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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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SLyng wrote:
There are two issues being discussed here?
1) Gambling on Horse Racing vs. other forms of Gambling. How there appears to be preference for the former and opposition to the latter.
2) Slots in racing facilities competing with Atlantic City which is somehow bad

With respect to #1, I think it?s fair to say that Gambling on horses is the same as gambling on the throw of a dice, the draw of a card, or the pull of a lever. You?re wagering money on an uncertain outcome and have the potential to lose money. That?s why I can?t understand why horseracing gets a pass on gambling but other forms (in particular online gambling) do not.


Neither can I. And still the people who think a casino at the Meadowlands would be a bad idea are still nowhere to be heard from.

I also agree with what you have to say on the subject of giving Atlantic City a monopoly on slots to the detriment of NJ racing fans and breeders. Like you said, NJ racetracks have to compete with NY, PA, *and* Delaware. Furthermore, what's wrong with competition, for A.C. or anyone else? Last time I checked we lived in a capitalist society. Isn't competition the American way?

Posted on: 2008/2/12 3:01
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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There are two issues being discussed here?
1) Gambling on Horse Racing vs. other forms of Gambling. How there appears to be preference for the former and opposition to the latter.
2) Slots in racing facilities competing with Atlantic City which is somehow bad

With respect to #1, I think it?s fair to say that Gambling on horses is the same as gambling on the throw of a dice, the draw of a card, or the pull of a lever. You?re wagering money on an uncertain outcome and have the potential to lose money. That?s why I can?t understand why horseracing gets a pass on gambling but other forms (in particular online gambling) do not.

The point of the article I attached was that horse racing is being driven out of this state as a result of other states offering slot machines at their raceways (in PA or NY for example). The purses offered at these venues are larger and thus attract more competition and better races. Naturally people who follow the ?sport? and those who participate in the sport will go to places that offer the better contests. Therefore revenue at the NJ raceways was down (and by extension ? tax revenue).

So the question is: Is it fair to give Atlantic City a monopoly on slots at the detriment of NJ racing fans & NJ Breeders? I would argue no. Your argument is that you lose revenue in Atlantic City and that?s bad for us all. Well you?re going to lose it anyway because people in NY & PA don?t give a damn about Atlantic City and they ARE offering slots to their patrons. Ianmac?s comment that ?Atlantic City casinos are rightfully concerned that placing slot machines in facilities other than Atlantic City casinos will hurt casino slot revenue, the bread and butter of the casino industry? is almost correct, just take out the word ?rightfully.? Just because they?ve been given a legalized monopoly doesn?t change the fact that it?s still a monopoly. Their business model is, give us a dollar, and we?ll give you back 95cents on average (sometimes they average far less than 90c on the dollar) with no risk to the casino in the long run ? that sounds like a business I?d love to get into. And obviously a business others would want to get into.

The racing industry in Jersey is trying to adapt and compete with other race tracks in other states. Why shouldn?t they have the same advantages others have? Atlantic City on the other hand DOES offer a gambler the ability to bet on horses without actually having to go to a racetrack, how is that fair to the racetrack ? won?t they sell less hot dogs? Oh the outrage of it all!

Posted on: 2008/2/12 1:54
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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ianmac47 wrote:
If the Meadowlands is open up to slot machines for those reasons JSQ, then where is the reasoning behind preventing every corner pub in the state from having slots, or gaming tables, or taking sports bets?

That would be in fact awesome. I am 100% sure that, unless you are a nation of complete idiots, you can live with that.
I had that, after the fall of communism, in my home country, and I can tell you it was good. I had friends who lost a lot of money in the first years of college. When they got deep in s--t and exhausted all their credit opportunities, they stopped naturally. My favourite example is one of these addicts, who bet everything he had for a few years, then realized the importance of laundry, got married, and has hired other three of his colleagues in his office. Sometimes this is the only way to learn the value of money.
Yes, gambling addiction is bad. It does come with all other defects that some puritans will try to deny to its citizens, but otherwise are either:
- inexplicably half-controlled (why not close LITM? they hav alcohol there, which is far worse) or
- somehow permitted (I can tell how a prostitute looks, but the NYC cops seem not to) or
- explicitly permitted (smoking is also a risk factor for divorce and child abandonment; credit card huge indebtedness, I hear, did not lead to Macy's being closed).
But given that all the other "evils" are either permitted or unstoppable, why cling on to this one, which seems to be one of the least harmful?

