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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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maybeMoving wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a traffic jam on the stretch of Newark they're planning on closing down.


This. It's actually very little used. The fact is it's NOT considered a through street by any locals I know. If I'm going from HP to the post office, I don't make a left from Jersey on Newark, I make it on Columbus, because I know how clunky the lights for the zigzag at Grove are. No one makes a right from Grove onto Newark who isn't planning on trying to find a parking spot to shop on those blocks, otherwise they'd have made the right onto 2nd or Bay. The ONLY time I ever drive Newark to Grove is to pick someone up at the PATH, and I can easily take 1st to Grove to do it if Newark is closed. The traffic argument is complete bullshit. The merchant are just afraid of change, just like Yvonne.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 17:29
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Fomite wrote:
Exactly!
People are so against change they don't want to try it out. I hate that this city seems to cater to the few who are always complaining, and apparently never at work.


This is how life works. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, God helps those that help themselves, etc.

The meetings are held at 6pm, while some may not be able to attend due to work, I'm sure the vast majority of complainers here could make the time to attend if this was so important to them.


Most of the complainers are Store owners who have the right to see how this will effect them , as well as thier customers. Can't make a statement without being attacked by the opposition, no matter what the subject is, or what side your on. The people who would like to see the Plaza extended don't seem to care either way. But, for those who showed up obviously do. Make the time if it is so important to you.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 17:08
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Fomite wrote:
Exactly!
People are so against change they don't want to try it out. I hate that this city seems to cater to the few who are always complaining, and apparently never at work.


This is how life works. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, God helps those that help themselves, etc.

The meetings are held at 6pm, while some may not be able to attend due to work, I'm sure the vast majority of complainers here could make the time to attend if this was so important to them.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 15:38
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Exactly!
People are so against change they don't want to try it out. I hate that this city seems to cater to the few who are always complaining, and apparently never at work.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 15:23
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Fomite wrote:
I agree with JCMan8, but hopefully it's just a matter of time until Newark becomes a pedestrian plaza. JC has changed, for every 1 person that drives down Newark there are 100 (or more!) that shop, stroll, and spend money on foot.


Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a pedestrian plaza as well. But I don't care enough about it to show up at a meeting.

However, if I cared even half as much as some of the folks here, you better believe I'd be at the meeting and make my opinion heard. It's baffling to me how some people bitch and moan endlessly yet don't bother to show up or take any actions in real life to further their goal. What do you expect will happen?

So we're actually on the same page here. I'm not so upset that a pedestrian plaza isn't going to happen. I mean I think it would be nice but still not sure how it would really be utilized. I'm more annoyed by the fact that a small but vocal group of people want to hold this city back from trying something new that most cities/urban planners would agree is a great idea.

The fact that it can't even get of the ground as an experiment for the summer is ridiculous but, as you pointed out, those who didn't want it decided to show up at the meeting and make a stink.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 15:08
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Fomite wrote:
I agree with JCMan8, but hopefully it's just a matter of time until Newark becomes a pedestrian plaza. JC has changed, for every 1 person that drives down Newark there are 100 (or more!) that shop, stroll, and spend money on foot.


Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a pedestrian plaza as well. But I don't care enough about it to show up at a meeting.

However, if I cared even half as much as some of the folks here, you better believe I'd be at the meeting and make my opinion heard. It's baffling to me how some people bitch and moan endlessly yet don't bother to show up or take any actions in real life to further their goal. What do you expect will happen?

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:54
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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I agree with JCMan8, but hopefully it's just a matter of time until Newark becomes a pedestrian plaza. JC has changed, for every 1 person that drives down Newark there are 100 (or more!) that shop, stroll, and spend money on foot.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:38
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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if people know that a section of newark is closed, then they will make alternative travel plans

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:34
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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JCMan8 wrote:

I will repeat: the folks in opposition showed up in force at the meeting. But the people who want this project merely bitched and continue to bitch on this message board.

You shouldn't be surprised at the outcome.

