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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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HeightsNative wrote:
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HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


I don’t care.


Then you should keep quiet.

Posted on: 5/8 21:59
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Interesting:

Letters To The Editor
The Jersey Journal


Liberty State Park better place for statue

It is interesting that Senator Lesniak is now concerned about the Katyn Memorial Statue in the Exchange Place area of Jersey City. The reason I note this is that he was not there when it was installed or dedicated.

Mayor Anthony Cucci was not there also. I was there because I was the mayor and had expressed opposition to it being there even then. This statue had only one purpose for Mayor Cucci and that was politics. It did not work since he was defeated overwhelmingly in 1989 coming in 4th place in a field of 10. As a result, he did not show up for the dedication of the statue.

Another glaring abuse of power was when the Grundy Park was dedicated and operating, I was the mayor. In 1990, Mayor Cucci put his name on a plaque taking credit for a park he had absolutely nothing to do with. It took us two years just to get the permit to put the park over the water. Councilman Cucci opposed all the development of the waterfront including everything in the Exchange Place area.

When he became mayor though he started solely the residential tax abatement boom that damaged the economy that I had envisioned. I opposed tax abatement in Newport except for the commercial development. Once the residential tax abatements started it was never stopped. It was not needed then at all. It was the greed of the property owners that caused the problems.

We sold Lefrak the land for mostly $5,000 an acre plus he received a $40 million Urban Development Action Grant from the city to pay for infrastructure. Lefrak has done a great job in the development but he also made billions in return. He does not need tax abatements any longer.

The statue's original location was further up on Montgomery Street which the city ordinance provided. The momentum for the present location was falsely initiated by the statue committee. The statue should be removed from the present location because it never had legal authority to be there in the first place.

A much more appropriate location would be in Liberty State Park where millions of people visit every year. Exchange Place is a business district and transportation hub. Although the horrors of the event may serve as a historical fact, it has nothing to do with Jersey City or even America. There have been atrocities all over the world before and after Katyn.

This is turning into a political battle which was its original purpose that most people who were there then no longer are concerned. I do not know Mr. DeMarco but his logic is sound. Senator Lesniak's comparison to the cross of Jesus Christ is a very disrespectful statement. The cross is a symbol of Christ's sacrifice for even Lesniak.

Far more Ukrainians, Jews and common Polish people were killed than the Polish military officers the statue is depicted to represent. The Russian people also suffered millions in losses because of the war to fight Nazism. President Putin was not even born when this happened, but somehow Lesniak even connected him to the statue.

Senator Lesniak should keep his politics in Union County and Elizabeth and let Jersey City decide what is best for Jersey City. Poland's future President Lech Walesa's father lived here in Jersey City at the time and even he was not at the dedication. He was with Ronald Reagan though at Liberty State Park in 1980.

Gerald McCann, former mayor of Jersey City




Posted on: 5/8 21:49
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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HeightsNative wrote:
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HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.


I don’t care.

Posted on: 5/8 21:26
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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I can't believe the sculptor goes by "Audrey".

Posted on: 5/8 20:44
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Judge Grants Temporary Stay On Plans To Remove Controversial Statue In Jersey City
May 8, 2018 at 7:26 pm


JERSEY CITY, N.J. (CBSNewYork) — A judge on Tuesday granted a temporary stay on plans to remove a statue that’s been the source of controversy due to its graphic nature.

It stands in Jersey City, and depicts a scene of violence in an effort to honor fallen soldiers.

More

Read the Lawsuit

Posted on: 5/8 20:16
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Quote:

HCResident wrote:
If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.


To be fair, the debate over aesthetics is subjective and everyone will feel what they feel.

What is not up for debate is Fulops handling of the situation. No community input or discussion, and outright bigotry on Twitter in the style of Trump. It's disgusting and he is disgusting.

Posted on: 5/8 19:40
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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If I’m correct, it’s being moved to the corner of Washington and Montgomery. That’s two and a half blocks away.

All this brouhaha over two and a half blocks?

Oh, just for the record, I think it’s ugly. I used to live in Paulus Hook. I moved there in 2000. I thought it was ugly then, as I do now. It is not a welcoming image to the city.

And...my grandmother was the first child of her Polish born parents to be born on American soil. You can disagree with my opinion, but do not mistaken it for an anti Polish sentiment.

