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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Newbie
 
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The location of the sign that was posted by DragonXJC does not appear to be properly posted in the location as in accordance to State law which I believe is questionable and could be contested especially if you happen to stop at the solid white line when the light turned red which is past the ?No Turn on Red? sign.
N.J.S.A. 39:4-183.12. Location All traffic signs shall be located as provided in subsequent sections of this act covering details of design and installation. Signs other than temporary signs in the roadway shall be placed on the right side of the roadway, except traffic signs erected on or within traffic circles, islands and safety zones. All signs shall be mounted approximately at right angles to the direction of, and facing the traffic that they are intended to serve. This section shall not prohibit location of traffic signs over the roadway.
Posted on: 2009/8/13 2:11
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Just can't stay away
 
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someone please chime in who knows, but i thought the worst that could happen to you in municipal court would be fines which, if not paid, might land you in jail. maybe low level drug offenses get prosecuted (or perhaps loitering in a known drug area?) as well? but otherwise, as far as courts go, isn't it about the least serious? i'm not trying to be trite with the 'as far as courts go', and a municipal judge no doubt has plenty of power, but c'mon it's traffic court.
Posted on: 2009/8/13 1:47
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
 
Joined:
2004/11/8 21:08 Last Login : 2020/4/4 19:36 From McGinley Square / Lincoln Park
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Sitting around for an hour waiting in the courtroom I felt really bad for the people who were there who really, really didn't understand the system and were clearly about to get screwed by it. I repeatedly saw the prosecutor talking to young guys, like 18 years old, there on serious charges with potential jail time, and asking "Do you want a public defender or will you defend yourself?". And at least half picked the 2nd choice.
The only kid I saw them take care of was one who showed up with his recruiter from the Marines and apparently was to ship off in a short time for boot camp and could not have a serious charge on his record. He had failed to turn some paperwork in on time, so the public defender could not officially take him on. But the public defender did it anyway pro-bono, and quickly worked out a way to turn a burglary charge into some violation of the municipal code with only a $250 fine. That in itself didn't bother me -- he was young, no prior record, the report didn't show that anything was actually stolen, etc -- but I'm not sure how I felt that he was taken care of while others got zero help.
Posted on: 2009/8/13 1:21
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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In my own recent experience, there's no way to win.
The cop will flat out lie. The prosecutor will play cowboy. The judge will not believe you. It's pointless, because it's a culture and a language that has nothing to do with truth or justice, but with jargon and rule sets that favor the prosecution. In my case I was completely innocent, and could not on principal lie to the court and plead guilty. But that lie is the standard operating procedure of traffic court. I watched so many people spit out the word "guilty," and knew full well that they (whether they were actually guilty or not) did not believe themselves to be guilty, and were standing there, with no recourse but to lie. It's a dragooning!
Posted on: 2009/8/13 0:05
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I had the privilege to witness someone fighting a ticket in traffic court. In this poor guys case he had to make an illegal lane change because the left he wanted to take was closed due to construction. He got stuck in the intersection in the left turn lane and had to sit tight till traffic cleared out then continued straight from the left turn lane. He made a clear argument that he had no choice but to go straight, but it didn't matter. The judge said that she understood the circumstances, but had no choice but to rule with the letter of the law and found him guilty. You need to prove that you did nothing illegal or dangerous and there will be an officer and a prosecutor saying you did. They do this every day and are good at it. Best of luck to you. Oh yea. My case was rescheduled three times.
Posted on: 2009/8/12 22:30
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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You should have just appeared before the judge and complained that having several appearances violates your right to a speedy trial. The worst that would have happened is they would have said no and rescheduled. But you should NEVER cave to what they say. Always test them.