Right, typically that's how things work. When something is expected to be easily approved do you really think a bunch of people would show up to pat each other on the back? Of course not, it's the vocal minority who think parking spaces are the most important aspect of urban planning. Just like it always is...

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:32
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:
So I guess we will continue to ignore the traffic jam that happens every day on Newark Avenue, even when the street is open. We will ignore the evidence because it doesn't suit our theory. We will ignore the constant traffic jam from Newark Avenue on Jersey Avenue down to the Medical Center and pretend that doesn't happen too. We will not request a traffic study because it might tell us things we don't want to hear. We will continue to live in ignorance because it suits our theory.


I don't think I've ever seen a traffic jam on the stretch of Newark they're planning on closing down. I can cross mid-block just about any time during rush hour on Newark between Barrow and Grove without even needing to wait.

You have a very skewed perspective of what constitutes overcrowding on roads, PATH trains, development, etc. Many of us new residents came here from across the river and JC seems downright relaxing even compared to Brooklyn.

While other cities are striving to move away from autocentric development you and a few other old timers are busy shaking your canes at town hall meetings over parking spaces and ensuring that you can forever drive easily around the densest parts of downtown.

Congratulations on your "victory" of preserving DTJC for the myopic old guard.


I will repeat: the folks in opposition showed up in force at the meeting. But the people who want this project merely bitched and continue to bitch on this message board.

You shouldn't be surprised at the outcome.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:20
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:
So I guess we will continue to ignore the traffic jam that happens every day on Newark Avenue, even when the street is open. We will ignore the evidence because it doesn't suit our theory. We will ignore the constant traffic jam from Newark Avenue on Jersey Avenue down to the Medical Center and pretend that doesn't happen too. We will not request a traffic study because it might tell us things we don't want to hear. We will continue to live in ignorance because it suits our theory.


I don't think I've ever seen a traffic jam on the stretch of Newark they're planning on closing down. I can cross mid-block just about any time during rush hour on Newark between Barrow and Grove without even needing to wait.

You have a very skewed perspective of what constitutes overcrowding on roads, PATH trains, development, etc. Many of us new residents came here from across the river and JC seems downright relaxing even compared to Brooklyn.

While other cities are striving to move away from autocentric development you and a few other old timers are busy shaking your canes at town hall meetings over parking spaces and ensuring that you can forever drive easily around the densest parts of downtown.

Congratulations on your "victory" of preserving DTJC for the myopic old guard.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:13
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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People thought the Newport Mall and The Home Depot would cause traffic and quality of life problems it did not occur.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 14:02
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:

We will continue to live in ignorance because it suits our theory.



I knew you had a motto, I just couldn't figure out what the exact wording was.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 13:57
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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So I guess we will continue to ignore the traffic jam that happens every day on Newark Avenue, even when the street is open. We will ignore the evidence because it doesn't suit our theory. We will ignore the constant traffic jam from Newark Avenue on Jersey Avenue down to the Medical Center and pretend that doesn't happen too. We will not request a traffic study because it might tell us things we don't want to hear. We will continue to live in ignorance because it suits our theory.


Posted on: 2014/7/1 13:13
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Before we have a traffic study, we need to hold a public hearing to get community input on the study. People should be allowed to bring signs to hold and wave at the public hearing. To ensure that the public hearing follows best practices, we should conduct a study on how to hold a public hearing to obtain community input for a traffic study. Said study should be informed by a public hearing where community input can be obtained for the study on a public hearing for a traffic study. Again, people should bring signs to the public hearing.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 13:00
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:

I find it amazing that people who don't get what they want call the opposing view insular, narrow-minded, and obstructive. If the city wanted to do a traffic study, they are the ones in charge, they choose not to because it would raise more questions. It is obvious dtjcview, you have a vested interest in having Newark Avenue closed, the reason for your negative remarks.


