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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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heights wrote:
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creativeconquests wrote:
I don't rent. I wish I did. I've also experienced corruption with the city first hand. It has cost me thousands. My taxes exceed $9K and counting this year. I apparently have an abatement, so over $11K when that expires, maybe even closer to 12-13K/year. My neighbors own an entire brownstone, taxes haven't been assessed in years (although property worth over a million) and they pay just over $3K/year. I own a condo.

I love it ! Years ago the city reaped one tax check per building, now with all of these condos it is one tax check...per window well at least per apartment. $9 grand are you nuts ?? Some homes in J.C. are assesed at under a hundred grand. You must be living in the Taj Mahal and even there the taxes are lower than J.C. or at least what you are paying.


Yes, yes I am nuts.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 22:17
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Yes, but the point is, the preschool is funded by the state. The majority of towns in NJ do not have free preschools, but Hoboken does because it is deemed an Abbott district. IMO, Hoboken shouldn't be an Abbott district at all.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 20:40
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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snowflake20 wrote:
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
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snowflake20 wrote:
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ThirdGrove wrote:
Well two points:


The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.


The Supreme Court found the Abbott funding to be unconstitutional. Maybe you are right about the formula, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and yanked in some towns. I still do this day do not understand why Hoboken is an Abbott district. Nice that some of those yuppies get free daycare.


Most of the Hoboken yuppies do not have school age children. When they do, they move to the suburbs. The ones that stay usually send their kids to private school.


Have you been to Hoboken lately? It is all families with toddlers. Free pre-K starts at 3. There are plenty of people with school aged and preschool aged children in Hoboken and many do put their children in the Abbott preschool.


I do not mean pre-school. I mean from 1st grade forward. About 12% of Hoboken households have children under the age of 18.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 20:37
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
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snowflake20 wrote:
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ThirdGrove wrote:
Well two points:


The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.


The Supreme Court found the Abbott funding to be unconstitutional. Maybe you are right about the formula, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and yanked in some towns. I still do this day do not understand why Hoboken is an Abbott district. Nice that some of those yuppies get free daycare.


Most of the Hoboken yuppies do not have school age children. When they do, they move to the suburbs. The ones that stay usually send their kids to private school.


Have you been to Hoboken lately? It is all families with toddlers. Free pre-K starts at 3. There are plenty of people with school aged and preschool aged children in Hoboken and many do put their children in the Abbott preschool.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 20:26
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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ThirdGrove wrote:
Well two points:


The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.


The Supreme Court found the Abbott funding to be unconstitutional. Maybe you are right about the formula, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and yanked in some towns. I still do this day do not understand why Hoboken is an Abbott district. Nice that some of those yuppies get free daycare.


Most of the Hoboken yuppies do not have school age children. When they do, they move to the suburbs. The ones that stay usually send their kids to private school.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 20:18
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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ThirdGrove wrote:
OK, this is a bit off topic. ...

My beloved idea of municipal consolidation is a lot more likely to pass that any school changes due to unions and support among politicians for the status quo. So we will see schools change when pigs fly.


Thanks for the explanation. I don't think this discussion is off topic since the quality, or lack thereof, of our school system is a large part of the reason that many of the new transplants to JC don't stay for the long run. Hamilton Park is currently over-run by toddlers, but I'm guessing that many of these families will leave once their children become school-age. And the problems with our schools are of a piece with the problems that the OP is confronted with.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:55
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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OK, this is a bit off topic. Firstly, the Abbott decision was never overturned. It was ruled that Gov Corzines new school funding formula fit into the "spirit" of abbott. His funding provided state aid per pupil as oppossed to per district aid.