Posted on: 5/8 18:30
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Steve Fulop on radio 101.5 this morning discussing Katyn memorial -

https://youtu.be/uZvPhKl1wFs

Posted on: 5/8 16:35
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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U P D A T E

Boggiano interviewed at beginning & Actual Press Conference start @14:46 time marker

https://www.facebook.com/MyMinute/videos/2089063394457132/

Posted on: 5/8 15:47
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2 more Lawsuits for JC taxes to defend, brought to you by Mayor Fulop's Outrageous & Insulting Behavior !

......https://www.facebook.com/pg/MyMinute/videos/?ref=page_internal [starts at 14:46 marker]

Posted on: 5/8 13:39
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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Interesting noontime presser.... curious if the new hotel in Exchange Place had an influence on the removal? Was there some sort of sweetheart deal to remove the statue as part of the hotel construction plan, once it opened?

Let's not forget the statue is in across from the NYC 911 Memorial and the 1848 Irish Famine Memorial. That Memorial is a across from The Conrad. Not sure it is a bad thing to educate people about the history of the neighborhood they are visiting. Isn't that what the Colgate clock is about?

Posted on: 5/8 13:08
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LOL, you're a funny guy. What does any of this have to do with how horribly your boy Fulop has handled this whole situation? Are you seriously trying to defend his Trumpian Twitter storm? Seriously? Is your stance that Steve is being the consumate statesman? You truly are delusional. And you're insutling an entire population by suggesting moving an incredibly important moment to some place out of the way? What is wrong with you? Nevermind, we all know, LOL.

I'll fill you in on something though. When you mute on nj.com, it doesn't keep me from seeing your inane posts and replying to them LOL. It just keeps you from seeing the responses, derp.

One more correction - 80% of the 14% who voted, voted for Steve, LOL. Hardly resounding.

Lastly, I am with you buddy, I am glad Healy and Mats are gone from JC politics. Never voted for them, never will. I am not sure why you keep repeating such drivel, but you do. Talk about creepy!

Quote:

neverleft wrote:
Quote:

HeightsNative wrote:
It's a disaster because steve has handled this in an incredibly crass, rude and insensitive way. A way that is completely unbecoming of a mayor of a city like JC. Please stop copying and pasting the same nonsense as well. Your comments are equally disgusting in defense of your idol. We get it, he can do no wrong in your eyes. Even I am being respectful in this, despite our personal animosity.


As I have stated before you are the biggest douchbag I have ever encountered. Not only have you been stalking me for 2 years on nj.com replying to every single post I have written within minutes of me posting them. (around 900 replies directed at me) You actually cloned my Sound Machine name and avatar as Spin Machine. You also follow me around the internet and warn people that I am a big time Fulop supporter. No Duh..80% of JC voters are too.

I am so pleased that nj.com changed its comment section so I could just mute you out like you never existed I wish JCLst would use the same software.

You need help it is so creepy how you follow me around because I said bad things about your guys Healy and his clone Matsikoudis and you are somehow going to get back at me. Get over it …the names Healy and Matsikoudis are forever gone in JC politics. (except for the memory of the 9 shitty years we had to endure them)

.

Posted on: 5/8 12:50
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Re: Okay, so who here thinks the Katyn monument needs to go?
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HeightsNative wrote:
It's a disaster because steve has handled this in an incredibly crass, rude and insensitive way. A way that is completely unbecoming of a mayor of a city like JC. Please stop copying and pasting the same nonsense as well. Your comments are equally disgusting in defense of your idol. We get it, he can do no wrong in your eyes. Even I am being respectful in this, despite our personal animosity.


As I have stated before you are the biggest douchbag I have ever encountered. Not only have you been stalking me for 2 years on nj.com replying to every single post I have written within minutes of me posting them. (around 900 replies directed at me) You actually cloned my Sound Machine name and avatar as Spin Machine. You also follow me around the internet and warn people that I am a big time Fulop supporter. No Duh..80% of JC voters are too.

I am so pleased that nj.com changed its comment section so I could just mute you out like you never existed I wish JCLst would use the same software.

You need help it is so creepy how you follow me around because I said bad things about your guys Healy and his clone Matsikoudis and you are somehow going to get back at me. Get over it …the names Healy and Matsikoudis are forever gone in JC politics. (except for the memory of the 9 shitty years we had to endure them)

.

