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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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hero69 wrote:
but why not allow manufacturers to label their products as "non_GMO" just like they do with organic products. If I choose to waste my money on such products, how does that concern anyone else?


Why are you under the impression that is not allowed? Companies are free to label their products as GMO free. Some already do. Prime example: Cheerios.

Also, any product labeled "certified organic" is GMO-free.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 21:03
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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but why not allow manufacturers to label their products as "non_GMO" just like they do with organic products. If I choose to waste my money on such products, how does that concern anyone else?

Posted on: 2014/6/12 19:50
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Conformist wrote:
Science is about *scientists* asking questions. It is not about the general public's uninformed opinion and questions based in the general public's uninformed ignorance. If you have no scientific background in the particular relevant field, you have no business asking questions...


My point is that you seem to be dismissing any potential concerns with an angry wave of the hand, almost as if to say that because the popular, irrational argument is wrong, there are no questions left to ask. Again, it is important to recognize that the implications of GMOs extend far beyond the scope of just their consumption and use, and it would be irresponsible not to ask questions regardless of our backgrounds.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 18:06
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Ok, so if companies don't want to deal with the hassle or the expense, they can just slap GMO on everything.


It doesn't work that way. Labeling proposed requires you track everything GMO or non-GMO.


Why? If you want to be labeled Kosher or Organic you need to do the footwork yourself, everyone else does what they want. Why not put the onus on the producers who want to be labeled "GMO FREE"? I'll guess it's because they want to give the other guys the scary scarlet letter "CONTAINS GMO!!!".

Posted on: 2014/6/12 17:20
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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...that's exactly what the GMO freak-out is, another vaccines-cause-autism bout of stupidity from Jenny McCarthy-esque idiots who would rather listen their astrologist than science.


Science is about asking questions, not dismissing them. Because the implications of GMOs reach far beyond simply their consumption and use, it opens the door to a wide variety of questions. What?s the likelihood that they all have promising answers? While many negative attitudes towards GMOs appear to be irrational, there remains much more to discuss than just the misinformation.


Science is about *scientists* asking questions. It is not about the general public's uninformed opinion and questions based in the general public's uninformed ignorance. If you have no scientific background in the particular relevant field, you have no business asking questions--in any case, the public's questions are likely already answered, as they are for GMOs, they just insist on asking the same question over and over again demanding the answer they expect to hear ("Woo, scary chemicals") instead of the one given.

It's exactly like the vaccine refuseniks, creationism, global warming, etc. It is not for laypeople to question.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 16:20
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Ok, so if companies don't want to deal with the hassle or the expense, they can just slap GMO on everything.


It doesn't work that way. Labeling proposed requires you track everything GMO or non-GMO.


So track everything as GMO if you don't want to be bothered with separating the two.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 16:13
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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GMOs are not "a thing" in the way trans fats are. There is literally no way to distinguish between even the genetic composition of GMO foods from "naturally evolved" foods.


Ahem. Trans fats were not "a thing" for 88 years. More, there was literally no way to distinguish between artificial trans fats and naturally occurring trans fats for 88 years.

This exceptionally clear divide between people is just one more reason why labels are needed.


There *is* no difference between "artificial trans fats" and "natural trans fats". They are equally bad for you. You're just demonstrating more ignorance of science. (That said, trans fats rarely appear in nature, which is why they are typically added to products rather than already being present in them.)

Posted on: 2014/6/12 16:13
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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thor800 wrote:
Agreed on the science part - companies producing GMO foods and seeds should first prove that they aren't harmful to consumers instead of the opposite, but that never seems to happen.



The USDA and the FDA in concert require approval of GMO foods and animals (the latter being handled by the FDA). Some of these approvals take years (over a decade for the Salmon).

You can get an idea of what items are in the approval pipeline here:

http://www.isaaa.org/gmapprovaldatabase/default.asp

Posted on: 2014/6/12 15:30
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Ok, so if companies don't want to deal with the hassle or the expense, they can just slap GMO on everything.