Second, I'll explain the Abbott decision to the best of my abilities.
The New Jersey State Constitution provides that the State must provide an adequate education to all children. The state provides that education through locally run school boards preexisting the current constitution (1946). The problem arose as urban districts proved incapable of meeting state standards to educate. They sued that the state must rectify the discrepancies. Lots of quantifiable discrepancies were based on funding. A teacher in Montclair was paid 20,000 more than in Newark, etc thus they attracted higher quality educators (these are the justifications, don't kill the messenger). Every court through the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Abbott districts, and the Supreme Court has ruled 13 times since in favor of Abbott with liberal and conservative justices alike. It's really clear wording in the constitution.

Any alternatives? Well, the state could take over the district as it did in Camden (which turned out awfully). They can impose a statewide school tax and distribute by pupil which would be totally politically infeasible. There's the current method which distributes by pupil but produces, largely, the same results.

My beloved idea of municipal consolidation is a lot more likely to pass that any school changes due to unions and support among politicians for the status quo. So we will see schools change when pigs fly.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:46
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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On the other hand, could the Abbott funding partially explain the under-performance of the JC school system: if they were more successful, they might lose some of their funding? As T-Bird pointed out, $123 million is a lot of money.


There is a study that has shown that the Abbott program doesn't work. Of course, no one wants to admit this and they just want to throw more and more taxpayer money to the poor, under performing districts. Because just throwing money at people solves everything.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:36
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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creativeconquests wrote:
I don't rent. I wish I did. I've also experienced corruption with the city first hand. It has cost me thousands. My taxes exceed $9K and counting this year. I apparently have an abatement, so over $11K when that expires, maybe even closer to 12-13K/year. My neighbors own an entire brownstone, taxes haven't been assessed in years (although property worth over a million) and they pay just over $3K/year. I own a condo.

I love it ! Years ago the city reaped one tax check per building, now with all of these condos it is one tax check...per window well at least per apartment. $9 grand are you nuts ?? Some homes in J.C. are assesed at under a hundred grand. You must be living in the Taj Mahal and even there the taxes are lower than J.C. or at least what you are paying.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:34
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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stani: The property taxes in the suburbs are high because the suburbs depend on residential property taxes for almost all of their governmental expenses.
The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.


Why couldn't the state Supreme Court decision be over-ruled by a new set of state Supreme Court justices? As you said, they recently decided to change the formula.

On the other hand, could the Abbott funding partially explain the under-performance of the JC school system: if they were more successful, they might lose some of their funding? As T-Bird pointed out, $123 million is a lot of money. Subsidies are great: they lock in the behavior you're trying to get rid of.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:33
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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ThirdGrove wrote:
Well two points:


The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.


The Supreme Court found the Abbott funding to be unconstitutional. Maybe you are right about the formula, but it certainly needs to be looked at, and yanked in some towns. I still do this day do not understand why Hoboken is an Abbott district. Nice that some of those yuppies get free daycare.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:26
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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stani wrote:
And the amount of the subsidy is huge (I don't have the exact figure right now). That would get ugly. So if you think there's any likelihood of that happening, you'd be selling JC and buying the burbs.


The school portion of this subsidy is $123 million. For reference, the property tax increase that has people storming city hall is $40 million.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:04
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Well two points:

creativeconquests: Your specific situation sounds awful, and I'm sorry it happened to you. I know the average one-bedroom condo in New York has a property tax price tag of about 4,000 (which is much less than what you are paying), but I'm not sure how the city/state income tax would even that out for you. That said, the average price for a condo in any borough is much higher so I can't attest for how it would have affected the mortgage you pay, etc. So on some positive note, perhaps this investment may have been more cost effective than any others in NYC. And, Reassessment will come one day for your neighbors. I think it's criminal what some pay because their houses were assessed before a peak. Perhaps, you can seek tax cuts by trying to have your property assess at a lower value.

