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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.


Agreed! It would be funny if the new reval captures the 10-15% discount, resulting in even higher property taxes downtown. The result of unintended consequences.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 16:16
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I'm getting the feeling the biggest issue of this reval will be the half assed way they're valuing the land, which has become the major portion of the home value. If, as someone said, it's valuation is the remainder after subtracting construction cost, this is going to be a shitshow. Every bank appraisal I've ever had has been a work of fiction in that "replacement cost" method. If they end up with the land values per sq ft on a block all over the place people are going to sue.

On the other hand, the land value is a way to keep assessments up to date between revals. Statistical analysis should be able to show how much land is appreciating in the various sectors of the city, and the land assessment could be adjusted yearly, greatly softening the blow of a reval. It's ridiculous that currently lot values can be so disparate, you don't need to count bathrooms to know what the dirt is worth.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 16:00
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I can appreciate having another reval to capture the impact of the current one. That being said, I got the feeling that it is already captured in quite a few assessments. Just looking at friends assessment cards and my own, we seem to be in the 10-15% discount which would make a county appeal unsuccessful. I wonder it was intentional from the appraisal company.

Instead of having a single broad reval 2 years later, it would be more useful to have a plan for a rolling reval, e.g. 20% of properties every 2 years. It would fit within the 10 year mandate.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 11:16
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By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

Jersey City's long-delayed property revaluation is going so swimmingly, Mayor Steve Fulop wants to do it all again next year.

Fulop said tonight he plans to put a measure before the council in the upcoming weeks that would pave the way for a second reval in 2019, one the mayor said would readjust assessments in the wake of an expected dip in home values caused by the current reval.

"We are doing our best to make this difficult time as manageable as possible for residents because we don't want any resident to have to struggle," he said.

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Posted on: 2018/2/23 3:55
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Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Nick I see so much negativity towards Yvonne, are you a home owner and do you consider yourself affected by this reval ? Also are you pleased with the abatements and city services ? Just want to know why you do not think Yvonne's reasoning is valid.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 3:11
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HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL


You can be assured one of them will be Yvonne, who will mug for the TV cameras and repeat her lies over and over.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 2:56
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Seniors shouldn't be losing their homes when there are programs like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/index.shtml


How much ? How much do they freeze it from.

Posted on: 2018/2/23 2:23
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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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HeightsNative wrote:
Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.


I can't wait to see the pics afterwards of 5 old folks shivering in the rain LOL

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:40
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Who's organizing this sad protest?


A low information voter on NextdoorJC.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:08
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Who's organizing this sad protest?

Posted on: 2018/2/22 19:01
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My sign is going to read:

GROSSLY NEGLIGENT 30 YEAR REVAL DELAY – HOLD JC POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE!!

Posted on: 2018/2/22 18:58
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Yeah, I'm tempted to show up at the rally with a sign that says:

MAKE GREENVILLE KEEP PAYING MY TAXES!!!


This for sure. I have nothing to do on Saturday, and I was known for my crafting skills in kindergarten.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 18:57
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Yeah, I'm tempted to show up at the rally with a sign that says:

MAKE GREENVILLE KEEP PAYING MY TAXES!!!

Posted on: 2018/2/22 18:50
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Won't somebody think of all these unfortunate souls that mistakenly bought a multi-unit building, and now are sitting on huge gains in their investments? I mean, how can we expect them to dip into some of their profits to pay a fair property tax. If we don't protect them now, how else will all their money trickle down to the rest of us helpless saps that only own a single family, or don't even own a home?


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Now I see people are organizing a protest of the new assessments. I have no problem with people exercising their right to assemble, but do these people really think they are going to get sympathy?

Serious question, do people think they were, or feel, cheated in someway when they bought their property? Did they think the taxes being payed under the old assessments were fair? Did they think the taxes would never increase?

Posted on: 2018/2/22 18:03
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There's a new thread with a link showing JC's MEDIAN price went up 24% last year. Think on that, and that DT is undoubtedly higher than than. How long can you pay your taxes just from what you made last year?

Oh, and I'm wiping away tears for Yvonne's neighbor who probably makes $70k a year just from her 2 rentals and doesn't want to pay taxes on them or her own home.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 17:09
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Years ago, I tried to help a neighbor with this program. Taxes went up that year around $300 for her. According to the form, she could only deduct her unit. Then she had a 4 unit, now it is just an 3 unit due to Sandy, Fema gave her one thousand while the damage was in the $20,000 to $30,000 range. If this still exists only seniors with one family homes benefits. I hope changes were made and ignore the per unit guidelines. Because my neighbor had Social Security and her rents which kept afloat to pay taxes and other bills. I am referring to the old tax rate not the new of $35,000.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 16:00
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Seniors shouldn't be losing their homes when there are programs like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/ptr/index.shtml


Posted on: 2018/2/22 15:46
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Strawhat wrote:
Also the thousands of people who have moved in within the last few years and had kids will one day have to send them to a high school. Not sure how all these transplants are going to feel about Ferris.


An interesting point I've seen made is that the AEP programs and McNair actually damage the district schools greatly by skimming the most talented students out. I wonder what my suburban school would have been like if the top 60 out of my class of 600 had been pulled out to a magnet HS.