It doesn't work that way. Labeling proposed requires you track everything GMO or non-GMO.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 15:26
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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thor800 wrote:
Agreed on the science part - companies producing GMO foods and seeds should first prove that they aren't harmful to consumers instead of the opposite, but that never seems to happen.

Companies such as Monsanto claim that they are feeding the world's population while at the same time selling pesticides / herbicides such as Roundup / Glyphosate and producing Roundup-resistant seeds.



Why don't you prove you're not a secret cat torturer? Can't, can you? Because evidence based science can't absolutely prove a negative. Sure, it's a problem in fields like medicine where something is eventually found harmful despite rigorous testing, but progress can't stop because of lack of "certainty". Nothing is certain, and few things are absolutely safe. Passively sitting in front of the TV is bad for your health, but going for a run you might get hit by a car.

Monsanto wouldn't be selling billions worth of their products if there wasn't an advantage to farmers in it. There are even environmental advantages to the Roundup Ready seed economy. It's their intellectual property department that's most evil.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 15:22
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

If we're assuming most foods are GMO, it shouldn't be too difficult for companies to label most foods as GMO except for the select few that are 100% non-GMO.



True labeling requires tracking. You have to be able to document every step of the way as corn for example starts at the seed company and eventually ends up in your cereal.

This actually a major expense. Not only in paperwork, but infrastructure as you can no longer freely co-mingle seeds at the grain elevators.


Ok, so if companies don't want to deal with the hassle or the expense, they can just slap GMO on everything.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 14:07
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Agreed on the science part - companies producing GMO foods and seeds should first prove that they aren't harmful to consumers instead of the opposite, but that never seems to happen.

Companies such as Monsanto claim that they are feeding the world's population while at the same time selling pesticides / herbicides such as Roundup / Glyphosate and producing Roundup-resistant seeds.


Posted on: 2014/6/12 13:37
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Conformist wrote:
...that's exactly what the GMO freak-out is, another vaccines-cause-autism bout of stupidity from Jenny McCarthy-esque idiots who would rather listen their astrologist than science.


Science is about asking questions, not dismissing them. Because the implications of GMOs reach far beyond simply their consumption and use, it opens the door to a wide variety of questions. What?s the likelihood that they all have promising answers? While many negative attitudes towards GMOs appear to be irrational, there remains much more to discuss than just the misinformation.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 12:26
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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JC_rider wrote:
I am all for this and Monsanto is an evil company and all BUT...
how about first they fix the lead issue in the JC public schools' water faucets/fountains.


Because it's much easier to get on a high horse, sound righteous, and tell someone else to spend money than to do it yourself.

Concluding GMO's are harmful because Monsanto has scummy business practices is like concluding the internet is evil because of the scummy practices of Comcast.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 4:25
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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I am all for this and Monsanto is an evil company and all BUT...
how about first they fix the lead issue in the JC public schools' water faucets/fountains.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 3:33
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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I'd like labels to include levels of corn syrup and sugars in food - I hope we get something like the 'traffic light' labeling laws in some european countries

http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science- ... -light-labels-finds-study

Just google: traffic light food labelling for more info

Posted on: 2014/6/12 1:51
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Please, do continue to enjoy your GMOs guys. Only by having enough test subjects can we go from "inconclusive" to "conclusive".

Posted on: 2014/6/12 1:51
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Or should we also stop vaccinating our children because vaccines cause autism? Should vaccines get big, fat warning labels about autism? Because that's exactly what the GMO freak-out is, another vaccines-cause-autism bout of stupidity from Jenny McCarthy-esque idiots who would rather listen their astrologist than science.


Zactly. Want to know how crazy these people are? There was a NYT article about GMO produced ingredients in products like soap. That's right, they oppose it even if it's not food but soap or medicine. That exposes their anti-science agenda.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/31/bus ... ousehold-soaps.html?_r=0:
These announcements have prompted some environmental groups and consumer activists to call for labeling that would disclose whether synthetic biology was used to make product ingredients.