Besides, no American lives further away than two hours from a casino. Whom are you fooling?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 17:13
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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If the Meadowlands is open up to slot machines for those reasons JSQ, then where is the reasoning behind preventing every corner pub in the state from having slots, or gaming tables, or taking sports bets?

The bottom line is 30 years ago Atlantic City was competing with Las Vegas, a few European spots like Monte Carlo, and that's it. Now a majority of states has slots, Vegas has been reinvented as a major tourist destination, eastern European gambling destinations have opened up, and Macau is about to or already has become the largest gambling city in the world. So there is plenty of competition to the point that Atlantic City's tourist industry-- and by extension, the state's revenue from tourism-- is being negatively impacted. Will Atlantic City continue to receive major investments if it loses income from slot players going to the Meadowlands instead of the newest AC casinos?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 14:24
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Caj11, you are a newbie. When I sound deadly serious, I am completely not serious.
I don't care about the revenue in Atlantic City or in Meadowlands, or anywhere in the world. I am a potential consumer, and I see advantages in having more offers. Competition between providers (you know, that thing when you have somebody else in addition to Comcast or Verizon) improves service and lowers the price down to the point where the rich fat cats are not that rich anymore.
The current regime is not protecting addicts, since most of those who would be able to go to the Meadowlands are already going there or to Atlantic City. The way things are now, casinos receive an aura of exquisiteness, of "top of entertainment" (which they are not). This lures people who otherwise (if slot machines would be installed in the pubs around Grove St) would not be attracted.
This plays in the interest of the casino owners. I think the casinos in AC also benefited from tax cuts. Is this really protection for gambling addicts, or rather protection for an unfair oligopoly?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 13:38
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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ianmac47 wrote:
By law, the only place in New Jersey where gambling is allowed is Atlantic City. Racetracks, like the Meadowlands, are allowed to take bets on horse races, but not allowed gambling machines like slots. For at least 8 years now the raceways have been lobbying for video slots or slot machines or some other form of gambling at the raceways. Atlantic City casinos are rightfully concerned that placing slot machines in facilities other than Atlantic City casinos will hurt casino slot revenue, the bread and butter of the casino industry.


So is the anti-casino movement concerned about Atlantic City now too? Is there a Camp #3 that thinks gambling is evil unless its racetracks or anything in Atlantic City?

This thread just gets more and more confusing and it isn't even that long yet.

Posted on: 2008/2/11 5:40
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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By law, the only place in New Jersey where gambling is allowed is Atlantic City. Racetracks, like the Meadowlands, are allowed to take bets on horse races, but not allowed gambling machines like slots. For at least 8 years now the raceways have been lobbying for video slots or slot machines or some other form of gambling at the raceways. Atlantic City casinos are rightfully concerned that placing slot machines in facilities other than Atlantic City casinos will hurt casino slot revenue, the bread and butter of the casino industry.

Posted on: 2008/2/11 5:26
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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yeah, i gotta be honest... i dont get the issue here?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 5:16
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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I've never understood the fine line of "one man's addiction" and legalized gambling. It's always been explained to me as income for the state and all. So why are the outskirts of AC such a sheizen hole?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 3:52
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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JSQ wrote:
I can only imagine poor people becoming such addicts that the #2 will be filled. This is horrific! Dear community, stand for our common good, do not allow such houses of sin so close to us. Allow them exclusively in other parts of the state, country and the world. We don't need casinos, we can always make money through industry and arts!