This is ridiculous. If the city commissioned a traffic study, you would be complaining that Fulop was wasting money. The ordinance calls for a trial period before being permanently enacted, which I think is a sufficient alternative. You and the other guy saying you've been here 40 years and knowing that "the traffic gets real bad" does not constitute sufficient evidence for throwing the whole plan in the garbage. I will admit to having a vested interest in the plan. I live and work in Downtown. I own property in Downtown. I do 99% of my shopping, eating, and drinking Downtown, and I think the plan will increase the quality of life here.


I agree with SteveWilson - anecdotal examples of traffic backing up because of unanticipated construction, accidents or breakdowns are not adequate replacements for a traffic study. For one thing, a temporary closing would allow drivers to find other routes over time. I remember the hullabaloo people made over putting benches and planters on Newark Avenue - they'd turn into garbage cans with dead flowers and Motel Sixes for the down and outs. They didn't.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 11:49
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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dtjcview wrote:
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SteveWilson29 wrote:
I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?


I know you just speak out of your rear on everything, but as a resident over 40 years I know Yvonne is right. If you know downtown, all you have to see is one block closed for 5 hrs, and the traffic gets real bad. With the number of people who will not be aware of this, that will create traffic jams and streets being clogged. I don't think you need a PDF or any study to see what will happen, it takes common sense and maybe 40 years of watching these things repeat itself.


Sorry Poncho. Steve shoots from the hip. But he's open-minded and knows what he doesn't know. You and Yvonne come across as narrow-minded, insular, obstructive people, that fail to recognize you have limitations, prejudices and are not infallible. Wake please to your own pride and limitations. Who knows? You might be wrong.


Open minded ?
And the dribble you just spurted out shows where your at. Just full of yourself, for yourself.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 10:38
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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hero69 wrote:
people said that closing art of the pulaski highway would create a nightmare -. it didn't happen! some people thought armagedon would happen when they had to close part of the 405 ( a major artery in los angeles) - it didn't happen!


people thought the light-rail would cause traffic chaos - it didn't happen.

people love to fear monger - happens all the time

Posted on: 2014/7/1 10:12
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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people said that closing art of the pulaski highway would create a nightmare -. it didn't happen! some people thought armagedon would happen when they had to close part of the 405 ( a major artery in los angeles) - it didn't happen!

Posted on: 2014/7/1 10:02
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Poncho11 wrote:
Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?


I know you just speak out of your rear on everything, but as a resident over 40 years I know Yvonne is right. If you know downtown, all you have to see is one block closed for 5 hrs, and the traffic gets real bad. With the number of people who will not be aware of this, that will create traffic jams and streets being clogged. I don't think you need a PDF or any study to see what will happen, it takes common sense and maybe 40 years of watching these things repeat itself.


Sorry Poncho. Steve shoots from the hip. But he's open-minded and knows what he doesn't know. You and Yvonne come across as narrow-minded, insular, obstructive people, that fail to recognize you have limitations, prejudices and are not infallible. Wake please to your own pride and limitations. Who knows? You might be wrong.


I find it amazing that people who don't get what they want call the opposing view insular, narrow-minded, and obstructive. If the city wanted to do a traffic study, they are the ones in charge, they choose not to because it would raise more questions. It is obvious dtjcview, you have a vested interest in having Newark Avenue closed, the reason for your negative remarks.


Black and white. Right and wrong. Good and evil. How I wish I lived in your simplistic, deluded, self-righteous world. Perhaps we can collect some firewood and burn some heretics?

Course in the real world nothing is quite so simple. I have zero agenda on Newark Ave and whether it's good or bad to make it a pedestrian plaza. I'm pretty open minded on deciding whether it's the right decision, and I'm open to persuasion.

Keep barking and keep blaming. That's all I hear from you.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 4:09
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:

I find it amazing that people who don't get what they want call the opposing view insular, narrow-minded, and obstructive. If the city wanted to do a traffic study, they are the ones in charge, they choose not to because it would raise more questions. It is obvious dtjcview, you have a vested interest in having Newark Avenue closed, the reason for your negative remarks.