Posted on: 5/8 12:42
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Follow this page for live stream of Y&B press conference @ noon in city hall council chambers::::
https://www.facebook.com/MyMinute/

Posted on: 5/8 12:01
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It's a disaster because steve has handled this in an incredibly crass, rude and insensitive way. A way that is completely unbecoming of a mayor of a city like JC. Please stop copying and pasting the same nonsense as well. Your comments are equally disgusting in defense of your idol. We get it, he can do no wrong in your eyes. Even I am being respectful in this, despite our personal animosity.

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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
I spoke to Councilman Boggiano yesterday and he said he brought someone over from the Polish Embassy to speak with Fulop and the mayor refused to speak with him. What a disgrace.


It’s interesting how some news sources are reporting this as an “international issue”. Because of that I was under the impression that the Katyn Memorial was gifted to Jersey City by the Polish government and it would be a slap in the face to move something that was accepted as a gift from another country.

I later found out that the Katyn Memorial was created by a JC resident who had a dream of seeing a Katyn Memorial in JC. He came up with the idea, designed it, accepted donations to have it made, and got the city to find a place for it. That place was on the median strip at 75 Montgomery Street. Somehow it wound up at Exchange Place.

What is the harm of putting it where is was originally intended to go? Some say it would be disrespectful to have it on a median yet the JCPD Fallen Officers Memorial is on the same median down the street near Marin Blvd. Some say how can a yearly observance be conducted in the middle of a busy street. Well rt 1&9 is shut down every year for the ceremony marking the deaths of the two JCPD officers who died at the Lincoln Bridge. Just get a permit and shut down the intersection for a few hours.

PS – they should really move it to in the Skyway Park (aka Marion Green Way Park) along the Hackensack River over on rt 440/1&9 near Sip Avenue. It would have the General Pulaski Skyway as a great back drop.

Posted on: 5/8 11:42
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I spoke to Councilman Boggiano yesterday and he said he brought someone over from the Polish Embassy to speak with Fulop and the mayor refused to speak with him. What a disgrace.


It’s interesting how some news sources are reporting this as an “international issue”. Because of that I was under the impression that the Katyn Memorial was gifted to Jersey City by the Polish government and it would be a slap in the face to move something that was accepted as a gift from another country.

I later found out that the Katyn Memorial was created by a JC resident who had a dream of seeing a Katyn Memorial in JC. He came up with the idea, designed it, accepted donations to have it made, and got the city to find a place for it. That place was on the median strip at 75 Montgomery Street. Somehow it wound up at Exchange Place.

What is the harm of putting it where is was originally intended to go? Some say it would be disrespectful to have it on a median yet the JCPD Fallen Officers Memorial is on the same median down the street near Marin Blvd. Some say how can a yearly observance be conducted in the middle of a busy street. Well rt 1&9 is shut down every year for the ceremony marking the deaths of the two JCPD officers who died at the Lincoln Bridge. Just get a permit and shut down the intersection for a few hours.

PS – they should really move it to in the Skyway Park (aka Marion Green Way Park) along the Hackensack River over on rt 440/1&9 near Sip Avenue. It would have the General Pulaski Skyway as a great back drop.

Posted on: 5/8 11:36
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If this press conference is anything but a call to get community input, Fulop should be recalled immediately. This is a disgrace and beneath the office.

Posted on: 5/8 11:27
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Epic screwup by Fulop. Why bring a shit storm on yourself?

Posted on: 5/8 10:54
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Press conference @ City Hall Council Chambers TODAY at NOON

Posted on: 5/8 10:44
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I spoke to Councilman Boggiano yesterday and he said he brought someone over from the Polish Embassy to speak with Fulop and the mayor refused to speak with him. What a disgrace.

Posted on: 5/8 9:29
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Whether to move the Katyn monument is the wrong question. Exchange Place is the prime location for virtually all major JC cultural events. And Exchange Place should pay tribute to the full diversity of JC.

What should be given pride of place at Exchange Place? The 9-11 memorial? A cenotaph? Something else?

Posted on: 5/7 18:42
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My understanding is that local Poles still commemorate anniversaries of the Katyn massacre at the memorial. If Fulop moves it to the median, how the hell are they going to do that?