?We support Ecover?s determination to move away from using unsustainable palm oil, but would ask your company to reconsider the false solution of using ingredients derived from the new genetic engineering ? synthetically modified organisms,? the groups wrote in a letter to the company.

An ingredient crucial to malaria drugs, artemisinin, is already being produced from a yeast altered through synthetic biology. Specific brands have not been disclosed.


I love the phrase "false solution", ie: a solution we don't like cannot be true!!! I can picture their neolithic forbears protesting the "false solutions" of herding and farming.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 0:42
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Conformist wrote:
GMOs are not "a thing" in the way trans fats are. There is literally no way to distinguish between even the genetic composition of GMO foods from "naturally evolved" foods.


Ahem. Trans fats were not "a thing" for 88 years. More, there was literally no way to distinguish between artificial trans fats and naturally occurring trans fats for 88 years.

This exceptionally clear divide between people is just one more reason why labels are needed.

Posted on: 2014/6/12 0:21
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Conformist wrote:
Nothing to fear except the next wasteful craze, like gluten-free.


While it is true that MANY people have adopted gluten free diets as a fad, the condition known as celiac disease is a very real problem for many people. Don't be too quick to dismiss people who ask for gluten-free diets, as they may be extremely sensitive to wheat and gluten.


Don't assume I am; my mother has celiac disease. However, when I see something like packaged raw meat or yogurt labeled "gluten free"... well, it's the same idiocy as GMO-free.


I totally get your point. From your "tone" it seemed like you were. It's an interesting problem for those who have it. Thankfully, doctors are now better informed and equipped to make an early diagnosis. From what I have heard from some people, their diagnosis were not made until they were well into their 30's or 40's. In any case, I do agree with you that the whole thing has devolved into a craze, with gluten-free labels applied to all kinds of food items. I guess you can blame it on the celebrities pushing the "g diets".

Posted on: 2014/6/11 22:41
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Anyone who thinks 15 years is enough to prove harmfulness to the human organs, has not heard about trans fats.

Artificial trans fats were introduced in 1902. It wasn't until 1990s that research started to emerge, showing they caused long-term heart disease. In 2007 the government finally agreed that "there is likely no safe level of trans fat and that people should eat as little as possible".

The government has, to date, not been successful at completely eliminating trans fats from food supply due to fractional rounding and misleading "trans fat free" labeling. This is 110+ years later!

One source: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getting ... at_UCM_301463_Article.jsp

Labels, please!


The idea that GMOs and trans fats are remotely comparable is ridiculous. GMOs are not "a thing" in the way trans fats are. There is literally no way to distinguish between even the genetic composition of GMO foods from "naturally evolved" foods. Moreover, the vast majorities of GMOs are just splicing a gene from one plant into another. There's no "substance" being added, except some scary voodoo that a bunch of idiots are freaking out over.

Or should we also stop vaccinating our children because vaccines cause autism? Should vaccines get big, fat warning labels about autism? Because that's exactly what the GMO freak-out is, another vaccines-cause-autism bout of stupidity from Jenny McCarthy-esque idiots who would rather listen their astrologist than science.

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bodhipooh wrote:
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Conformist wrote:
Nothing to fear except the next wasteful craze, like gluten-free.


While it is true that MANY people have adopted gluten free diets as a fad, the condition known as celiac disease is a very real problem for many people. Don't be too quick to dismiss people who ask for gluten-free diets, as they may be extremely sensitive to wheat and gluten.


Don't assume I am; my mother has celiac disease. However, when I see something like packaged raw meat or yogurt labeled "gluten free"... well, it's the same idiocy as GMO-free.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 22:22
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Wow! The third time I've been extremely proud to be a Jersey City resident!!!! (Just kidding, lots of good things happen here in Chill town, but this is really important for our lives and our children's lives.

NEXT
Mandatory mental health and anti depressant lifelong ban on a gun license.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 19:30
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Anyone who thinks 15 years is enough to prove harmfulness to the human organs, has not heard about trans fats.