Posted on: 2009/8/12 22:03
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
Joined:
2004/11/8 21:08 Last Login : 2020/4/4 19:36 From McGinley Square / Lincoln Park
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Quote:
I just found myself in a similar situation. I got a ridiculous reckless driving ticket for what was at worst a questionable lane change. Reckless driving requires the court to prove I caused an accident or could have caused an accident, neither of which was remotely true in this case. I call the number on the back of the ticket to plead not guilty, then show up for my scheduled appearance thinking I'm there to have a trial. The prosecutor offers me unsafe driving which is 0 point, but around $300 fine. I turn them down, and am told that it's impossible to have a trial on the 1st appearance, and I have to plead not guilty in front of the judge and get a court date. Someone please explain to me why I had to call to tell them this if I have to do it in person anyway? So, they give me the date and say the officer will be subpoenaed to appear that day. I get a notice in the mail a short time later telling me my date was pushed back a week. So I show up today for trial with all my photos, research, etc. The prosecutor meets with me and offers something like blocking the flow of traffic, 0 point, $70ish fine + $30ish fee so around $100 total. I say no, telling her I'm here for my trial but don't see the officer, so I'm going to ask the judge to excuse the case. She tells me that according to her forms I'm not scheduled today for trial, the cop has not been subpoenaed, and the judge will just schedule another date. She chaulks it up to administrative error and there's nothing I can do about it. Having missed two half days of work for this garbage, I take the plea bargain and it ends up that the fine was closer to $110 and I'm out $139 total. I've been to parking court a few times (winning every time but losing lots of time in the process), and now this, and I swear they do everything possible to make the process as drawn out and difficult in order to force you to take the plea. Maybe the prosecutor lied to me today and I could have gotten it dismissed, but I couldn't risk missing more work. I know there's a recording of the 1st appearance where the judge backs up everything I said about scheduling a trial and the cop being there, but it's not like I had any power to use that to help me.
Posted on: 2009/8/12 21:46
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Not too shy to talk
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I got a speeding ticket 40 in a 25. This is a 4 point ticket. I went to court to plead it down. The prosecutor gave me the option of reducing the 4 point speeding ticket (39:4?98) to driving in an unsafe manner (39:4?97.2) with no points for $389 so I took the deal. ($106 for the ticket, $33 for court fees and $250 for the surcharge) = $389.
Two months later my monthly payments go from $105/month to $140/month. I called up GIECO and ask why have my payments gone up? I was told you have a moving violation on your record. I replied, I paid to have those points dropped. I was told, it does not matter if I have points or not, its still a moving violation. So, I ask if I kept the 4 points how much would I be paying for insurance? I was told, THE SAME AMOUNT. When I heard that, I almost dropped the phone I was so furious. I smelled blood! I paid $389 dollars to prevent my insurance from going up and it went up anyway. My advice: Only accept a plea bargain if it turns into a non-moving violation Ex seatbelt, cellphone.. ect. http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Violations/penalties.htm http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Violations/penalties_pointSchedule.htm
Posted on: 2009/6/30 19:13
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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A judge cannot offer anything, as he needs to remain impartial, or at least make it seem like he is. As for the statute of limitations, that is true for being charged with a crime or something of the ilk. If you have been given a ticket, you have already been charged with the offense listed on the front. And warrants never go away.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 18:47
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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I recall it was the judge, not the prosecutor who offered the deal, but it was a while ago. Isn't there a statute of limitations on a traffic violation? I thought murder was the only thing without one!
Posted on: 2009/6/16 15:32
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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The plea agreement in your case would most likely have you pleading down to an Unsafe Operation of a Motor Vehicle. In MY instance, my insurance company did not, and to this day has not, raised my rates because of it.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 14:35
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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One surefire way to make a traffic violation problem go away is for you to become romantically involved with the judge. Do you know who the judge will be? Hopefully it is a female judge but probably not so you better get busy dress shopping and hitting the cosmetics counter in the mall for makeup advice. Find out what bar the judge hangs out in or where he eats lunch, make yourself a fixture there. Then, when the time is right, sashay by his table and casually drop your handkerchief. You don't have much time McGrieves, you gotta work fast.