I'm confused here. So are you against all legal forms of gambling - racetracks and lotteries as well as casinos, or are you with Camp #2, that only has a problem with casinos? Which is it?

Posted on: 2008/2/11 3:38
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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I can only imagine poor people becoming such addicts that the #2 will be filled. This is horrific! Dear community, stand for our common good, do not allow such houses of sin so close to us. Allow them exclusively in other parts of the state, country and the world. We don't need casinos, we can always make money through industry and arts!

Posted on: 2008/2/11 1:48
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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GrovePath wrote:
I'm missing it -- why should North Jersey care so much about Atlantic City?


Slots at the meadowlands are not a "destination" that attracts tourists from outside the state. It never will be. Atlantic City has long attracted out of state tourist dollars, but has been loosing ground to places like Las Vegas. Putting slots in the Meadowlands now is like slapping AC while its down. But if major investments don't continue in Atlantic City, it will completely lose out on regional and national tourism. Out of state tourist dollars puts money into the state economy, money into the state treasury through taxes -- hotel, sales, gas. Yes, in the short term, north Jersey gains a few jobs. In the long term, north Jersey loses because Atlantic City attracts fewer tourists, investments there are less profitable, meaning even fewer tourists go there.

Posted on: 2008/2/10 21:59
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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SLyng wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
.


There's a total double-standard for horses vs. other types of gambling. Just look at the bullshit legislation that passed 1 or 2 yrs ago banning bank transfers to online gaming websites. There was a SPECIFIC carve-out in the law to exempt horse racing from the law - i.e. it's OK to place bets on horses online. The rest of us who want to play poker online get shut down but the horse racing people are fine.

I think you're right, maybe they just know how to handle the politicians better than other forms of gambling. Somehow it became more socially acceptable to bet on horses than to bet on blackjack or poker. I don't get it myself because unless you're an expert handicapper, the average joe has just as good a chance to lose their money on the ponies as they do on a turn of the roulette wheel.

If the goal is to prevent people from being degenerates - why let them bet on horses? In the land of the free i say spend your money on whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt others...


I couldn't have said it better myself. Notice how quiet the anti-casino community becomes when the whole betting on horseracing double-standard issue comes up. So who wants to answer: is betting your paycheck on horseracing less evil than betting it at the craps table or slots? If so why? Or should the Meadowlands racetrack and OTB be shut down too? I wouldn't miss either of them, but then its my choice not to go to them either.

Am I missing something or are there actually two
anti-casino camps out there?

1.The one against ALL forms of gambling, racetracks and lotteries included.

2.The one that is simply against games of chance like slots and table games but has no problem with racetracks and/or lotteries?

Camp #1 makes more sense to me because at least they are consistent in what they believe, even if I don't agree with it. I can't make head or tail of camp #2's logic.

Posted on: 2008/2/10 20:17
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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I'm missing it -- why should North Jersey care so much about Atlantic City?

Posted on: 2008/2/10 19:32
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Atlantic City as a destination, is a great tourist draw for the state of New Jersey. Slot machines at the meadowlands would certainly hurt Atlantic City revenue and may slow investment in the city. But AC needs new investment to compete with Las Vegas and stay competitive in a very competitive industry.

States all around us-- Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York-- are all considering or already have slot machines. These casino halls are sucking money away from AC. Slots at the racetrack will only also mean more north Jersey residents don't bother heading south to get their gambling fix.

Atlantic City's revenues are good for the state. Meadowland's slots might boost revenues in the short term for the state, but long term will deprive AC of revenue, hurting a major contributer to state coffers.

Posted on: 2008/2/10 18:53
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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caj11 wrote:

If they put up a casino at the Meadowlands, I probably wouldn't go to it but how is this any different than the racetrack with parimutuel betting that is already there (which includes the betting on simulcast horseraces from other tracks) ? I can just as easily blow my whole paycheck at the racetrack, why is it always less controversial?

