135jc wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
Since Mexico does not want to pay for the wall what is their suggestion to keep their citizens within their own boundaries? Maybe they will want to reimburse the US for all the services the immigrants will receive here in the US curtosy of the taxpayer

Why is it Mexico's concern?

You don't think this is a black eye for Mexico? They want to be part of a global world and can't manage their own boarders?

K-Lo2 wrote:
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Quote: JCMan8 wrote: Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine. You can't be serious. I think most people, that aren't Israelis, would disagree with you.

Google Hamas Tunnels. Even Israelis would disagree.

Quote: JCMan8 wrote: Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine. You can't be serious. I think most people, that aren't Israelis, would disagree with you.

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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135jc wrote:
Since Mexico does not want to pay for the wall what is their suggestion to keep their citizens within their own boundaries? Maybe they will want to reimburse the US for all the services the immigrants will receive here in the US curtosy of the taxpayer

Why is it Mexico's concern?

Yvonne wrote:
Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent. Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population

Yvonne wrote:
Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent. Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population

JCMan8 wrote:
I think new jobs will be created due to the additional American manufacturing demand Trump will create.

Also, Trump's wall will create plenty of jobs. Both manufacturing (need to produce the material for the wall) and in the labor associated with the construction itself.

Regarding illegals and crime, I thought my article was pretty clear, and yours doesn't exactly contradict it. I do think what you just posted is the first worthwhile article you've cited. It examines a claim that illegals were 38% of all murder convictions in various states and concluded this was false.

JCMan8 wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Not to mention a 30ft wall only creates a market for 31ft ladders and rope. It's not like some magic force field. I personally don't understand the point of wasting all this money, especially when the majority of illegal immigrants have overstayed visa's and did not cross the border illegally.

I wonder how Trump will blame this on someone else when it blows up in his face.

Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine.

Plus, you act like it won't be patrolled. They'll have drones to patrol huge areas at once and can spot people trying to get over the wall. This will allow border security to arrest them.

Also, it's around a 50/50 split between illegals who sneak through the border and those who overstay their visas. Trump said he will aggressively target both problems.

Finally, just the wall is not enough, but it is needed regardless. As General Kelly said, now Director of National Security, the wall is necessary for border security but not sufficient.

If drones can patrol the border, why do they need a wall?

To make it much more difficult for them to get over. While I'm sure some still will try, and a fraction may make it over, far fewer will be able to. Is this a serious question?

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Not to mention a 30ft wall only creates a market for 31ft ladders and rope. It's not like some magic force field. I personally don't understand the point of wasting all this money, especially when the majority of illegal immigrants have overstayed visa's and did not cross the border illegally.

I wonder how Trump will blame this on someone else when it blows up in his face.

Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine.

Plus, you act like it won't be patrolled. They'll have drones to patrol huge areas at once and can spot people trying to get over the wall. This will allow border security to arrest them.

Also, it's around a 50/50 split between illegals who sneak through the border and those who overstay their visas. Trump said he will aggressively target both problems.

Finally, just the wall is not enough, but it is needed regardless. As General Kelly said, now Director of National Security, the wall is necessary for border security but not sufficient.

If drones can patrol the border, why do they need a wall?

135jc wrote:
Since Mexico does not want to pay for the wall what is their suggestion to keep their citizens within their own boundaries? Maybe they will want to reimburse the US for all the services the immigrants will receive here in the US curtosy of the taxpayer

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Not to mention a 30ft wall only creates a market for 31ft ladders and rope. It's not like some magic force field. I personally don't understand the point of wasting all this money, especially when the majority of illegal immigrants have overstayed visa's and did not cross the border illegally.

I wonder how Trump will blame this on someone else when it blows up in his face.

Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine.

Plus, you act like it won't be patrolled. They'll have drones to patrol huge areas at once and can spot people trying to get over the wall. This will allow border security to arrest them.

Also, it's around a 50/50 split between illegals who sneak through the border and those who overstay their visas. Trump said he will aggressively target both problems.

Finally, just the wall is not enough, but it is needed regardless. As General Kelly said, now Director of National Security, the wall is necessary for border security but not sufficient.