If you do believe you're paying to much, you should consider renting out your property. Judging by the taxes, it must be a nice place. You'd only need to get 750+mortgage a month for it to make up a 9000 property tax bill, and you'd have an tax deductible investment.

stani: The property taxes in the suburbs are high because the suburbs depend on residential property taxes for almost all of their governmental expenses.
The Abbott funding is a mandate by the Supreme Court that will not change. The only aspect that may change is the formula. They might allocate funds based on the number of disadvantaged pupils. At the end of the day, we have enough disadvantaged you that the funding will never change significantly.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 19:02
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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I am sort of confused whether you rent or not?

That said, Jersey City is not expensive relative to our region for the amenities we receive. We are close to the largest, best paying job markets in the country. Meanwhile, we don't have to pay the taxes one charged in New York. In Jersey City, you pay state income tax, a discounted sales tax, and property taxes. In New York, you pay state income tax, city income tax, property tax, and sales tax. Not to mention, Jersey City is much cheaper for the access. 400,000 dollars will get you an apartment in Manhattan (below 110th Street), or a nice apartment in Brooklyn and Queens. Meanwhile, 400,000 will afford you a house in Jersey City or a FANTASTIC apartment.

I am not making excuses for political corruption. I think our politicians are awful and our tax abatement structure is horrendous which leads to these higher taxes. However, the bulk of our taxes are linked to healthcare and pension costs. Virtually every city and state in the country negotiates union contracts that include these high cost benefits. Not matter where you move, you will always end up paying hire taxes every year. It's how the system is set up. That doesn't make it right, but there's little you can do to avoid it.

If you live in the New York area, and you want to live in an urban area; I haven't found a better place that Jersey City. If you find something better, share it with all of us so that we can all seek a better life.


I'd like to add that property taxes in the NJ suburbs close to New York are about twice what they are here for equally priced properties. The primary reason the suburban taxes are so high is because they're forced by court order to subsidize the poor, urban areas of the state, Jersey City being one of them. While this situation has lasted for a long time, it would make sense to me that at some point in the future, it would end. This would mean that places like our fair city would no longer receive the subsidies and would have to make up the shortfall with more property taxes. And the amount of the subsidy is huge (I don't have the exact figure right now). That would get ugly. So if you think there's any likelihood of that happening, you'd be selling JC and buying the burbs.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 18:39
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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I don't rent. I wish I did. I've also experienced corruption with the city first hand. It has cost me thousands. My taxes exceed $9K and counting this year. I apparently have an abatement, so over $11K when that expires, maybe even closer to 12-13K/year. My neighbors own an entire brownstone, taxes haven't been assessed in years (although property worth over a million) and they pay just over $3K/year. I own a condo.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 18:22
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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I am sort of confused whether you rent or not?

That said, Jersey City is not expensive relative to our region for the amenities we receive. We are close to the largest, best paying job markets in the country. Meanwhile, we don't have to pay the taxes one charged in New York. In Jersey City, you pay state income tax, a discounted sales tax, and property taxes. In New York, you pay state income tax, city income tax, property tax, and sales tax. Not to mention, Jersey City is much cheaper for the access. 400,000 dollars will get you an apartment in Manhattan (below 110th Street), or a nice apartment in Brooklyn and Queens. Meanwhile, 400,000 will afford you a house in Jersey City or a FANTASTIC apartment.

I am not making excuses for political corruption. I think our politicians are awful and our tax abatement structure is horrendous which leads to these higher taxes. However, the bulk of our taxes are linked to healthcare and pension costs. Virtually every city and state in the country negotiates union contracts that include these high cost benefits. Not matter where you move, you will always end up paying hire taxes every year. It's how the system is set up. That doesn't make it right, but there's little you can do to avoid it.

If you live in the New York area, and you want to live in an urban area; I haven't found a better place that Jersey City. If you find something better, share it with all of us so that we can all seek a better life.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 17:47
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Um, how did this thread take a turn like this? Sigh. Thanks to those who kept it on the topic. You are right about contemplating renting. What I'm doing is pretending I rent my home right now. I like the landlord. They fix things when I need it done. The Strata Council can be douches but I let my landlord deal with them. ;)

Posted on: 2010/2/5 14:52
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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teacher wrote:
thank you T-Bird. I just cannot understand why he/she was so pissed at me for railing against people that want to destroy the country. He/She wants to call my superintendent and get me fired.

