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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Home away from home
 
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Where do you think those displaced train commuters will go? Many, if not all will get on at Newark and Harrison. The PATH trains will be absolutely packed before even getting to JSQ. Forget about DTJC.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 3:13
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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I doubt it, NJT and AmTrak use the tunnel, to transport commuters from the burbs. JC commuters mainly use. PATH. It will make DTJC even more attractive.
Posted on: 2015/7/1 3:02
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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If any of this comes to pass, it will demolish property values in Jersey City, especially downtown.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 23:38
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2015/6/30 23:19
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Agreed. Infrastructure projects like this should be federally funded. No other country in the world hits up local taxpayers for this kind of development.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 21:52
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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ARC Tunnel-bend over NJ taxpayers, you're going to take it up the rear and NY and the Feds will be smiling.
Yup, Christie was absolutely correct to pull the plug. If there's going to be pain, let all the stakeholders share it rather than have it rest on NJ taxpayers solely.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:39
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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So far its only been the conservative media talking about Christie's scandals and his failed leadership and New Jersey's failed economy. Here is what the liberal media is saying: "Bon Jovi and Chris Christie: It's Complicated" http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/christie-bon-jovi
Posted on: 2015/6/30 20:11
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Home away from home
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2011/11/28 22:22 Last Login : 9/8 19:51 From Jersey City yo!
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Quote:
Fixed it for ya.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 18:52
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Home away from home
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2014/9/19 1:29 Last Login : 2020/3/12 17:59 From Hamilton Park
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When the media brings up a notorious incident in which a politician unilaterally decides to kill a vitally needed regional public infrastructure project and screw over his constituents in order to bolster his credentials for national office on the same day said politician announces he is running for president, it's not a smear - it's fair game. It's a reminder that the people of north NJ will still be suffering on crowded and delayed trains long after Christie's absurd presidential ambitions are a punchline on the late night talk shows.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 17:53
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Home away from home
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Bullshit thread meant to coincide with today's Christie's announcement. Election year smear campaign.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 17:30
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Public employees ARE the middle-class. The problem is not that these people are earning middle-class salaries, the problem is that corporations and the wealthy have shifted the tax burden from them to the middle-class. Instead of paying a fair share of taxes, the wealthy hide their assets, set up trusts, write off expenses as part of doing business, and reduce their effective tax rate through loopholes. Corporations are worse, moving assets overseas often paying nothing at all, or even getting back rebates.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:43
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Government workers should receive healthcare, pensions, and middle-class wages whether or not they are in a union. Those basics should be the foundation of any relationship between laborer and employer.
Unions in the private sector empower laborers who as individuals lack agency in their ability to bargain for healthcare, pensions and middle-class wages. Employers have power that laborers never will unless they are organized as a union, and employers will use that power to take advantage of their laborers. For public employee unions, even if you assume that the government as a employer will behave like a government and look out for the interests of the people, public unions are still necessary because they protect against patronage. Public employee unions are intended to prevent elected officials from firing everyone when they take office and replace them with patronage jobs.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:39
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Christie's announcement today has really stirred up old frustrations from 2010 when he cancelled the tunnel.
This was a project that had been in the works since 1995, had secured support and funding commitments from the federal government, NY, NJ, the Port Authority, NJT, MTA, and no doubt dozens of other state and federal bureaucracies. After 14 years spent herding all these cats in the same direction and getting the project fully funded it is shameful that our democracy allowed one myopic and power-hungry little man to derail the entire project. He is as short-sighted about the future of NJ as he is about his own health. He is a despicable politician. I look forward to his inevitable misappropriation of campaign funds that will put him in the big house rather than the White House.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:33
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Like I said, I believe there are many structural problems in this country, all leading to the top .1% rigging the deck and squeezing everyone else. You seem to be on the same page. But public sector unions are not the fix. They squeeze the middle class even further while vigorously fighting for unsustainable benefits that will bankrupt the state. And, in the case of teachers, they vigorously oppose attempts at reform, fight to fire the best (newer) teachers while keeping the senior teachers (of any quality) in the classroom, fight charter schools because they use non unionized teachers, all to the detriment of students. And I should mention that these unsustainable benefits were given to them by politicians who simply gave away taxpayer money in exchange for votes. It's a broken system where two sides to a negotiating table use a third party's money as their primary currency, and the third party gets no say in how it is spent. So I am not sure what the solution is to the squeezing of the middle class problem is, but unions certainly aren't it. Veering way off topic, a far better way of helping stop the rot is overturning Citizens United. Or passing some kind of law that says politicians must wear NASCAR style uniforms that have patches reflecting the industries that have donated to their campaign. The more the donation, the bigger the patch. That way we can see where their true interest lies, and judge their words accordingly. I'm sure there are other helpful solutions. But perpetuating an unsustainable system is not one.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:30
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Maybe if you had paid attention in class you would know the difference between an "undeniable fact" and a partisan opinion. But I can tell you that there is now a substantial likelihood that the Supreme Court will weaken public sector unions that (in my opinion) are holding the rest of us hostage. And your laughable failure to grasp basic concepts will not change that. Further, I believe the non-union taxpayers will reap the benefits.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:24
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10 years ago I would have been in full agreement with JCMan8. But with the way the middle class has been squeezed - I've come around to the view that unions are a necessary evil - until we can figure a better way of stopping the rot.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:22
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Home away from home
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2013/3/29 21:43 Last Login : 2023/9/5 18:27 From Bergen Hill
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Maybe, just maybe, if you worked harder in school you wouldn't think that teachers and construction workers are "overpaid" and "entitled" union labor. You'd recognize how little they truly make and how effective collective bargaining is in certain situations. As someone that's actually studied the topic enough, there is both good and bad. However, it is an undeniable fact that the good outweighs the bad in the grandest measure which is the overall economic health.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:10
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Dos A Cero
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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There's a just a bit of difference between one group forcing all taxpayers to pay for their Cadillac benefits and pensions for life, and exorbitant wages for road construction costs, vs. literal slave labor. I feel sorry for you if you can't tell the difference. But progress will march on with or without you.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 16:08
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Why stop there? Why settle for not paying workers enough to live on or support their families? Why not just enslave people to do the job? Look at all the great buildings they are building in Qatar with slave labor http://screamer.deadspin.com/check-ou ... will-build-for-1704473658
Posted on: 2015/6/30 15:52
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Please. If I had a nickel for every time somebody or some group ran around screaming like Chicken Little whenever something impacts how people travel around the NYC area I'd have about $.30.