JCMan8 wrote:
Plenty of countries use walls for protection, such as Israel, and they work fine.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Not to mention a 30ft wall only creates a market for 31ft ladders and rope. It's not like some magic force field. I personally don't understand the point of wasting all this money, especially when the majority of illegal immigrants have overstayed visa's and did not cross the border illegally.

I wonder how Trump will blame this on someone else when it blows up in his face.

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
Is it also perfectly reasonable, good policy, and common sense that illegal immigrants should live in fear of reporting any crimes/abuse committed against them because "sanctuary cities" police forces would be required to report their immigration status to ICE or have their federal funding taken away as punishment?

Just playing Devil's advocate here.

135jc wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

We're going to build a wall and we're going to pay for it (twice)

You simply added 20% to the cost of each vehicle. Some calculation! There is a 60billion dollar trade surplus for Mexico indoing business with the US. They are not going to let that walk away. A compromise will be reached. Geeze!

brewster wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
It is ironic you accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when yours is atrocious. I repeatedly stated that less American workers will benefit from President Trump's policies (due to cuts associated with automation), but plenty will anyway.

You misread this as me making some claim that less US manufacturing jobs were added in recent years than in the past. Take a look in the mirror before spouting off.

And here is your quote which carries the dishonest implication that American workers won't benefit due to Trump's great idea to mandate that only American steel can be used on the pipeline:

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Brewster wrote:

You do realize most American steel today is made in highly automated micro mills, not the behemoths that made Pittsburgh. Speaking of automation, it's predicted the greatest beneficiary of his domestic production agenda will be Chinese robot factories selling US producers automation to replace workers.

In fact, plenty of American workers are still needed for manufacturing jobs and plenty will benefit. Go Trump!

If production increased 80% while employment dropped 33%, what makes you think any new jobs will be created at all? And I was speaking of his entire agenda, not just the pipes.

Your article is so full of meaningless terms and obvious BS it's hard to get through. "Criminal Alien"? And it cites statistics without definition, like is that per year, or what. It's psuedo-statistical mumbo jumbo.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/ ... l-immigrant-murder-stats/

JCMan8 wrote:
It is ironic you accuse me of having bad reading comprehension when yours is atrocious. I repeatedly stated that less American workers will benefit from President Trump's policies (due to cuts associated with automation), but plenty will anyway.

You misread this as me making some claim that less US manufacturing jobs were added in recent years than in the past. Take a look in the mirror before spouting off.

And here is your quote which carries the dishonest implication that American workers won't benefit due to Trump's great idea to mandate that only American steel can be used on the pipeline:

Quote:

Brewster wrote:

You do realize most American steel today is made in highly automated micro mills, not the behemoths that made Pittsburgh. Speaking of automation, it's predicted the greatest beneficiary of his domestic production agenda will be Chinese robot factories selling US producers automation to replace workers.

In fact, plenty of American workers are still needed for manufacturing jobs and plenty will benefit. Go Trump!

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
I hope everyone enjoys paying more for the same things.


"The presidential administration of Donald Trump came up with a brilliant idea to pay for the Mexican border wall yesterday. Instead of having Mexicans pay for the wall, he?d have Americans pay for the wall, through a 20 percent border tax on imported goods. And wouldn?t you know it, a lot of cars are imported from Mexico.

We?ve taken the liberty to calculate just how much those cars will cost you with their shiny new 20 percent price bump, thanks to the new president and his wall.

Call this a thought exercise. No one is sure how exactly the Trump administration could implement such a tax, whether it would be per each imported good or overall somehow. But let?s assume it?s the former, so we?re calculated a 20 percent increase from the current base price of every vehicle.

It should be noted that almost immediately after news broke of the potential border tax, White House officials walked back their remarks, saying that paying for the wall this way was just, well, it was just one of a lot of options, okay? Via the New York Times:

But a furious uproar prompted Mr. Spicer to temper his earlier remarks, saying the plan was simply ?one idea? that might work to finance the wall. Mr. Spicer said it was not the job of the White House to ?roll something out? on tax policy, while Mr. Trump?s chief of staff, Reince Priebus, said the administration was considering ?a buffet of options.?
Either way it?s going to be an expensive buffet for someone. We should say that this isn?t a direct tax on consumers, but that?s likely how it will end up, as corporations don?t like to absorb costs. They always pass the savings?and the increased expenses?on to you. Either way, Trump?s whole ?Mexico will pay for the wall? was clearly a complete lie, as now you, Americans, will pay for the wall.