Hope this helps.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 14:27
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Just can't stay away
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I agree with the rationalization. However, I think most of us take it for granted that a no point violation has no affect on insurance. My fear now with pleading the current speeding ticket down to a no point violation is that it may be construed by the insurance companies similarly to the seat belt violation. The insurance company in question is GEICO. At the time of the increase last year, I called around to a bunch of agents and they all counted the violation in calculating my rate. Anyway, I talked to another clerk at the court to change my hearing date. She had me fax in the request. I followed up today and they told me a decision would not be made until the day of the hearing [!!] The clerk I spoke with then told me I did not have to go to the hearing and that I should call the following day to find out when the new hearing is. So, in essence, the hearing was postponed?? I really hate the way they do things - everything is done on the phone and there seems to be no way to verify something if anything goes awry.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 14:00
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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The reason that the insurance company raised his rates is based on the fact that it was a ticket for not wearing a seat belt. It shows them that he disregards safety, and that if there were an accident, it would be a higher payout if he wasn't wearing his seatbelt. I have had several no point tickets that did not affect my insurance rates.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 13:46
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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Then re-read your precious little photoshopping in the picture: "I guess he didn't look at the sign, he's about to turn." I think he did look at the sign, and then saw the light was green, then realized he could turn. Stick to talking up your New Shit Box Bar, or whatever the F that sh!thole is called now. Your kind belongs there, neanderthal!
Posted on: 2009/6/16 13:38
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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Yeah, unfortunately prosecutors will verbally bully a person into submitting. And be careful with that bench warrant. If you get pulled over in any town, for any reason, you will be arrested. I had the same thing happen to me on an old warrant for not paying a ticket. Highly incovenient, to say the least.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 13:35
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/5/6 6:21 Last Login : 2022/11/28 18:03 From Jersey City, NJ
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Got a ticket last year for going through a red light at the Holland Tunnel plaza. Went to court the first date and EVERYONE sees the procecutor first. He offered me something like $800 fine and no points, that was the plea deal!!! So I asked how much it would be if I had a trial and lost, was someting like $400 and 3 points so I told him I wanted a trial.
Went back for the trial without an attorney, watched alot of people with moving violations appear with attorneys get the same plea deal they offered me and they all took it and thanked the court. I asked if my officer was present and they said they would call him. There were many JC officers present but my ticket was issued by a Port Authority Officer and after 3 hours of waiting for him the procecutor called me in and said he would lower the fine to $80 and I said NO I want to see the judge. So 6 minutes later I am in front of the judge and he dismisses the case. Moral of the story: do not hire a lawyer to do what you can do for yourself.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 7:42
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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2006/4/18 0:04 Last Login : 2021/10/2 19:00 From Jersey Cxxx
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IMO the only advantage of going with an Attorney is that you case will be heard before those without representation. It seems like either way you will be offered some sort of plea deal. I'm not sure how it works if the officer does not show, they may just reschedule it. It's a 50/50 chance. I would go alone and speak with the prosecutor and go with no points deal. Also, I would seriously start shopping for a new insurance company. Good Luck, MrGrieves
Posted on: 2009/6/16 1:40
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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It sounds like the insurance industry is emulating the credit card model, raise you for any reason, or none at all. Have you looked for a new insurer? I'll bet that one ticket on an otherwise clean record still makes you a catch for any agent, they spend tons on getting new customers. That's another typical business model, common also to the telecoms. Spend huge bucks getting you as a customer then treat you like shit raising rates higher than current new customers and generally treating you like their bitch figuring you're either too lazy or distracted to switch.
Posted on: 2009/6/16 1:25
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Just can't stay away
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I'm going through a similar situation now... that is, trying to figure out how the system works here in JC.