Artificial trans fats were introduced in 1902. It wasn't until 1990s that research started to emerge, showing they caused long-term heart disease. In 2007 the government finally agreed that "there is likely no safe level of trans fat and that people should eat as little as possible".

The government has, to date, not been successful at completely eliminating trans fats from food supply due to fractional rounding and misleading "trans fat free" labeling. This is 110+ years later!

One source: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getting ... at_UCM_301463_Article.jsp

Labels, please!

Posted on: 2014/6/11 17:46
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

If we're assuming most foods are GMO, it shouldn't be too difficult for companies to label most foods as GMO except for the select few that are 100% non-GMO.



True labeling requires tracking. You have to be able to document every step of the way as corn for example starts at the seed company and eventually ends up in your cereal.

This actually a major expense. Not only in paperwork, but infrastructure as you can no longer freely co-mingle seeds at the grain elevators.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 17:39
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Conformist wrote:
Nothing to fear except the next wasteful craze, like gluten-free.


While it is true that MANY people have adopted gluten free diets as a fad, the condition known as celiac disease is a very real problem for many people. Don't be too quick to dismiss people who ask for gluten-free diets, as they may be extremely sensitive to wheat and gluten.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 17:11
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Adonis wrote:
I love GMO foods! They are delicious and nutritious while much cheaper to produce. A true win - win. I'm all for the labeling of GMO's too. I want to know which ones contain GMO's so I can buy more of them exclusively.


The problem is the tracking and separation of GMO and Non GMO food (i.e. having to have separate grain silos) inflicts a cost.

It would be better to assume all products have some or all GMO, have non-GMO foods label themselves as such, let people pay the premium for such labeling. Almost all the grains you eat are GMO.


If we're assuming most foods are GMO, it shouldn't be too difficult for companies to label most foods as GMO except for the select few that are 100% non-GMO.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 17:06
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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After 15+ years you think we have had enough time to see at least some ill effects?



There is one short-term effect that?s clear however, and that?s the increasing power of companies that develop and patent new plant strains through modern genetic engineering, and the decreasing power of the men and women who labor to grow our food. Unlike traditional selective breeding techniques, these new methods are, and will remain, inaccessible to anyone who doesn?t have billions of dollars to spend. .


The Salmon company I posted a link to developed the fish back in the 1990's. Total investment so far has been $60 million, which is micro-company / penny stock territory. They are hardly an ADM sized outfit. Their problem has been the many years of waiting for FDA approval. It is the cost of the government red tape that is killing them.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 16:23
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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Adonis wrote:
I love GMO foods! They are delicious and nutritious while much cheaper to produce. A true win - win. I'm all for the labeling of GMO's too. I want to know which ones contain GMO's so I can buy more of them exclusively.


The problem is the tracking and separation of GMO and Non GMO food (i.e. having to have separate grain silos) inflicts a cost.

It would be better to assume all products have some or all GMO, have non-GMO foods label themselves as such, let people pay the premium for such labeling. Almost all the grains you eat are GMO.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 16:20
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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I love GMO foods! They are delicious and nutritious while much cheaper to produce. A true win - win. I'm all for the labeling of GMO's too. I want to know which ones contain GMO's so I can buy more of them exclusively.
While we are at it let's label all those genetically modified dogs running around the neighborhood.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 15:45
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Re: Jersey City City Council to vote on resolution in support of GMO labeling
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hero69 wrote:
if there no concerns, then there is nothing to fear from better labelling


Nothing to fear except the next wasteful craze, like gluten-free. Also, anti-GMO activists are hugely harmful--they prevent research into more productive agricultural products that save lives from starvation around the world.

If there's nothing to fear, there's no reason to label the products. The burden is on the pro-labelling people to establish why this is valid. And "I'm fearful of science and things I don't understand" isn't a reason. Makes you sound like a creationist.

Posted on: 2014/6/11 15:16
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