Honestly, there have been numerous times over the last 20 years where people run around saying how the sky is going to fall in regards to local travel every time there is a discussion about improvements being made to existing infrastructure or additional buildings being built. And every time the worst case scenarios predicted have never come to fruition because the dire predictions were tremendously overblown. I see no reason to think this time will be different.
Posted on: 2015/6/30 15:39
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Yes, some union shills like to think that anyone who criticizes them must be wrong. I agree that we have many structural problems but unions are certainly one of them.
Fortunately, the world has recognized that overpaid, entitled union workers are strangling progress. Today the Supreme Court announced it is taking a case challenging the right of public sector unions to forcibly take fees from those public employees who do not want to join the union. It was brought by a California teacher who does not want to be in the union, yet they charge her $650 annually anyway to cover "collective bargaining costs." The teacher's unions have been holding students hostage in exchange for their unsustainable entitlements for decades. This could finally be the break needed to weaken this force. After that, we can go after the "prevailing wage rate" laws which result in road construction costs in NJ being among the highest in the country. And then, maybe we can get that third Hudson river tunnel constructed at a reasonable cost ;)
Posted on: 2015/6/30 15:38
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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They do?? Quote:
There is certainly a bit of difference between the two nations. Travel outside Shanghai and you have entire villages where running water doesn?t exist. However, the sentiment that we should be building is one I agree on. It is a shame that we have ?leaders? that don?t actually care about their constituency. Quote:
These offices were opened because our governor gave them the land for free. Each one maintains its corporate office in NYC. The second that these businesses need to pay tax, they?ll move the office again. You only need to look at Panasonic, Goya and Prudential. They were basically paid to abandon their location and move across the street. The firms are only doing the same. Quote:
Lazy? I?d go with the work of simple minds?
Posted on: 2015/6/30 13:39
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Dos A Cero
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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Yes, strong labor unions must be the problem. It explains why Europe has such crappy infrastructure....
Blaming unions is lazy. The US has all sorts of political and structural problems above and beyond unions.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 23:58
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You can thank unions for much of that.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 23:08
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That is only one half of the story. While the trend has been to abandon suburban corporate parks, it is an undeniable trend that many, many NYC businesses (law firms, corporate giants, hedge funds and even some Wall Street firms) have moved substantial portions of their operations to urban areas outside NYC boundaries that are still within a stone throw away. One need not look further than JC's Harborside Financial Center, Exchange Place, and many other buildings in the Newport area, to see this in action. Not only is office space much cheaper, but there are other conveniences that spur these moves.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 22:36
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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shanghai (china) built 5 (4 lanes) tunnels and 4 bridgess across huangpu river within the last 20 years connecting the 2 sides of the city.
The area/setup is very similar to we have here between manhattan and nj waterfront (fort lee to jersey city). It is so sad as the most powerful nation with engineering and resources far beyond any of those developing countries, we cannot build 1 single bridge or tunnel that everyone agrees is in such high demand. The way ARC tunnel project was carried out and the amount of money wasted was shameful.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 22:33
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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New jobs - perhaps. Companies tend to accommodate existing workers if transport becomes an issue...
Posted on: 2015/6/29 22:20
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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The trend for offices have been to abandon the suburban location (see Mack-Cali's recent sell-off). Drive around NJ and you'll see nothing but "for rent" signs in front of lots of offices. Talent goes to where the money and jobs are. It is rare to find a place in NJ that pays as well as NYC...
Posted on: 2015/6/29 21:07
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Dos A Cero
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Re: The nightmare that awaits N.J. if a Hudson rail tunnel is forced to close
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I doubt it, too many qualified New Yorkers ready to be hired and take our places.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 20:08
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...or there may be a boom in satellite offices opening up in NJ - bringing jobs and income tax to the state.
Posted on: 2015/6/29 19:59
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