I got a totally justified speeding ticket, 15mph over the limit in a 25mph limit zone. My only defense is stupidity. I did the crime but can't afford the points. To step back a moment, a year ago I got a bogus violation for disturbing the peace and the cop, a real idiot, threw in a seat belt violation at the same time. I went to court, they threw out distrubing the peace and I pled guilty to the seat belt violation, a no point violation. Yet my insurance company (and all the others I called) held it against me and my rate went up by nearly $1000 with an otherwise squeaky clean record! But I digress. I called the court to plead not guilty to the speeding ticket. The clerk actually asked if I really wanted to plead not guilty or just plead it down to a no point violation. I was a little taken aback at her boldness but I told her I wanted no points. She said no problem, just talk to the prosecutor beforehand. I also got another court date in the mail. The court date was totally inconvenient. I called the court to try to change it but they wouldn't let me. And this time the clerk was not so forthright or helpful. She made like there was no such thing as pleading down to a no point violation. And I also wonder. Even if I plead the violation to no points, what's to prevent the insurance company from holding it against me like they did the seat belt violation? So now I'm thinking lawyer. I must have rec'd a dozen solicitations by mail from ambulance chaser lawyers. I called one in JSQ and was told pretty much what the first clerk told me - that I could likely plead it to a no point violation. He was pretty forthright and said I didn't really need a lawyer but that he could save me a lot of time and get the court date changed. And he's only $175. But he didn't know anything about insurance companies charging for no point violations. So, I'm seriously considering hiring this guy. Any thoughts?
Posted on: 2009/6/15 23:41
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/1/5 23:18 Last Login : 2022/12/16 23:23 From Greenville
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WTF I know it's green, I put the image up to illustrate the sign. It exist, you prick. The OP is NOT allowed to turn there on red. The cop has every right to give a ticket if you can't read the sign. Whether it is on the corner or not, it is visible and in the line of sight of any driver approaching the light.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 20:27
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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What you say makes sense in terms of actual law, but this is Joisey, where the law is whatever the the officious pricks say it is. I protested and asked for a dismissal, I was offered the plea deal or a new court date. When I missed the second court date they issued a bench warrant for me. For all I know, after 12 years I'm still a wanted man in Lyndhurst.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 20:13
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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He's allowed to turn there, stupid. The light is green.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 20:12
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Home away from home
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Not a myth at all. Unfortunately, you got fed a line of shit. The prosecutor can tell you anything he wants. He knows the truth, and was banking on the fact that you don't. He was right. If the officer who issued you the summons isn't present, a trial cannot take place. The reason being is your Constitutional right to face your accuser at trial. If a prosecutor tries to proceed with the trial based on "the officers written testimony" i.e. the notes on the back of the ticket, you still cannot face him, and a mistrial must be granted.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 19:58
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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I discovered this is a myth, at least in Lyndhurst. The officer was noshow, but they didn't dismiss, only offered me a no points fine instead on a ticket that was complete bullshit to begin with.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:44
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Just can't stay away
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2008/1/5 23:18 Last Login : 2022/12/16 23:23 From Greenville
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Is this the intersection? If so, there is a sign. I don't blame you for making the right. But you should always be looking out for cops in JC, at least I am. Welcome.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:42
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
Joined:
2008/1/3 19:12 Last Login : 2020/9/30 18:46 From Van Vorst Park
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OK, so would I go and plead "not guilty", or do a plea bargain? What if I plead not guilty...should I straight up say "I did not turn on red...the cop is lying" ??
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:31
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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The problem with most of these "no turn on red" signs is that they're placed too far back from the corner and mounted on a low pole and printed in plain black and white, easy to miss as you approach the intersection. Especially if there's a truck parked in front of it. I don't understand why they're not mounted up next to the traffic signal where you can't miss it.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:19
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Home away from home
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Has anyone ever fought a railroad crossing violation? It seems like there is a little more wiggle room, as one could be near/under the light when it goes red.
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:18
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Re: Traffic Ticket - Fighting It
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Newbie
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It's a little set back from the corner, but there's definitely a sign there, and has been for quite some time.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Tonnele+Ave,+Jersey+City,+Hudson,+New+Jersey&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,79.101563&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=Ffq5bQIdJeaV-w&split=0&ll=40.732121,-74.067228&spn=0.004236,0.009656&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.732039,-74.067227&panoid=NKy5rehOYFOUpnXcjZlK4w&cbp=12,212.84,,0,2.3
Posted on: 2009/6/15 16:15
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