Come to think of it, there's an Off-Tracking Betting (OTB) facility one block from where I work in Manhattan which I have never entered and again, I could blow my whole paycheck there too. Yet about ten years ago, a couple of companies tried launch casino cruises from Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn and mayor Giuliani went apeshit, throwing up every roadblock he could to make it difficult for them to operate, until it became unprofitable and they were forced to close. But the OTB facilities, right in Manhattan and other locations around the city remain open.

Here's a bet I'd like to take - do the OTB & racetrack people have a lot more grease for the palms of state and local politicians? Or is OTB and racetracks somehow just "less evil" ?

Please. Give me a break.


There's a total double-standard for horses vs. other types of gambling. Just look at the bullshit legislation that passed 1 or 2 yrs ago banning bank transfers to online gaming websites. There was a SPECIFIC carve-out in the law to exempt horse racing from the law - i.e. it's OK to place bets on horses online. The rest of us who want to play poker online get shut down but the horse racing people are fine.

I think you're right, maybe they just know how to handle the politicians better than other forms of gambling. Somehow it became more socially acceptable to bet on horses than to bet on blackjack or poker. I don't get it myself because unless you're an expert handicapper, the average joe has just as good a chance to lose their money on the ponies as they do on a turn of the roulette wheel.

If the goal is to prevent people from being degenerates - why let them bet on horses? In the land of the free i say spend your money on whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt others...

Posted on: 2008/2/10 16:10
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Dwntownguy wrote:
Casinos in Hudson County are a bad idea


Asking a Hudson County Politician to control himself/ herself around the casino money, is like asking my fat nephew to control himself around a cookie jar and a pint of ice cream


If they put up a casino at the Meadowlands, I probably wouldn't go to it but how is this any different than the racetrack with parimutuel betting that is already there (which includes the betting on simulcast horseraces from other tracks) ? I can just as easily blow my whole paycheck at the racetrack, why is it always less controversial?

Come to think of it, there's an Off-Tracking Betting (OTB) facility one block from where I work in Manhattan which I have never entered and again, I could blow my whole paycheck there too. Yet about ten years ago, a couple of companies tried launch casino cruises from Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn and mayor Giuliani went apeshit, throwing up every roadblock he could to make it difficult for them to operate, until it became unprofitable and they were forced to close. But the OTB facilities, right in Manhattan and other locations around the city remain open.

Here's a bet I'd like to take - do the OTB & racetrack people have a lot more grease for the palms of state and local politicians? Or is OTB and racetracks somehow just "less evil" ?

Please. Give me a break.

Posted on: 2008/2/9 16:41
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Corzine Gets Caught in Fight Between New Jersey Casinos, Horses


By Adam L. Cataldo
Feb. 5 (Bloomberg) -- New Jersey's horse industry is racing
for its life.

Racetrack owners say they can't survive unless they are
allowed to install video-lottery terminals or get a subsidy to
make up for not having them.

Governor Jon Corzine doesn't want to legalize the video
games outside Atlantic City because they might hurt casinos'
business. The casinos, already facing revenue losses as
neighboring states open gambling parlors, say they can't afford
to renew the $20 million subsidy they paid for four years.

More horse owners may move their operations elsewhere
unless New Jersey's four tracks find a way to fatten their
purses, which have shrunk as betting declined. The breeders and
tracks contribute $1.1 billion a year to the state economy,
according to a study by the Rutgers Equine Science Center.

``The clock is ticking,'' said Senate President Richard
Codey, a horse-racing fan. ``If they don't do anything quick,
especially with the subsidy, all hell is going to break loose.''
Eleven states already have so-called racinos, combined
racetracks and casinos. New York has eight and Pennsylvania's
sixth is opening this month.

Revenue from the video lottery terminals allows tracks to
offer bigger race purses. VLTs are similar to slot machines but
are hooked up to a central computer that randomly generates
winning numbers. Slot machines, which account for most of
Atlantic City casinos' revenues, each pick winners separately.

Corzine in Middle

Corzine said last week that his administration is
negotiating with both sides. He says he wants to help horse
racing without hurting Atlantic City, which has had a state
monopoly on casino gaming since it was legalized in 1976.