The enemies of this country have more free speech rights/outlets, than people like me.

I am on the lookout for anti-American behaviour in JC and have the FBI number in my phone to call.

You're great Teacher, you get an apple. Years ago those that were anti American were suspect in the eye of the United States government as well as the people. How dare they try to stifle you for being a proud American.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 14:42
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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thank you T-Bird. I just cannot understand why he/she was so pissed at me for railing against people that want to destroy the country. He/She wants to call my superintendent and get me fired.

The enemies of this country have more free speech rights/outlets, than people like me.

I am on the lookout for anti-American behaviour in JC and have the FBI number in my phone to call.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 14:04
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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ha ha ha. i realized after i wrote it, maybe some people wouldn't get the Animal House joke (this board is sometimes like Animal House)!

neverleft - thanks for posting the clip!


Posted on: 2010/2/5 13:59
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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[quote]
07310 wrote:
I thought the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor

No it was the Germans!!
short version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI
long version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47bpOCTcaY&NR=1
[quote]
CapnJon wrote:
don't give up! "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!" we too are frustrated and scared about the coming tax issues. we too don't like the corruption issues. we too don't like kids killing kids. but, we love jersey city.[quote]


Thank you for refreshing my memory, and a vote of thanks to CapnJon as well for initiating the pun.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 9:44
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Perhaps the solution is to sell your place and rent. The market hasn't gone down as much here as in many parts of the country and renting remains much cheaper than owning. If you feel that you would be happiest here if only you were a renter; why leave?

I've rented here for going on 10 years and JC is probably the best place to live while saving money and working in the city. The problems that you alluded to seem to me part of a bigger problem of an overly powerful and invasive state and local government in the NYC metro area. That's the reason I never considered owning here.

FWIW, my lodestone for trusting governments is how they treat Second Amendment rights (as a proxy for individual rights). It has served me well and I'm confident that it will continue to do so when I move.

Quote:

creativeconquests wrote:
I would stay if I was a renter. But as of now I will be paying huge property taxes and dealing with the city as an owner in JC is by far the most frustrating experience I\'ve ever had in my lifetime. If I had the time and energy to share the stories, I\'m sure other homeowners could tell me the same. The city does not work for the taxpayer. It\'s beyond shocking. I have experienced with the city (particularly the permit and codes department) crooked behavior, illegal situations, contradictions of huge proportions, negligence at the risk of myself and my family.

If only I was renting I\'d love this city and let go of the feeling I need to depend on the city in some manner. I\'d use the area for it\'s nice parks, location to Manhattan, play with the people I\'ve met, I\'d invest in it without putting my blood, sweat and money of huge proportions. You caught me on a bad day, sigh. I\'ve never run from anything but this is a fight that gives me so much fatigue and angst, I\'d rather sell and live somewhere else. I\'m looking.

Posted on: 2010/2/5 3:44
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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I have met Webmaster on several occasions and can attest that he is not a Radical Muslim.

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teacher wrote:
?Blind Sheikh? Omar Abdul-Rahman and at least one of his associates. The mailboxes are located in Jersey City, New Jersey, four doors down from the mosque where Abdul-Rahman was imam in the early 1990s.
Radical Muslims in JC make me want to move, People that want to destroy freedom. Webmaster? Does this include you?

Posted on: 2010/2/5 3:19
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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?Blind Sheikh? Omar Abdul-Rahman and at least one of his associates. The mailboxes are located in Jersey City, New Jersey, four doors down from the mosque where Abdul-Rahman was imam in the early 1990s.
Radical Muslims in JC make me want to move, People that want to destroy freedom. Webmaster? Does this include you?

