Posted on: 2014/9/25 13:51
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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AlexC wrote:
No of course not, because there is no history of Black Cops brutalizing Black Folks. What part of this argument are you missing? It's about history and not one particular incident.

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Monroe wrote:
14 year black child killed by cop-a black cop. Will there be outrage over this?

http://news.yahoo.com/louisiana-14-ol ... ltercation-043911512.html


Ah, so the goal posts have changed. Police brutality against black Americans (including 14 year old childen) only is important when it's a white cop. Got it!

Posted on: 2014/9/25 10:18
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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Posted on: 2014/9/25 9:29
My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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You can't compare colonization and outright slavery. Colonization was about ownership of resources in places like Africa. Slavery was outright ownership of people. While you can say both are bad, they are nowhere near equally bad.
...


When the colonization enslaves a nation, yes you can definitely compare slavery and colonization. Nowhere near equally bad? How about the genocide of 1.8 billion people in India under British rule? Also google what went on in Sri Lanka, South Africa, Kenya, Rhodesia, Australia, Tasmania and Ireland to name a few - after slavery was abolished in Britain and well into the 20th century.

It was the American Revolution and US constitution that ignited the abolitionist debate, the US Quaker movement that took the fight to both the US and Britain. Britain only got there first through fear and circumstance, not enlightenment - fear of further US/French-style revolutions at home and in their colonies - circumstance granting Britain access to virtually free labor like from the Indian sub-continent. Britain didn't need to enslave individuals, when it had plenty of enslaved nations to do it's bidding.

Think you need to take a look beyond your White Anglo Saxon Protestant history books when trying to give history lessons.

http://abolition.nypl.org/print/abolition/

Posted on: 2014/9/25 8:58
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Re: Black community responds to police shooting of unarmed black teenager by looting businesses
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No of course not, because there is no history of Black Cops brutalizing Black Folks. What part of this argument are you missing? It's about history and not one particular incident.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
14 year black child killed by cop-a black cop. Will there be outrage over this?

http://news.yahoo.com/louisiana-14-ol ... ltercation-043911512.html

Posted on: 2014/9/25 2:50
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