``It would be very undermining, or potentially undermining,
of what I see as a huge investment coming to Atlantic City to
make it a real destination resort and create tens of thousands
of jobs,'' Corzine, a first-term Democrat, said in an interview.

Lawmakers say New Jersey's horse industry will perish if a
solution isn't found. The tracks and breeders pay about $63
million annually in state and local taxes, according to the
Rutgers study.

Wagering on New Jersey horse races declined 25 percent to
$924 million in 2006 from 1999, according to a state-
commissioned study released last year by Christiansen Capital
Advisors, a New York gaming-research firm.

The survey showed that purses are shrinking in New Jersey
and increasing in New York and Pennsylvania, and the trend is
projected to continue. That's encouraging owners of the best
horses to leave, said Michael Harrison, president of the
Thoroughbred Breeders' Association of New Jersey.

Disappearing Horses

Joe Jennings of Monmouth County said 25 of the 150 mares he
bred last year were moved to Pennsylvania.

``If the breeding industry dies in New Jersey, there is no
hope for the racing industry,'' Jennings said.

The casinos say they shouldn't have to continue subsidizing
horse racing.

``For them to blame us for their failure is ridiculous,''
said Joseph Corbo, president of the Casino Association of New
Jersey. ``Even if that were the case, so what? Is Smith Corona
looking for a subsidy from IBM?''

Legislation to place 5,000 video-lottery terminals at the
Meadowlands racetrack in East Rutherford failed in 2005, opposed
by casino owners including Caesars Entertainment Inc. and Trump
Entertainment Resorts Inc.

State Senator Paul Sarlo introduced the measure again last
month and asked the casino group to drop its objections.

``New Jersey needs to develop a united front to preserve
all elements of our gaming industry,'' wrote Sarlo, a Democrat
whose district includes the Meadowlands Racetrack. The others
are Monmouth Park Racetrack, Freehold Raceway and Atlantic City
Race Course.

Corzine Turnabout

Corzine advocated video-lottery terminals in his budget
address a year ago, saying they could raise money to help fix
the state's finances. That was before the Christiansen report
found that the machines would hurt casinos.

Atlantic City casinos' revenue declined last year for the
first time, to $4.92 billion, which they blame on competition
from other states and restrictions on smoking.

The casinos purchase $2.2 billion of goods and services in
the state each year and generate $1.1 billion of state tax
revenue annually, according to the industry group.

The industry has made $12 billion of capital investment
since its inception, and $10 billion more is planned, Corbo
said. Those projects could be scaled back or canceled if video-
lottery machines take away business, he said.

``Installing VLTs at the racetracks would make us seriously
reconsider any further investment in Atlantic City,'' said
Thomas Hickey, a spokesman for Trump Entertainment, which owns
three casinos there. ``The potential exists for it to have a
negative impact on our market.''

--With reporting by Terrence Dopp in Trenton. Editors: Stacie
Servetah, Brenda Batten

To contact the reporter on this story:
Adam L. Cataldo in New York at +1-212-617-5227 or
acataldo@bloomberg.net.

Posted on: 2008/2/5 19:49
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VIDEO GAMES FOR MEADOWLANDS?
State to eye vid machines

Thursday, April 05, 2007
By GREG HANLON
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Are video lottery terminals coming to the Meadowlands Racetrack?

The state Treasury Department will commission a study to determine if the terminals - which are similar in appearance to video slot machines, but have payouts determined at random by a centralized computer - could raise hundreds of millions of dollars without hurting Atlantic City casinos.

While the study stops far short of his proposal for a full casino in the Meadowlands, Assemblyman Louis Manzo, D-Jersey City, called the terminals "a great idea."

"Estimates are that these machines can bring hundreds of millions of dollars per year. That's a significant amount of money for offsetting other expenditures in the state budget."

Treasury spokesman Tom Vincz said the department plans on hiring a consultant to do a comprehensive study of how the terminals, if legalized, would impact state finances.