We should also say that a likely scenario for many of these cars, if this tax comes to pass, is that they will cease being sold in the United States. They tend to be small cars, which are unpopular at the moment anyway given how cheap gas is, and thus with a low profit margin. If you think Ford will bother selling the Fiesta here at all if the price goes up 20 percent, forget it.

?Oh ho ho,? you say. ?But now the companies will just bring the manufacturing into the United States, and the price will magically stay cheap!? Not so fast. Even if that sort of scenario does come to pass, which it won?t, new manufacturing facilities take time to build anew or build out. That fantasy is years out, at best.

I?ve got nothing against the American worker or American jobs. Hell, we?re all American workers with American jobs. But if you want to buy American, or have the big beautiful wall, you?re going to have to pay for it.

(Please note! For some of these cars, not every example is built in Mexico. For example, not all Ram pickup trucks are made in Mexico, but the regular cab light-duty Rams are. Those are the ones we?ve based the pricing on.)"

Ford Fiesta
Old Price: $13,660
Mexican Wall Price: $16,392

Ford Fiesta ST
Old Price: $21,140
Mexican Wall Price: $25,368

Ford Fusion
Old Price: $22,120
Mexican Wall Price: $26,544

Lincoln MKZ
Old Price: $35,170
Mexican Wall Price: $42,204

Ram 1500
Old Price: $26,395
Mexican Wall Price: $31,674

Ram Heavy Duty
Old Price: $33,245
Mexican Wall Price: $39,894

Ram Promaster
Old Price: $27,935
Mexican Wall Price: $33,522

Toyota Yaris iA
Old Price: $15,950
Mexican Wall Price: $19,140

Toyota Tacoma (Double Cab)
Old Price: $24,950
Mexican Wall Price: $29,940

Mazda 3
Old Price: $17,845
Mexican Wall Price: $21,414

Jeep Compass
Old Price: $19,940
Mexican Wall Price: $23,928

Dodge Journey
Old Price: $21,145
Mexican Wall Price: $25,374

Fiat 500
Old Price: $14,995
Mexican Wall Price: $17,994

Fiat 500 Abarth
Old Price: $19,995
Mexican Wall Price: $23,994

Nissan Sentra
Old Price: $16,990
Mexican Wall Price: $20,388

Nissan Versa
Old Price: $11,990
Mexican Wall Price: $14,388

Nissan NV200
Old Price: $21,330
Mexican Wall Price: $25,596

Honda Fit
Old Price: $16,090
Mexican Wall Price: $19,308

Honda HR-V
Old Price: $19,465
Mexican Wall Price: $23,358

Honda CR-V
Old Price: $24,045
Mexican Wall Price: $28,854

Volkswagen Jetta
Old Price: $17,895
Mexican Wall Price: $21,474

Volkswagen Golf
Old Price: $19,895
Mexican Wall Price: $23,874

Volkswagen Beetle
Old Price: $19,995
Mexican Wall Price: $23,874

Volkswagen GTI
Old Price: $25,595
Mexican Wall Price: $30,714

We're going to build a wall and we're going to pay for it (twice)

Azul_the_Cat wrote:
That's all well and good but Obama is not our President anymore. We're there major issues with a lot of what any politician does vs. what he can actually accomplish? Of course there is.

Now Trump is in the White House, in he is not exactly making a steps towards building a good relationship with our nearest neighbor, key ally, and 3rd largest supplier of goods for our country.

Can Trump try and fix the problems of past President's? Sure he can try. You give Obama a hard time about blaming Bush Jr., but you're doing the same thing with Obama.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Trump is a master manipulator with very situational ethics. He played this country like a fiddle. Now the people that were to naive to see through the BS are regretting their votes. I once heard Trump described this way, "He may not be the smartest guy in the room, but no one knows is smarter than he is when it comes to playing on the fears of people in this country."

His campaign consisted of basically 3 things.
1. Lock HRC up for her emails.
2. I'm gonna get all the jobs here in the USA.
3. Here is someone to blame for all your problems and fears in the world.