Posted on: 2010/2/5 3:07
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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07310 wrote:

I thought the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor



No it was the Germans!!


short version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI


long version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q47bpOCTcaY&NR=1

Posted on: 2010/2/4 21:55
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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Posted on: 2010/2/4 21:51
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
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CapnJon wrote:
don't give up! "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!" we too are frustrated and scared about the coming tax issues. we too don't like the corruption issues. we too don't like kids killing kids. but, we love jersey city.


I thought the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor

Posted on: 2010/2/4 21:48
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Well Said CapnJon ...., like you I looked into moving elsewhere such as the suburbs, but knew with working in NYC and working monster hours, I would hate the commute. I then looked into Hoboken, while I have spent time going out in Hoboken, just not crazy about that town, it lost it's grittiness and diversity. JC has plenty of diversity and history too. While we do have our issues and I have shouted about them many times, issues that I believe we will overcome as more residents get involved as they showed at the last City Council meeting.
Don't give up on Jersey City, giving up is always the easiest thing to do, help make a difference in JC. I hope you can stick it out.

JRL- Born & Raised in JC


Quote:

CapnJon wrote:
don't give up! "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!" we too are frustrated and scared about the coming tax issues. we too don't like the corruption issues. we too don't like kids killing kids. but, we love jersey city.

the people who try to paint the rosy picture of what JC used to be are a tad delusional. it's always been gritty, rough, working-class, and full of corruption in government. as much as some people around here would like to try and portray it as a new phenomenon, it is NOT a new thing. does that make it right? of course not, and i'm not saying it should be ignored.

as a few people have mentioned, downtown does have tons more short-term types who may not care about the process. jersey city is such a huge city, and the concerns of all the other wards are so different than downtown's concerns, that it should be easy to see why some old-timers get cranky at the demands of the downtowners. and even though lots of people on this list hate the current administration, the bottom line is, they were voted into office. period. if you want to vote them out, go for it, but it takes people getting involved, and not just yelling at each other on a message board.

having said all that, we love it here. we looked in the suburbs years ago when we were stopping renting and looking to buy... sure, we would've loved to move to Montclair, but we couldnt afford those taxes (which are still worse than ours), and the commute would've been twice as long. our neighborhood was pretty sketchy when we moved in, but the police were great (and other departments in the city), and through active people on our block, we got rid of the scumbags, drug dealers and gangsters. easy? no. scary? at times. worth it for everyone to try and stick through it? not necessarily. my wife and i are both pretty stubborn, and we weren't going to let scumbags ruin our life. our neighbors who moved in shortly after us, couldn't take it and left.

would we like things to be better here? of course, which is why we participate in the voting process, and community activities. and i would love if someone like mike bloomberg came to run the place...

your jersey city can be great if you make it that way!

Posted on: 2010/2/4 20:07
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
#39
Home away from home
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moxiebaby wrote:
We will not buy a place with taxes over $3600/yr.


For 2010, we will have paid that before baseball season starts.

Posted on: 2010/2/4 19:35
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Re: Ready to give up living in this city...
#38
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JCSHEP wrote:
If you are unhappy, believe it stems from living in this municipality, and you would be happy somewhere else?you should move to another city as soon as you can. Life is too short, you owe nothing to JC. If it is financial with the taxes, unfortunately finances are usually non-negotiable. It doesn?t matter what other people think, your perspective/happiness is all that matters. If the majority of your negative experience stems from a bad experience with a developer/condo purchase and there are other redeeming qualities that you like here, you should try to parse that out. Not all developers in JC are bad, I have had a good experience. I do feel some of the negatives you mentioned with JC, for me the positives outweigh the negatives at this point in my life. When I come back from out of town it hits me every time when I come through the 14C tolls and round the bend on the elevated turnpike extension?I love living here.

Yes I feel that way as well when coming back from the shore. I'm home again, thumbs up to Jersey City...especially the Heights section.

Posted on: 2010/2/4 19:00
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