South Jersey legislators, however, are ready for a fight: they say the terminals could lure customers away from Atlantic City's casinos, which have lost business since neighboring Pennsylvania opened casinos in January.

Manzo has proposed a plan that he said would appease the South Jersey delegation, calling on revenues from the VLTs to be split down the middle. Under his proposal, half of the revenues would go to the Atlantic City Casino Association and half would go to the state.

"This latest proposal should at least get them to the table," said Manzo, who added he was "awaiting a meeting with the Casino Association to see if we can work out an arrangement that satisfies them."

This state announcement comes as industry figures released this week show that gross operating profits of Atlantic City casinos are up 5 percent - nearly $1.4 billion, up from $1.3 billion in 2005.

Nevertheless, Atlantic City has been feeling the heat from slots parlors recently opened in Pennsylvania and New York. The city's casinos spent $1.67 billion in promotional expenses last year, up nearly 7 percent.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Posted on: 2007/4/5 13:12
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Slots in the swamp - Casino could come to Meadowlands
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Slots in the swamp - Casino could come to Meadowlands

Mark J. Bonamo - Hudson Reporter -- 03/25/2007


BOARDWALK NORTH? ? Casino development could soon be coming to the Meadowlands region.

If Hudson County Assemblyman Louis Manzo (D-31st Dist.) has his way, the sight of slot machines flashing and the sound of roulette wheels spinning might soon arrive in the Meadowlands.

In an attempt to raise revenue for the region and ameliorate New Jersey's burgeoning debt, Manzo has raised the ante by backing a referendum that would allow the area to host casino gambling, an economic option that is currently only allowed in Atlantic City.

Manzo also wants to create conditions that would allow the introduction of slot machines at the Meadowlands Racetrack in nearby East Rutherford.

Casinos could create cash

Manzo, whose district includes all of Bayonne and parts of Jersey City, put his cards on the table when he explained his initiative and the potential benefits of bringing the gaming industry to the Meadowlands region.

"We want to go to the voters with a referendum to ratify putting casinos in the Meadowlands in the same way that it was done in Atlantic City in the 1970s," he said. "We're not changing any existing law. We're creating a new law that would amend the New Jersey constitution."

Manzo noted that the potential introduction of the gaming industry to the Meadowlands could also boost a venture that many observers see as a dice roll: the Xanadu entertainment and retail project, tentatively scheduled to open in 2008.

The controversial $2 billion development has suffered a series of setbacks, including construction delays, cost overruns, lawsuits, and severe financial problems suffered by the original developer, the Mills Corp.

The project is now under the guidance of Colony Capital, a Los Angeles-based investment firm, which obtained control of the development in November 2006. The deal was approved by the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority (NJSEA), which oversees the Meadowlands sports complex.

"This plan jumpstarts Xanadu and potentially saves it from the scrap heap," Manzo said. "The economy has turned a little bit, and there doesn't seem to be the incentive to invest the revenue needed to get Xanadu up and running. A casino would generate immense pressure to get Xanadu off the ground, because Xanadu's investors and builders would want to get it going by the time the casino gets there."

Manzo's plan includes the construction of only one casino, with the number of slot machines to be determined by population and other economic factors. Manzo also hopes to tax Meadowlands gambling profits by 50 percent, with the accumulated revenue to be used to help pay off New Jersey's debt, estimated to be as high as $100 billion.

Better than selling roads

Manzo believes his idea is better than other ideas recently introduced to tackle the deficit, including the proposed privatization of the New Jersey Turnpike.

"When you sell state roads, there is a consequence," he said. "Now that Indiana has privatized its toll roads, the toll rates are going to rise 70 percent through 2011. Meanwhile, the roadway conditions in Indiana have seriously deteriorated since privatization. The hundreds of millions of dollars that casinos could generate for New Jersey would pay down the debt, which would then make funds available for needed social programs for the elderly and for children."