This is ridiculous. If the city commissioned a traffic study, you would be complaining that Fulop was wasting money. The ordinance calls for a trial period before being permanently enacted, which I think is a sufficient alternative. You and the other guy saying you've been here 40 years and knowing that "the traffic gets real bad" does not constitute sufficient evidence for throwing the whole plan in the garbage. I will admit to having a vested interest in the plan. I live and work in Downtown. I own property in Downtown. I do 99% of my shopping, eating, and drinking Downtown, and I think the plan will increase the quality of life here.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 3:51
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Poncho11 wrote:
Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?


I know you just speak out of your rear on everything, but as a resident over 40 years I know Yvonne is right. If you know downtown, all you have to see is one block closed for 5 hrs, and the traffic gets real bad. With the number of people who will not be aware of this, that will create traffic jams and streets being clogged. I don't think you need a PDF or any study to see what will happen, it takes common sense and maybe 40 years of watching these things repeat itself.


Sorry Poncho. Steve shoots from the hip. But he's open-minded and knows what he doesn't know. You and Yvonne come across as narrow-minded, insular, obstructive people, that fail to recognize you have limitations, prejudices and are not infallible. Wake please to your own pride and limitations. Who knows? You might be wrong.


I find it amazing that people who don't get what they want call the opposing view insular, narrow-minded, and obstructive. If the city wanted to do a traffic study, they are the ones in charge, they choose not to because it would raise more questions. It is obvious dtjcview, you have a vested interest in having Newark Avenue closed, the reason for your negative remarks.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 3:19
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Poncho11 wrote:
Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?


I know you just speak out of your rear on everything, but as a resident over 40 years I know Yvonne is right. If you know downtown, all you have to see is one block closed for 5 hrs, and the traffic gets real bad. With the number of people who will not be aware of this, that will create traffic jams and streets being clogged. I don't think you need a PDF or any study to see what will happen, it takes common sense and maybe 40 years of watching these things repeat itself.


Sorry Poncho. Steve shoots from the hip. But he's open-minded and knows what he doesn't know. You and Yvonne come across as narrow-minded, insular, obstructive people, that fail to recognize you have limitations, prejudices and are not infallible. Wake please to your own pride and limitations. Who knows? You might be wrong.

Posted on: 2014/7/1 2:23
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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It's telling that this didn't pass, but the extension of Jersey Ave to LSP is likely to happen. Jersey City continues to show a commitment to the car, which is exactly the opposite of the direction every other city is moving towards.

Posted on: 2014/6/30 19:14
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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SteveWilson29 wrote:
I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?


I know you just speak out of your rear on everything, but as a resident over 40 years I know Yvonne is right. If you know downtown, all you have to see is one block closed for 5 hrs, and the traffic gets real bad. With the number of people who will not be aware of this, that will create traffic jams and streets being clogged. I don't think you need a PDF or any study to see what will happen, it takes common sense and maybe 40 years of watching these things repeat itself.

Posted on: 2014/6/30 19:06
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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I didn't think you had a traffic study. Which streets will they use? Where will they be going? How will morning traffic differ from afternoon?

Posted on: 2014/6/30 18:41
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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I have 40 years of living in the Van Vorst community. I saw the traffic.

Posted on: 2014/6/30 18:30
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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Yvonne wrote:
If and when the city closes Newark Avenue, motorist will take short cuts into the Van Vorst neighborhood to avoid the traffic pileup. That traffic will be bumping into the Holland Traffic "shortcut" traffic.


Uh, ok. Do you have a PDF or something of your traffic study?

Posted on: 2014/6/29 15:54
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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If and when the city closes Newark Avenue, motorist will take short cuts into the Van Vorst neighborhood to avoid the traffic pileup. That traffic will be bumping into the Holland Traffic "shortcut" traffic.

Posted on: 2014/6/29 15:13
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Re: Jersey City considers turning Newark Avenue into pedestrian plaza
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I won't take any discussion of traffic backups seriously until somebody starts addressing the hordes of people using downtown as a shortcut to the Holland Tunnel when they don't want to wait their turn on the Turnpike. Any other discussion before that is just whining.

Posted on: 2014/6/29 13:48
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