I say move it to the tip of the Morris Canal Park.

Posted on: 5/7 9:16
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It is a gruesome, but I am used to it now. If I had my choice, I’d rather not see it. Though, it might be better to put it to a vote. How many people in jersey city are of polish ancestry? Is the statue still relevant?

Posted on: 5/7 9:01
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light12v wrote:According to The One to be OBEYED


Did you mean Mack Cali?



NO.
'86 ordinance to original location was voted by JC city council.

'89 resolution to relocate to its present location was voted by JC city council.

NOW this Move, desired by a Fulop friendly Developer, is all of a sudden Mandated by Executive Tweet ??

https://twitter.com/StevenFulop/status/992762417036890114


Posted on: 5/6 23:24
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.
Fulop: '100%' WWII monument will be moved
updated 8:25 PM; Posted 5:47 PM (5/6/2018)
By Caitlin Mota The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY — The Exchange Place monument to the victims of a 1940 Polish massacre is "100% being moved" three blocks west from its longtime home, Mayor Steve Fulop said on social media Saturday morning.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... d.html#incart_2box_hudson

Posted on: 5/6 21:18
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What are the NA positions on this? If so many local residents are opposed to moving this, why are the NAs not making statements to the mayor as such? Or has Yvonne effectively ordered them to keep quiet?


This is not about me nicky, although I do have a great deal of respect for the Polish people. I actually remember reading about St. Maximum Kolbe who gave his life for a Jewish man about to be executed by the Nazi. Kolbe was a Catholic priest who wrote articles condemning Nazis for rounding up Jewish people. When someone escaped from a Nazi camp, ten people was chosen to be executed, a Jewish man was in that list and cried because he had a wife and children. So Maximilian Kolbe volunteered to take his place. The Nazis went after the Jews but the Polish people did not fare well during the war. According to wikianswers, 3 million Catholic Polish people died under the Nazis regime.

Posted on: 5/6 16:30
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What are the NA positions on this? If so many local residents are opposed to moving this, why are the NAs not making statements to the mayor as such? Or has Yvonne effectively ordered them to keep quiet?

Posted on: 5/6 15:58
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light12v wrote:According to The One to be OBEYED


Did you mean Mack Cali?


Posted on: 5/6 15:16
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(I found the below post #10 (2009/3/10 9:36) on this thread. I thought it was interesting. I didn’t realize the memorial is at Exchange Place because of one man’s push to get a Katyn Memorial in JC. BTW the READ MORE link is dead but his obit is still out there on the internet)



Quote:

MelissaSurach wrote:
I don't understand why people think that the artist didn't research the massacre before designing it. Stop talking out of your ass.

This is the latest article from the Jersey Journal on it.

Stanley Paszul, 85; got Katyn Memorial built
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
By TOM SHORTELL
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Stanley Paszul, 85, the driving force behind the Katyn Memorial at Exchange Place in Jersey City, died on Dec. 16.
READ MORE

By the way, it was my grandfather, who recently passed away. He worked with Andrzej Pityski, a prominent Polish sculptor. He was a carpenter. From my understanding, he made the mold for the statue. He used to have a mini war museum in his house on 7th Street. There were little wooden models of the statue all over his house. The house still says "Carpenter Shop" on it.

Posted on: 5/6 10:06
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TheBigGuy wrote:
Curious is the Mayor ever had this similar hardline view when he represented Ward E?


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light12v wrote:
In Light of the following Fulop Tweet, why is OP taking a Survey of JC Citizens.....
According to The One to be OBEYED, it is DONE :::

https://twitter.com/StevenFulop/status/992762417036890114


Not that I can recall, NEVER, as HE was Playing Reformer Councilman.
BUT Things Changed with his first term victory as Mayor.....wherein he HALTED THE WIP 90% COMPLETE REVAL before BEING SWORN IN & NOW WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT HAS PLAYED OUT !

Remember too, that the previous Ward E Councilperson under his 1st term as Boy King Mayor was HIS,,, a Team Fulop RubberStamp.....

James Solomon is Independent, so he is not Looped-In to any closed door Op's/Deals made between JC Corpoation Counsel, at Fulop's command, & opposing Attorneys.

Posted on: 5/6 0:13
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