Some critics of Manzo's plan maintain that it would harm the gaming business in Atlantic City, which is already facing serious challenges from new casinos and slot machines in nearby Pennsylvania, Connecticut and upstate New York.

However, Manzo stated that his plan could actually wind up helping southern New Jersey's gambling Mecca.

"Atlantic City has lost a lot of north Jersey clientele lately," he said. "But in Nevada, Reno and Las Vegas have enhanced each other's situation. When you go to Reno, you see advertisements for a different type of gambling atmosphere in Las Vegas, and vice versa. The same thing could happen here. The Meadowlands and Atlantic City could actually complement each other and reinforce New Jersey's position as the number two gambling spot in the United States."

Manzo noted that he is ready to sit down with Atlantic City officials to make a casino deal that would leave both parties with a full house.

"We are scheduling meetings with the Casino Association of New Jersey (an Atlantic City-based gaming industry trade group that represents 9 out of 11 Atlantic City casinos) and South Jersey legislators over their concerns about our proposal," he said. "I'm not adverse to making sure a significant percentage of our profits goes to continued urban redevelopment in Atlantic City. We hope to get this on the November 2007 ballot, so it would have to pass in the state legislature by June."

Concerns of competing Chambers of Commerce

One of the officials that Manzo is likely to woo is Jeffrey Vasser, executive director of the Atlantic City Convention and Visitors Authority. Vasser considered Manzo's Meadowlands casino concept with an open mind.

"I haven't seen what Assemblyman Manzo has proposed, but at the end of the day, it's Governor Corzine's call," he said. "He's studying the impact of video lottery terminals [or VLTs, which are similar to slot machines], and he has been committed to the success of Atlantic City. He is certainly not going to sign off on anything that's going to hurt the investment that's been made here."

Vasser noted that Atlantic City and the gaming industry as a whole has to reinvest in itself by reconsidering what it takes to succeed.

"If somebody simply wants to pull a lever on a slot machine, they aren't going to have to go very far from home in the very near future," he said. "We need to give people a compelling reason to come to Atlantic City, and it's no longer our slot machines. It's going to be our entertainment, dining, nightlife, beach, golf courses, Boardwalk and other full service destination non-gaming amenities that are going to make the difference."

Vasser added that along with the new rebranding of Atlantic City, redevelopment will continue.

"In the past 10 years, about a third of the housing stock in the city has been replaced, led by the efforts of the state Casino Reinvestment Development Authority (which is funded by a tax of casino earnings). The CRDA has also committed over $100 million to fixing up all of the facades along the Boardwalk. Many people come to Atlantic City with old and negative perceptions of the place, and we're going to convert them into regular customers when they see what's taking place. Our business has seen a dip in the last couple of months, but in the long term we are going to be fine."

Up the Garden State Parkway in north Jersey, Jim Kirkos, president of the Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce, had a cautious assessment of Manzo's proposal.

"I am very much in favor of slot machines at the Meadowlands, but I haven't yet assessed the impact of a casino," he said. "My initial reaction is that I'm more supportive of slot machines and VLT's being placed at the Meadowlands racetrack because it would be complimentary to existing investment."

When asked how much the fortunes of a casino would be intertwined with the future of the Xanadu project and the Continental sports arena, Kirkos said, "I believe that Xanadu and the arena are perfectly complementary. A casino may draw a totally different crowd, as opposed to a complementary crowd. But knowing the casino industry and their opposition to even slot machines or VLT's at the racetrack, I think that there could be a big fight over this. We probably have a better chance at getting slot machines or VLT's rather than a single full-fledged casino, which could seriously help the racetrack. We have to look at the proposal further before we come to any conclusions."

Mark J. Bonamo can be reached at mbonamo@hudsonreporter.com.

Posted on: 2007/3/25 9:14
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Quote:
Almost half of Hudson County residents support a Jersey City lawmaker's proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands


So, more than half DON"T support it, and a third actually oppose the casino.

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with a third saying they'd go to that casino at least once a month


A third of that half - or 15% - are looking forward to having an alternative to the voluntary tax that is the NJ lottery.