Yea, I've heard that plenty of times too. There is obviously some logic to it, but as a Mcnair graduate myself I'm more happy that McNair and other AEP programs exist. These programs are ultimately a benefit for people like me.

I have one main issue with the argument that Mcnair damages other schools. Yes, taking kids from Mcnair and tossing them into the other schools may raise average test scores and whatnot, but that doesn't really matter if the state of the school and the education stays the same. The focus should be to fix and upgrade these schools. Mcnair existing should not take away from that focus.

Hopefully this new tax system can get us back on the right track.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 14:20
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Parkman: "recharge their outrage"
Also Parkman: "I didn't say outrage in my original post"

Yes of course I understand sarcasm. But you're not being sarcastic. Downtowners are very outraged and their perception of what is going on is horribly misguided.

You're just one of many trying to spin this fictitious unfairness under the guise of altruism. Just stop. It's not doing any of you any favors.


Posted on: 2018/2/22 12:36
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Parkman, I at least, have never said anything about what people expected decades ago, only their current status. It's just that when people with $1-3m in equity plead poverty that some of us feel that there's a real problem in perspective.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 6:49
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At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.


Ha. Outrage. You have no right to be outraged (bummed maybe). And given all the reasons listed before, if you're outraged, you're an indecent person.
OK, you woke me up. Where do you see the word "outrage" from me in the original post? The reply to Brewster was sarcasm, if you know what that is. I said it's "insulting" in the original to imply that long term residents, who have volunteered their time to make Downtown a better place to live, were motivated by a monetary gain. Nite.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:54
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brewster wrote:
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parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.


Ha. Outrage. You have no right to be outraged (bummed maybe). And given all the reasons listed before, if you're outraged, you're an indecent person.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:44
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parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.


You nailed it, on all fronts. If a reverse mortgage isn't your thing, think about this. If you sold your place for $1.5mm and rented a place in the same neighborhood for $3000 a month, you'd be able to pay that rent for roughly 41 years just off the proceeds of the sale (I didn't factor in broker fees etc).

I'm emphathetic to such a shock, but it's all been said before. You all knew it was coming. And you've all experienced many years of underpaying, subsidized by the poorer parts of JC. Nothing will change that at this point. And you don't have to leave your longtime home. Stop with the overreactions and get a plan together for next steps.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:43
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parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.
Let me take a nap due to my old age, and I'll answer you in the morning. The "under appreciated" have to recharge their outrage.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:40
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parkman wrote:
At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive.


I simply don't understand. Why would you leave your beloved home rather than part with a small fraction of your unexpected and apparently unwelcome gains? Because I'm pretty sure you're over 62, you can pay that 1.62% indefinitely via a reverse mortgage, the taxes paid will almost certainly be replenished by further appreciation.

This anger and sense of "underappreciation" by the oldest residents who have seen the most gains is really frustrating for those of us who will also see tax raises, but can see the big picture as well. Instead of realizing you got a gift of easily $100-200k from other parts of the city due to the long delay, many of you indulge this anger at the end of the party. It's unseemly.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 4:27
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.


Apparently what contributed to that burgeoning sense of community all along was local tax policy. Or should I say lack thereof. Until now.
I don’t know who Sutherland is, but his/hers acknowledgment of the individuals who bought during a time downtown, when parking your car on the street meant wondering if your car window was going to be intact the next morning, when we went through a reval in ’88 that saw taxes like mine and others, go from $1,800 a year to $12,200, and despite a devastated real estate market, stayed put to make this community what it is today; is appreciated, and you insult us by saying we contributed due to a tax policy we had no control over or was our motivation.

There are multiple community groups downtown that have volunteered their time over the last 30 years to make this a better place to live, not driven by a profit motive, but to better the neighborhood they choose to make their home. If you think paying $17,000 a year in current taxes for a defected school system (until very recently controlled by the state for lack of quality), a combined sewer system that floods our basements during each heavy rain, one of the highest water and tax rates in the county, had something to do with our “burgeoning sense of community”, you don’t know who we are.

At this point, where our taxes have been raised from that $17,000 level to $28,000 and up, it feels like we are being forced out our homes, where we never wanted to sell, and weren’t driven by a monetary motive. I hope that all the people on this site that think we have been “getting away with murder”, are ready to take over all the volunteer efforts given by these long-term residents.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 3:51
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Councilman Solomon talks tax appeal at the Van Vorst meeting, edited to 23 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DmFdd_Kl98

Posted on: 2018/2/22 3:37
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.


Apparently what contributed to that burgeoning sense of community all along was local tax policy. Or should I say lack thereof. Until now.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 2:20
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Does any one know if you go for the informal reval meeting with AIS, can they raise your taxes after looking at them?

Posted on: 2018/2/22 1:53
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Fair question. It's incredibly complicated, which is why there is so much misinformation around the subject.


Nicely done sir.

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Strawhat wrote:
Also the thousands of people who have moved in within the last few years and had kids will one day have to send them to a high school. Not sure how all these transplants are going to feel about Ferris.


An interesting point I've seen made is that the AEP programs and McNair actually damage the district schools greatly by skimming the most talented students out. I wonder what my suburban school would have been like if the top 60 out of my class of 600 had been pulled out to a magnet HS.

Posted on: 2018/2/22 1:06
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