Posted on: 2007/3/23 17:38
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Is Xanadu really in limbo? I thought Mills was bought by Simon Property and the project was moving forward.

Is Xanadu in Hudson County? address is East Rutherford which is Bergen.

If the casino is gonna happen, it should be contingent upon the completion of the light rail link and the NJTransit link.

Posted on: 2007/3/23 13:55
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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And 100% of the criminal elements in JC are supporting it, organised crime gangs, loan sharks, pawn shops, petty criminals, corrupt law enforcement, politicians and public servants, money laundering crimes and any and every criminal act that can be attributed to a casino are hoping like hell this casino is built.

Posted on: 2007/3/23 11:18
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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right on, fatass.


I HATE THIS IDEA.

Posted on: 2007/3/23 10:23
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Casinos in Hudson County are a bad idea


Asking a Hudson County Politician to control himself/ herself around the casino money, is like asking my fat nephew to control himself around a cookie jar and a pint of ice cream

Posted on: 2007/3/22 19:19
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Why stop at a casino, lets have one arm bandits at bus, light-rail and PATH stops. Lets line them up next to school lockers and mini ones as parking meters........This will be another fcked up decision made for a quick grab for cash and taxes without the social consequences or impact.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 18:54
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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GrovePath wrote:
If a casino is built in Meadowlands, Hudson will come

Thursday, March 22, 2007
By GREG HANLON
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

...with a third saying they'd go to that casino at least once a month, ...

In addition, six out of 10 respondents said they'd go to the casino at least once a year, including nearly 12 percent who said they'd go once a week and 22 percent who said they'd go once a month. Thirty-six percent said they'd never go.
...

The poll shows that Hudson County residents like going to Atlantic City: 17.7 percent of respondents say they go "frequently"....


Maybe this should be merged with the foreclosure thread.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 17:15
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Re: Almost half of Hudson County residents support proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands
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Youy can hear the soandex-clad thighs chaffing for miles around. There is a potential Sopranos storyline in this somewhere............

Posted on: 2007/3/22 14:33
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Yes, how glam, slot machines in the middle of the swamp.

Posted on: 2007/3/22 14:26
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If a casino is built in Meadowlands, Hudson will come

Thursday, March 22, 2007
By GREG HANLON
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Almost half of Hudson County residents support a Jersey City lawmaker's proposal to bring a casino to the Meadowlands - with a third saying they'd go to that casino at least once a month, according to a recent The Jersey Journal/New Jersey City University poll.

"It would appear that, with the original Xanadu project slated for the Meadowlands in limbo and the loss the Nets to Brooklyn, casino gaming might help restore some luster to the development at the Meadowlands," concluded the poll's authors, NJCU Political Science professor Fran Moran and English professor Bruce Chadwick.

Just 28.4 percent of those polled said they oppose the idea, floated by Assemblyman Louis Manzo, D-Jersey City, to bring a casino to the Meadowlands.

In addition, six out of 10 respondents said they'd go to the casino at least once a year, including nearly 12 percent who said they'd go once a week and 22 percent who said they'd go once a month. Thirty-six percent said they'd never go.

But if Manzo's bill is to get very far in the Assembly, it must overcome what is sure to be a formidable challenge from the Atlantic City delegation, whose city would lose its monopoly on the New Jersey gaming industry.

The poll shows that Hudson County residents like going to Atlantic City: 17.7 percent of respondents say they go "frequently" and 41.4 percent say they go "sometimes." Thirty-five percent say they never go.

Moran and Chadwick speculated that a Meadowlands casino would substantially cut into the portion of the Hudson County populace that visits casinos.

"Atlantic City casinos would likely lose customers and the revenue they bring from the northern counties of the state and possibly New York City," they wrote.

"And that prospect, despite the potential benefits a casino could do to rescue the Meadowlands development, will probably be sufficient to sink Manzo's proposal into the swamps of North Jersey."

Posted on: 2007/3/22 13:20
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